Left Tackle Still Highest Priority...

[Mongo3451]

OL was again a weakness on the Bears last season. With the recent announcement that Tait may be retiring, the OL will be rendered weaker than it was last season.

 

Looking into the depth of our OL, tackle is the glaring need; with the most important tackle being the left. Tait provided insurance in the instance St. Clair and/or Williams failed. IMO - St Clair was borderline at best. I don't have a direct source, but I think I remember reading that he gave up the most sacks in the NFL last season. (please correct if wrong) His run blocking was not above average either.

 

With that being said, how do we plug St. Clair in at RT with confidence he will be an asset? How can we be sure that Williams is a good football player, since he has not played a snap at LT in the NFL? So, we know St. Clair is not a good LT, Williams may not be able to play anything and Tait (the player serviceable at both sides) retiring leaves us with zero confirmed talent.

 

Sorry guys, St. Clair is NOT a starting caliber player, allthough his signing should be a priority. The reason LT makes sense is due to them usually being better athletes. If Gross becomes availible, we should may a play for him. In the draft, if we luck out and Oher falls to us, we should all do backflips, as he has better natural ability than Williams. Even if we get Gross, I still take Oher. Then, we can go into training camp with our young new tackles battling it out for which side they will play. You can do so much more with an athletic tackle than you can with the other positions. You can even play them next to each other if needed. Some of you may disagree, but time will always tell, you can never be overstocked with talent at this position. At this point, the cupboard is practically bare and it needs overstocked to ensure adequate talent is availible.

[bradjock]

While everyone's been focusing on Gross, since he's the best OT available, he's far from the only OT available. If Tait actually is retiring, my guess is that acquiring a starting RT will be our #1 priority. This could be the reason we're not shoring more interest in St. Clair.

 

As for Gross, I wouldn't be shocked if he signed a deal for 100 million. Average offensive-tackles have been signing 60 million $$$ deals, and right now Gross is the best in the game. I don't see the Bears spending this, mainly because we believe that Williams can be our LT of the future.

 

We could acquire a RT for less. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?sort=gra...p;positionId=46 This is a good list of who's available. At RT, Stacy Andrews would be a good fit. He's young enough and he plays the right side.

 

Either way, I'd still love to see us resign St. Clair. If nothing else, he can start at either guard position.

 

OL was again a weakness on the Bears last season. With the recent announcement that Tait may be retiring, the OL will be rendered weaker than it was last season.

 

Looking into the depth of our OL, tackle is the glaring need; with the most important tackle being the left. Tait provided insurance in the instance St. Clair and/or Williams failed. IMO - St Clair was borderline at best. I don't have a direct source, but I think I remember reading that he gave up the most sacks in the NFL last season. (please correct if wrong) His run blocking was not above average either.

 

With that being said, how do we plug St. Clair in at RT with confidence he will be an asset? How can we be sure that Williams is a good football player, since he has not played a snap at LT in the NFL? So, we know St. Clair is not a good LT, Williams may not be able to play anything and Tait (the player serviceable at both sides) retiring leaves us with zero confirmed talent.

 

Sorry guys, St. Clair is NOT a starting caliber player, allthough his signing should be a priority. The reason LT makes sense is due to them usually being better athletes. If Gross becomes availible, we should may a play for him. In the draft, if we luck out and Oher falls to us, we should all do backflips, as he has better natural ability than Williams. Even if we get Gross, I still take Oher. Then, we can go into training camp with our young new tackles battling it out for which side they will play. You can do so much more with an athletic tackle than you can with the other positions. You can even play them next to each other if needed. Some of you may disagree, but time will always tell, you can never be overstocked with talent at this position. At this point, the cupboard is practically bare and it needs overstocked to ensure adequate talent is availible.

[BearSox]

You forgot to mention that Stacy Andrews is complete garbage and actually gave up as many sacks as St. Clair did, except he was actually playing the right side.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I want Mark Tauscher. He was a damn good RT but he tore his ACL this past year and so he might come cheap.

 

He was in a ZBS in GB but I don't think adjusting would be too tough.

[Wesson44]

Looks like we will be going after Gross from the Panthers!

[nfoligno]

Man, this is one reason I liked Albert last year. I do not think Williams can really play anywhere but LT. He doesn't have the powere to play inside or RT. He was pretty much the most boom/bust OT in the draft (IMHO) as most of the rest were viewed as capable of other positions on the OL, whereas Williams was stictly a LT. That is the only problem w/ the idea of 3 stud OTs. I love the idea, but hate the idea of a wasted pick in Williams.

 

If we get Gross, I am all for going OL in the draft, but feel we need to focus on OG, where we also are very weak, and thin.

 

OL was again a weakness on the Bears last season. With the recent announcement that Tait may be retiring, the OL will be rendered weaker than it was last season.

 

Looking into the depth of our OL, tackle is the glaring need; with the most important tackle being the left. Tait provided insurance in the instance St. Clair and/or Williams failed. IMO - St Clair was borderline at best. I don't have a direct source, but I think I remember reading that he gave up the most sacks in the NFL last season. (please correct if wrong) His run blocking was not above average either.

 

With that being said, how do we plug St. Clair in at RT with confidence he will be an asset? How can we be sure that Williams is a good football player, since he has not played a snap at LT in the NFL? So, we know St. Clair is not a good LT, Williams may not be able to play anything and Tait (the player serviceable at both sides) retiring leaves us with zero confirmed talent.

 

Sorry guys, St. Clair is NOT a starting caliber player, allthough his signing should be a priority. The reason LT makes sense is due to them usually being better athletes. If Gross becomes availible, we should may a play for him. In the draft, if we luck out and Oher falls to us, we should all do backflips, as he has better natural ability than Williams. Even if we get Gross, I still take Oher. Then, we can go into training camp with our young new tackles battling it out for which side they will play. You can do so much more with an athletic tackle than you can with the other positions. You can even play them next to each other if needed. Some of you may disagree, but time will always tell, you can never be overstocked with talent at this position. At this point, the cupboard is practically bare and it needs overstocked to ensure adequate talent is availible.

[nfoligno]

Not sure Gross will get as much as you think, but I do agree there are several quality RTs on the market this year. This is something I have been saying for a while. So many are talking about St. Clair for RT, but I think that would be a wasted opportunity, as I think we could simply do better.

 

I agree about re-signing st. Clair though, so long as we are not looking at him to be our RT. Williams is still a question mark, and we are still weak at OG. The only potential problem is, St. Clair has said he wants to play OT, so I think he would first see what other teams may offer him, in terms of OT, before settling w/ us to play OG.

 

While everyone's been focusing on Gross, since he's the best OT available, he's far from the only OT available. If Tait actually is retiring, my guess is that acquiring a starting RT will be our #1 priority. This could be the reason we're not shoring more interest in St. Clair.

 

As for Gross, I wouldn't be shocked if he signed a deal for 100 million. Average offensive-tackles have been signing 60 million $$$ deals, and right now Gross is the best in the game. I don't see the Bears spending this, mainly because we believe that Williams can be our LT of the future.

 

We could acquire a RT for less. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/fa?sort=gra...p;positionId=46 This is a good list of who's available. At RT, Stacy Andrews would be a good fit. He's young enough and he plays the right side.

 

Either way, I'd still love to see us resign St. Clair. If nothing else, he can start at either guard position.

[nfoligno]

I don't know. I like him too, but everything I have read indicates he will be considerably more valuable in FA. Most lists I have seen have him as a top 3 OT, and I think he will see a very nice payday.

 

I want Mark Tauscher. He was a damn good RT but he tore his ACL this past year and so he might come cheap.

 

He was in a ZBS in GB but I don't think adjusting would be too tough.

[Mongo3451]

Man, this is one reason I liked Albert last year. I remember you being an advocate for him last year and agree in hindsight.

 

I do not think Williams can really play anywhere but LT. He doesn't have the powere to play inside or RT. Disagree with that point. I feel he could slide to LG with relative ease.

 

He was pretty much the most boom/bust OT in the draft (IMHO) as most of the rest were viewed as capable of other positions on the OL, whereas Williams was stictly a LT. Again, I feel he could move to LG easily and possibly RT.

 

That is the only problem w/ the idea of 3 stud OTs. Agreed, with a twist. The twist is that, cough cough, if the coaches see outside the box a way for it to work. We could have both insurance and flexibility.

 

I love the idea, but hate the idea of a wasted pick in Williams. I still love the idea, especially if Williams is a wasted pick. Again, we are totally vulnerable at both tackle spots due to un-knowns.

 

If we get Gross, I am all for going OL in the draft, but feel we need to focus on OG, where we also are very weak, and thin. I am going to stick with my original post. Gross is a stud at both sides, providing valuable insurance. As a matter of fact, I pencil him in at LT for next season. Move Williams to LG. Groom Beekman to take over for Olin in 2010. St. Clair to RG. And Oher at RT. The reasoning to add Oher to the mix is 1) he's too good of a talent to pass up, 2) Between he and Williams, the odds are one will not grade out. So you move the loser to OG for a career path.

[Wesson44]

IMHO I think we leave Williams at LT and move St.Clair to LG, Kruetz at C and replace Garza with Buenning and put Gross at RT

[Pixote]

IMHO I think we leave Williams at LT and move St.Clair to LG, Kruetz at C and replace Garza with Buenning and put Gross at RT

 

When St Clair played OG 2 years ago, I thought he looked very good. I think he would accept the role.

[Pixote]

Man, this is one reason I liked Albert last year. I do not think Williams can really play anywhere but LT. He doesn't have the powere to play inside or RT. He was pretty much the most boom/bust OT in the draft (IMHO) as most of the rest were viewed as capable of other positions on the OL, whereas Williams was stictly a LT. That is the only problem w/ the idea of 3 stud OTs. I love the idea, but hate the idea of a wasted pick in Williams.

 

If we get Gross, I am all for going OL in the draft, but feel we need to focus on OG, where we also are very weak, and thin.

 

I am not ready to write off Williams as a wasted pick.

[BearSox]

This thread is quite stupid to be perfectly honest. Chris Williams is going to be given every chance to succeed at LT. It would be beyond insanely idiotic to draft yet another LT in back to back years, AND sign Jordan Gross.

[nfoligno]

I thought he looked good in a relative manner. We were used to seeing such AWFUL play that mediocre play looked fantastic. I would compare his play that year to Beekman this year. Not bad, but not that good either.

 

As for whether he would accept the role, I think that may depend on FA. Do you think he would accept an extension to play OG w/o first feeling the waters in FA to see if anyone else wants him to play OT? He has said he has spent most of his career playing OT, and wants to continue there. So maybe it is a question of what is more important to him. Being a Chicago Bear or playing OT.

 

When St Clair played OG 2 years ago, I thought he looked very good. I think he would accept the role.

[nfoligno]

Nor am I. That was my whole point. While Williams is no sure thing, I think we have no choice but to move forward and assume he is our LT. We can add depth, but we need to move forward w/ him in our plans at LT.

 

My only point was that Williams was not considered as being likely to play other positions on the OL. Many rookie LTs may not make it right out of college, but many LTs are able to move inside or to RT. Williams is more of a finesse OT, and was not considered to have the power to move insdie to OG or play RT. I am NOT writing him off by any means. I am only pointing out we have little choice but to assume he is our LT moving forward.

 

I am not ready to write off Williams as a wasted pick.

[nfoligno]

I remember you being an advocate for him last year and agree in hindsight.

 

Technically, I was an advocate of just about every OT that went in the 1st EXCEPT Williams, who I was not a fan of. All I can say is, I hope I was 100% WRONG!

 

Disagree with that point. I feel he could slide to LG with relative ease.

 

Based on what? Just asking. Per all the reports I read, he is a finesse OT. He is considered an OT that has good quickness and can block the speed DEs to the outside. What he lacks is power, and that was seen (per the reports) in his run blocking, which was considered average. He is more of a lateral guy that power burst guy. If you take him out of the LT spot, you essentially take away the reason he was drafted. You do not need great lateral quickness at OG. Just not sure someone who lacks the power and run blocking would work moving inside.

 

Again, I feel he could move to LG easily and possibly RT.

 

Again, this is based on what? All the reports I read very much questioned his ability to play OG or RT.

 

Agreed, with a twist. The twist is that, cough cough, if the coaches see outside the box a way for it to work. We could have both insurance and flexibility.

 

Hey, I love drafting tons of OL. My only point is, if we were to add Gross AND draft an OL, it would have to be an OG. Now, we can draft an OT to play OG (happens often enough) but I do not think we can have a competition at LT between the rookie and Williams. We simply have to assume Williams can man the LT spot, and need to concentrate on providing him better LG support.

 

I still love the idea, especially if Williams is a wasted pick. Again, we are totally vulnerable at both tackle spots due to un-knowns.

 

IMHO, we are pretty vulnerable at OG as well. I understand what you are saying, but why not instead add Gross (we agree about that) and then draft a player w/ the intention of his playing OG.

 

I am going to stick with my original post. Gross is a stud at both sides, providing valuable insurance. As a matter of fact, I pencil him in at LT for next season. Move Williams to LG. Groom Beekman to take over for Olin in 2010. St. Clair to RG. And Oher at RT. The reasoning to add Oher to the mix is 1) he's too good of a talent to pass up, 2) Between he and Williams, the odds are one will not grade out. So you move the loser to OG for a career path.

 

I understand, and frankly, I am not saying we should not (a) sign Gross and ( draft Oher. But, if we were to draft Oher, I think it would depend on whether Oher was seen as capable of moving inside. I think you are simply assuming any player drafted to play LT can move to other locations on the OL. Often, that is a good assumption, but I am not sure if it plays out here. If you are basing your opinion of Williams moving inside, or to RT, on something, please throw it out there. But when reports question his (a) power and ( run blocking, that does not often translate to OG or RT.

 

Hey, few on this board more than I (and Jason) have screamed for our building up our OL. I want to add starters, as well as depth. At the same time, when you add certain players, I think you really need to give that guy a chance before you simply write him off. We need to move forward w/ the assumption Williams can play LT. Now, I have NO problem drafting a player who can play both inside and potentially LT. If Oher is viewed as a player who might be able to play OG, that would be fine by me. That would (a) give us a great OL, ( if Williams doesn't workout, give us a solid potential player to move outside. The only area i disagree w/ is the idea of having Oher compete w/ Williams. If Williams is not playing LT, I think we would find him a massive bust. Not just due to not playing LT, but because I just don't think he would be more than a spare player at OG.

[defiantgiant]

If Chris Williams is healthy, which is a big if, then he'll be the guy at left tackle. He's definitely missed out on a bunch of playing time and experience, but a lot of reports have been saying that he's gotten a lot stronger in the weight room since coming to the Bears, which is good. Upper-body strength was a big issue with him in the draft, so if he's improved on that, he could still be a better tackle this year than he was pre-injury. Jury's still out on him, but there's no reason yet to think that he can't start.

 

That said, if Williams gets hurt, we need depth. I think the Bears have got to resign St. Clair, then sign Vernon Carey from the Dolphins. Carey's a very good right tackle or an above-average left tackle. Also, he's only 27, has never missed a start in four years, and he and St. Clair used to be teammates in Miami. The Dolphins have their left tackle in Jake Long and it's been reported that they think Carey's replaceable on the right side. The Bears would have to shell out for him, but not like they would for Gross.

 

With Carey and St. Clair, Chicago would have some options. They can go Williams-Beekman-Kreutz-Garza-Carey, with St. Clair as a reserve tackle/guard. Then if something happens with Williams (another injury, some other major problem) they could switch Carey to the left side and start St. Clair on the right, which would be preferable to having St. Clair at LT for any large stretch of time.

[jason]

This thread is quite stupid to be perfectly honest. Chris Williams is going to be given every chance to succeed at LT. It would be beyond insanely idiotic to draft yet another LT in back to back years, AND sign Jordan Gross.

 

Maybe you're content with St. Clair at RT, and Garza even being on the field, and being risky with Williams, but I'm not...and I'm fairly sure that any sane person who watched the Bears' offense last year realizes the OL has major deficiencies.

 

I'd prefer to have another solid OT, and then let the situation dictate which one of the two legit, first round OT talents plays on the left, and which plays on the right (although I hope that Williams simply is considered the LT, and the pickups/moves are for RT and G). St. Clair can move to OG.

[chwtom]

I like Khalif Barnes and Vernon Carey more than Gross, simply because they are more likely to be available and they'll cost less. Barnes in particular wasn't an ideal LT, but is one of the best run-blocking tackles in the game, so should be an ideal fit for RT.

 

For all the talk of us getting Gross, there have been zero indications from Carolina that he's leaving.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

I like Khalif Barnes and Vernon Carey more than Gross, simply because they are more likely to be available and they'll cost less. Barnes in particular wasn't an ideal LT, but is one of the best run-blocking tackles in the game, so should be an ideal fit for RT.

 

For all the talk of us getting Gross, there have been zero indications from Carolina that he's leaving.

Barnes was the human false-start last year for the Jags. I don't care if he costs $700K next year, I'll pass on him.

 

I also like Carey, though. Rumor has it, however, he's Miami's #1 priority coming into this offseason, so the chances he's not playing in Miami next year are slim.

[Mongo3451]

This thread is quite stupid to be perfectly honest. I agree with you and I started it. I think it's completely idiotic that this is the 3rd year in a row for this conversation. Not nearly enough attention has been paid to OL by Angelo and now someone is going to pay whether it be him or Orton or us fans.. Chris Williams is going to be given every chance to succeed at LT. Agreed he should, but what is the contengency plan if he fails? Do you trust St. Clair? It would be beyond insanely idiotic to draft yet another LT in back to back years, AND sign Jordan Gross. My original post what intended to overcompensate to get these positions right. Once that occurs, you can usually move the left-over to OG if you've aquired a versitile enough player. Odds are that someone is not going to pan out.

[nfoligno]

This is my only issue w/ your reasoning. I think Jason and I would both be in favor of "over-compensating" at the OL position in order to get it right. Frankly, we are so far from set on the OL that we need not only starters, but depth as well. But where I disagree somewhat is the idea that any LT drafted can automatically move inside or to RT. While this is often true, I do not believe it always is. Some LTs are just too tall (for example) to play inside, and don't have the knee bend. Some have the lateral ability to play LT, but maybe not the power to move elsewhere.

 

You and I have discussed this some already, but the fact that we drafted Williams last year is my hangup. You say he has added power and bulked up, but I have to sort of question that. While he spent a lot of time working out, what was the starting point coming off injury? I wonder how much strength he really added. I made the comparison before, but to me, Williams seems very much like Blake Brockemeyer. He is a finesse OT who can use quickness and agility to seal the outside, and try to open holes. If he can single block a DE like Freeney, he earns his pay, but he will likely never be an great run blocker, and may have more trouble w/ power rushers than speed rushers. If you move him inside, how well does his game translate? I am just not sure, but I read enough questioning this last year.

 

Heading into this draft, I am all for drafting OL in the 1st, even if we were to sign Gross. But rather than plan on a competition, what I think I would be looking to do is drafting an OL who (a) I believe could be a great OG and ( who potentially could play LT. If we found that player, we could start him out inside, and if Williams doesn't workout, we have a backup plan.

 

Hell, I would even still sign St. Clair. Think about this OL for just a moment. Williams - St. Clair - Kreutz - Otah - Gross. I like that.

 

This thread is quite stupid to be perfectly honest. I agree with you and I started it. I think it's completely idiotic that this is the 3rd year in a row for this conversation. Not nearly enough attention has been paid to OL by Angelo and now someone is going to pay whether it be him or Orton or us fans.. Chris Williams is going to be given every chance to succeed at LT. Agreed he should, but what is the contengency plan if he fails? Do you trust St. Clair? It would be beyond insanely idiotic to draft yet another LT in back to back years, AND sign Jordan Gross. My original post what intended to overcompensate to get these positions right. Once that occurs, you can usually move the left-over to OG if you've aquired a versitile enough player. Odds are that someone is not going to pan out.

[defiantgiant]

Barnes was the human false-start last year for the Jags. I don't care if he costs $700K next year, I'll pass on him.

 

I also like Carey, though. Rumor has it, however, he's Miami's #1 priority coming into this offseason, so the chances he's not playing in Miami next year are slim.

 

I'm not so sure Carey will be back with the Dolphins. He's been in Miami literally his entire life, and he's been a solid player for the Dolphins, but apparently Parcells' staff are doing this "no-negotiation" approach to contracts this offseason. They've just been offering what they think is a fair value for the player, take it or leave it. This is why they'll probably lose Crowder: he thinks he can get a better deal elsewhere, and he knows he's not going to get a better one from Miami than what they already offered.

 

I don't know if Crowder's going to get the contract he wants, but Carey almost certainly will. If the Dolphins lowball him and stick to their current policy, he'll be getting offered a much bigger paycheck somewhere else. If he's willing to take a pay cut to stay with his hometown team, that's one thing, but it seems like Miami's setting themselves up to lose a bidding war for him.

[balta1701-A]

I'm not so sure Carey will be back with the Dolphins. He's been in Miami literally his entire life, and he's been a solid player for the Dolphins, but apparently Parcells' staff are doing this "no-negotiation" approach to contracts this offseason. They've just been offering what they think is a fair value for the player, take it or leave it. This is why they'll probably lose Crowder: he thinks he can get a better deal elsewhere, and he knows he's not going to get a better one from Miami than what they already offered.

 

I don't know if Crowder's going to get the contract he wants, but Carey almost certainly will. If the Dolphins lowball him and stick to their current policy, he'll be getting offered a much bigger paycheck somewhere else. If he's willing to take a pay cut to stay with his hometown team, that's one thing, but it seems like Miami's setting themselves up to lose a bidding war for him.

If I was in the negotiating room and I'd been coming off of a playoff season, that's the kind of perspective I'd take if I were in a bad financial position...set a price I can afford, and don't budge from it. If you believe the PFT numbers, pre-cuts and restructuring the Dolphins should be about $19 million under the cap this year. That suggests to me that the dolphins are worrying about their revenue numbers for the upcoming year quite a bit and want to control salaries accordingly.

[chwtom]

Barnes was the human false-start last year for the Jags. I don't care if he costs $700K next year, I'll pass on him.

 

I also like Carey, though. Rumor has it, however, he's Miami's #1 priority coming into this offseason, so the chances he's not playing in Miami next year are slim.

 

 

I couldn't find anything showing statistics for false starts, so I don't know if Barnes truly gets called for false starts a lot. But false starts at the LT position have less to do with concentration lapses and more to do with compensating for being in the wrong position. He probably doens't have the footwork to deal with the speed rushers at RE, and jumps early to try to compensate for that. That would be less an issue at RT, which would show off his strength, which is run blocking.

 

Barnes has the highest YPC being him of any LT.