Left Tackle Still Highest Priority...

[Mongo3451]

This is my only issue w/ your reasoning. I think Jason and I would both be in favor of "over-compensating" at the OL position in order to get it right. Frankly, we are so far from set on the OL that we need not only starters, but depth as well. But where I disagree somewhat is the idea that any LT drafted can automatically move inside or to RT. While this is often true, I do not believe it always is. Some LTs are just too tall (for example) to play inside, and don't have the knee bend. Some have the lateral ability to play LT, but maybe not the power to move elsewhere.

I'm coming out of my "bell tower" a little on this situation. But to clarify what I said, it's if you draft the right guy. You are correct in stating some players play to high, etc... In Williams case, he relies on quickness and technique which really translates into the zone blocking our OL does. If you want a mauler/road grater, he's not your guy.

 

You and I have discussed this some already, but the fact that we drafted Williams last year is my hangup. You say he has added power and bulked up, but I have to sort of question that. While he spent a lot of time working out, what was the starting point coming off injury? I wonder how much strength he really added. I made the comparison before, but to me, Williams seems very much like Blake Brockemeyer. He is a finesse OT who can use quickness and agility to seal the outside, and try to open holes. If he can single block a DE like Freeney, he earns his pay, but he will likely never be an great run blocker, and may have more trouble w/ power rushers than speed rushers. If you move him inside, how well does his game translate? I am just not sure, but I read enough questioning this last year.

I actually did not say anything about him getting stronger. However, you may have read the same article on the Bears website that eluded to that.

 

Heading into this draft, I am all for drafting OL in the 1st, even if we were to sign Gross. But rather than plan on a competition, what I think I would be looking to do is drafting an OL who (a) I believe could be a great OG and ( who potentially could play LT. If we found that player, we could start him out inside, and if Williams doesn't workout, we have a backup plan.

Above, I stated I am coming off the "bell tower". This is where I am now, under one condition. We must sign Gross. We must have someone, going into next season, we know can play the left side. So, if we sign Gross, I'm all for drafting an OG on day one. No Gross, I want an OT and OG day one and maybe a free agent OT. That would leave Williams, St. Clair, draftee and FA at OT. Knowing St. Clair can play inside makes him valuable still.

 

Hell, I would even still sign St. Clair. Think about this OL for just a moment. Williams - St. Clair - Kreutz - Otah - Gross. I like that.

Oh hell yeah! I have this mind though. (Gross, Williams, Olin, St.Clair, Oher) I'd put Gross at LT, he just made All-Pro at it. Then you groom Beekman for C, Keep Garza/Buenning as swing OG's. If one of the tackles get hurt, you simply slide the guard over. Bam! St. Clair was never out of my equation. I was talking some serious over-compensation. We must get this ONE thing right before we'll ever return to glory.

[nfoligno]

Okay, despite some of our smaller disagreements, lets focus for a moment on where we do agree.

 

Our OL must be resolved, whether that means over-compensating or not. I felt last year our OL was weak. It was simply bad, IMHO, in run blocking. Many felt it was improved in pass protection, but I always felt that had more to do w/ Orton than the OL. Now, I am reading that another key was the system. Per a Sun Times articles, we rarely (or never) had a 7 step drop last year. We basically ran 3 step drops, and when we tried even a 5 step drop, the OL was overwhelmed w/ pressure. So there is only more evidence how bad our OL truly is.

 

I want to upgrade numerous positions, but none come close to OL. While I think VERY little of our receivers, I also question how much we can expect our WRs to develop when the QB can not do more than 3 step drops. We need to protect the QB, and better open holes for Forte.

 

The only area we disagree is, I feel we need to move forward under the expectation that Williams is our LT. That doesn't mean I don't see the value of a backup plan, but simply that I feel he should be plan A. Unlike you, I simply am not sold he can play OG or RT.

 

We agree about going after Gross, though I would put him at RT. From what I have read, while he is capable of playing LT, many feel he is best at RT. Better, but similar to Tait, in that regard. Williams and Gross as our OTs, and I think we would have our bookends. Problem is, we still lack much, even w/ Gross. We still need another OT (swing) as well as two OGs.

 

I would love to get Gross, but do not see it happening. So I would be quite happy going after Carey and St. Clair both. Carey plays RT. St. Clair can play LG, and be our primary option at OT if one goes down. Further, even w/ these two players added, I would still look at OT AND OG in the draft.

 

Jason and I have screamed for ridiculous OL drafting for years. Heck, last year each of us threw out there mock drafts where we basically took OL in every round, and were only slightly joking. Our OL has been ignored for far too long, and we need to really invest in that unit, both for the present and the future.

 

I'm coming out of my "bell tower" a little on this situation. But to clarify what I said, it's if you draft the right guy. You are correct in stating some players play to high, etc... In Williams case, he relies on quickness and technique which really translates into the zone blocking our OL does. If you want a mauler/road grater, he's not your guy.

 

I actually did not say anything about him getting stronger. However, you may have read the same article on the Bears website that eluded to that.

 

Above, I stated I am coming off the "bell tower". This is where I am now, under one condition. We must sign Gross. We must have someone, going into next season, we know can play the left side. So, if we sign Gross, I'm all for drafting an OG on day one. No Gross, I want an OT and OG day one and maybe a free agent OT. That would leave Williams, St. Clair, draftee and FA at OT. Knowing St. Clair can play inside makes him valuable still.

 

Oh hell yeah! I have this mind though. (Gross, Williams, Olin, St.Clair, Oher) I'd put Gross at LT, he just made All-Pro at it. Then you groom Beekman for C, Keep Garza/Buenning as swing OG's. If one of the tackles get hurt, you simply slide the guard over. Bam! St. Clair was never out of my equation. I was talking some serious over-compensation. We must get this ONE thing right before we'll ever return to glory.

[chwtom]

Above, I stated I am coming off the "bell tower". This is where I am now, under one condition. We must sign Gross. We must have someone, going into next season, we know can play the left side. So, if we sign Gross, I'm all for drafting an OG on day one. No Gross, I want an OT and OG day one and maybe a free agent OT. That would leave Williams, St. Clair, draftee and FA at OT. Knowing St. Clair can play inside makes him valuable still.

 

But we can't sign Gross, because there is almost no chance he makes it to free agency. Second, they have to give Williams every chance in the world, because if he doesn't make it at LT, he won't make it. He is too much of a finesse player to play RT. I would love to have Gross, but (if we ignore the fact that he won't be available for a moment) we'd be paying our RT the highest OT salary in the league, because we'd have to put Gross at RT, because, again, Williams is not suited for RT.

 

Since we can't get Gross, you are saying you want and OT and OG with your first 2 picks (because there are 2 rounds on day 1), which means we won't address WR, S, QB, SLB, DE or QB with one of our top 2 picks? I'm not sure I'm on board with that.

 

The problem here is Angelo painted himself into a corner by not adding anything last year. Now we have 2 years worth of holes to fill in one off-season, and there isn't any realistic way to do it. We need a star at safety given its importance in our system, and there isn't one available in the draft (according to the experts) or FA. We need some youth to rush the passer, but it's hard to find a primo DE outside the top half of the first round. We need a fixture at RT, and we nee to start overhauling the interior of the line, because they aren't getting any push. We have zero talent at WR. Orton is a couple bad games from being benched. How Angelo could possibly address all of that in one off-season is beyond me, particularly the way he's drafted the last couple years.

[nfoligno]

Since we can't get Gross, you are saying you want and OT and OG with your first 2 picks (because there are 2 rounds on day 1), which means we won't address WR, S, QB, SLB, DE or QB with one of our top 2 picks? I'm not sure I'm on board with that.

 

The problem here is Angelo painted himself into a corner by not adding anything last year. Now we have 2 years worth of holes to fill in one off-season, and there isn't any realistic way to do it. We need a star at safety given its importance in our system, and there isn't one available in the draft (according to the experts) or FA. We need some youth to rush the passer, but it's hard to find a primo DE outside the top half of the first round. We need a fixture at RT, and we nee to start overhauling the interior of the line, because they aren't getting any push. We have zero talent at WR. Orton is a couple bad games from being benched. How Angelo could possibly address all of that in one off-season is beyond me, particularly the way he's drafted the last couple years.

 

No, we are not going to fill "all" holes in one season, but I would argue that addressing the OL may go the furthest toward that end.

 

You mention QB and WR as needs. No argument there. But if we build the OL (top two picks) might that not also upgrade our outlook at QB and WR? If the OL could actually block for more than a 3 step drop, maybe that would help Orton and the receivers. Not to mention what actual holes could do for Forte, which again, also benefits our QB and WRs. So an improved OL truly has ripple effects on the offense as a whole. While I want to upgrade at many other positions too, I am not sure anything benefits as greatly as strong push for our OL.

 

As for needs on defense, no question. But, at most positions/needs, I think we have at least some reasonable hope that improved coaching can provide improved play, where as I do not feel the same way about OL. At DL, the hope is Marinelli can improve the level of play. At CB, I think there is a combo of (a) improved health leads to improved play ( new coaching leads to improved play and © improved DL due to Marinelli, leads to improved coverage.

 

Now personally, I am not sure any of that helps our FS situation, but I am also not sold there is a difference maker at FS day one anyway.

 

So again, I go back to this. A combination of OT and OG w/ our first two picks simply may provide a greater overall benefit to the team that any other combination I think can be thrown out there.

[ChileBear]

No, we are not going to fill "all" holes in one season, but I would argue that addressing the OL may go the furthest toward that end.

 

You mention QB and WR as needs. No argument there. But if we build the OL (top two picks) might that not also upgrade our outlook at QB and WR? If the OL could actually block for more than a 3 step drop, maybe that would help Orton and the receivers. Not to mention what actual holes could do for Forte, which again, also benefits our QB and WRs. So an improved OL truly has ripple effects on the offense as a whole. While I want to upgrade at many other positions too, I am not sure anything benefits as greatly as strong push for our OL.

Agree totally. Fix the OL, then we can worry about the rest. Without a solid OL we are going to struggle every game.

[ChileBear]

Agree totally. Fix the OL, then we can worry about the rest. Without a solid OL we are going to struggle every game.

Oh, and I'm not adverse to using the first two picks on OL, if solid players are present when we're on the clock.

[jason]

Oh, and I'm not adverse to using the first two picks on OL, if solid players are present when we're on the clock.

 

*cough* *cough*

mock draft below

[nfoligno]

Kind of figured you would be in favor of the logic. Not sure about your mock right now though. While I think Duke will improve his position after workouts, his stock is really down right now, and would be a major reach w/ our 1st pick. He is not even among the top 10 OL in most any list I have seen, and several other interior OL have moved ahead of him. I would still LOVE to add him, but at this point, I question the value w/ our 1st pick.

 

You also mention Loadholt, but do you think he can play OT in the NFL. Many are projecting him as an OG, as most question whether he has the foot speed to play on the outside.

 

I think we are on the same page (going heavy OL) but I am not sure your mock matches up w/ value at this point. Right now, I am wondering if Duke might not fall to us in the 2nd. Can you imagine (though not likely) a draft where we walk away w/ both Oher and Duke? Now that would be a draft to get excited about. The only individuals I think who would be more excited than you and I are Forte and Orton.

 

*cough* *cough*

mock draft below

[defiantgiant]

The Tribune is reporting that the Bears had an "extended meeting" with Michael Oher yesterday:

 

""I think it went really well," Oher said of the meeting. "We talked for a long time. We talked about plays, technique, the things that they run up there."

 

Oher is a projected first-rounder, and the Bears own the No. 18 overall pick. Chris Williams, last year's first-round pick, is expected to start at left tackle. The uncertainty with St. Clair and the impending retirement of Tait could create an immediate hole at right tackle.

 

"I think I can play left and right," Oher said. "I can't argue about what position I want to play. I'm just glad to be getting an opportunity to play in the NFL." "

[jason]

Kind of figured you would be in favor of the logic. Not sure about your mock right now though. While I think Duke will improve his position after workouts, his stock is really down right now, and would be a major reach w/ our 1st pick. He is not even among the top 10 OL in most any list I have seen, and several other interior OL have moved ahead of him. I would still LOVE to add him, but at this point, I question the value w/ our 1st pick.

 

You also mention Loadholt, but do you think he can play OT in the NFL. Many are projecting him as an OG, as most question whether he has the foot speed to play on the outside.

 

I think we are on the same page (going heavy OL) but I am not sure your mock matches up w/ value at this point. Right now, I am wondering if Duke might not fall to us in the 2nd. Can you imagine (though not likely) a draft where we walk away w/ both Oher and Duke? Now that would be a draft to get excited about. The only individuals I think who would be more excited than you and I are Forte and Orton.

 

I haven't looked at the rising and falling stocks after I posted it originally. At the time, they fit in most mocks at that spot. As for a 1-2 of Oher and Duke, I'd pass out and miss the rest of the draft. That would be an absolute A+ draft without going any further. The Bears could literally pick exclusively from the OVC from that point forward, and the overall grade could drop no lower than a B+ in my mind. Hell, they could draft 5 straight QBs after that, and it'd be an A-.