Warner staying in AZ, Leftwhich highly sought after

[bradjock]

As per profootballtalk.com, in summary, Warner said he's staying in Arizona or retiring, and 1/3 of the teams in the NFL have interest in Leftwhich.

 

This is news to Bears fans since after JA's state of the Union address, many of us have taken his comments to mean that Angelo will pursue a QB in free agency. Now Warner, the top QB in free agency, is off the market. That will drive Leftwhich's price up, since as PFT pointed out, there are a ton of teams in the NFL desperate for a QB.

 

Early indications suggest there won't be a QB really worthy of the #18 pick. Anybody we draft won't likely provide immediate competition for Orton.

 

I mentioned in a previous post that the SCORE has suggested we're interested in Simms.

 

Either way, I can't imagine we'd pay any QB more then Orton, who's set to make 2 million this year. (please correct me if I'm wrong on that.)

 

It'll be interesting. Either way I can't wait for free agency to start so we can begin pissing & moaning about Angelo's lack of moves.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I bet Leftwich ends up here. He loves Lovie.

[Mongo3451]

Either way, I can't imagine we'd pay any QB more then Orton, who's set to make 2 million this year. (please correct me if I'm wrong on that.)

I don't know how much Orton makes. But if we bring in competition they will make more than 2 mil.

[bowlingtwig]

I don't know how much Orton makes. But if we bring in competition they will make more than 2 mil.

 

 

He is actually making 2.8 mil per fox sports.

[madlithuanian]

He'd make a fantastic back-up to Orton. And probably push Orton at the same time.

 

It should be an open competition at QB w/ Orton as the frontrunner...

 

I bet Leftwich ends up here. He loves Lovie.

[BearSox]

I'd love to get Leftwich on a 2 year deal. Let him compete with Orton, and best case scenario is that he out plays Orton and lives up to some of his potential, and worst case is he's a 1 year stop gap in 2010 if Orton sucks and we need to draft a QB in round 1 to develop for a year.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I wonder what kind of money Leftwich is looking for...?

[bradjock]

He'd make a fantastic back-up to Orton. And probably push Orton at the same time.

 

It should be an open competition at QB w/ Orton as the frontrunner...

 

Without intending to, you've just described exactly why Leftwhich won't come here. With Warner unofficially off the market, and Cassell franchised, Leftwhich, based on a couple good games with the champions this season, is clearly the #1 QB available. If he came here, he would have to beat out Orton.

 

Wouldn't he automatically be the #1 if he signed with Minnesota? Or San Fran? Detroit? All three of those teams would clearly be more motivated to outspend the Bears, and guarantee him that it's his job to lose. If Orton is due to make 2.8 million (I can't remember who it was & I'm too lazy to go back . . . thank you for posting that) there's not way Leftwhich will get that with the Bears. Hell, I look at him & Orton being fairly similar at this point.

 

So if we don't go after Leftwhich, Chris Simms is the next best QB available who's not close to 40 . . . after Simms it's Grossman, which ain't happening.

 

I really do hope that Angelo brings in someone to give Orton a run for his money.

[madlithuanian]

Good points...

 

 

 

Without intending to, you've just described exactly why Leftwhich won't come here. With Warner unofficially off the market, and Cassell franchised, Leftwhich, based on a couple good games with the champions this season, is clearly the #1 QB available. If he came here, he would have to beat out Orton.

 

Wouldn't he automatically be the #1 if he signed with Minnesota? Or San Fran? Detroit? All three of those teams would clearly be more motivated to outspend the Bears, and guarantee him that it's his job to lose. If Orton is due to make 2.8 million (I can't remember who it was & I'm too lazy to go back . . . thank you for posting that) there's not way Leftwhich will get that with the Bears. Hell, I look at him & Orton being fairly similar at this point.

 

So if we don't go after Leftwhich, Chris Simms is the next best QB available who's not close to 40 . . . after Simms it's Grossman, which ain't happening.

 

I really do hope that Angelo brings in someone to give Orton a run for his money.

[nfoligno]

I agree Leftwhich may have options available to him that offer a greater opportunity to start, and further agree it is not strongly likely we sign him.

 

Where I disagree is in your ranking of remaining FA QB. Sorry, but Simms is so far down my list it is not even funny.

 

I have beaten this dead horse often before, but will continue to do so. Simms sucks. He is a Grossman clone. He lacks field awareness. He is slow in decision making. And worst of all. When pressured, he crumbled. It was no different in college. At Texas, w/ an elite OL and great weapons, he was rarely under legit pressure. The only team capable of putting pressure on him was Oklahoma, and they had his number. Oklahoma knew then, what I am saying now. Pressure Simms and he will fold. He is simply a mentally weak QB. I swear to you, if not for his last name, he would be done. I would argue that, if not for his last name, he would not have even started over Major Applewhite, and thus, would not have been drafted as high as he was. He would not still today be considered a player worth looking at. This is a kid who has done jack shit, but due to his last name, continues to get press.

 

While I am not saying any of the below options are great, if we are looking for a relatively young QB to sign cheap, but who would offer a more reliable #2 than what we have:

 

Losemen - He is 27 and has decent/good size. In his one full season starting, he put up decent (not great) numbers. 3,000+ yards, 19/14 TD/Int ratio, 62.5 completion % and a 85 QB rating. He has had his problems over the last two seasons since, but I would say he still have a greater upside than most. Also a key for me is, while he has not worked out for Buffalo, that is the only team he has worked w/. Some players simply do not fit/workout for the teams that drafted them, but perform well elsewhere. I give a bit of a leg up to a player who has only played for one team, rather than one who has failed for numerous.

 

Boller - Never great, and not often that good, but again. Good size (6'3 220) and right age, 27. Failed in Baltimore which has not had much of an offense for him to work w/. Injuries as much as talent hurt his NFL career. If looking for a starter, far from my first option, but a #2? He has 53 games of experience but is still young, and IMHO, still has some upside. Again, like Losemen, failed for the team that drafted him, but has not failed elsewhere yet.

 

David Carr - Admittedly, I have always been a fan of his. In Texas, fans could never understand what the organization was doing. They drafted their franchise QB, but seemed to always surround him w/ Chicago like OLs. Yes, he had weapons, but the pass protection was so bad, it would make ours look allpro. Has been a backup behind two set veterans since leaving Houston, and played reasonably well when given the ball. I personally think Carr has greater upside than many other available QBs, but at the same time, not sure he is the best fit for us. Carr is a bit like Drew Bledsoe. If he has an OL to protect him, he can look pretty darn good. But if he doesn't have that OL, he doesn't have the escapability to buy time or compensate.

 

Patrick Ramsey - I always thought he was a pretty decent looking QB on a pretty bad team in Wash. Injuries effected him as much as talent. Since leaving Wash, he has been a backup QB w/ few chances to see the field playing behind Cutler.

 

All four of these QBs have game experience, are still relatively young (27-29) and have good size (smallest being 6'2). All were highly regarded at one point, and could fall into that category of not working out for their drafted team, but finding success elsewhere. I would take any one of these players over Simms or Rex, and believe any of them would provide a solid backup to Orton. Further, I think we can sign any of these guys to a 2+ year deal on the cheap, which could be key. If Orton is one and done after this year, I would hate to enter 2010 a player like Hanie as our only signed QB.

 

Without intending to, you've just described exactly why Leftwhich won't come here. With Warner unofficially off the market, and Cassell franchised, Leftwhich, based on a couple good games with the champions this season, is clearly the #1 QB available. If he came here, he would have to beat out Orton.

 

Wouldn't he automatically be the #1 if he signed with Minnesota? Or San Fran? Detroit? All three of those teams would clearly be more motivated to outspend the Bears, and guarantee him that it's his job to lose. If Orton is due to make 2.8 million (I can't remember who it was & I'm too lazy to go back . . . thank you for posting that) there's not way Leftwhich will get that with the Bears. Hell, I look at him & Orton being fairly similar at this point.

 

So if we don't go after Leftwhich, Chris Simms is the next best QB available who's not close to 40 . . . after Simms it's Grossman, which ain't happening.

 

I really do hope that Angelo brings in someone to give Orton a run for his money.

[flea]

I agree Leftwhich may have options available to him that offer a greater opportunity to start, and further agree it is not strongly likely we sign him.

 

Where I disagree is in your ranking of remaining FA QB. Sorry, but Simms is so far down my list it is not even funny.

 

I have beaten this dead horse often before, but will continue to do so. Simms sucks. He is a Grossman clone. He lacks field awareness. He is slow in decision making. And worst of all. When pressured, he crumbled. It was no different in college. At Texas, w/ an elite OL and great weapons, he was rarely under legit pressure. The only team capable of putting pressure on him was Oklahoma, and they had his number. Oklahoma knew then, what I am saying now. Pressure Simms and he will fold. He is simply a mentally weak QB. I swear to you, if not for his last name, he would be done. I would argue that, if not for his last name, he would not have even started over Major Applewhite, and thus, would not have been drafted as high as he was. He would not still today be considered a player worth looking at. This is a kid who has done jack shit, but due to his last name, continues to get press.

 

I've been saying that for years

[nfoligno]

Its fairly funny down hear the hate you hear for Simms. So many Texas fans feel that if not for Mack Brown's insistence on starting the golden boy, they would have won a championship under Major. Those teams were so freaking talented, but their (Simms) inability to beat Oklahoma doomed then each year.

 

Simms is to Texas fans want Grossman is to Bear fans.

 

I've been saying that for years

[bowlingtwig]

Its fairly funny down hear the hate you hear for Simms. So many Texas fans feel that if not for Mack Brown's insistence on starting the golden boy, they would have won a championship under Major. Those teams were so freaking talented, but their (Simms) inability to beat Oklahoma doomed then each year.

 

Simms is to Texas fans want Grossman is to Bear fans.

 

 

NFO I am just gonna have to disagree with you about Simms. I guess just call it gut feeling as you have excellent points about him. I think with the Bears he could succeed. Like I said though, you have made excellent points that I can't argue with.

[bradjock]

It's flat out silly that you're bitching about Simms for what he did in college.

 

Do you REALLY think any of these QB's you've mentioned below are that much better or worse then another? Including Byron Leftwhich. Hell, all these guys had huge potential at one point, and now they're cast-offs who are most likely hated by the fans of the franchises who drafted them.

 

Heck, to the normal fan, the best QB available is Rex Grossman. He passed for 3200 yards with a crappy offense and led his team to the Super Bowl two years ago. The only QB on the list of available QB's not close to forty, who's put up better yardage in a season is David Carr. He did that once in 2005 on a really bad Texans team where they didn't win much and he passed for 3500 yards.

 

Realistically, Rex is the best of the bunch. I do mean that in all seriousness. And I don't think Rex is good.

 

Getting back to the point, I don't see how you can say Simms is worse then any of these other guys. We need a guy who can push Orton. Simms has good size, the big arm, and he's close to the ideal QB age . . . and his pedigree doesn't hurt.

 

I'd be happy with any of the guys you mentioned since they are all legitimate NFL quarterbacks, and we won't have to deal with a Chad Hutchinson type melt-down. I hope like hell we sign one of them AND draft a QB in one of the first four rounds.

 

I just don't see how you can say one turd smells worse then the rest based on college.

 

 

 

I agree Leftwhich may have options available to him that offer a greater opportunity to start, and further agree it is not strongly likely we sign him.

 

Where I disagree is in your ranking of remaining FA QB. Sorry, but Simms is so far down my list it is not even funny.

 

I have beaten this dead horse often before, but will continue to do so. Simms sucks. He is a Grossman clone. He lacks field awareness. He is slow in decision making. And worst of all. When pressured, he crumbled. It was no different in college. At Texas, w/ an elite OL and great weapons, he was rarely under legit pressure. The only team capable of putting pressure on him was Oklahoma, and they had his number. Oklahoma knew then, what I am saying now. Pressure Simms and he will fold. He is simply a mentally weak QB. I swear to you, if not for his last name, he would be done. I would argue that, if not for his last name, he would not have even started over Major Applewhite, and thus, would not have been drafted as high as he was. He would not still today be considered a player worth looking at. This is a kid who has done jack shit, but due to his last name, continues to get press.

 

While I am not saying any of the below options are great, if we are looking for a relatively young QB to sign cheap, but who would offer a more reliable #2 than what we have:

 

Losemen - He is 27 and has decent/good size. In his one full season starting, he put up decent (not great) numbers. 3,000+ yards, 19/14 TD/Int ratio, 62.5 completion % and a 85 QB rating. He has had his problems over the last two seasons since, but I would say he still have a greater upside than most. Also a key for me is, while he has not worked out for Buffalo, that is the only team he has worked w/. Some players simply do not fit/workout for the teams that drafted them, but perform well elsewhere. I give a bit of a leg up to a player who has only played for one team, rather than one who has failed for numerous.

 

Boller - Never great, and not often that good, but again. Good size (6'3 220) and right age, 27. Failed in Baltimore which has not had much of an offense for him to work w/. Injuries as much as talent hurt his NFL career. If looking for a starter, far from my first option, but a #2? He has 53 games of experience but is still young, and IMHO, still has some upside. Again, like Losemen, failed for the team that drafted him, but has not failed elsewhere yet.

 

David Carr - Admittedly, I have always been a fan of his. In Texas, fans could never understand what the organization was doing. They drafted their franchise QB, but seemed to always surround him w/ Chicago like OLs. Yes, he had weapons, but the pass protection was so bad, it would make ours look allpro. Has been a backup behind two set veterans since leaving Houston, and played reasonably well when given the ball. I personally think Carr has greater upside than many other available QBs, but at the same time, not sure he is the best fit for us. Carr is a bit like Drew Bledsoe. If he has an OL to protect him, he can look pretty darn good. But if he doesn't have that OL, he doesn't have the escapability to buy time or compensate.

 

Patrick Ramsey - I always thought he was a pretty decent looking QB on a pretty bad team in Wash. Injuries effected him as much as talent. Since leaving Wash, he has been a backup QB w/ few chances to see the field playing behind Cutler.

 

All four of these QBs have game experience, are still relatively young (27-29) and have good size (smallest being 6'2). All were highly regarded at one point, and could fall into that category of not working out for their drafted team, but finding success elsewhere. I would take any one of these players over Simms or Rex, and believe any of them would provide a solid backup to Orton. Further, I think we can sign any of these guys to a 2+ year deal on the cheap, which could be key. If Orton is one and done after this year, I would hate to enter 2010 a player like Hanie as our only signed QB.

[nfoligno]

You misunderstand the point. My knock on Simms is not simply about what he did in college. My knock on him is, IMHO, if failures in the NFL seem near identical to his failures in college. Many players have negatives in college, and develop those areas once they enter the NFL. In Simms, I see a player whose negatives today, as a relatively developed NFL player, are no different from his college days. Thus, I have little expectation for him to develop further in this regard.

 

After too many years w/ Rex, I simply do not want another QB who I believe is mentally weak. I do not want another QB who I feel can not handle the pressure of a pass rush, or is slow to read the field. To me, that is what Simms is.

 

Sorry, but I do think the turd that Simms is smells worse than the rest. In the rest, I simply see more potential to develop, where as w/ Simms, I just do not believe he will ever develop in those areas that have held him back. I just do not think he has what it takes upstairs to be an NFL QB, and feel if it were not for his name, he would not be in the NFL at all.

 

It's flat out silly that you're bitching about Simms for what he did in college.

 

Do you REALLY think any of these QB's you've mentioned below are that much better or worse then another? Including Byron Leftwhich. Hell, all these guys had huge potential at one point, and now they're cast-offs who are most likely hated by the fans of the franchises who drafted them.

 

Heck, to the normal fan, the best QB available is Rex Grossman. He passed for 3200 yards with a crappy offense and led his team to the Super Bowl two years ago. The only QB on the list of available QB's not close to forty, who's put up better yardage in a season is David Carr. He did that once in 2005 on a really bad Texans team where they didn't win much and he passed for 3500 yards.

 

Realistically, Rex is the best of the bunch. I do mean that in all seriousness. And I don't think Rex is good.

 

Getting back to the point, I don't see how you can say Simms is worse then any of these other guys. We need a guy who can push Orton. Simms has good size, the big arm, and he's close to the ideal QB age . . . and his pedigree doesn't hurt.

 

I'd be happy with any of the guys you mentioned since they are all legitimate NFL quarterbacks, and we won't have to deal with a Chad Hutchinson type melt-down. I hope like hell we sign one of them AND draft a QB in one of the first four rounds.

 

I just don't see how you can say one turd smells worse then the rest based on college.

[bradjock]

So I'm guessing you'd take Simms over the combination of Hanie & that guy we signed from Northwestern as our back-up?

 

What about Simms versus a rookie? It seems unlikely that we'll draft one in the first round, and even if we took Sanchez or Freeman, I sure as hell don't want to see other one of them seeing the field their rookie seasons.

 

That makes finding a solid back-up imprerative, or we risk another Quinn/Krenzel/Hutchinson/George debacle.

 

It seems to me we're fairly limited, especially now that Carr is off the list. AND we're not likely to pay our #2, more then we're paying Orton.

 

Looking at Losman, Leftwich, or Simms, or Ramsey, it may comes down to whoever is the cheapest. Personally I'd be happy with any of these guys. I'm not sure why the media thinks we're high on Simms, but if we think he best fits our system, why the hell not?

 

 

You misunderstand the point. My knock on Simms is not simply about what he did in college. My knock on him is, IMHO, if failures in the NFL seem near identical to his failures in college. Many players have negatives in college, and develop those areas once they enter the NFL. In Simms, I see a player whose negatives today, as a relatively developed NFL player, are no different from his college days. Thus, I have little expectation for him to develop further in this regard.

 

After too many years w/ Rex, I simply do not want another QB who I believe is mentally weak. I do not want another QB who I feel can not handle the pressure of a pass rush, or is slow to read the field. To me, that is what Simms is.

 

Sorry, but I do think the turd that Simms is smells worse than the rest. In the rest, I simply see more potential to develop, where as w/ Simms, I just do not believe he will ever develop in those areas that have held him back. I just do not think he has what it takes upstairs to be an NFL QB, and feel if it were not for his name, he would not be in the NFL at all.

[AZ54]

What's the deal with Alex Smith? Are the Niners going to keep him or would they move him for a late round pick? Is he worth looking at? The guy has had something like 4 offensive coordinators during his time in San Fran but he has some good athletic skills. Seems to me if we're looking at using a later round pick on a QB he'd be worth a shot as much as any college QB.

[bradjock]

What's the deal with Alex Smith? Are the Niners going to keep him or would they move him for a late round pick? Is he worth looking at? The guy has had something like 4 offensive coordinators during his time in San Fran but he has some good athletic skills. Seems to me if we're looking at using a later round pick on a QB he'd be worth a shot as much as any college QB.

 

The rumor is they'll cut him since he's due a huge roster bonus. There's no way we'd trade for him, since we'd be taking on his big contract.

 

If he gets dumped, I'd happily add him to our list of turd quarterbacks we could bring in to back-up Orton.

[nfoligno]

I'm sorry, but regardless of Carr/McCown being re-signed, there are still tons more QBs I would take over Simms.

 

You mentioned Losman, Leftwhich, Ramsey. How about:

 

Garcia - As TB just re-signed McCown, basically a message was sent to Garcia. Old as dirt, but I think Ferrotte and Collins showed older backups are not bad to have. No long term answer, but I would not mind him as a short term backup.

 

Boller - Take him in a minute over Simms.

 

Also, while it may just come down to money, I think you overlook something. Our QB situation is far from stable. Would one of these QBs take a bit less to be Orton's competition/backup, rather than sit behind a more established veteran? I think many would view Chicago as a good opportunity, as history shows backup QBs are (a) popular and ( get an opportunity at some point.

 

You ask if I would take Simms over Hanie and the new guy, or Hanie and a rookie. I refuse to accept that question. Yes, I want a backup w/ more experience, but I refuse to accept the rationale that Simms is the only option.

 

As for your "why the hell not" comment on Simms, I think I have made my case (several times). I think he sucks, and if not for his name, would not be an NFL QB. I swear I would take JT O'Sullivan over Simms. Just because he has experience doesn't mean much. There are plenty of QBs with experience I want no part of.

 

So I'm guessing you'd take Simms over the combination of Hanie & that guy we signed from Northwestern as our back-up?

 

What about Simms versus a rookie? It seems unlikely that we'll draft one in the first round, and even if we took Sanchez or Freeman, I sure as hell don't want to see other one of them seeing the field their rookie seasons.

 

That makes finding a solid back-up imprerative, or we risk another Quinn/Krenzel/Hutchinson/George debacle.

 

It seems to me we're fairly limited, especially now that Carr is off the list. AND we're not likely to pay our #2, more then we're paying Orton.

 

Looking at Losman, Leftwich, or Simms, or Ramsey, it may comes down to whoever is the cheapest. Personally I'd be happy with any of these guys. I'm not sure why the media thinks we're high on Simms, but if we think he best fits our system, why the hell not?

[balta1701-A]

Well, I think the Jets just became likely players for one of Warner, Collins, or Garcia.

[AZ54]

The rumor is they'll cut him since he's due a huge roster bonus. There's no way we'd trade for him, since we'd be taking on his big contract.

 

If he gets dumped, I'd happily add him to our list of turd quarterbacks we could bring in to back-up Orton.

 

In that case he fits what JA wants: A guy who has starter experience but not good enough to start a big QB controversy yet at the same time being good enough to have Orton looking over his shoulder. Not to mention that Alex Smith can run and that's a good attribute to have behind our Oline.

[bowlingtwig]

In that case he fits what JA wants: A guy who has starter experience but not good enough to start a big QB controversy yet at the same time being good enough to have Orton looking over his shoulder. Not to mention that Alex Smith can run and that's a good attribute to have behind our Oline.

 

 

I agree. If they do cut him I would be all for trying to bring him in.