'TD' Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Well, then you shouldnt worry about him calling plays then, considering that he is going to be the defensive line coach, and not the defensive coordinator right, he didnt draft any of that talent. That was all Dungy and Kiffin. I have nothing wrong with him being a defensive line coach. It's the possibility of him as a DC which some here have mentioned that I do not like or making room for his family so he will come here. JA didn't draft anyone in TB, he was a scout. I wouldn't mind JA as a defensive scout , but so far I would consider him a failure at GM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I have nothing wrong with him being a defensive line coach. It's the possibility of him as a DC which some here have mentioned that I do not like or making room for his family so he will come here. JA didn't draft anyone in TB, he was a scout. I wouldn't mind JA as a defensive scout , but so far I would consider him a failure at GM. You mean director of player personnel? He had plenty of control in who was on that team. And considering the Jauron years that he had inherited(minus the 13-3), a 62-55 record as a GM isnt too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 You mean director of player personnel? He had plenty of control in who was on that team. And considering the Jauron years that he had inherited(minus the 13-3), a 62-55 record as a GM isnt too bad. Look at the team now 7 years into his being here. Can you honestly say that this team is as good as what he inherited from Hatley in 2001? The Offense is a wreck. Other then TE and RB, it needs a player at every position. He just now realized that QB is the most position on the team. This is a guy that brought in players like Kordell Stewart and Chris Chandler, then passing on guys like Brees and turning away Warner because he wouldn't let him compete for starter. This group of WR's doesn't have a single number 2, yet alone 1. The offensive line all needs replacements here other then maybe Williams who was drafted with a chronic back injury. Kreutz, he inherited, might not need replaced but needs his replacement in training here. Defensively, while more talented then the O, it has many holes that need filled. He continually tries to find safties but the only real one he has on the team is Brown. CB's, while full of Depth, still questionable at it's starters. Not to mention a wasted 3rd round pick on Manning Jr. a couple years ago and bringing in a guy like Archueletta with a big paycheck. Briggs was a major hit at LB, inherited Urlacher, average talent other at LB. Plus, wasted picks in Okwo and Williams. The Defensiveline has been under productive. Ogun never lived up to the billing, there's an overhyped but quality player in harris, brown is good but not a special talent and not much else there but really good backups. Yes, I think he has had a below average record at bringing in talent, especially on the offensive side, at times neglecting key positions. Defensively he's had one find that was remarkable in Briggs and the rest of his track record is average or below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 tidbits: Since Marinelli joined DET, here's what the team did to help out his Tampa-2 D through the draft. 2008 1 1 17 17 Gosder Cherilus T Boston College 2 2 14 45 Jordon Dizon LB Colorado 3 3 1 64 Kevin Smith RB Central Florida 4 3 24 87 Andre Fluellen DT Florida State 5 3 29 92 Cliff Avril DE Purdue 6 5 1 136 Kenneth Moore WR Wake Forest 7 5 11 146 Jerome Felton RB Furman 8 7 9 216 Landon Cohen DT Ohio 9 7 11 218 Caleb Campbell DB Army 2007 1 1 2 2 Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech 2 2 11 43 Drew Stanton QB Michigan State 3 2 26 58 Ikaika Alama-Francis DE Hawaii 4 2 29 61 Gerald Alexander DB Boise State 5 4 6 105 A.J. Davis DB North Carolina State 6 4 18 117 Manuel Ramirez G Texas Tech 7 5 21 158 Johnny Baldwin LB Alabama A&M 8 7 45 255 Ramzee Robinson DB Alabama 2006 1 1 9 9 Ernie Sims LB Florida State 2 2 8 40 Daniel Bullocks DB Nebraska 3 3 10 74 Brian Calhoun RB Wisconsin 4 5 8 141 Jonathan Scott T Texas 5 6 10 179 Alton (Dee) McCann DB West Virginia 6 7 9 217 Fred Matua G USC 7 7 39 247 Anthony Cannon LB Tulane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 I would have no issues with adding Marinelli as the D Line Coach/Asst Head Coach and Barry as the LB Coach. Both have successful previous experience in those positions. This would be light yrs better than Lovie's previous policy of bringing in college coaches to teach the players (i.e. coaches with no prior NFL experience). Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Look at the team now 7 years into his being here. Can you honestly say that this team is as good as what he inherited from Hatley in 2001? The Offense is a wreck. Other then TE and RB, it needs a player at every position. He just now realized that QB is the most position on the team. This is a guy that brought in players like Kordell Stewart and Chris Chandler, then passing on guys like Brees and turning away Warner because he wouldn't let him compete for starter. This group of WR's doesn't have a single number 2, yet alone 1. The offensive line all needs replacements here other then maybe Williams who was drafted with a chronic back injury. Kreutz, he inherited, might not need replaced but needs his replacement in training here. Defensively, while more talented then the O, it has many holes that need filled. He continually tries to find safties but the only real one he has on the team is Brown. CB's, while full of Depth, still questionable at it's starters. Not to mention a wasted 3rd round pick on Manning Jr. a couple years ago and bringing in a guy like Archueletta with a big paycheck. Briggs was a major hit at LB, inherited Urlacher, average talent other at LB. Plus, wasted picks in Okwo and Williams. The Defensiveline has been under productive. Ogun never lived up to the billing, there's an overhyped but quality player in harris, brown is good but not a special talent and not much else there but really good backups. Yes, I think he has had a below average record at bringing in talent, especially on the offensive side, at times neglecting key positions. Defensively he's had one find that was remarkable in Briggs and the rest of his track record is average or below. Are you kidding me? The 2001 team was a MIRAGE. Since Angelo ousted Jauron and everything that Jauron did, his teams have gone 1st twice(once to the superbowl) , 2nd, and 4th place. You want to talk about what Hatley did? Lets read this quote from the article regarding his termination: When Hatley arrived in May 1997, he inherited a team that had had two consecutive losing seasons and was full of holes. The Bears have gone 4-12, 6-10 and 5-11 since. Oh yeah, Mark Hatley really left the cupboard full. What happened in those two years after the 13-3 season? Oh yeah. 4-12 and 7-9. And dont talk about Kordell Stewart and Chris Chandler unless you want to bring up some gems that Hatley provided us with like Curtis Enis and Cade McNown. All Angelo did was get Briggs? Not draft Alex Brown,and Tommie Harris? he didnt trade for Ogunleye? you go ahead and discount those three players, they were only a big part of one of the best defenses in the league two and three years ago. i'll give you archuleta, but then you gotta remember the good things Manning Jr did before he got ran out of town. how about taking a flyer on that guy that 2 organizations gave up on, what was his name again..... oh yeah Thomas Jones. Oh but he was just OK getting 1000 yards every year and being one of the most complete backs the bears have had in the last 20 years. I agree the Wide reciever situation has gotten out of control, but number one WRs dont grow on trees. Me and you could sit here for days listing this player that excelled and that player that failed, but you know what? It happens with every organization. Its called parity, the NFL encourages it, and free agency and non-gauranteed contracts pretty much guarantee it. No matter what you think of Angelo and the Bears, the Organization as a whole has been on the upswing since he took over. It may have peaked in 05-06, but they still have competed and this last year showed a marked improvement over the prior team despite everyone predicting doom and gloom and practically rooting for them to fail for that glorious high first round pick. Lets face it, pretty much every team has holes to fill year in and year out, and it isnt as easy as "sign this guy" or "hire this coach" or "lets switch to the 3-4 because the cover-2 isnt working". Its balancing money, priorities, player strengths, etc. Nobody wants to give Angelo credit for the good he has done and everyone wants results now. Well tough shit, sometimes results develop, they dont just appear. And Brees never got to Chicago to talk to Angelo. he went one place, New Orleans, and signed a contract immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 If JA really wanted him, he would have sent a red carpet out for him. I don't buy that in the least... It's apparent we didn't want him or at least didn't want to pay for him. And Brees never got to Chicago to talk to Angelo. he went one place, New Orleans, and signed a contract immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Everyone's been harping on Barry, and I know only his faults in DET...do you know his background? I would have no issues with adding Marinelli as the D Line Coach/Asst Head Coach and Barry as the LB Coach. Both have successful previous experience in those positions. This would be light yrs better than Lovie's previous policy of bringing in college coaches to teach the players (i.e. coaches with no prior NFL experience). Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 If JA really wanted him, he would have sent a red carpet out for him. I don't buy that in the least... It's apparent we didn't want him or at least didn't want to pay for him. You are not understanding. Brees went to New Orleans and signed on the dotted line, right there. Sean Payton and the NO staff blew him away and that was it. The red carpet wasnt going to stretch to New Orleans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 No Kyle, you are not understanding. If we REALLY wanted him, he never would have made it to New Orleans... Where there is a will, there is a way. You are not understanding. Brees went to New Orleans and signed on the dotted line, right there. Sean Payton and the NO staff blew him away and that was it. The red carpet wasnt going to stretch to New Orleans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Everyone's been harping on Barry, and I know only his faults in DET...do you know his background? He was DC in Detroit; LB coach in Tampa. Here is some info. http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id...=2&season=0 Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 No Kyle, you are not understanding. If we REALLY wanted him, he never would have made it to New Orleans... Where there is a will, there is a way. Oh yes, I forgot. If we back up the truck to anyone and drop money, it works. Silly me. Apparently the bears front office is able to reschedule free agent visits for any player at any time. face it, the guy saw a situation where he was going to thrive and jumped on it. No other team in the NFL had a chance, Brees wanted to be a saint. This fantasy situation that you are somehow hanging on the bears is ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GakMan23 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Oh yes, I forgot. If we back up the truck to anyone and drop money, it works. Silly me. Apparently the bears front office is able to reschedule free agent visits for any player at any time. face it, the guy saw a situation where he was going to thrive and jumped on it. No other team in the NFL had a chance, Brees wanted to be a saint. This fantasy situation that you are somehow hanging on the bears is ridiculous Actually there were only 2 teams that showed any serious interest in Brees and those teams were the Saints AND Dolphins. BOTH teams had contacted him but Miami decided to go with Culpepper and Brees went, interviewed, then signed with the Saints. If the Bears had put any serious interest in him I am sure he may have listened before making his decision. http://www.contracostatimes.com/raiders/ci_10700590 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Actually there were only 2 teams that showed any serious interest in Brees and those teams were the Saints AND Dolphins. BOTH teams had contacted him but Miami decided to go with Culpepper and Brees went, interviewed, then signed with the Saints. If the Bears had put any serious interest in him I am sure he may have listened before making his decision. http://www.contracostatimes.com/raiders/ci_10700590 When the Bears faced off against the Saints in the playoffs, there was a pre-game show segment that talked about Brees resurrection from a bad shoulder injury and he discussed what happened with his "courtship". Brees himself said that his first visit was to the Saints and the entire organization blew him away, he cancelled all of his visits and signed on the dotted line. Miami tried to get Brees to take less money, but Brees signed before he left the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 It usually does. It's called reality. $ talks. BS walks. Throw enough moeny at any player, and odds are they'll play for the Lions. Again, if we really wanted Brees, hints and winks would have been given to his agent prior to his non-refundable flight to New Orleans... And the Bears would have picked up the tab. Bottom line, the Bears weren't interested because we had the Wonder Boy, Rex... If any team really wanted Brees, they would have gotten him, just like NO did. Miami had interest, but apparently not as much as NO. You think his agent didn't get some vibe from conversations from Miami's and NO's offices on what their desires were? Sure, he did jump on it, but it was also probably that his agent had some knowledge of what other teams' interests in him were. It's not like he went in with blinders only listening to NO. how do you know no other tema had a chance? Did you speak to all 31 other GM's? Look, I'm not saying it's some fantasy situation. I'm talking reality. If management REALLy wanted him, they would have gotten him. NO wanted him more than anyone else. The only thing I am hanging on the Bears is their apparent lack of interest while pampering Rex... Oh yes, I forgot. If we back up the truck to anyone and drop money, it works. Silly me. Apparently the bears front office is able to reschedule free agent visits for any player at any time. face it, the guy saw a situation where he was going to thrive and jumped on it. No other team in the NFL had a chance, Brees wanted to be a saint. This fantasy situation that you are somehow hanging on the bears is ridiculous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thank you GakMan! Actually there were only 2 teams that showed any serious interest in Brees and those teams were the Saints AND Dolphins. BOTH teams had contacted him but Miami decided to go with Culpepper and Brees went, interviewed, then signed with the Saints. If the Bears had put any serious interest in him I am sure he may have listened before making his decision. http://www.contracostatimes.com/raiders/ci_10700590 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 It's called PR... Makes him and his current team look good regardless of what actually went down. You believe everything a player says? Also, cancelling visits does not mean talks didn't happen. I've contacted many an interested employer and after getting a better vibe on what their salary, benefits, environment was over the phone, I've cancelled interviews. Sometimes you don't need to hear it in person... When the Bears faced off against the Saints in the playoffs, there was a pre-game show segment that talked about Brees resurrection from a bad shoulder injury and he discussed what happened with his "courtship". Brees himself said that his first visit was to the Saints and the entire organization blew him away, he cancelled all of his visits and signed on the dotted line. Miami tried to get Brees to take less money, but Brees signed before he left the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thanks! Knowing is half the battle! He was DC in Detroit; LB coach in Tampa. Here is some info. http://www.detroitlions.com/bio.cfm?bio_id...=2&season=0 Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 It's called PR... Makes him and his current team look good regardless of what actually went down. You believe everything a player says? Also, cancelling visits does not mean talks didn't happen. I've contacted many an interested employer and after getting a better vibe on what their salary, benefits, environment was over the phone, I've cancelled interviews. Sometimes you don't need to hear it in person... Do you actually believe the bullshit you are saying about how the Bears could have had him? Are you saying I shouldnt believe Brees, even though he actually went and signed with the Saints? Go ahead with your fantasy situations, Im done arguing with you Dont compare your work search with an NFL free agent visit, its apples to skyscrapers. Or maybe oranges to volvos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Apparently you aren't done arguing with me... But regardless, feel free not to listen to reason and logic. The point is seriously moot anyway. Brees isn't with us. But to answer you questions... 1. I stand by my opinion that that Bears could have had him...if they wanted him. I have stated this over and over, yet you don't seem to understand how business works. If you throw enough money at something, odds are it will be taken. Again, I have stated before that NO was the team that really wanted him, and he acted accordingly. It's not like he was waiting for the Bears to call. Miami did, and he liked what NO offered more. 2. You can believe anything you want. Brees is telling half truths I believe. Sure, NO wowed him and he signed immediately. But, I don't for one minute, think that Miami had made some semblance of an offer to his agent before his visit to NO. Brees isn't lying. He's just moitting to say that he also heard Miami's paltry offer and liked what NO had. You are speculating that it was all NO or bust, and no other team on earth had a chance. I don't buy that for one bit. Any team that was (again...) TRULY interested would have had a legit shot at him. Applying for a job is applying for a job. The dollar amount is different, but not the basics... Do you actually believe the bullshit you are saying about how the Bears could have had him? Are you saying I shouldnt believe Brees, even though he actually went and signed with the Saints? Go ahead with your fantasy situations, Im done arguing with you Dont compare your work search with an NFL free agent visit, its apples to skyscrapers. Or maybe oranges to volvos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyyle23 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Apparently you aren't done arguing with me... But regardless, feel free not to listen to reason and logic. The point is seriously moot anyway. Brees isn't with us. But to answer you questions... 1. I stand by my opinion that that Bears could have had him...if they wanted him. I have stated this over and over, yet you don't seem to understand how business works. If you throw enough money at something, odds are it will be taken. Again, I have stated before that NO was the team that really wanted him, and he acted accordingly. It's not like he was waiting for the Bears to call. Miami did, and he liked what NO offered more. 2. You can believe anything you want. Brees is telling half truths I believe. Sure, NO wowed him and he signed immediately. But, I don't for one minute, think that Miami had made some semblance of an offer to his agent before his visit to NO. Brees isn't lying. He's just moitting to say that he also heard Miami's paltry offer and liked what NO had. You are speculating that it was all NO or bust, and no other team on earth had a chance. I don't buy that for one bit. Any team that was (again...) TRULY interested would have had a legit shot at him. Applying for a job is applying for a job. The dollar amount is different, but not the basics... No, this argument is done. You can continue with your alternate reality by yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Just for a bit of support, count me on your side for this one. First, in general. (a) Agreed that money talks. How many times have we seen a player forget everything said about what he wants in a new team, only to sign w/ whoever offers the best deal. ( After a player signs, what is he going to say other than to praise the team that signed him. How often do you see a player say, "well, I didn't get much interest from other teams, so I just went ahead and signed w/ the only one that showed my any level of legit interest". Yea, that would go over w/ his current team and fans well. Second, more specific. (a) Lets look back at our team's history. We are the team that put all our eggs in Rex' basket. It is well documented that Warner didn't come to Chicago because he wanted an opportunity to compete, but the team told him he would be strictly a backup. We signed Griese, but didn't give him a chance to compete, and put all our faith in Rex. We drafted Rex, and were going to give him every chance in the world to make it. Does anyone believe we ever showed serious interest in Brees? ( It was fairly well documented then that, while Brees was the hot ticket FA QB, interest was simply not as high as you would think. When Brees hit FA, there were numerous questions about him, like: Injury, how much of his sucess was system related, and how much of his sucess had to do w/ SD having an elite OL, RB and TE. Fans look back and wonder how Brees didn't have half the league going after him, but when he was in FA, it was far more of a debated issue. I remember the bears boards back then, and even w/ bear fans, going after Brees was a hot topic. I don't think the majority of fans were even for the move, much less passionate enough to make a major run at him. There were supporters, but it was far from certain by all. Many fans then, like the staff, still believe Rex had the potential to be great, while Brees was little more than a good QB. © As I recall, Miami and NO were the only two teams to make "serious" runs at Brees. As you said, much of this is done behind the scenes through his agent speaking w/ teams. I believe he went to NO knowing he had two teams w/ serious interest, and after the NO interview, simply made a quick decision between the two teams. I do not doubt NO blew him away, but at the same time, I also have no doubt that if more teams had shown (behind the scenes) major interest, he would have left NO and moved on to see what other team was ready to blow him away. Simply put, at the time, our staff (GM and coach) still had faith we had our own, internal, franchise QB in Rex. Evidence of this was our adding Griese in FA, and not even allowing him to compete for the starting job. We flat out handed the job to Rex. IMHO, this best shows the mind set of the team at the time Brees was a FA, and thus provides evidence that we were never serious, and maybe not even interested, in adding a QB like Brees, who would only come to Chicago if guaranteed the starting job. We were not even looking to add competition for Rex, much less flat out replace him. So I agree we absolutely could have had a very real shot of adding brees. But we didn't have the interest, and NO did. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 All of this is conjecture. Brees is in NO. He is not here. Further, we are 3-0 against him. We went to the SB, they did not. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thank you nfo! You've said, more eloquently, what I've been trying to say bluntly! Just for a bit of support, count me on your side for this one. First, in general. (a) Agreed that money talks. How many times have we seen a player forget everything said about what he wants in a new team, only to sign w/ whoever offers the best deal. ( After a player signs, what is he going to say other than to praise the team that signed him. How often do you see a player say, "well, I didn't get much interest from other teams, so I just went ahead and signed w/ the only one that showed my any level of legit interest". Yea, that would go over w/ his current team and fans well. Second, more specific. (a) Lets look back at our team's history. We are the team that put all our eggs in Rex' basket. It is well documented that Warner didn't come to Chicago because he wanted an opportunity to compete, but the team told him he would be strictly a backup. We signed Griese, but didn't give him a chance to compete, and put all our faith in Rex. We drafted Rex, and were going to give him every chance in the world to make it. Does anyone believe we ever showed serious interest in Brees? ( It was fairly well documented then that, while Brees was the hot ticket FA QB, interest was simply not as high as you would think. When Brees hit FA, there were numerous questions about him, like: Injury, how much of his sucess was system related, and how much of his sucess had to do w/ SD having an elite OL, RB and TE. Fans look back and wonder how Brees didn't have half the league going after him, but when he was in FA, it was far more of a debated issue. I remember the bears boards back then, and even w/ bear fans, going after Brees was a hot topic. I don't think the majority of fans were even for the move, much less passionate enough to make a major run at him. There were supporters, but it was far from certain by all. Many fans then, like the staff, still believe Rex had the potential to be great, while Brees was little more than a good QB. © As I recall, Miami and NO were the only two teams to make "serious" runs at Brees. As you said, much of this is done behind the scenes through his agent speaking w/ teams. I believe he went to NO knowing he had two teams w/ serious interest, and after the NO interview, simply made a quick decision between the two teams. I do not doubt NO blew him away, but at the same time, I also have no doubt that if more teams had shown (behind the scenes) major interest, he would have left NO and moved on to see what other team was ready to blow him away. Simply put, at the time, our staff (GM and coach) still had faith we had our own, internal, franchise QB in Rex. Evidence of this was our adding Griese in FA, and not even allowing him to compete for the starting job. We flat out handed the job to Rex. IMHO, this best shows the mind set of the team at the time Brees was a FA, and thus provides evidence that we were never serious, and maybe not even interested, in adding a QB like Brees, who would only come to Chicago if guaranteed the starting job. We were not even looking to add competition for Rex, much less flat out replace him. So I agree we absolutely could have had a very real shot of adding brees. But we didn't have the interest, and NO did. End of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Agreed. I'm done flogging a dead horse. Please see nfo's comments if you choose to continue not to see logic. No, this argument is done. You can continue with your alternate reality by yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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