Question on Michael Oher's character

[nfoligno]

Looking at CNNSI's mock draft, by Don Banks

 

Just for the record, he has us drafting OT Eban Britton, and provides the following comments,

 

John Tait's retirement puts the Bears in the market for another offensive tackle, and while the higher-rated Michael Oher remains on the board, the word is he started taking on water at the combine and will continue to sink as the scouting process continues. Teams just don't have as much patience for draft prospects with character issues as they did in the pre-Roger Goodell days.

 

He also previously stated,

 

Teams aren't as willing as they once were to look the other way for a player who has either character or medical issues attached to his name. It's a play-it-safe kind of era in the NFL, and that may really hurt a player like Andre Smith or fellow offensive tackle Michael Oher, who I've got tumbling to the second round.

 

Question I have is, what character issues is he referring to. I have seen others allude to character concerns too. From what I can tell, there are none. I realize Oher had a tough life growing up, bouncing from foster home to foster home after being put on this earth w/ a pair of crappy parents, but his early life only seems to have molded him into a solid character. Even w/ all the homes and school changes, I have read little (nothing actually) about his being a bad kid growing up or getting into trouble. More important, I have seen nothing of him having "character issues" in college. He made Dean's List as a sophmore, and seems like a very solid character.

 

So I guess I am just wondering if I am missing something, or if some writers assume anyone w/ a difficult upbringing must have questionable character.

 

I realize the character issues w/ Andre Smith, who had the well publicized bad showing at the combine, and was suspended for his bowl game after dealing w/ an agent, but I have never heard about anything having to do w/ Oher.

 

Anyone else have insight?

[madlithuanian]

...beat me to it!

 

I had no idea Oher was a "problem person" per se...

 

Looking at CNNSI's mock draft, by Don Banks

 

Just for the record, he has us drafting OT Eban Britton, and provides the following comments,

 

John Tait's retirement puts the Bears in the market for another offensive tackle, and while the higher-rated Michael Oher remains on the board, the word is he started taking on water at the combine and will continue to sink as the scouting process continues. Teams just don't have as much patience for draft prospects with character issues as they did in the pre-Roger Goodell days.

 

He also previously stated,

 

Teams aren't as willing as they once were to look the other way for a player who has either character or medical issues attached to his name. It's a play-it-safe kind of era in the NFL, and that may really hurt a player like Andre Smith or fellow offensive tackle Michael Oher, who I've got tumbling to the second round.

 

Question I have is, what character issues is he referring to. I have seen others allude to character concerns too. From what I can tell, there are none. I realize Oher had a tough life growing up, bouncing from foster home to foster home after being put on this earth w/ a pair of crappy parents, but his early life only seems to have molded him into a solid character. Even w/ all the homes and school changes, I have read little (nothing actually) about his being a bad kid growing up or getting into trouble. More important, I have seen nothing of him having "character issues" in college. He made Dean's List as a sophmore, and seems like a very solid character.

 

So I guess I am just wondering if I am missing something, or if some writers assume anyone w/ a difficult upbringing must have questionable character.

 

I realize the character issues w/ Andre Smith, who had the well publicized bad showing at the combine, and was suspended for his bowl game after dealing w/ an agent, but I have never heard about anything having to do w/ Oher.

 

Anyone else have insight?

[clnr]

From what I've read is that he doesn't have any character concerns per se. I.e no drugs, weapons, car chases etc. but that he relies a lot on his new family and he is not comfortable without them around. Basically he needs a very stable environment. Without it he won't perform as good as he has the ability to do. Speculations are that's why he somewhat underperformed at the Senior Bowl.

I don't have any links on this, but it's my understanding after reading various draft message boards.

[Wesson44]

Now that he's going to get paid it sound like a bomb waiting to go off!

[BearSox]

From what I've read is that he doesn't have any character concerns per se. I.e no drugs, weapons, car chases etc. but that he relies a lot on his new family and he is not comfortable without them around. Basically he needs a very stable environment. Without it he won't perform as good as he has the ability to do. Speculations are that's why he somewhat underperformed at the Senior Bowl.

I don't have any links on this, but it's my understanding after reading various draft message boards.

This would be my guess as well.

 

From what I've heard he's an awesome guy. High character, family guy, etc. But there have been concerns that he might blowup once he's away from his family, on his own for the first time since he was a kid, but this time with millions of dollars.

[BearSox]

From what I've read is that he doesn't have any character concerns per se. I.e no drugs, weapons, car chases etc. but that he relies a lot on his new family and he is not comfortable without them around. Basically he needs a very stable environment. Without it he won't perform as good as he has the ability to do. Speculations are that's why he somewhat underperformed at the Senior Bowl.

I don't have any links on this, but it's my understanding after reading various draft message boards.

This would be my guess as well.

 

From what I've heard he's an awesome guy. High character, family guy, etc. But there have been concerns that he might blowup once he's away from his family, on his own for the first time since he was a kid, but this time with millions of dollars.

[nfoligno]

I guess I see it a bit different.

 

Let's say we draft him, and bring him in to "our family". If you think about it, that essentially is what your team is, and you hear players talk about it all the time. Maybe it takes him a tad longer than some more outgoing players to come out of their shell, but once he does, I think you would see a level of loyalty dedication greater than in most.

 

I understand what you are saying, and "maybe" he would need a bit of extra attention at first, but in general, I see his history as a positive FAR more than a negative.

 

This would be my guess as well.

 

From what I've heard he's an awesome guy. High character, family guy, etc. But there have been concerns that he might blowup once he's away from his family, on his own for the first time since he was a kid, but this time with millions of dollars.

[defiantgiant]

I guess I see it a bit different.

 

Let's say we draft him, and bring him in to "our family". If you think about it, that essentially is what your team is, and you hear players talk about it all the time. Maybe it takes him a tad longer than some more outgoing players to come out of their shell, but once he does, I think you would see a level of loyalty dedication greater than in most.

 

I understand what you are saying, and "maybe" he would need a bit of extra attention at first, but in general, I see his history as a positive FAR more than a negative.

 

I don't know, from reading Oher's story, it sounds like his dependence on his family might run a fair bit deeper than that. What you suggest might work in a Jim Zorn - Steve Largent type of situation, where he really is spending most of his free time with his teammates, in addition to practice and everything. Hard to say, though.

[chwtom]

I don't know, from reading Oher's story, it sounds like his dependence on his family might run a fair bit deeper than that. What you suggest might work in a Jim Zorn - Steve Largent type of situation, where he really is spending most of his free time with his teammates, in addition to practice and everything. Hard to say, though.

 

I am basing this off the book "The Blind Side" which most of you probably know is based on Oher. Any concerns about Oher are likely related to his work ethic and dedication to the game, rather than to him being a bad kid. The book paints him as senstive and loyal, but maybe not very tough. I got from the book that he isn't necessarily very self-motivated and driven, that he depends a bit on his family and others for that.

 

My concern with him wouldn't be so much that he got into trouble, it would be that he didn't work hard enough or committ to his team enough, and that he wouldn't be able to socially mix with the other players.

[nfoligno]

Well, something I heard Oher say that gives some insight, I think.

 

He said that last year he heard many question his toughness. This didn't come from coaches or players, but just what he read and/or heard from scouts last year. Anyway, he said he really committed to the weight room in the last offseason, and took it as a mission in this last season to show how tough he can be. Said he tried to show the fire and "mean streak" he felt many wanted. Now, you can decide whether he pulled that off or not, but he felt he did.

 

My point? I am just not sure I can buy into questions of committment or work ethic. Honestly, I think this is just another case of over-evaluation. The longer you have to evaluate a player, the more things you find to pick at, and as he was thought to enter the draft last year, there has been a lot of time to pick.

 

If that he is a devoute family guy is the worst thing about him, I think I can handle that.

 

I am basing this off the book "The Blind Side" which most of you probably know is based on Oher. Any concerns about Oher are likely related to his work ethic and dedication to the game, rather than to him being a bad kid. The book paints him as senstive and loyal, but maybe not very tough. I got from the book that he isn't necessarily very self-motivated and driven, that he depends a bit on his family and others for that.

 

My concern with him wouldn't be so much that he got into trouble, it would be that he didn't work hard enough or committ to his team enough, and that he wouldn't be able to socially mix with the other players.

[chwtom]

Well, something I heard Oher say that gives some insight, I think.

 

He said that last year he heard many question his toughness. This didn't come from coaches or players, but just what he read and/or heard from scouts last year. Anyway, he said he really committed to the weight room in the last offseason, and took it as a mission in this last season to show how tough he can be. Said he tried to show the fire and "mean streak" he felt many wanted. Now, you can decide whether he pulled that off or not, but he felt he did.

 

My point? I am just not sure I can buy into questions of committment or work ethic. Honestly, I think this is just another case of over-evaluation. The longer you have to evaluate a player, the more things you find to pick at, and as he was thought to enter the draft last year, there has been a lot of time to pick.

 

If that he is a devoute family guy is the worst thing about him, I think I can handle that.

 

As far as devoting himself to the weight room, not sure his bench press reps agree with that. He only repped 21 times, which is less than some WRs, DBs and even a kicker. People say it's because of his long arms, but I don'y buy that. Plenty of big LTs have done way better than 21 reps. you need to be strong to play RT, and he hasn't proven to me that he can do more than be a finesse LT, and we already have one of those.

 

Last, do we want a guy who waited until his senior year of college to dedicate himself? I'd rather draft guys that are high-motor, self-driven, so we won't have to worry about them going soft once they get paid.

[BearSox]

I personally don't think there is much to this, but come draft time, every little thing will be critiqued. I hope however that if he is there at 18 with no other options, that we take him.

[nfoligno]

Hold the phone. He didn't wait until his senior year to dedicate himself. He tried to take him game to another level, but that doesn't imply he lacked dedication prior. As I recall, he was consdiered a likely top 10 pick if he came out last year. Doesn't sound like a lack of dedication.

 

I swear. To me, this just seems to happen all the time. Oher was all but in the last draft. Right up until deadline, it was thought he would be in the draft, but then choose to stay in school. Well, for the longest time, he was among those getting evaluated and everything. Now he has been under the microscope for the last year. As so many GMs talk about. Over-evaluation. I mean, we are knocking him because he is too tight w/ his family? You have got to me shitting me. We have reach new levels of reaching to find reasons to knock a guy.

 

 

 

As far as devoting himself to the weight room, not sure his bench press reps agree with that. He only repped 21 times, which is less than some WRs, DBs and even a kicker. People say it's because of his long arms, but I don'y buy that. Plenty of big LTs have done way better than 21 reps. you need to be strong to play RT, and he hasn't proven to me that he can do more than be a finesse LT, and we already have one of those.

 

Last, do we want a guy who waited until his senior year of college to dedicate himself? I'd rather draft guys that are high-motor, self-driven, so we won't have to worry about them going soft once they get paid.

[nfoligno]

Exactly. I remember a GM (can't recall who) who talked about how teams, scouts, and especially media, evaluate w/ over-evaluation. Basically, the draft has become such a big thing that we spend 24/7 talking about it for months, and player who look elite during the season somehow begin to fall for this reason or that in the offseason.

 

His wonderlick was lower than average, thus he must not be smart enough to read a playbook, despite seeming to have a great grasp of the book in college.

 

Another guy was so fast in college that he was considered untouchable. Yet after a weaker than expected 40, he suddenly drops a round.

 

Yet another guy mauls everyone in front of him, but after not benching 30 reps, he is suddenly weak.

 

Now, a player is too tight w/ his family, so he won't be able to handle the NFL.

 

Sorry, but it just blows me away every year the reasons players rise and fall. I understand some red flags, but others just seem laughable.

 

I personally don't think there is much to this, but come draft time, every little thing will be critiqued. I hope however that if he is there at 18 with no other options, that we take him.

[chwtom]

Hold the phone. He didn't wait until his senior year to dedicate himself. He tried to take him game to another level, but that doesn't imply he lacked dedication prior. As I recall, he was consdiered a likely top 10 pick if he came out last year. Doesn't sound like a lack of dedication.

 

I swear. To me, this just seems to happen all the time. Oher was all but in the last draft. Right up until deadline, it was thought he would be in the draft, but then choose to stay in school. Well, for the longest time, he was among those getting evaluated and everything. Now he has been under the microscope for the last year. As so many GMs talk about. Over-evaluation. I mean, we are knocking him because he is too tight w/ his family? You have got to me shitting me. We have reach new levels of reaching to find reasons to knock a guy.

 

When did I knock him for being too tight with his family? You are making a straw man argument. He isn't as strong as the other top OTs. We want a RT, and we are in a run-first system, so one of our top priorities should be finding a guy strong enough to blow people off the line. I read the book on him--did you? If you read the book, you would have legitimate concerns about how much of his dedication to the game comes from within, and how much comes from his family. You would wonder if this is the kind of guy would would just up and quit the game one day. Couple that with his disappointing bench press numbers (which are a reflection, among other things, of how hard a guy has been working in the weight room, and I don't want him as my new RT.

 

There's a reason he's slipping to a second round grade on some people's draft boards, and it's not because he's too tight with his family.

 

Get off your soapbox.

[nfoligno]

Didn't realize I was on a soapbox.

 

One. We have a run 1st system? Really? Seems like we pass the ball considerably more than we run it. Also, even if we did run it more, we are not a power run team, nor do we have that style of blocking. We use (despite my wishes) a drop step technique which emphasizes athleticism FAR MORE than pure strength. As much as I like maulers, they don't really fit our system/technique.

 

Two. I never called you out specifically. I was talking FAR MORE in general.

 

Three. So much is being made of his bench press, but I think some are assuming everyone is throwing up like 30 reps or something, but that isn't the case. Monroe, who is considered a top 5 pick, had 23. Britton, also considered a 1st round pick, only had 24. Andre Smith choose not to even participate. So of the top 5 OTs, only Jason Smith showed power, if you consider the bench a true test of power. Does that mean Britton and Monroe are also weak?

 

And that is sort of my point. Oher sure didn't seem to lack power on the field, and particularly this past year, many said he really stepped up the power aspect of his game. But he doesn't have a good bench rep at the combine, and suddenly is isn't considered strong enough. But again, lets not pretend the other top 5 OTs (minus Jason Smith) did so much better.

 

As for his book, no, I didn't read it. But I am still just not buying it. Crap, I remember similar questions about Derrick Rose (Chicago Bulls). He was so close w/ his family, how would he do in the NBA and after getting "paid". Yea, sure glad Chicago didn't buy too much into all that.

 

Also not sure many feel, as you say, that he is falling into the 2nd round. A small handfull may say that, but few I have seen have him falling beyond the mid to early 20s of the 1st round.

 

When did I knock him for being too tight with his family? You are making a straw man argument. He isn't as strong as the other top OTs. We want a RT, and we are in a run-first system, so one of our top priorities should be finding a guy strong enough to blow people off the line. I read the book on him--did you? If you read the book, you would have legitimate concerns about how much of his dedication to the game comes from within, and how much comes from his family. You would wonder if this is the kind of guy would would just up and quit the game one day. Couple that with his disappointing bench press numbers (which are a reflection, among other things, of how hard a guy has been working in the weight room, and I don't want him as my new RT.

 

There's a reason he's slipping to a second round grade on some people's draft boards, and it's not because he's too tight with his family.

 

Get off your soapbox.

[azbearsfan]

Didn't realize I was on a soapbox.

 

One. We have a run 1st system? Really? Seems like we pass the ball considerably more than we run it. Also, even if we did run it more, we are not a power run team, nor do we have that style of blocking. We use (despite my wishes) a drop step technique which emphasizes athleticism FAR MORE than pure strength. As much as I like maulers, they don't really fit our system/technique.

 

Two. I never called you out specifically. I was talking FAR MORE in general.

 

Three. So much is being made of his bench press, but I think some are assuming everyone is throwing up like 30 reps or something, but that isn't the case. Monroe, who is considered a top 5 pick, had 23. Britton, also considered a 1st round pick, only had 24. Andre Smith choose not to even participate. So of the top 5 OTs, only Jason Smith showed power, if you consider the bench a true test of power. Does that mean Britton and Monroe are also weak?

 

And that is sort of my point. Oher sure didn't seem to lack power on the field, and particularly this past year, many said he really stepped up the power aspect of his game. But he doesn't have a good bench rep at the combine, and suddenly is isn't considered strong enough. But again, lets not pretend the other top 5 OTs (minus Jason Smith) did so much better.

 

As for his book, no, I didn't read it. But I am still just not buying it. Crap, I remember similar questions about Derrick Rose (Chicago Bulls). He was so close w/ his family, how would he do in the NBA and after getting "paid". Yea, sure glad Chicago didn't buy too much into all that.

 

Also not sure many feel, as you say, that he is falling into the 2nd round. A small handfull may say that, but few I have seen have him falling beyond the mid to early 20s of the 1st round.

 

 

 

Why did it him reading the press clippings to make him "prove" his toughness?

 

 

Maybe you should read the book, nfo.

 

Seems that people who have read it seem to have these concerns.

[nfoligno]

Why did it him reading the press clippings to make him "prove" his toughness?

 

Through his junior season, he got the job done w/ athleticism more than pure power. Whether press clipping or whatever, he felt the need to prove he could play w/ power as well as athleticism, and from what I have read, did just that this past season. It isn't like players are instantly polished or start out as finished products. They are works in progress, and in his senior season, he took his game to another level. Sorry, but I fail to see how this is a negative.

 

If a RB makes a huge effort to improve, for example, his pass blocking in his senior season, and appears sucessful, is that somehow a negative?

 

Maybe you should read the book, nfo.

 

Seems that people who have read it seem to have these concerns.

 

One, I would bet you money many who are throwing out some of these concerns have never read his book.

 

Two, I just don't think it matters. I have always believed there is a level of over-evaluation in the process, and have talked about it before. It kills me when you have a (for example) RB who few could catch in college, yet he doesn't run a great 40 on a track, and is then considered slow. Ditto when you have an OT that can maul his opponents, but suddenly after a less than stellar bench, he is weak. Not just Oher, but how about Monroe, who had only 2 more reps than Oher. I don't think Monroe lacks power just because he only had 23 bench reps.

 

Alternatively, I am also hessitant to jump on the bandwagon of players who see their stock soar in the offseason due to similar. A RB that never looked special in college, yet runs a great 40, suddenly finds himself the talk of the town. Many talk about the workout warriors and how ridiculous it is when their draft stock soars because of it, but I think there is also a similar opposite effect.

[azbearsfan]

Why did it him reading the press clippings to make him "prove" his toughness?

 

Through his junior season, he got the job done w/ athleticism more than pure power. Whether press clipping or whatever, he felt the need to prove he could play w/ power as well as athleticism, and from what I have read, did just that this past season. It isn't like players are instantly polished or start out as finished products. They are works in progress, and in his senior season, he took his game to another level. Sorry, but I fail to see how this is a negative.

 

If a RB makes a huge effort to improve, for example, his pass blocking in his senior season, and appears sucessful, is that somehow a negative?

 

Maybe you should read the book, nfo.

 

Seems that people who have read it seem to have these concerns.

 

One, I would bet you money many who are throwing out some of these concerns have never read his book.

 

Two, I just don't think it matters. I have always believed there is a level of over-evaluation in the process, and have talked about it before. It kills me when you have a (for example) RB who few could catch in college, yet he doesn't run a great 40 on a track, and is then considered slow. Ditto when you have an OT that can maul his opponents, but suddenly after a less than stellar bench, he is weak. Not just Oher, but how about Monroe, who had only 2 more reps than Oher. I don't think Monroe lacks power just because he only had 23 bench reps.

 

Alternatively, I am also hessitant to jump on the bandwagon of players who see their stock soar in the offseason due to similar. A RB that never looked special in college, yet runs a great 40, suddenly finds himself the talk of the town. Many talk about the workout warriors and how ridiculous it is when their draft stock soars because of it, but I think there is also a similar opposite effect.

 

 

I just have a hard time with people who are too codependant like the reports are. It screams of not being mentally tough. So the question would be, the first time Jared Allen blows by him and kills KO then starts telling Oher about it, is he gonna pull the "I'm homesick" card. At this point IDK, but it does raise the concern. Then again it could be like you say. But I think it is something to consider in the whole equation.

[madlithuanian]

May I suggest moving his family to Chicago? I'm sure he could afford a nice house for them!

 

I'm a bit with nfo here...

 

There are character issues and then there's life.

 

If this were Mike Tyson, I'd be a bit worried. This guy is not Mike Tyson. If he had arrests, hanging out with bad people, poor practice habits,etc...I'd pass. But from what I've read, those aren't issues. So he's a mama's boy...so was Otis Wilson!

 

 

 

 

I just have a hard time with people who are too codependant like the reports are. It screams of not being mentally tough. So the question would be, the first time Jared Allen blows by him and kills KO then starts telling Oher about it, is he gonna pull the "I'm homesick" card. At this point IDK, but it does raise the concern. Then again it could be like you say. But I think it is something to consider in the whole equation.

[azbearsfan]

May I suggest moving his family to Chicago? I'm sure he could afford a nice house for them!

 

I'm a bit with nfo here...

 

There are character issues and then there's life.

 

If this were Mike Tyson, I'd be a bit worried. This guy is not Mike Tyson. If he had arrests, hanging out with bad people, poor practice habits,etc...I'd pass. But from what I've read, those aren't issues. So he's a mama's boy...so was Otis Wilson!

 

 

You're with nfo here?

 

Thats weird.

 

I'm not saying dont draft him. But in the whole equation, I think it is a legitamate thing to look at.

 

Have you read the book, Mad?

[chwtom]

NFO started this topic to ask if anyone had insight on why there are character questions about this guy.

 

Character has more to do with whether or not you get in trouble with the law. It also, to me, has something to do with work ethic and giving every ounce of effort in whatever you do. Oher has had only one incident, to my knowledge, where he got in trouble. It is discussed in the book that he got into a fight with another player and accidentally hurt a little kid.

 

But the description of him in the book is that he is withdrawn, has difficulty starting relationships, he is slow to learn, he never had a true love for football (he wanted to be Michael Jordan and play basketball), and he always had lots of talent, but has been pretty raw and never put everything together consistently. Those are some pretty big concerns for a guy you are considering paying 10-20 million dollars and banking the success of your football team.

 

I don't understand why NFO would ask for insight about the guy, then tear down what people who have read about the kid have to say as laughable and over-analysis, and just another example of reading too much into combine numbers. First, I don't see how you could possibly over-analyze a first round draft pick. A team that consistently fails in the first round is not likely to be successful, and there is a giant pile of money involved. Second, this guy had these concerns about him before the combine. If there is a hint from one of his combine numbers (the bench press) that this guy has not been putting in the hours in the weight room, than that reinforces those concerns. NFL lineman need to give 100% effort on every play, or they are going to be out of the league quick. If a tackle takes off 2 or 3 plays a game, he'll get his qb killed.

 

He might come into the league and do a very good job, but I can almost guarantee it won't be as a RT (which is our need), and it might not be at LT. I highly doubt this guy is going to be a premier tackle in the NFL, as he just doesn't seem to have the required passion and dedication to give 100% on every play, and constantly work to get better. I could be wrong, but if you haven't read the book on him (which I'd recommend), than I don't see how you can argue about the kind of person/player he is.

[madlithuanian]

It happens once in a blue moon...usually on those months that don't end with 30 or 31 days.

 

Oh I agree, it's certainly worth looking at. No stone should be left unturned. And if the real answer is that it's a red flag, I'm more than OK moving on...at least in the first round.

 

No, I haven't. It honestly doesn't interest me all that much... As I have many other books I've been trying to read that have been collecting dust.

 

But, here's some cheap info on it from the non-so-reliable wiki...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oher

 

You're with nfo here?

 

Thats weird.

 

I'm not saying dont draft him. But in the whole equation, I think it is a legitamate thing to look at.

 

Have you read the book, Mad?

[nfoligno]

Yea, I too agree you look at it. When you risk as much as a draft pick, especially in the 1st, you look and consider everything.

 

My two things in this discussion are:

 

1. I have read some refer to Oher and follow up by saying he has character issues or similar red flags. While his relationship to family may be tigher than others, I just question the talk of his having character issues, or lumping him w/ such high level characterizations as to put him w/ players who truly have character issues.

 

2. I have had issue w/ the idea that, because he didn't do well in the bench, he doesn't have the power to play.

 

It happens once in a blue moon...usually on those months that don't end with 30 or 31 days.

 

Oh I agree, it's certainly worth looking at. No stone should be left unturned. And if the real answer is that it's a red flag, I'm more than OK moving on...at least in the first round.

 

No, I haven't. It honestly doesn't interest me all that much... As I have many other books I've been trying to read that have been collecting dust.

 

But, here's some cheap info on it from the non-so-reliable wiki...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Oher

[nfoligno]

1. Your right. I asked why some might say he had character issues or red flags. I then questioned the answer. But did the thread/discussion have to end w/ the answer. Is there some reason we can not discuss Oher, his character, and prospects?

 

2. One issue I have is, many (like myself 24 hours ago) are not aware what some might talk about when saying he has character issues. I had a discussion w/ someone the other day that said he would be a bad pick because he heart Oher was a bad guy and had all these red flags. He had no idea what the discussion about Oher was, but simply that he read he had character issues.

 

Hell, look at my original post and why this all started. Don Banks indicates Oher is falling, and follows that up by saying teams don't have the patience for players as they did in pre-Goddell days. Does that not give you the impression of more than being to close to family? Referncing Goddess implies a player who will get into trouble. I don't think you have even indicated Oher is likely to cause trouble or get on the wrong side of the law, but that sure was an implication in Banks comments.

 

3. I do think you can over-analyize a prospect, and would argue many GMs and scouts say the same. If you look hard and long enough, you will find problems. No one is perfect, and thus everyone has flaws. If you continue to look hard at those flaws, they become magnified. By draft day, what really is nothing big seems huge because you have focused on it too much. That is what i mean.

 

4. You say there were concerns prior to the combine, but that is partially my point. I really didn't hear these concerns until more recently. The book didn't suddenly come out, so why did the "concerns" seem to? You seem to put a ton of stock in the combine. I don't. I put stock in what the player does on the field. I don't think he showed a lack of committment or dedication on the field. You say you read the book, and that makes you think he won't give 100%. I argue what he did on the field in college makes that leap in logic questionable.

 

5. Okay, so you read the book. In the book, does it talk about how he took off plays in college, or didn't give 100%. Everything I have read about his college career would point to the opposite. In my eyes, he worked his tail off. Not only did he work hard in football, becoming one of the nation's elite LTs, but also in the classroom as he made Dean's list his sophmore year. That just doesn't sound like a guy who lacks dedication.

 

NFO started this topic to ask if anyone had insight on why there are character questions about this guy.

 

Character has more to do with whether or not you get in trouble with the law. It also, to me, has something to do with work ethic and giving every ounce of effort in whatever you do. Oher has had only one incident, to my knowledge, where he got in trouble. It is discussed in the book that he got into a fight with another player and accidentally hurt a little kid.

 

But the description of him in the book is that he is withdrawn, has difficulty starting relationships, he is slow to learn, he never had a true love for football (he wanted to be Michael Jordan and play basketball), and he always had lots of talent, but has been pretty raw and never put everything together consistently. Those are some pretty big concerns for a guy you are considering paying 10-20 million dollars and banking the success of your football team.

 

I don't understand why NFO would ask for insight about the guy, then tear down what people who have read about the kid have to say as laughable and over-analysis, and just another example of reading too much into combine numbers. First, I don't see how you could possibly over-analyze a first round draft pick. A team that consistently fails in the first round is not likely to be successful, and there is a giant pile of money involved. Second, this guy had these concerns about him before the combine. If there is a hint from one of his combine numbers (the bench press) that this guy has not been putting in the hours in the weight room, than that reinforces those concerns. NFL lineman need to give 100% effort on every play, or they are going to be out of the league quick. If a tackle takes off 2 or 3 plays a game, he'll get his qb killed.

 

He might come into the league and do a very good job, but I can almost guarantee it won't be as a RT (which is our need), and it might not be at LT. I highly doubt this guy is going to be a premier tackle in the NFL, as he just doesn't seem to have the required passion and dedication to give 100% on every play, and constantly work to get better. I could be wrong, but if you haven't read the book on him (which I'd recommend), than I don't see how you can argue about the kind of person/player he is.