nfoligno Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I said in another post that a player's history is also a factor. Pacman was on probation for numerous other incidents, and the trouble did not stop. So when he gets into another "incident" whether or not a DA presses charges may not mean as much as when looking at a player w/ no prior history of problems. Tell that to Pacman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Moose went from Great to bad Yes, Moose went from great to bad, but at the same time, was he ever consistently great? That is the thing that always pissed me off w/ Moose, and what pisses me off now with all the comparisons. Moose was inconsistent through his career. He would have a big year, followed by a couple very mediocre ones. We signed him off a career year, and he flopped, but I always questioned the expectations. Booker went from good to terrible Not goint to argue the terrible, but good? He had like 500 yards, one score, and one of his worst ypc averages the year prior to our signing him. How was he good. Booker was considered washed up when we signed him, and we simply took a cheap chance he had something left. He didn't. But lets not pretend he was good prior to coming to Chicago. How good could Bernard Berrian be with Indianappolis? The poor guy is rich but he's doomed to play on crappy offenses with really bad quarterbacks. No argument. Any decent WR is going to look better in a situation like Indy. At the same time, that does not mean a player from that system can not be good elsewhere. To answer your question, if we'd had Boldin & Fitz had been drafted by Chicago, they'd probably be the eqiuvalent of David Terrell & Mark Bradley right now. Yes, I'm being over-dramatic, but to answer your question, Harrison would be as useless as Booker in Chicago. Yea, I would say that is over-dramatic. Berrian had nearly 1,000 yards for us, and is no where remotely close to the talent of Fitz or Boldin. IMHO, I would look at Berrian as an example why it is not impossible for a WR to do well in Chicago. He may not have ever become the great #1 we wanted, but (a) he did develop fairly well for a 3rd round pick and ( I think few ever would have thought of him as some elite, top tier talent. If Berrian could have 1,000 yards for us, I think Boldin or Fitz could produce significantly more. But when we have ever brought in talent like Fitz or Boldin? We cry about losing Gage, Berrian or even Wade, but why do we believe we can add these later round picks and get the same results as WRs who were considered tops in their draft? Back to Harrison. I don't think anyone believes Harrison would come in and return to his glory days. Ditto w/ Holt. But the question (I don't think) is whether they could be great again, but simply whether they could improve our situation. I have a hard time understanding the logic of how they would not upgrade our WR corp, and improve our passing game. You really think we are better off w/ Davis going across the middle, rather than Harrison or Holt? Ok, Ok. I believe in miracles. I am actually finding myself agreeing with NFO. Can't remember the last time that this has happened. NFO maybe you know but I sure as heck don't. Getting to old I guess lol. The big difference that I see between us bringing in Moose and possibly bringing Marvin is that we brought in Moose to be that #1 go to guy. He has never been that #1 guy, ever. Before we signed him I remember the score was leary of him because he has only produced in contract years. Thats bad news. I hate guys like this but we gave him a try for far to long. Marvin has produced well in every year albeit in a great offense with 1 of the best QB's throwing to him. Harrison won't come in thinking that he can regain his top form. He knows that he has lost a step and he won't be counted on as being that go to guy. I believe that Hester would still be the #1 go with Marvin being a good #2 or if we get a top WR in the draft we could use Marvin as a slot receiver. Marvin has some of the best hands in the league and is not afraid of a little contact. I say go get provided it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I generally am in agreement with you guys on this one... But I could swear that early in his career, Moose was a #1 guy in Carloina. Ok, Ok. I believe in miracles. I am actually finding myself agreeing with NFO. Can't remember the last time that this has happened. NFO maybe you know but I sure as heck don't. Getting to old I guess lol. The big difference that I see between us bringing in Moose and possibly bringing Marvin is that we brought in Moose to be that #1 go to guy. He has never been that #1 guy, ever. Before we signed him I remember the score was leary of him because he has only produced in contract years. Thats bad news. I hate guys like this but we gave him a try for far to long. Marvin has produced well in every year albeit in a great offense with 1 of the best QB's throwing to him. Harrison won't come in thinking that he can regain his top form. He knows that he has lost a step and he won't be counted on as being that go to guy. I believe that Hester would still be the #1 go with Marvin being a good #2 or if we get a top WR in the draft we could use Marvin as a slot receiver. Marvin has some of the best hands in the league and is not afraid of a little contact. I say go get provided it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ostrogoth Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 NFL Network's Charley Casserly says he's not sure if Marvin Harrison will get "one offer" from a team when he is released by the Colts. Casserly observed that Harrison has lost his speed and says his best bet is to stay in Indianapolis after taking a pay cut. The Eagles have been called possible suitors, but there are younger, better free agents available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 NFL Network's Charley Casserly says he's not sure if Marvin Harrison will get "one offer" from a team when he is released by the Colts. Casserly observed that Harrison has lost his speed and says his best bet is to stay in Indianapolis after taking a pay cut. The Eagles have been called possible suitors, but there are younger, better free agents available. I heard today that Marvin has asked for his release from the Colts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 David Terrell. It wasn't that long ago. We missed on that one of course but one could question whether being in Chicago wasn't the difference between just being a "dissapointment" and being a "bust". And I still say that Terrell was one of those athletes - all too common nowadays - who is physically superior, but mentally inferior. He'd been the big man on campus since he was probably 10 years old. He gets to the Bears with swagger, does great in the first few chances he gets, and then gets put in the doghouse. It's actually a lot like this past year when I think about it. Terrell sits behind Dez White, an absolutely atrocious receiver who looked like he was holding bricks while trying to catch the football. Meanwhile, Terrell can't see the field because he's not a practice warrior. Fast forward to last year... Earl Bennett sits on the bench with an incredibly SEC pedigree. He's got soft, reliable hands, catches nearly everything, runs crisp routes, gets separation fairly well. Meanwhile, Rashied Davis runs across the middle doing his best Dez White impersonation, dropping several balls, barely getting separation, and running average routes (at best). Things never change around here with WRs. Combined with several other factors (e.g. OC, OL, cold weather, etc.) no wonder there isn't a viable WR who wants to come to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I heard today that Marvin has asked for his release from the Colts. The Colts will grant his release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 And I still say that Terrell was one of those athletes - all too common nowadays - who is physically superior, but mentally inferior. He'd been the big man on campus since he was probably 10 years old. He gets to the Bears with swagger, does great in the first few chances he gets, and then gets put in the doghouse. It's actually a lot like this past year when I think about it. Terrell sits behind Dez White, an absolutely atrocious receiver who looked like he was holding bricks while trying to catch the football. Meanwhile, Terrell can't see the field because he's not a practice warrior. Fast forward to last year... Earl Bennett sits on the bench with an incredibly SEC pedigree. He's got soft, reliable hands, catches nearly everything, runs crisp routes, gets separation fairly well. Meanwhile, Rashied Davis runs across the middle doing his best Dez White impersonation, dropping several balls, barely getting separation, and running average routes (at best). Things never change around here with WRs. Combined with several other factors (e.g. OC, OL, cold weather, etc.) no wonder there isn't a viable WR who wants to come to Chicago. I don't know Jason, you're giving Bennett one helluva a lot of credit for never having done anything. And as for your "no wonder there isn't a viable WR who wants to come to Chicago" what's that supposed to mean? Moose was thrilled to come here, Booker was happy to return, and Brandon Lloyd could have signed with any team for the minimum. If the money is right, they'll come. A better question is why WR's get worse when they arrive here. Either way, the "we really like Earl Bennett" cause is gaining momentum. I point that out since we NEVER heard it about Bazuin or Okwo. We did here it about Josh Beekman who went on to have a damn fine year. Not playing him his rookie year didn't seem to stunt his growth. Bennett seems to be the heir apparant to the #2 WR job . . . now if we could just find a #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I don't know Jason. One, some felt Terrell was a draft stud that would not even make it to our pick, but he did. Sort of makes you wonder why he began to fall. I remember the year we drafted Dez White. Most on the boards talked about how he was such a steal, but Mr. Stone hands proved otherwise, and maybe other teams were right to pass. Point is, while DT may have had the athleticism, that doesn't mean he was a sure thing stud. He is a player who excelled in college based on pure talent, but simply was not willing to put in the time or effort to take it to the next level. You can get by in college on talent alone, but talent is simply not enough in the NFL. Two, I don't think Bennett and Terrell are remotely similar situations, and frankly, I think it is insulting to Bennett to say that. According to the staff, Bennett worked his arce off in practice, but simply took time to "get it" or play up to NFL speed. Terrell was a prima dona who didn't care enough to even try during the week. He felt he was a stud, and didn't need to practice. He felt he could just show up on game days. Sorry, but I do not think there is a coach in the NFL who would accept that sort of attitude. I think you have previously been in favor of coaches like Cower, Parcells and other hard asses. You really think Terrell would have seen the field under their watch if he blew off practices? I am with you on questioning our staff for not giving Bennett more opportunites on Sunday, despite how he looked in practice, but I just think that is a totally different situation. He was putting in the effort, and working hard, according to all the sources. In Terrell, you had a player who simply didn't feel he needed practice, and being a starter on Sunday's was a God given right, not something you have to work hard to earn. And I still say that Terrell was one of those athletes - all too common nowadays - who is physically superior, but mentally inferior. He'd been the big man on campus since he was probably 10 years old. He gets to the Bears with swagger, does great in the first few chances he gets, and then gets put in the doghouse. It's actually a lot like this past year when I think about it. Terrell sits behind Dez White, an absolutely atrocious receiver who looked like he was holding bricks while trying to catch the football. Meanwhile, Terrell can't see the field because he's not a practice warrior. Fast forward to last year... Earl Bennett sits on the bench with an incredibly SEC pedigree. He's got soft, reliable hands, catches nearly everything, runs crisp routes, gets separation fairly well. Meanwhile, Rashied Davis runs across the middle doing his best Dez White impersonation, dropping several balls, barely getting separation, and running average routes (at best). Things never change around here with WRs. Combined with several other factors (e.g. OC, OL, cold weather, etc.) no wonder there isn't a viable WR who wants to come to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GakMan23 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 David Terrell dropped to us because he had a broken leg/foot cant remember which it was off the top of my head. So we took him knowing he was injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Actually, I think his prior injury was the same as Crabtree's (stress fracture). But I also think that was only part of it, as there were character and other red flags as well. David Terrell dropped to us because he had a broken leg/foot cant remember which it was off the top of my head. So we took him knowing he was injured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 It's official.... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3931695 Colts release all-pro receiver Harrison Comment Email Print Share By John Clayton ESPN.com Archive Indianapolis owner Jim Irsay scheduled a quick news conference to announce the release of one of the greatest players in Colts history -- wide receiver Marvin Harrison. Can't-Miss Play: Harrison's #2 NFL.com Video Marvin Harrison becomes the 2nd all-time receiver with his 1,102 receptions. Harrison, who is second only to Jerry Rice in career receptions with 1,102 catches, asked for his release over the weekend and was granted it on Monday. Harrison was scheduled to make $9 million this year. His release saves the team $7 million. It was a tough loss for Irsay. Harrison has been with the team since 1996. He has been to eight Pro Bowls and has been named All Pro eight times. The Colts drafted him in the first round in 1996. John Clayton is a senior writer for ESPN.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Not interested. Harrison has clearly lost a step. He will be 37 by the time the season starts. His best days are way, way behind him. I would rather get someone like Bryant Johnson and give Bennett and Riddeau more reps. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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