Are we so sure the Bears aren't still cheap?

[madlithuanian]

I just got off the phone with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan from Moving The Chains. A few callers before a guy named Super Bowl Shuffle was talking to them about the criticisms Jerry Angelo receives. They said that Jerry told them there was a situation happening he couldnt do anything about because of a lack of cash. Ha wasn't given permission to spend the cash needed to make a move he said, quoting the hosts, "made him sick in the stomach." Saying that it was something they could really have use to help the team. Not sure if this is about Cutler, Cassel, Houshmanzadeh or possibley an OL. It sounds as though he is frsutrated by it and said that his comments about Craig Steltz are more about the fact that he is all they have so he cant say they dont have any options.

 

In my call I said about how I keep hearing how all these Chicago Bears guys are moving on and breaking out and they both said, name one. I said well i hear how Justin Gage would be our best WR and they laughed as I said he couldnt catch a cold in Chicago. Then I said about how Marc Colombo couldnt walk barely when we released him and that he in currently one of the top 2 liabilities on the Dallas starting lineup and they agreed.

 

When asked about Kevin Jones, Tim Ryan said that he think they should bring him back but contractually it should be based off of last year with some incentives. He also said that he thinks Adrian can play and is stellar as a ST player but they dont seem sold on playing him at RB, which I agrees with. He said he is convinced Jerry and Lovie want Garrett Wolfe to play this year.

 

As for why Jerry sugarcoats things so much they said they think that his restrictions in terms of what he is given annually to spend on free agents, makes them rely on draftees. They have to exhaust every draft pick because they cant afford to replace them with FA. They explained that Jerry ran the drafts in Tampa and got Chicago to a SB so he has credentials, he came to Chicago with them but that missing on some draft picks really hurt since they financially have to stick with them.

 

I didnt get to ask anything about the McCaskey family. But the assumption on their wealth compared to other owners is that they inherited a charter franchise and their family income is almost 100% the Chicago Bears. Down in Dallas and in Washington those teams are run by billionaires, so they have the actual cash to backup these signings while we are living off of ticket sales and such things. So to make a contract with $10 million bonus is harder for us than for different situations. Now thats something I have known for a while but I also am not sold that we are not willing to spend money. I just think the amount we spent last year in bonuses, is exactly why we werent active last year or this year.

 

Just wanted to put that out there. The way it sounded there was some info they got straight from Jerry that they wouldnt discuss. They talk to alot of people and some info they are given with some trust so they wouldnt violate that. But it did interest me that JA was turned down on a major move he wanted to make.

 

 

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[madlithuanian]

I'm not 100% sure on the reliability of this...but dang, if there's truth in it, it is really depressing.

 

I still can't lay off Angelo though. As long as he accepts the paycheck, he needs to accept the blame too.

[chwtom]

I just got off the phone with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan from Moving The Chains. A few callers before a guy named Super Bowl Shuffle was talking to them about the criticisms Jerry Angelo receives. They said that Jerry told them there was a situation happening he couldnt do anything about because of a lack of cash. Ha wasn't given permission to spend the cash needed to make a move he said, quoting the hosts, "made him sick in the stomach." Saying that it was something they could really have use to help the team. Not sure if this is about Cutler, Cassel, Houshmanzadeh or possibley an OL. It sounds as though he is frsutrated by it and said that his comments about Craig Steltz are more about the fact that he is all they have so he cant say they dont have any options.

 

In my call I said about how I keep hearing how all these Chicago Bears guys are moving on and breaking out and they both said, name one. I said well i hear how Justin Gage would be our best WR and they laughed as I said he couldnt catch a cold in Chicago. Then I said about how Marc Colombo couldnt walk barely when we released him and that he in currently one of the top 2 liabilities on the Dallas starting lineup and they agreed.

 

When asked about Kevin Jones, Tim Ryan said that he think they should bring him back but contractually it should be based off of last year with some incentives. He also said that he thinks Adrian can play and is stellar as a ST player but they dont seem sold on playing him at RB, which I agrees with. He said he is convinced Jerry and Lovie want Garrett Wolfe to play this year.

 

As for why Jerry sugarcoats things so much they said they think that his restrictions in terms of what he is given annually to spend on free agents, makes them rely on draftees. They have to exhaust every draft pick because they cant afford to replace them with FA. They explained that Jerry ran the drafts in Tampa and got Chicago to a SB so he has credentials, he came to Chicago with them but that missing on some draft picks really hurt since they financially have to stick with them.

 

I didnt get to ask anything about the McCaskey family. But the assumption on their wealth compared to other owners is that they inherited a charter franchise and their family income is almost 100% the Chicago Bears. Down in Dallas and in Washington those teams are run by billionaires, so they have the actual cash to backup these signings while we are living off of ticket sales and such things. So to make a contract with $10 million bonus is harder for us than for different situations. Now thats something I have known for a while but I also am not sold that we are not willing to spend money. I just think the amount we spent last year in bonuses, is exactly why we werent active last year or this year.

 

Just wanted to put that out there. The way it sounded there was some info they got straight from Jerry that they wouldnt discuss. They talk to alot of people and some info they are given with some trust so they wouldnt violate that. But it did interest me that JA was turned down on a major move he wanted to make.

 

 

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That sucks. Sometimes I hate being a Bears fan.

 

I wonder what the major move was? My first guess is Warner, based on how much he talked about the qb position in December, and the lack of other free agent QBs. Second guess is Housh.

[madlithuanian]

I sure would like to know.

 

I still don't know if this is a legit post...but dang...seems too possible.

 

That sucks. Sometimes I hate being a Bears fan.

 

I wonder what the major move was? My first guess is Warner, based on how much he talked about the qb position in December, and the lack of other free agent QBs. Second guess is Housh.

[AZ54]

After all we spent on our own players last year I'm not buying it. We might have problems in revenue going forward due to the economy but I'm not going to fault Bears ownership over that. There are many owners of pro sports teams who are cutting back now. I will add that the cap has expanded at such a rate that certainly owners like the Bears will have trouble keeping up with the Snyder's of the world. Yet spending money hasn't translated to wins. New England and Pittsburgh have been called cheap for years and they win year after year. Washington has spent tons and they lose. Maybe if there's a lesson here it's that money spent on draft evaluation is worth far more than money spent on FA.

[chwtom]

After all we spent on our own players last year I'm not buying it. We might have problems in revenue going forward due to the economy but I'm not going to fault Bears ownership over that. There are many owners of pro sports teams who are cutting back now. I will add that the cap has expanded at such a rate that certainly owners like the Bears will have trouble keeping up with the Snyder's of the world. Yet spending money hasn't translated to wins. New England and Pittsburgh have been called cheap for years and they win year after year. Washington has spent tons and they lose. Maybe if there's a lesson here it's that money spent on draft evaluation is worth far more than money spent on FA.

 

Not to be argumentative, but did you read the article, or just the title? Because the point of the article seemed not so much to be complaining that the Bears were cheap and that it is stupid not the spend money, it is the revelation that Angelo is being hamstrung THIS year by financial restraints from above. Not every year, this year. Your response didn't seem to haev anything to do with the gyst of the article.

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but find a tad much of this questionable.

 

One. Per these two, Angelo flat out said the owners won't let him spend money. Does anyone realize how big of a statement this would be? This is the sort of statement that gets a guy fired, and one that really rubs the other owners wrong. Who wants to hire a guy who has previously called out his ownership? Maybe it is the truth, but it just seems odd Angelo would tell such a thing to these guys.

 

Two. They indicate Angelo is restricted on how much he is allowed to spend annually, but have they seen the money Angelo has spent? Whether it is signing our own to huge deals, or adding veterans like Wale, Tait, Moose and others, or even in failed deals like when we offered Kearse $20m SB, it just doesn't seem like Angelo's hands are as tied as they act like.

 

Three. Jerry "ran the drafts" in TB. I would bet that is news to McKay, the TB GM. Did Angelo play a big role. Most likely. But to say he ran the drafts makes it sound as if he were the GM, when he was just the Director of player personnel (or whatever the title is).

 

Four. "missed on some draft picks"? "Some"? Sounding more and more like they are a pair of Angelo apologists. They talk about his coming to Chicago w/ Cred, but that seems a stretch. They act like he just missed on a couple picks, and then say cheap ownership is why he has to stick w/ them. They sound to me like Angelo apologists who are using ownership to excuse the poor job Angelo has done.

 

I just got off the phone with Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwan from Moving The Chains. A few callers before a guy named Super Bowl Shuffle was talking to them about the criticisms Jerry Angelo receives. They said that Jerry told them there was a situation happening he couldnt do anything about because of a lack of cash. Ha wasn't given permission to spend the cash needed to make a move he said, quoting the hosts, "made him sick in the stomach." Saying that it was something they could really have use to help the team. Not sure if this is about Cutler, Cassel, Houshmanzadeh or possibley an OL. It sounds as though he is frsutrated by it and said that his comments about Craig Steltz are more about the fact that he is all they have so he cant say they dont have any options.

 

In my call I said about how I keep hearing how all these Chicago Bears guys are moving on and breaking out and they both said, name one. I said well i hear how Justin Gage would be our best WR and they laughed as I said he couldnt catch a cold in Chicago. Then I said about how Marc Colombo couldnt walk barely when we released him and that he in currently one of the top 2 liabilities on the Dallas starting lineup and they agreed.

 

When asked about Kevin Jones, Tim Ryan said that he think they should bring him back but contractually it should be based off of last year with some incentives. He also said that he thinks Adrian can play and is stellar as a ST player but they dont seem sold on playing him at RB, which I agrees with. He said he is convinced Jerry and Lovie want Garrett Wolfe to play this year.

 

As for why Jerry sugarcoats things so much they said they think that his restrictions in terms of what he is given annually to spend on free agents, makes them rely on draftees. They have to exhaust every draft pick because they cant afford to replace them with FA. They explained that Jerry ran the drafts in Tampa and got Chicago to a SB so he has credentials, he came to Chicago with them but that missing on some draft picks really hurt since they financially have to stick with them.

 

I didnt get to ask anything about the McCaskey family. But the assumption on their wealth compared to other owners is that they inherited a charter franchise and their family income is almost 100% the Chicago Bears. Down in Dallas and in Washington those teams are run by billionaires, so they have the actual cash to backup these signings while we are living off of ticket sales and such things. So to make a contract with $10 million bonus is harder for us than for different situations. Now thats something I have known for a while but I also am not sold that we are not willing to spend money. I just think the amount we spent last year in bonuses, is exactly why we werent active last year or this year.

 

Just wanted to put that out there. The way it sounded there was some info they got straight from Jerry that they wouldnt discuss. They talk to alot of people and some info they are given with some trust so they wouldnt violate that. But it did interest me that JA was turned down on a major move he wanted to make.

 

 

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[nfoligno]

Maybe you should re-read.

 

First, it is a poster talking about what some guys on the radio said, as opposed to an article, which you talk about.

 

Second, toward the end, it is said that, "they said they think that his restrictions in terms of what he is given annually to spend on free agents, makes them rely on draftees. They have to exhaust every draft pick because they cant afford to replace them with FA."

 

That comment deals w/ more than one year and says this current off-season is simply a continued example of how the rest have been.

 

Not to be argumentative, but did you read the article, or just the title? Because the point of the article seemed not so much to be complaining that the Bears were cheap and that it is stupid not the spend money, it is the revelation that Angelo is being hamstrung THIS year by financial restraints from above. Not every year, this year. Your response didn't seem to haev anything to do with the gyst of the article.

[madlithuanian]

No doudt, hence my scepticism...

 

http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?...art=#entry59534

 

This could very well be complete BS. I'd like to see something else come of this. Odds are it can't slip through all media...even PFT.

 

For now, I'm taking it with a grain of salt. And it's too salty.

 

 

Sorry, but find a tad much of this questionable.

 

One. Per these two, Angelo flat out said the owners won't let him spend money. Does anyone realize how big of a statement this would be? This is the sort of statement that gets a guy fired, and one that really rubs the other owners wrong. Who wants to hire a guy who has previously called out his ownership? Maybe it is the truth, but it just seems odd Angelo would tell such a thing to these guys.

 

Two. They indicate Angelo is restricted on how much he is allowed to spend annually, but have they seen the money Angelo has spent? Whether it is signing our own to huge deals, or adding veterans like Wale, Tait, Moose and others, or even in failed deals like when we offered Kearse $20m SB, it just doesn't seem like Angelo's hands are as tied as they act like.

 

Three. Jerry "ran the drafts" in TB. I would bet that is news to McKay, the TB GM. Did Angelo play a big role. Most likely. But to say he ran the drafts makes it sound as if he were the GM, when he was just the Director of player personnel (or whatever the title is).

 

Four. "missed on some draft picks"? "Some"? Sounding more and more like they are a pair of Angelo apologists. They talk about his coming to Chicago w/ Cred, but that seems a stretch. They act like he just missed on a couple picks, and then say cheap ownership is why he has to stick w/ them. They sound to me like Angelo apologists who are using ownership to excuse the poor job Angelo has done.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Here's something I recently heard, but can't find any facts on yet:

 

The way the salary cap works, the teams have a limit and a floor on what they have to spend. The Bears have approx. 20-30 million available to spend, but if the ownership don't have the cash readily available, they won't be able to compete in signing bonuses. At some point in time, the teams are given there revenue sharing but that is after the FA period starts. What I heard is that the Bears won't be able to do too much b/c the ownership wouldn't have millions available to hand out and with the economy and banking situations borrowing wouldn't be much of an option. I wish LT2 3 were available to correct me and explain, but I think this has something to do with the inactivity. Once the cash becomes available the Bears will have to find a way to be within 85.2% of the cap.

[nfoligno]

Lt2 responded to part in another thread.

 

We are about $8m away from the "floor", and it is really even less when you factor the rookie pool. That really isn't much, and meeting the "floor" should be very easy.

 

What I have no clue about is when you ask when each team gets their share of the revenue. It seems like it would go against logic and reason for teams to get their money late, as the whole purpose is for smaller market teams to be able to compete w/ the bigger markets. If the small market teams don't get their money until some point after FA begins, and thus after the big markets have already signed all the top FAs, it just seems like that would defeat the purpose of revenue sharing.

 

Not saying you are incorrect. I hear/read something everyday that goes against logic and reason. This may well be another example.

 

Here's something I recently heard, but can't find any facts on yet:

 

The way the salary cap works, the teams have a limit and a floor on what they have to spend. The Bears have approx. 20-30 million available to spend, but if the ownership don't have the cash readily available, they won't be able to compete in signing bonuses. At some point in time, the teams are given there revenue sharing but that is after the FA period starts. What I heard is that the Bears won't be able to do too much b/c the ownership wouldn't have millions available to hand out and with the economy and banking situations borrowing wouldn't be much of an option. I wish LT2 3 were available to correct me and explain, but I think this has something to do with the inactivity. Once the cash becomes available the Bears will have to find a way to be within 85.2% of the cap.