bradjock Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 The Sun Times and Tribune both had articles in today's paper talking about our secondary. Three things that were news: 1. Peanut Tillman is staying at cornerback (Not exactly breaking news, but it stops the rumors of him going to fs) 2. Danieal Manning is staying at nickel-back, not free safety (this is different then what Smith had said before) 3. Craig Steltz is penciled in as the starter at free safety with Payne at SS. First, this tells me our cornerback position is pretty damn strong. D Manning looked really good at nickel-back. We're hoping Vasher can return to form, and he'll be battling with Corey Graham who was pretty damn good last year. Trumaine McBride is a nice back-up & special teams guy, while Zac Beauman showed great potential in short time last year. Having 6 pretty good corners is a great luxury. Secondly, christ almighty our safety position sucks. Is anyone thrilled with Payne starting at SS??? Playing Steltz at FS is an absolute joke. And this as all we have at the position right now??? We need to sign a guy and draft another guy fairly high. The worst part is that it's not likely we'll be able to find a true free safety. Any thought on what safety we need to sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 The Sun Times and Tribune both had articles in today's paper talking about our secondary. Three things that were news: 1. Peanut Tillman is staying at cornerback (Not exactly breaking news, but it stops the rumors of him going to fs) 2. Danieal Manning is staying at nickel-back, not free safety (this is different then what Smith had said before) 3. Craig Steltz is penciled in as the starter at free safety with Payne at SS. First, this tells me our cornerback position is pretty damn strong. D Manning looked really good at nickel-back. We're hoping Vasher can return to form, and he'll be battling with Corey Graham who was pretty damn good last year. Trumaine McBride is a nice back-up & special teams guy, while Zac Beauman showed great potential in short time last year. Having 6 pretty good corners is a great luxury. Secondly, christ almighty our safety position sucks. Is anyone thrilled with Payne starting at SS??? Playing Steltz at FS is an absolute joke. And this as all we have at the position right now??? We need to sign a guy and draft another guy fairly high. The worst part is that it's not likely we'll be able to find a true free safety. Any thought on what safety we need to sign? I thought Payne looked good at SS early in the yr last yr (before he switched with Brown). You have to remember, last yr was really his first in the NFL at the position. Steltz may be penciled in but he will not start. Look for us to bring a vet in (Eugene Wilson or Will Allen were mentioned in the article). I wonder if Beauman can play FS? Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chwtom Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I thought Payne looked good at SS early in the yr last yr (before he switched with Brown). You have to remember, last yr was really his first in the NFL at the position. Steltz may be penciled in but he will not start. Look for us to bring a vet in (Eugene Wilson or Will Allen were mentioned in the article). I wonder if Beauman can play FS? Peace [/quote Gibril Wilson, Jermiane Phillips and Sean Jones are all available, and would be upgrades at either position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I thought Payne looked good at SS early in the yr last yr (before he switched with Brown). You have to remember, last yr was really his first in the NFL at the position. Steltz may be penciled in but he will not start. Look for us to bring a vet in (Eugene Wilson or Will Allen were mentioned in the article). I wonder if Beauman can play FS? Peace My thinking is our focus will be to make sure we have somone to fill Steltz's job. IMO, he's done nothing to prove he's good enough to be a starter. The thing is that all the guys mentioned, including Payne, are better at strong safety. That tells me Payne could end up as our starting Free Safety. I really don't remember much about Payne when he was playing FS, which tells me he must have done an ok job. Unlike that memory of Danieal Manning playing free safety and letting Andre Johnson run right past him for a touchdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 My thinking is our focus will be to make sure we have somone to fill Steltz's job. IMO, he's done nothing to prove he's good enough to be a starter. The thing is that all the guys mentioned, including Payne, are better at strong safety. That tells me Payne could end up as our starting Free Safety. I really don't remember much about Payne when he was playing FS, which tells me he must have done an ok job. Unlike that memory of Danieal Manning playing free safety and letting Andre Johnson run right past him for a touchdown. What I remember is that Payne is good with laying the big hit but so far thats it. He missed alot of tackles last year because he was going to lay the wood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantgiant Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 My thinking is our focus will be to make sure we have somone to fill Steltz's job. IMO, he's done nothing to prove he's good enough to be a starter. The thing is that all the guys mentioned, including Payne, are better at strong safety. That tells me Payne could end up as our starting Free Safety. I really don't remember much about Payne when he was playing FS, which tells me he must have done an ok job. Unlike that memory of Danieal Manning playing free safety and letting Andre Johnson run right past him for a touchdown. Payne's not great at free safety, either. Better than Manning, but not by much. I'd like to see Gibril Wilson signed; he can play FS, and he'd be better than anybody we've got currently. It also couldn't hurt to get a defensive back like Jairus Byrd or Sean Smith - either of them could wind up a very good free safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 we need improvements at both SS and FS but right now fs is the more important spot. im hoping for either rashad johnson in the 2nd (if hes there) or loius delmas in the late first (assuming we could trade down). as for steltz, i see him as nothing much more than maybe a decent backup and special teamer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantgiant Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 we need improvements at both SS and FS but right now fs is the more important spot. im hoping for either rashad johnson in the 2nd (if hes there) or loius delmas in the late first (assuming we could trade down). as for steltz, i see him as nothing much more than maybe a decent backup and special teamer. I'm definitely not disagreeing with the need to pick a safety in the draft, but I honestly think the best safety prospects this year are all corners. Malcolm Jenkins (not that he's likely to fall to us) would probably make an even better safety than corner. Chicago'd have to trade up for him, though. If we're going safety in the late first, I'd have Sean Smith right up there with Louis Delmas, maybe even higher. Smith has said in interviews that he'd be happy to play safety, and compares pretty favorably to a guy like Asomugha (who played safety in college.) He's big enough to lay a hit, and he used to play receiver, which shows when you check out his ball skills. He could be a phenomenal centerfielder type of safety. If we're picking a guy in the 2nd, I like Jairus Byrd better than Rashad Johnson. Byrd's more impressive physically, has great awareness and intelligence for the game, and he actually used to be listed as a safety at Oregon. He transitioned from a sort of rover position to corner, but he could definitely go back to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 our D definitely has some holes...pass rushing DE, Sam LB, and S...right now the safety position worries me the most...at least we have other guys who can adequately play those other positions, but our safety depth not only looks dire, but it is a fairly weak crop of safeties in the draft as well (not much top end talent, not much depth) I dont really like payne at SS, but i suppose we can live with him there...FS is a big time hole IMO, especially if Payne is playing strong...steltz isn't the answer and mcgowan if healthy is more of a SS too...i'm really worried about who will play FS for this team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 ...and tack in the loss of Mike Brown's leadership...and man oh man, is safety a concern! The Sun Times and Tribune both had articles in today's paper talking about our secondary. Three things that were news: 1. Peanut Tillman is staying at cornerback (Not exactly breaking news, but it stops the rumors of him going to fs) 2. Danieal Manning is staying at nickel-back, not free safety (this is different then what Smith had said before) 3. Craig Steltz is penciled in as the starter at free safety with Payne at SS. First, this tells me our cornerback position is pretty damn strong. D Manning looked really good at nickel-back. We're hoping Vasher can return to form, and he'll be battling with Corey Graham who was pretty damn good last year. Trumaine McBride is a nice back-up & special teams guy, while Zac Beauman showed great potential in short time last year. Having 6 pretty good corners is a great luxury. Secondly, christ almighty our safety position sucks. Is anyone thrilled with Payne starting at SS??? Playing Steltz at FS is an absolute joke. And this as all we have at the position right now??? We need to sign a guy and draft another guy fairly high. The worst part is that it's not likely we'll be able to find a true free safety. Any thought on what safety we need to sign? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 And from all the musings from the papers, it appears that Angelo is intent on only working from in-house... Could be asmokescreen and we'll make a bigger plash than the Fridge diving into a kiddie pool... But, our recent history makes me think we're going to do it internally... My thinking is our focus will be to make sure we have somone to fill Steltz's job. IMO, he's done nothing to prove he's good enough to be a starter. The thing is that all the guys mentioned, including Payne, are better at strong safety. That tells me Payne could end up as our starting Free Safety. I really don't remember much about Payne when he was playing FS, which tells me he must have done an ok job. Unlike that memory of Danieal Manning playing free safety and letting Andre Johnson run right past him for a touchdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 And from all the musings from the papers, it appears that Angelo is intent on only working from in-house... Could be asmokescreen and we'll make a bigger plash than the Fridge diving into a kiddie pool... But, our recent history makes me think we're going to do it internally... That's awesome Mad-lith! But I'd have to disagree with you about fixing the safety problem internally. Mainly because we have no freaking safeties!!! Payne is a fringe starter at best. Steltz???? Last year in the most important game of the season vs. Houston, they refused to let Steltz start at free safety, but chose to let Manning play nickel & FS. If we like D Manning over Steltz then, what has changed? With the lack of talent we have at the position, realistically we need to sign a starting safety and draft another one fairly high. If we don't, we'll continue to be in big trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Sorry, I must have double-clicked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Oh I hear ya bradjock! I don't trust Steltz and Payne to get it done together. I didn't Manning either. Yet this management seems to insist on those kinds of moves...or lack thereof. I think we will be in big trouble... That's awesome Mad-lith! But I'd have to disagree with you about fixing the safety problem internally. Mainly because we have no freaking safeties!!! Payne is a fringe starter at best. Steltz???? Last year in the most important game of the season vs. Houston, they refused to let Steltz start at free safety, but chose to let Manning play nickel & FS. If we like D Manning over Steltz then, what has changed? With the lack of talent we have at the position, realistically we need to sign a starting safety and draft another one fairly high. If we don't, we'll continue to be in big trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 That's awesome Mad-lith! But I'd have to disagree with you about fixing the safety problem internally. Mainly because we have no freaking safeties!!! Payne is a fringe starter at best. Steltz???? Last year in the most important game of the season vs. Houston, they refused to let Steltz start at free safety, but chose to let Manning play nickel & FS. If we like D Manning over Steltz then, what has changed? With the lack of talent we have at the position, realistically we need to sign a starting safety and draft another one fairly high. If we don't, we'll continue to be in big trouble. If I knew how to make font size bigger, I would. We must look outside the organization for safety help. JA and Lovie have to come up with a solid plan to ensure this happens. McGowan - hurt more than Mike Brown (strickly a box player) Payne - (strickly a box player) Steltz - (rated by everyone but our staff as "you guessed it" (strickly a box player) Brown - Our best safety, yet will not return. Hmm Manning - Horrible free safety and not a good tackler. (Lovie says he's staying at nickle) That leaves us with nothing at FS. I expect for us to bring one in FA and draft. Keep the other three for SS candadates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 If I knew how to make font size bigger, I would. When you click reply and the text box comes up, there are three selections at the top, "insert special item", "Veranda" (font), and "SIZE". JUST SELECT SIZE TO CHANGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clnr Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 What about Bowman as a FS candidate? He has the size and some of the scouting I read mentioned his possibilites as a FS. Sure, he's an unknown but he's on the roster and I estimate him to be ahead of only Hamilton on the depth chart at CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Showoff When you click reply and the text box comes up, there are three selections at the top, "insert special item", "Veranda" (font), and "SIZE". JUST SELECT SIZE TO CHANGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 here is my question. What are we looking for in a FS? How many times have you heard Lovie and Angelo state the safety positions are interchangable in our system? I know I want to scream everytime I hear that. Maybe their statement is true in theory. The problem, IMHO, is that such a player is very rare. We had one on Mike Brown. While not a speed guy, he was solid in both coverage and run support. The problem is, such players are rare. Most excel in one area or the other, but not so much both. I swear it is like we believe pass coverage can be easily learned, but run support can not, and thus we draft a lot of SS' expecting them to also be capable of playing FS. Besides your list, also think about Mike Green and Harris. I would argue both of those two were weak in coverage but better in run support. Hopefully our perspective has changed, but I wonder. Angelo said last year we could not count on Mike Brown, but then drafted Steltz. That is why I really want to see us add Jermaine Phillips in FA. He seems to best fit this mold, as he is a S who can play either Strong or free. Further, as he comes from TB, he would seem like an easy transition coming from the same scheme. If I knew how to make font size bigger, I would. We must look outside the organization for safety help. JA and Lovie have to come up with a solid plan to ensure this happens. McGowan - hurt more than Mike Brown (strickly a box player) Payne - (strickly a box player) Steltz - (rated by everyone but our staff as "you guessed it" (strickly a box player) Brown - Our best safety, yet will not return. Hmm Manning - Horrible free safety and not a good tackler. (Lovie says he's staying at nickle) That leaves us with nothing at FS. I expect for us to bring one in FA and draft. Keep the other three for SS candadates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I would not want to count on him this year, especially as we are not exactly strong at the strong safety position, but I would not mind if he were considered for future development at the FS position. Sign a veteran FS, and develop Bowman. That sounds a lot better than simply expecting Bowman to move to FS and start there immediatly. What about Bowman as a FS candidate? He has the size and some of the scouting I read mentioned his possibilites as a FS. Sure, he's an unknown but he's on the roster and I estimate him to be ahead of only Hamilton on the depth chart at CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clnr Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yeah, I'm not ready to pencil him in as a starter! But get your guy Phillips or Wilson in FA and get Bowman as a backup FS. That'll take the pressure of the draft to get a high round FS and we can focus on OL. And more OL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 You had me at "more OL" Frankly, I am neither for, nor against your idea. I simply have no clue how well Bowman would transition. A concern I have is, Bowman was considered to have medical issues and potentially a bit brittle for the NFL. Would a move to S not expose him in this regard more than playing CB? Yeah, I'm not ready to pencil him in as a starter! But get your guy Phillips or Wilson in FA and get Bowman as a backup FS. That'll take the pressure of the draft to get a high round FS and we can focus on OL. And more OL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clnr Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 I have no idea either, but I rather develop him as a FS than move a starter at CB to the FS position. His college injuires was a torn ACL that limited his playing time his junior and senior year IIRC. And then he tore his biceps this seasons. I consider those type of injuries are more of accidents than a sign of brittleness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brletich Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 I have no idea either, but I rather develop him as a FS than move a starter at CB to the FS position. His college injuires was a torn ACL that limited his playing time his junior and senior year IIRC. And then he tore his biceps this seasons. I consider those type of injuries are more of accidents than a sign of brittleness. We said the same thing about Mike Brown after his first 2 injuries... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 the thought of moving players to FS makes me wary we should have natural players for the position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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