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Which QB retread do you want?


bradjock

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There's lots of bellowing about fixing the quarterback position. What bugs the hell out of me is that it's easy as hell to say, but not easy to fix. At LEAST 2/3's of the teams in the NFL are unhappy with their quarterback situation. (If not more) and the teams who are happy sure as hell ain't giving them up. How many teams would like to have Kyle Orton? At least two teams in our division would.

 

For the sake of argument, I'm going to take Angelo at his word that he wants to solidify the QB situation. To me that means no old quarterbacks who'll be done in a year or two. So that would exclude Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, and Jeff Garcia.

 

According to this list, those are the top guys available after Casell:

http://profootball.scout.com/2/804428.html

 

McNabb's not going to be available, and the Jets proved that going after a one year quarterback is not a good thing.

 

So if we're going to bring in true competition for Orton, who's it going to be? I'm leaving out rookies because I would assume we'd want to give them a year to develop. That's not a definite, but with the exception or Forte, Lovie's never been anxious about playing rookies.

 

So IMO, if we're truly bringing in competition, we're looking for a guy with experience who can compete or even win the job, without spending a ton of dough. From a realistic point of view (IMO) this is pretty much the guys were chosing from:

Chris Simms

Byron Leftwhich

J.P. Lossman

Derrick Anderson (If available)

Kyle Boller

Luke McNown

David Carr

 

There's more bad quarterbacks out there. I'm just curious as to what 2nd tier "retread" you think would interest the Bears.

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If I have to choose between the guys on the list...

 

Derrick Anderson (If available)

Byron Leftwich

David Carr

Chris Simms

J.P. Lossman

Kyle Boller

Luke McNown

 

But that's like choosing to being kicked in the balls and punched in the balls. Leftwich might get crippled behind the Bears' OL. David Carr would have Texas flashbacks and instinctively curl into the fetal position. Simms is flaky to begin with. JP Losman is inconsistent, but interesting. Boller is boring, and the Bears already have a similar QB in Orton. Luke McNown - Meh.

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Of that list I'll take Alex Smith. Ok so he isn't on the list but what the heck I think he's an option I just don't know what Singletary is going to do in San Fran but I suspect after all he's been through Smith would love to get out of there. I'm not necessarily an Alex Smith fan but I'm not a big fan of anyone on the list above, I just think when we consider getting a veteran QB he should be in the discussion. I don't care that Mike Martz kicked him to the curb, Martz can be a QB killer with his system and demands. I'm curious to hear everyone's thoughts on if he's even worth a look.

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If I have to choose between the guys on the list...

 

Derrick Anderson (If available)

Byron Leftwich

David Carr

Chris Simms

J.P. Lossman

Kyle Boller

Luke McNown

 

But that's like choosing to being kicked in the balls and punched in the balls. Leftwich might get crippled behind the Bears' OL. David Carr would have Texas flashbacks and instinctively curl into the fetal position. Simms is flaky to begin with. JP Losman is inconsistent, but interesting. Boller is boring, and the Bears already have a similar QB in Orton. Luke McNown - Meh.

 

The same guy who was benched, then forced back to starter because of Quinns injury, only to blow out his own knee? yuck.

 

That list is hideous. I hate to say it, but Orton is a much better fit than any of those guys at this point

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I hear ya... It's like saying which WR would you rather have...Davis or Booker?

 

Anderson offers the only real potential I think...albeit very small.

 

I say draft...

 

If I have to choose between the guys on the list...

 

Derrick Anderson (If available)

Byron Leftwich

David Carr

Chris Simms

J.P. Lossman

Kyle Boller

Luke McNown

 

But that's like choosing to being kicked in the balls and punched in the balls. Leftwich might get crippled behind the Bears' OL. David Carr would have Texas flashbacks and instinctively curl into the fetal position. Simms is flaky to begin with. JP Losman is inconsistent, but interesting. Boller is boring, and the Bears already have a similar QB in Orton. Luke McNown - Meh.

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For a list of QB'S to pick from....is that the best you can do? LOL

 

Here's a more expanded list that came from the Sun Times. I condensed it since most of the guys on it are much worse then Rex Grossman. It's pretty damn ugly who's available. I'm sure there will be other players like Alex Smith . . .

 

Charlie Batch, Pittsburgh Steelers

Kyle Boller, Baltimore Ravens

Brooks Bollinger, Dallas Cowboys

Todd Bouman, Baltimore Ravens

David Carr, New York Giants

Matt Cassel, New England Patriots

Kerry Collins, Tennessee Titans

Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cincinnati Bengals

Charlie Frye, Seattle Seahawks

Jeff Garcia, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Rex Grossman, Bears

Gibran Hamdan, Buffalo Bills

Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints

Byron Leftwich, Pittsburgh Steelers

J.P. Losman, Buffalo Bills

Jamie Martin, San Francisco 49ers

Luke McCown, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Dan Orlovsky, Detroit Lions

J.T. O'Sullivan, San Francisco 49ers

Patrick Ramsey, Denver Broncos

Chris Simms, Tennessee Titans

Brian St. Pierre, Arizona Cardinals

Marques Tuaisosopo, Oakland Raiders

Kurt Warner, Arizona Cardinals

Anthony Wright, New York Giants

 

Restricted free agent

 

Jeff Otis, Oakland Raiders

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First, while I understand you said, "for the sake of argument" but I disagree that older QBs are not possible, even factoring Angelo's comments. Just because he finally wants to stress the QB position, that doesn't mean he absolutely believes that he will find our long term answer this year in FA. He may be looking at a plan where he gets a veteran he believes is an upgrade now, while drafting a QB to develop and replace the veteran. Frankly, when I look at the list you provide, I think this makes even more sense, and none seem to be serious upgrades to Orton.

 

Anyway, looking at your list,

 

Chris Simms - HELL NO! I said this many times before, but I want no part of Simms. First, is there not enough evidence how mentally soft Texas players are? I don't want another mentally soft QB. To me, Simms is Grossman. Even going back to college, Oklahoma showed how Rex, er, I mean Simms, would crumble under pressure. Simms did so well at Texas overall because w/ that OL and offense, Oklahoma was about the only D that actually could pressure him, but that isn't the case in the NFL. When pressured, Simms folds.

 

Byron Leftwhich - Leftwhich is a QB who may do well if behind a solid OL, but we don't have one, and if we did, I think Orton could do just as well.

 

J.P. Lossman - This to me is actually an interesting choice. He didn't workout for Buffalo, but did at times show very solid promise. Loseman is a player who I question if his style ever matched his coaching. But I also think he will be among the more targetted young QBs in this FA class. Not to say he will cost a ton, but I think interest in him will be higher than in most.

 

Derrick Anderson (If available) - One year wonder? Stats would sure seem to indicate that. Not a horrible addition for cheap, but would not represent a real upgrade.

 

Kyle Boller - Never been a fan to be honest. He had plenty of chances for a team w/ a better OL and weapons than we have, not to mention coaching and defense, and could not get it done.

 

Luke McNown - Backup quality at best IMHO.

 

David Carr - Honestly, he always intrigued me. I always that it was a joke, and many Houston fans did to, that they invested to heavily in a "believed" franchise QB, but did so little to build an OL in front of him. I always felt he had the talent, BUT (a) he has failed to showcase that talent for several teams since Houston and (B) if OL was the issue in Houston, I question how much better he would look for us, w/ our OL.

 

The group of FAs is simply ugly, which really makes the timing of Angelo's statements questionable. More and more, if we are going to make QB a priority, the draft seems the way to go IMHO. Frankly, w/ Orton signed for another year, it would make sense. Orton plays this year while a rookie gets his feet wet w/o the pressure. Any QB we draft will not be a major investment, due to not having a very high pick, thus if Orton did establish himself, it isn't like we would have killed ourselves capwise. On the other hand, if Orton doesn't improve, we will have a young QB to turn to.

 

There's lots of bellowing about fixing the quarterback position. What bugs the hell out of me is that it's easy as hell to say, but not easy to fix. At LEAST 2/3's of the teams in the NFL are unhappy with their quarterback situation. (If not more) and the teams who are happy sure as hell ain't giving them up. How many teams would like to have Kyle Orton? At least two teams in our division would.

 

For the sake of argument, I'm going to take Angelo at his word that he wants to solidify the QB situation. To me that means no old quarterbacks who'll be done in a year or two. So that would exclude Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, and Jeff Garcia.

 

According to this list, those are the top guys available after Casell:

http://profootball.scout.com/2/804428.html

 

McNabb's not going to be available, and the Jets proved that going after a one year quarterback is not a good thing.

 

So if we're going to bring in true competition for Orton, who's it going to be? I'm leaving out rookies because I would assume we'd want to give them a year to develop. That's not a definite, but with the exception or Forte, Lovie's never been anxious about playing rookies.

 

So IMO, if we're truly bringing in competition, we're looking for a guy with experience who can compete or even win the job, without spending a ton of dough. From a realistic point of view (IMO) this is pretty much the guys were chosing from:

Chris Simms

Byron Leftwhich

J.P. Lossman

Derrick Anderson (If available)

Kyle Boller

Luke McNown

David Carr

 

There's more bad quarterbacks out there. I'm just curious as to what 2nd tier "retread" you think would interest the Bears.

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For me either David Carr or Jeff Garcia.

 

Carr has the tools but he just never had the line to go with those tools and he can throw the ball. Garcia can throw but he can also make things happen with his legs. We should have signed him before he went to Detroit.

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I might be in the minority here, but I don't think that we need a vet QB. I think Orton was good enough and he has some more upside than any other option out there. In my eyes he showed enough to be the long term QB. What the best thing we can do for ourselves is get a REAL WR. TJ Housh or Antonio Bryant would factor in nicely. We need a Number 1 WR. We have 6 #3 WR's on our team. What we need to do is get Housh or Antonio and give Orton some real weapons and we'll be in business. If I had my way I would have this lineup: QB-Orton RB-Forte WR1-Housh WR2-Lloyd/Hester WR3-Bennett/Hester TE1-Olsen TE2-Clark. Get rid of Booker and Davis, resign Lloyd and we'll have some real weapons. Teams will have a tough time defending this offense. They can't key on Hester, Forte, Housh and Olsen. Adding that legit #1 Reciver opens the door to a better offense. Orton was not the problem, it's the weapons around him. Last season we were a 1 trick pony overusing Forte. Get a legit WR and I guarantee success. :bringit

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I might be in the minority here, but I don't think that we need a vet QB. I think Orton was good enough and he has some more upside than any other option out there. In my eyes he showed enough to be the long term QB. What the best thing we can do for ourselves is get a REAL WR. TJ Housh or Antonio Bryant would factor in nicely. We need a Number 1 WR. We have 6 #3 WR's on our team. What we need to do is get Housh or Antonio and give Orton some real weapons and we'll be in business. If I had my way I would have this lineup: QB-Orton RB-Forte WR1-Housh WR2-Lloyd/Hester WR3-Bennett/Hester TE1-Olsen TE2-Clark. Get rid of Booker and Davis, resign Lloyd and we'll have some real weapons. Teams will have a tough time defending this offense. They can't key on Hester, Forte, Housh and Olsen. Adding that legit #1 Reciver opens the door to a better offense. Orton was not the problem, it's the weapons around him. Last season we were a 1 trick pony overusing Forte. Get a legit WR and I guarantee success. :bringit

That means you're okay with Hanie being the no. 2? I like Hanie, but I don't think he's ready for the big time just yet. And I'm not sure who we should bring in as the no. 2, but we do need, IMdO, a guy at no.2 that can be serviceable.

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That means you're okay with Hanie being the no. 2? I like Hanie, but I don't think he's ready for the big time just yet. And I'm not sure who we should bring in as the no. 2, but we do need, IMdO, a guy at no.2 that can be serviceable.

 

 

Haha, I was rambling about the WR's and never said what we should do about the QB situation. I say we either draft a QB on day 1 of the draft (anyone but Tebow. Harrell would be my choice in the 2nd round if he lasts that long) or if we are really set on getting a vet, Alex Smith makes the most sense to me. If Angelo really isn't sold on Orton we need someone who could be a long term replacement. Smith I believe has more in him than what he did in San Fran. When he was under Norv Turner (offensive coordinator) he looked pretty strong. But then they switched the coordinator on him again. I believe that he had 4 offensive coordinators in his term in SF. But you're right that we do need a servicable #2. Hanie has upside, but not sure if he's ready for #2 yet. Haven't seen enough of him to make that judgement.

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Apparently Harrell's stock is actually lower than I thought. He might even be had in the 3-4th round. I think that's great value. I know he was in a offense friendly system, but I think he has the tools to become a good QB. And I also think that we have other needs in the 1st and 2nd round like the O and D Lines and safety.

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Maybe an older QB is not out of the question, I think it's highly unlikely. During his state of the union speech, Angelo commented that yes, older quarterbacks did have some success, but he seemed to reiterate the importance of solidifying the position for years to come. Maybe that's just me reading to much into it. Yet, I can't help but wonder, what older free agent QB would we really be interested in? Kerry Collins & Kurt Warner's value are over-inflated due their success. Collins has been a game manager, which doesn't make him much different then Orton, and Warner's much better in a dome. Jeff Garcia's 39 and was briefly benched in favor of Brian Griese.

 

You mention the draft being the way to go, and I can't argue with that, except that it's important to remember that rookie quarterbacks and generally worthless. Sure Ryan & Flacco may cause teams to buck the trend, but IMO that's more of a fluke. Either way, we need to have a competent NFL QB waiting in the wings to not only push Orton, but to fill in when he gets hurt. I hope like hell JA learned from his early mistakes of having back-ups like Hutch & the medicine woman. The best scenerio is to have a 3 tiered QB scenerio that we had in '06 & '07:

#1. A promising player who's questionable but we hope like hell will develop into a legit #1. Then it was Grossman, now it's Orton.

#2. A seasoned veteran legitimate NFL success, is not over the hill, and is dying for the next chance to be great. Then it was Griese, now it's likely someone from the list we've discussed. I will say that Byron Leftwich looked damn good at times for Pittsburgh this year when needed. Hell, I'd be ok with Lossman, Simms, or Carr. At least we know they can fill in when necessary without just pissing themselves and falling down.

#3. A young QB we are grooming for the future. Then it was Orton, and this year it was Hanie. While some on here love Hanie, the fact that JA never said anything such as, "We really like Caleb . . . " is damning evidence IMO that he'll be this year's version of Mike Hass.

 

As for the young QB, while I don't think we'd pass on a guy we really liked at #18, my guess is we'll wait for rounds 2, 3, or 4 to draft one. I'm just speculating, but I predict JA doesn't want there to be the pressure of, "You drafted him in the first round, you need to play him." Unless a guy drops to us the way Aaron Rogers did to Green Bay, I predict we'll pass on a QB.

 

Either way, we cannot enter the season with a rookie as our back-up. That's a proven recipe for disaster. We need to make damn certain we bring in a real NFL QB to back-up Orton and keep him from taking his shirt off & chugging whiskey.

 

 

 

 

First, while I understand you said, "for the sake of argument" but I disagree that older QBs are not possible, even factoring Angelo's comments. Just because he finally wants to stress the QB position, that doesn't mean he absolutely believes that he will find our long term answer this year in FA. He may be looking at a plan where he gets a veteran he believes is an upgrade now, while drafting a QB to develop and replace the veteran. Frankly, when I look at the list you provide, I think this makes even more sense, and none seem to be serious upgrades to Orton.

 

Anyway, looking at your list,

 

Chris Simms - HELL NO! I said this many times before, but I want no part of Simms. First, is there not enough evidence how mentally soft Texas players are? I don't want another mentally soft QB. To me, Simms is Grossman. Even going back to college, Oklahoma showed how Rex, er, I mean Simms, would crumble under pressure. Simms did so well at Texas overall because w/ that OL and offense, Oklahoma was about the only D that actually could pressure him, but that isn't the case in the NFL. When pressured, Simms folds.

 

Byron Leftwhich - Leftwhich is a QB who may do well if behind a solid OL, but we don't have one, and if we did, I think Orton could do just as well.

 

J.P. Lossman - This to me is actually an interesting choice. He didn't workout for Buffalo, but did at times show very solid promise. Loseman is a player who I question if his style ever matched his coaching. But I also think he will be among the more targetted young QBs in this FA class. Not to say he will cost a ton, but I think interest in him will be higher than in most.

 

Derrick Anderson (If available) - One year wonder? Stats would sure seem to indicate that. Not a horrible addition for cheap, but would not represent a real upgrade.

 

Kyle Boller - Never been a fan to be honest. He had plenty of chances for a team w/ a better OL and weapons than we have, not to mention coaching and defense, and could not get it done.

 

Luke McNown - Backup quality at best IMHO.

 

David Carr - Honestly, he always intrigued me. I always that it was a joke, and many Houston fans did to, that they invested to heavily in a "believed" franchise QB, but did so little to build an OL in front of him. I always felt he had the talent, BUT (a) he has failed to showcase that talent for several teams since Houston and (B) if OL was the issue in Houston, I question how much better he would look for us, w/ our OL.

 

The group of FAs is simply ugly, which really makes the timing of Angelo's statements questionable. More and more, if we are going to make QB a priority, the draft seems the way to go IMHO. Frankly, w/ Orton signed for another year, it would make sense. Orton plays this year while a rookie gets his feet wet w/o the pressure. Any QB we draft will not be a major investment, due to not having a very high pick, thus if Orton did establish himself, it isn't like we would have killed ourselves capwise. On the other hand, if Orton doesn't improve, we will have a young QB to turn to.

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For the most part, I agree. For me though, and I read/heard Angelo's speech as well, I just feel like the only players in FA that I can see actually fitting his idea of actual upgrade would be older QBs (Warner/McNabb). The rest I just don't see as being of a level that would constitute a major upgrade. At best, they would offer competition for Orton.

 

That is why I talk about the draft. Looking at what is available, if Angelo is serious about getting serious about QB, then the draft is the only way I can see him going.

 

You mention Ryan and Flacco being exceptions to the rule, and I agree that their instant success is an exception, but I would not agree that doesn't mean drafting a QB is anything but the rule if you want long term success.

 

I don't know if we would be looking at round 1. More than expectations, I think it is about what QBs are available. There is still too much time to know really what QBs will be valued where. This time last year, Flacco was a fringe late 2nd round value, but by draft, he was considered late 1st, and then Baltimore took him mid 1st.

 

So while there is still a lot to play out, if we want to be serious about QB, I think we should be looking at adding a FA to (a) push Orton and (B) provide depth. On top of that, you add a QB in the draft, whether that rookie be in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd. That gives us two QBs at the top, either of which are capable fo starting now, and a rookie we can allow to develop for at least a year. If Orton (for example) excels, then the rookie will ride the pine. Picking where we are, that is not a cap killer by any means. If Orton doesn't work out, then the rookie will get his shot.

 

Basically, I think we are in a similar situation as Cle, who had Brady Quinn and Anderson. They were able to allow Anderson his time, and when he flamed out, can now turn to Quinn, who isn't as green as he would have been if he was thrown directly into the fire.

 

Maybe an older QB is not out of the question, I think it's highly unlikely. During his state of the union speech, Angelo commented that yes, older quarterbacks did have some success, but he seemed to reiterate the importance of solidifying the position for years to come. Maybe that's just me reading to much into it. Yet, I can't help but wonder, what older free agent QB would we really be interested in? Kerry Collins & Kurt Warner's value are over-inflated due their success. Collins has been a game manager, which doesn't make him much different then Orton, and Warner's much better in a dome. Jeff Garcia's 39 and was briefly benched in favor of Brian Griese.

 

You mention the draft being the way to go, and I can't argue with that, except that it's important to remember that rookie quarterbacks and generally worthless. Sure Ryan & Flacco may cause teams to buck the trend, but IMO that's more of a fluke. Either way, we need to have a competent NFL QB waiting in the wings to not only push Orton, but to fill in when he gets hurt. I hope like hell JA learned from his early mistakes of having back-ups like Hutch & the medicine woman. The best scenerio is to have a 3 tiered QB scenerio that we had in '06 & '07:

#1. A promising player who's questionable but we hope like hell will develop into a legit #1. Then it was Grossman, now it's Orton.

#2. A seasoned veteran legitimate NFL success, is not over the hill, and is dying for the next chance to be great. Then it was Griese, now it's likely someone from the list we've discussed. I will say that Byron Leftwich looked damn good at times for Pittsburgh this year when needed. Hell, I'd be ok with Lossman, Simms, or Carr. At least we know they can fill in when necessary without just pissing themselves and falling down.

#3. A young QB we are grooming for the future. Then it was Orton, and this year it was Hanie. While some on here love Hanie, the fact that JA never said anything such as, "We really like Caleb . . . " is damning evidence IMO that he'll be this year's version of Mike Hass.

 

As for the young QB, while I don't think we'd pass on a guy we really liked at #18, my guess is we'll wait for rounds 2, 3, or 4 to draft one. I'm just speculating, but I predict JA doesn't want there to be the pressure of, "You drafted him in the first round, you need to play him." Unless a guy drops to us the way Aaron Rogers did to Green Bay, I predict we'll pass on a QB.

 

Either way, we cannot enter the season with a rookie as our back-up. That's a proven recipe for disaster. We need to make damn certain we bring in a real NFL QB to back-up Orton and keep him from taking his shirt off & chugging whiskey.

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David Carr, New York Giants -- seems to have the physical tools but lacks the mental toughness (pass)

Matt Cassel, New England Patriots -- could be a one year wonder or next Brady ( i am willing to gamble on the latter)beside he has already been developed for 4 yrs we would just need to add a new OC, #1 WR and improved OL to complement him?

Kerry Collins, Tennessee Titans -- old not interested (I predict the titans will lose this weekend)Ryan Fitzpatrick, Cincinnati Bengals -- no thanks

Charlie Frye, Seattle Seahawks -- the epitomey of inconsistent -- throws too many picks

Jeff Garcia, Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- can't stay healthy -- would rather stick with Orton than over pay for this guy

Rex Grossman, Bears -- see frye and carr and add shorter qb

Joey Harrington, New Orleans Saints -- Make Jonathan Quinn look like a servicable vet

Byron Leftwich, Pittsburgh Steelers -- has a long hitch no mobility, not a better option than Orton

J.P. Losman, Buffalo Bills -- see rex, plus injury history.

Jamie Martin, San Francisco 49ers -- who?

Luke McCown, Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- no thanks

Dan Orlovsky, Detroit Lions -- has nice attributes but unproven can not say is a better than Orton

J.T. O'Sullivan, San Francisco 49ers -- nothing special

Patrick Ramsey, Denver Broncos -- pass

Chris Simms, Tennessee Titans -- did have 1 good season with the bucs but not very strong and injury prone

Brian St. Pierre, Arizona Cardinals -pass

Marques Tuaisosopo, Oakland Raiders -- pass

Kurt Warner, Arizona Cardinals -- Afraid that we would vastly overpay and not get what he is in AZ for lack of WR on this team Anthony Wright, New York Giants -- no way

 

Out of this group I would take a gamble on Cassel and Anderson and maybe draft a prospect.

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