jason Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 I don't know what games these guys were watching, and I admit that I didn't even begin to research the other OGs in the NFC North, but I find it hard to believe that Garza is one of the best. All NFC North Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 14, 2009 Report Share Posted January 14, 2009 How about putting Payne in the mix? I don't know what games these guys were watching, and I admit that I didn't even begin to research the other OGs in the NFC North, but I find it hard to believe that Garza is one of the best. All NFC North Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I don't know what games these guys were watching, and I admit that I didn't even begin to research the other OGs in the NFC North, but I find it hard to believe that Garza is one of the best. All NFC North Team He's not, it's just that none of them stands out above the rest. Remember, there's only 3 other RG's in our division. As for RT, it should be Gosder Cherilus. He's the best RT in the North right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 How about putting Payne in the mix? Payne can tackle, but is horrendous in coverage. Right now he is mediocre and can suffice, but once we get our other needs taken care of (QB, OL, WR, NT, DE, FA, SAM... this list seems to get longer and longer) in the next year or two, SS needs to be and should be one of the top needs at the top of the list. Also, while at first after Brown got injured again, I was very adamant about not bringing him back next year, but I'm starting to change my point of view on that. He's still a leader in the clubhouse, and if it's on a cheap incentive based deal for one year, it's worth it. I think if we could get an actual FS, and have Payne and Brown rotate at SS, Brown's chance of injury will reduce and the level of play at SS will increase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Payne has all of 16 games experience. He wasn't perfect but IMO it's too early to throw him under the bus. We have to give players some time to develop. I prefer to focus on our FS fiasco and our Dline dilema so Payne can focus on his primary responsibility. Everyone complained about how we let Chris Harris go and he's played well for Carolina, although at the time I agreed with the decision based on the fact I felt Payne could replace him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Payne can tackle, but is horrendous in coverage. Right now he is mediocre and can suffice, but once we get our other needs taken care of (QB, OL, WR, NT, DE, FA, SAM... this list seems to get longer and longer) in the next year or two, SS needs to be and should be one of the top needs at the top of the list. Also, while at first after Brown got injured again, I was very adamant about not bringing him back next year, but I'm starting to change my point of view on that. He's still a leader in the clubhouse, and if it's on a cheap incentive based deal for one year, it's worth it. I think if we could get an actual FS, and have Payne and Brown rotate at SS, Brown's chance of injury will reduce and the level of play at SS will increase. I have been in favor or re-signing Brown all along, so long as we are only looking at him as a SS. IMHO, this year we saw that Brown can simply no longer play FS. He was never fast, but made up for the lack of speed w/ smarts, but I think he has slowed to the point that smarts and quick breaks can no longer compensate. However, once he started playing SS and in the box more, I felt his play improved greatly, as did our defense. I was a fan of Paynes, but simply not much of one now. While he can lay the wood, he doesn't wrap up, which drives me nuts. Not often I saw him trying to spear a guy, only to be knocked to the side, as the RB broke the tackle. That was because he doesn't wrap up. I think Brown is easily our best SS. His is injury prone, but w/ Payne and Steltz in depth, I think we should be fine w/ a more injury prone SS. The biggest key for me though is leadership. While I believe our D does have a significant amount of talent (still believe coaching hurt this group more than pure talent) I do not see leaders on our D. Players like Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman, Brown, Harris, etc have talent, but none are vocal leaders. They may be leaders by example type, but are not the sort of leaders that fire up their units. Brown is. Brown is the only player I have seen get into another plays face after a bad play. I know many will say it is the job of a coach, but too many former players have talked about the need for emotional leaders, and w/o Brown, I just don't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have been in favor or re-signing Brown all along, so long as we are only looking at him as a SS. IMHO, this year we saw that Brown can simply no longer play FS. He was never fast, but made up for the lack of speed w/ smarts, but I think he has slowed to the point that smarts and quick breaks can no longer compensate. However, once he started playing SS and in the box more, I felt his play improved greatly, as did our defense. I was a fan of Paynes, but simply not much of one now. While he can lay the wood, he doesn't wrap up, which drives me nuts. Not often I saw him trying to spear a guy, only to be knocked to the side, as the RB broke the tackle. That was because he doesn't wrap up. I think Brown is easily our best SS. His is injury prone, but w/ Payne and Steltz in depth, I think we should be fine w/ a more injury prone SS. The biggest key for me though is leadership. While I believe our D does have a significant amount of talent (still believe coaching hurt this group more than pure talent) I do not see leaders on our D. Players like Briggs, Urlacher, Tillman, Brown, Harris, etc have talent, but none are vocal leaders. They may be leaders by example type, but are not the sort of leaders that fire up their units. Brown is. Brown is the only player I have seen get into another plays face after a bad play. I know many will say it is the job of a coach, but too many former players have talked about the need for emotional leaders, and w/o Brown, I just don't see it. Great post, I completely agree. I would love to see Urlacher and Briggs leave there heart on the field and to see there tear into another player for being boneheaded or what have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan2000 Posted January 17, 2009 Report Share Posted January 17, 2009 Great post, I completely agree. I would love to see Urlacher and Briggs leave there heart on the field and to see there tear into another player for being boneheaded or what have you. Second that. And that is precisely part of the intangibles that makes Mike Brown valuable to the team. He has a great mind for the game and he will speak his mind if he sees the need and you can tell his teammates have a tremendous respect for him. He's not afraid to bluntly say "we sucked" He has a genuine nature that is so lacking on this team. On field leadership is so valuable but easily forgotten. The closest guy I think of on the D after Brown would be Briggs, or someone like Tillman. Tommie could be if he could keep his head in the game. But the Defense and offense needs leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.