T. O. cut

[balta1701-A]

TO may have called Garcia a fag, and railed on McNabb...but correct me if I'm wrong...didn't he cry in SUPPORT of Romo? I'm not saying that it's an action indicative of all his media interactions, but he seemed to be on Romo's side more often than not.

 

Also, let's not forget that everywhere he's been, the QB there has looked better. There is no mystery in that statement.

He was on Romo's side 2 season's ago (seriously, that display was just pathetic) but last season he wasn't any more. He was complaining late in the season about not getting enough passes thrown his way, despite getting the majority of Dallas's passes thrown his way, because he felt like Romo was focusing on his new buddy Witten too much.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

You're all missing the point. Not only is he a pain in the ass, but he just isn't the TO I'm used to watching anymore. He drops too many passes.

[Connorbear]

Or, conversely...

 

YES, YES, and HELL YES.

 

Anyone on this board who says they want to win, and want to see the Bears have a respectable offense, should say the exact same thing.

 

==================

Personally, I'm all for signing a few character guys if it means they are going to kick ass on the field. People that are unknowns like Benson are one thing, but guys like Owens who have ripped the league a new a-hole for the last decade are another. Sign him now, and he immediately makes Hester more dangerous on deep routes, the running game stronger, and the tight ends more open. As I've said for years now, I would rather have a few guys people hate and win the Super Bowl than a team full of boy scouts who finish around .500 every year. I swear; half of the guys on the 85 roster would have been "NO NO NO" guys to half the people on this board.

I want the Bears to win. I simply do not want a pos like Owens on my team. The guy is the definition of locker room cancer.

 

Peace

[GreatScott82]

I want the Bears to win. I simply do not want a pos like Owens on my team. The guy is the definition of locker room cancer.

 

Peace

^^^

Sign Holt and draft Maclean or Heyward-Bay with that 1st rounder.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Or, conversely...

 

YES, YES, and HELL YES.

 

Anyone on this board who says they want to win, and want to see the Bears have a respectable offense, should say the exact same thing.

 

==================

Personally, I'm all for signing a few character guys if it means they are going to kick ass on the field. People that are unknowns like Benson are one thing, but guys like Owens who have ripped the league a new a-hole for the last decade are another. Sign him now, and he immediately makes Hester more dangerous on deep routes, the running game stronger, and the tight ends more open. As I've said for years now, I would rather have a few guys people hate and win the Super Bowl than a team full of boy scouts who finish around .500 every year. I swear; half of the guys on the 85 roster would have been "NO NO NO" guys to half the people on this board.

 

I'm with jason on this one! T.O. works best in a west coast offense which Turners offense is based off of. Every team that he's been on, he's put up monster #'s. When his team starts losing and he's no longer the focal point of the offense is when the media starts asking him his thoughts and the negative energy emerges.

 

I think TO would be 50/50 on his decision to come here:

 

50 For - Chicago is the second largest market, a storied NFL franchise, team still has a chance at SB, he can become Chicago's best WR ever.

 

50 Against - Offense has been in the gutter, QB not very accurate past 15 yds, Turner hasn't been too creative.

 

Odds are, Angelo/Lovie wouldn't think twice about it, but getting a true #1 may change minds.

[jason]

I want the Bears to win. I simply do not want a pos like Owens on my team. The guy is the definition of locker room cancer.

 

Peace

 

I'm not saying that signing TO and the Bears winning are automatically linked, but nobody can deny the fact that adding him to your team makes your team better on the field. He's one of the top WRs in the NFL, and has been for 10 years.

 

I say that you guys are being too damn picky. You would probably have cut McMichaels, Hampton, and McMahon too. I honestly don't care if a guy is on the team is a locker room cancer as long as he kicks ass on the field. Even a malcontent like TO, at his absolute media-baiting worst, is better than any WR the Bears have had for...well...maybe ever.

[madlithuanian]

Just curious, why would many have wanted to cut Mongo, Danimal or Jimmy Mac? From my understanding all were consumate team players. They partied, but they showed up for work and kicked butt. I don't recall any of them throwing thier teammates under busses...

 

I really don't think it'd be worth it other than for the train wreck element once TO starts throwing Orton, and others under the bus.

 

 

I say that you guys are being too damn picky. You would probably have cut McMichaels, Hampton, and McMahon too. I honestly don't care if a guy is on the team is a locker room cancer as long as he kicks ass on the field. Even a malcontent like TO, at his absolute media-baiting worst, is better than any WR the Bears have had for...well...maybe ever.

[jason]

Just curious, why would many have wanted to cut Mongo, Danimal or Jimmy Mac? From my understanding all were consumate team players. They partied, but they showed up for work and kicked butt. I don't recall any of them throwing thier teammates under busses...

 

I really don't think it'd be worth it other than for the train wreck element once TO starts throwing Orton, and others under the bus.

 

Because they weren't boy scouts. It seems that most on this board want boy scouts instead of football players. It's possible that the two come in one package, but the superstars seem to have a chip on their shoulder (especially the WRs). I realize that TO is the far end of the spectrum as far as attitude goes, but the man dominates on the field. Period. So, does it really matter what a player does off the field? As you say, they "partied, but they showed up for work and kicked butt." Looking at TO's production over the last decade, I have to come to that same conclusion in regards to what he brings to a team.

 

I'll take a team full of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens type players. That kind of talent wins football games. There was a point two or three years ago when BOTH players could have been had. I called for it then. And the same thing happened back then: "No way!", "I don't want him!", "Locker room cancer!" Meanwhile, Moss and TO continue to put DBs on roller skates and pile up stats.

[Connorbear]

I'm not saying that signing TO and the Bears winning are automatically linked, but nobody can deny the fact that adding him to your team makes your team better on the field. He's one of the top WRs in the NFL, and has been for 10 years.

 

I say that you guys are being too damn picky. You would probably have cut McMichaels, Hampton, and McMahon too. I honestly don't care if a guy is on the team is a locker room cancer as long as he kicks ass on the field. Even a malcontent like TO, at his absolute media-baiting worst, is better than any WR the Bears have had for...well...maybe ever.

So are you comparing McMichael, Hampton, and McMahon to TO? Are you saying they were locker room cancers in the same vain? Honestly, I think you are way, way over your skis if you believe that.

 

I could really care less what an arse hat like TO says in front of the media. Again, to me, he is the clear definition of a locker room cancer.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

Because they weren't boy scouts. It seems that most on this board want boy scouts instead of football players. It's possible that the two come in one package, but the superstars seem to have a chip on their shoulder (especially the WRs). I realize that TO is the far end of the spectrum as far as attitude goes, but the man dominates on the field. Period. So, does it really matter what a player does off the field? As you say, they "partied, but they showed up for work and kicked butt." Looking at TO's production over the last decade, I have to come to that same conclusion in regards to what he brings to a team.

 

I'll take a team full of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens type players. That kind of talent wins football games. There was a point two or three years ago when BOTH players could have been had. I called for it then. And the same thing happened back then: "No way!", "I don't want him!", "Locker room cancer!" Meanwhile, Moss and TO continue to put DBs on roller skates and pile up stats.

I'll give Moss credit - he has straightened his act out. I would say he finally hooked up with a coach and a qb that would not put up with his crap. Why the heck do you think TO would do the same thing after playing with Garcia in SF, McNabb in Philly, and Romo in Dallas? You honestly think playing for Lovie and with Orton is going to keep him in check?

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

I honestly don't get that impression at all... We aren't looking for boy scouts. We want men. Representatives of this franchise. I honestly don't want a boat load of Ned Flanders' on our team! I'd rather have a bunch of Jimmy Mac's (with a better heath track record)! ...guys that give it their all on Sunday's and make those around them better. Guys that handle their business in the locker. Guys that don't cry...unless they just watched "Brian's Song". To some degree it matters what a guys does off the field. Obviously criminal activity, etc is not good. But so is behavior that disintegrates the team element. Like throwing every single QB you've played with uner the bus...

 

We don't necessarily want angels, we want hard workers and team players.

 

Keep in mind, TO dominated the field. Past tense. He now alligator arms too many passes and has too many drops. He's not what he was years ago.

 

But, in the end, it's all just fun banter because the Bears won't do it.

 

 

 

Because they weren't boy scouts. It seems that most on this board want boy scouts instead of football players. It's possible that the two come in one package, but the superstars seem to have a chip on their shoulder (especially the WRs). I realize that TO is the far end of the spectrum as far as attitude goes, but the man dominates on the field. Period. So, does it really matter what a player does off the field? As you say, they "partied, but they showed up for work and kicked butt." Looking at TO's production over the last decade, I have to come to that same conclusion in regards to what he brings to a team.

 

I'll take a team full of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens type players. That kind of talent wins football games. There was a point two or three years ago when BOTH players could have been had. I called for it then. And the same thing happened back then: "No way!", "I don't want him!", "Locker room cancer!" Meanwhile, Moss and TO continue to put DBs on roller skates and pile up stats.

[brletich]

Because they weren't boy scouts. It seems that most on this board want boy scouts instead of football players. It's possible that the two come in one package, but the superstars seem to have a chip on their shoulder (especially the WRs). I realize that TO is the far end of the spectrum as far as attitude goes, but the man dominates on the field. Period. So, does it really matter what a player does off the field? As you say, they "partied, but they showed up for work and kicked butt." Looking at TO's production over the last decade, I have to come to that same conclusion in regards to what he brings to a team.

 

I'll take a team full of Randy Moss and Terrell Owens type players. That kind of talent wins football games. There was a point two or three years ago when BOTH players could have been had. I called for it then. And the same thing happened back then: "No way!", "I don't want him!", "Locker room cancer!" Meanwhile, Moss and TO continue to put DBs on roller skates and pile up stats.

 

My only problem with that logic is TO is now far from dominant. He was very mediocre last season (which I agree is 3000% better than any Bears WR last year) but the fact that the ass hat routine comes in a package that can no longer dominate on the field tells me that he won't be worth it. NFO said it best, and living in Dallas he probably knows the best of all of us about it, but he just did not get separation last season, and dropped more balls than Rashied Davis. If he was still an absolute dominant WR that was a guarantee to push you over the edge, you argument might sway me...but at this point I question whether is that WR anymore.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Didn't Jason get the memo? TO is no longer a great NFL WR. While he is better then what we have, who isn't? TO's play has declined a ton in 2 years...last year I think he led the NFL in drops. He definitley isn't a top 10 WR anymore (Fitzgerald, Boldin, Wayne, Ward, Moss, Welker, Houshmandzadeh, Chad Johnson, Evans, Royal, Marshall, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Jennings, Calvin Johnson, and Colston are all better then TO right now, IMO). I'll pass.

[jason]

Didn't Jason get the memo? TO is no longer a great NFL WR. While he is better then what we have, who isn't? TO's play has declined a ton in 2 years...last year I think he led the NFL in drops. He definitley isn't a top 10 WR anymore (Fitzgerald, Boldin, Wayne, Ward, Moss, Welker, Houshmandzadeh, Chad Johnson, Evans, Royal, Marshall, Andre Johnson, Roddy White, Steve Smith, Jennings, Calvin Johnson, and Colston are all better then TO right now, IMO). I'll pass.

 

ORLY? I think you're just being a TO hater...which is crazy because I am almost always the one who says stuff about TO's attitude when discussing it with my friends. But his numbers and production do not lie.

 

He's better than:

Ward - overrated because he loves to block

Welker - Gimme a break. Only putting up huge numbers because there is a circle-jerk around TO

Housh - No friggin way

Chad - Ridiculous. Has the TO attitude and doesn't even have the TO production

Evans - Next

Royal - HAHA...this was a joke, right?)

Roddy - Gimme a year or two before he surpasses TO

Steve Smith - The only one on my list that I feel is debateable. He's a beast at times.

Jennings - I don't think so. He had good stats, but GB always seems to have one WR put up huge stats.

Calvin - See Roddy

Colston - See Roddy/Calvin

 

Remember, stats don't tell the whole story. TO gets more coverage and attention than just about any other WR. And the drops are a BS stat as well. I watched several of the Cowboys' games this year, and TO was credited with several passes which certainly were not drops. It's perception. I remember being in the chat room and completely disagreeing with Connor on whether or not a Bear player dropped a pass in single coverage. Change that to double-coverage for TO, and a forced pass, and then we can talk. I know the dude has a propensity for alligator-arms from time to time, but the "led the league in drops" is a BS stat.

 

And, last but not least, his production may have dropped...but look at Witten's. You're telling me that Witten is not benefitting in a huge way because all the attention TO is getting?

3 years with TO: 165 catches, 1831 yards, 21 TDs

3 years without TO: 91 catches, 1251 yards, 10 TDs.

TO led the league in TDs just two short seasons ago (and had 15 last season). Teams caught on, starting blanketing him with double and triple coverage. Hence, Witten is wide open.

 

You're kidding yourself if you don't think TO is still one of the most dangerous WRs in the NFL.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Chad Johnson is not a team cancer. He repeatedly gets out there and performs. He doesn't drop passes across the middle like TO, and neither do the other guys. All the other guys shut up and play. All TO wants is the ball yet he drops 2 a game. GMAFB

[nfoligno]

Here is the thing. There is a great difference between not wanting TO and only wanting boy scouts.

 

TO is part of what I could consider a very select group of players who are simply not worth it. We are not talking about passing on a guy who simply showboats or is an ass w/ the media. TO goes so far beyond, it is incredible.

 

You say there is no question having him improves the team, but why then did 3 teams feel they were better w/o him. Dallas was willing to eat nearly $10m in cap just to get rid of him. Further, if he is still so great and worth the issues, why then is it that nearly every team has said they want no part of TO, and only a couple teams are considered even to be considering him, or maybe they simply have not yet come out (as have most) and said they want no part of him?

 

I also disagree he is a top 10 WR. Frankly, I honestly am not sure he is even a top 20 WR anymore. Seriously. As I said in another post, it is WAY beyond the drops. He simply does not get open anymore, which points to a major dropoff of quickness. That was one of the biggest problems in Dallas. He wasn't getting open, which was also a key reason he had one of the worst pass attempt- catch ratios in the NFL. To me, he is so like Moose it is not even funny.

 

So lets summarize.

 

He undermines the coaches and QB.

He creates cliques on the team, and uses them to play players against each other.

He not only bashes his QB and players in-house, but takes his issues to the media.

He drops balls at a rate that would embarass Dez White.

He fails to get open or get separation like, well, most Chicago Bear WRs.

He screams at the QB for not throwing him the ball, even when he is blanket covered, and when the QB forces the ball to him, he doesn't make the play.

 

Yea, that is a guy I want on my team.

 

I'm not saying that signing TO and the Bears winning are automatically linked, but nobody can deny the fact that adding him to your team makes your team better on the field. He's one of the top WRs in the NFL, and has been for 10 years.

 

I say that you guys are being too damn picky. You would probably have cut McMichaels, Hampton, and McMahon too. I honestly don't care if a guy is on the team is a locker room cancer as long as he kicks ass on the field. Even a malcontent like TO, at his absolute media-baiting worst, is better than any WR the Bears have had for...well...maybe ever.

[nfoligno]

Jason and I agree on so many areas, but this is not one. Jason seems to think that if we do not want one of the worst locker room cancers, that means we must only want boy scouts. Black and white w/o any grey in the middle.

 

So are you comparing McMichael, Hampton, and McMahon to TO? Are you saying they were locker room cancers in the same vain? Honestly, I think you are way, way over your skis if you believe that.

 

I could really care less what an arse hat like TO says in front of the media. Again, to me, he is the clear definition of a locker room cancer.

 

Peace

[ParkerBear7]

no to TO! beside the Bears could not afford him and he is old so it is a non-issue.

[nfoligno]

I will take it even further. As usual, when things were going good or pretty good, he was being a good enough boy, but as soon as he wasn't getting his, same ol same ol.

 

Even when Dallas was winning last year, he wasn't happy unless he was getting his. At one point, he alluded to Romo being racist, which had to be why he was throwing to Witten over him. Film review showed the reality was Witten was able to get open. TO wasn't. But that didn't mean crap to TO. All he knew or cared about was he wasn't getting his.

 

In the first month of so of the season, it began. The team was hot, and winning. After 5 games, I believe they were 4-1. They were doing very well, and the offense was scoring. But TO wasn't putting up the big stats, and he didn't feel he was getting enough looks, and thus the bad feelings began. When the team started losing, it got really bad. But one of the best examples was late in the season when they beat NYGs pretty handily, but TO didn't do much after the game. He pouted all week. That the team won didn't matter to him. All he cared about was the lack of stats.

 

TO just isn't worth it.

 

He was on Romo's side 2 season's ago (seriously, that display was just pathetic) but last season he wasn't any more. He was complaining late in the season about not getting enough passes thrown his way, despite getting the majority of Dallas's passes thrown his way, because he felt like Romo was focusing on his new buddy Witten too much.

[azbearsfan]

No to TO. The guy drops more balls than Moose and throws more people under the bus.

 

 

Contrary to what some believe, signing him would not guarantee a SB win.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

no to TO! beside the Bears could not afford him and he is old so it is a non-issue.

The Bears are anywhere from 31-34 million under. Why couldn't we afford him?

[akshaz]

I also disagree he is a top 10 WR. Frankly, I honestly am not sure he is even a top 20 WR anymore. Seriously.

 

That's an incredible statement. You cannot be serious. I don't care what the guy does off the field, there isn't a corner in this league that can cover T.O. one-on-one. One run plays, he's easily one of the top 2-3 blocking WRs in the game. Yes, he may drop more balls than his team likes. But, what he does after the catch is better than anything we've ever had around. EVER. If you attempt to name 20 WRs in the league that are better than him, if you were honest, you would soon realize how silly that statement is.

 

He'll make Orton look better. He'll make Olson one of the better TEs in the league. He'll make Matt Forte's like much, MUCH easier. He'll immediately make our team better and possibly add 2-3 more Ws to the schedule.

 

We always have this debate about character guys on the team, whether they can help us or not. I can't believe that a bunch of you guys would rather lose a ton of games with a team full of choir boys, then win the Super Bowl with the like of Tank Johnson, T.O. or Michael Vick. Some of you would rather have folks that go to church with Lovie than guys that would be at the Super Bowl with Goodell.

 

Personally, I'm for bringing in anyone that can help our team win more games. I would prefer not to have the distractions. But, that's not the most important issue. Neither is "protecting" Orton from any criticism that T.O. may levy. Heck, maybe he'll make us get serious about the QB position!!

 

You don't have to let him marry your daughter. We just need him to torch his man for a few hours on Sundays and help us win games. The other factors are secondary.

[nfoligno]

That's an incredible statement. You cannot be serious. I don't care what the guy does off the field, there isn't a corner in this league that can cover T.O. one-on-one. One run plays, he's easily one of the top 2-3 blocking WRs in the game. Yes, he may drop more balls than his team likes. But, what he does after the catch is better than anything we've ever had around. EVER. If you attempt to name 20 WRs in the league that are better than him, if you were honest, you would soon realize how silly that statement is.

 

Sorry, but living here in Dallas, I see more Cowboy games than I would otherwise care to, and hear WAY too much about them. Everyone who considers him to still be so elite, I just have to ask. How many Cowboy games are you all watching? I will say this much. At times I wonder how much is lost and how much of it is just mental. There were a couple games last year where he just took over, but that was only in a couple games. In the vast majority, he looked far more passive. He route running was a joke. He wasn't even trying to get open. Focus and concentration were just not there, likely partial reason for all the drops. So I don't know how much of his downplay is lost skills and how much is that he just didn't give a crap.

 

The one thing I will give him. When near the goal line, he would take his game to another level. I am NOT dismissing that, but we need someone who can get us into the red zone before we worry too much about a weapon inside there.

 

As for top 20, or whatever, I'll give you a list of WRs at the end of this post I would take over TO.

 

He'll make Orton look better. He'll make Olson one of the better TEs in the league. He'll make Matt Forte's like much, MUCH easier. He'll immediately make our team better and possibly add 2-3 more Ws to the schedule.

 

Funny how that is the same logic Dallas used, but at the end of the day, most felt he hurt Romo more then helped. Everyone, national and local, has been talking about it, and not just now, but all through last year. It was so obvious that in games following TO's outbursts, you could tell Romo was really forcing the ball to TO. But there were two problems. One, TO would drop too many and two, TO wasn't getting open, and thus many of the forces passes were knocked down or intercepted. I don't have the stats now, but the local sports station here checked, and most (just can't remember the number) of Romo's picks were on pass attempts to TO. Further, film study also showed that other players were open, but Romo was trying to force it to TO regardless.

 

Why do you think Dallas got rid of TO. The A#1 reason was they felt Romo could develop better w/o him. So when some say TO automatically makes Orton better, I question that. Is he a weapon we do not have. Yes. I get the reasoning. At the same time, history has also proven otherwise. He does as much to damage QBs as he does to help them. Don't ever dismiss the mental aspect of the game (see Rex Grossman). And TO has a way of shredding a QBs mental makeup.

 

Orton is not the greatest downfield passer, right? How exactly do you think TO will react when he runs downfield and the ball sails over his head. Do you think he will run back to the huddle and tell Orton, "Well get them next time". Yea right.

 

We always have this debate about character guys on the team, whether they can help us or not. I can't believe that a bunch of you guys would rather lose a ton of games with a team full of choir boys, then win the Super Bowl with the like of Tank Johnson, T.O. or Michael Vick. Some of you would rather have folks that go to church with Lovie than guys that would be at the Super Bowl with Goodell.

 

This argument gets so old. Kills me when a poster says/assumes that just because a fan doesn't want one of the worst characters in the league, we must then ONLY want choir boys. Give me a break. I think most fans would accept a level of questionable character, but then there are a select few players who are just so freaking out there in terms of character they are simply not worth the risk.

 

You don't have to let him marry your daughter. We just need him to torch his man for a few hours on Sundays and help us win games. The other factors are secondary.

 

Tell that to SF, Phily and Dallas.

 

WRs I think are better than TO:

 

Fitzgerald

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

Brandon Marshall

Steve Smith

Reggie Wayne

Randy Moss

Wes Welker

Boldin

R. White

Bowe

Gennings

Housyourmama

Colston

 

These players I think are absolutely better than TO at this point. After this group, it gets closer, and the arguments will be heavier, but I would also take over TO:

 

S.Moss, Ward, Evans, Driver, B.Edwards, Holt, Driver.

 

Biggest problem I see, w/ the idea of adding TO is, I think you need a very specific set up to make it work. ESPN radio talked about it this morning too. You need a very strong QB and HC, neither of which we have. He would eat Orton alive and shred any confidence he might have. And Lovie would do jack about it. I can see TO having a good year (short term) in a city like Tenn, where I think Collins and Fisher can better keep him in control (again, short term) but Chicago is dang near the anti of what I think it will take to keep him in line.

['TD']

His attitude sucks, but it doesn't bother me much.

 

It's arguable if he's top 10 or top 20, but the Bears may not even have a top 50 WR.

 

The guy is 35 and will be 36 before the play offs, which is too old to really plan the next 3 years or so around.

 

If he was going to come in for a Booker type money and be a stop gap at the position, then I would be all for it. That's not going to happen and the only reason I don't want him here.

[akshaz]

Sorry, but living here in Dallas, I see more Cowboy games than I would otherwise care to, and hear WAY too much about them. Everyone who considers him to still be so elite, I just have to ask. How many Cowboy games are you all watching? I will say this much. At times I wonder how much is lost and how much of it is just mental. There were a couple games last year where he just took over, but that was only in a couple games. In the vast majority, he looked far more passive. He route running was a joke. He wasn't even trying to get open. Focus and concentration were just not there, likely partial reason for all the drops. So I don't know how much of his downplay is lost skills and how much is that he just didn't give a crap.

 

The one thing I will give him. When near the goal line, he would take his game to another level. I am NOT dismissing that, but we need someone who can get us into the red zone before we worry too much about a weapon inside there.

 

As for top 20, or whatever, I'll give you a list of WRs at the end of this post I would take over TO.

 

He'll make Orton look better. He'll make Olson one of the better TEs in the league. He'll make Matt Forte's like much, MUCH easier. He'll immediately make our team better and possibly add 2-3 more Ws to the schedule.

 

Funny how that is the same logic Dallas used, but at the end of the day, most felt he hurt Romo more then helped. Everyone, national and local, has been talking about it, and not just now, but all through last year. It was so obvious that in games following TO's outbursts, you could tell Romo was really forcing the ball to TO. But there were two problems. One, TO would drop too many and two, TO wasn't getting open, and thus many of the forces passes were knocked down or intercepted. I don't have the stats now, but the local sports station here checked, and most (just can't remember the number) of Romo's picks were on pass attempts to TO. Further, film study also showed that other players were open, but Romo was trying to force it to TO regardless.

 

Why do you think Dallas got rid of TO. The A#1 reason was they felt Romo could develop better w/o him. So when some say TO automatically makes Orton better, I question that. Is he a weapon we do not have. Yes. I get the reasoning. At the same time, history has also proven otherwise. He does as much to damage QBs as he does to help them. Don't ever dismiss the mental aspect of the game (see Rex Grossman). And TO has a way of shredding a QBs mental makeup.

 

Orton is not the greatest downfield passer, right? How exactly do you think TO will react when he runs downfield and the ball sails over his head. Do you think he will run back to the huddle and tell Orton, "Well get them next time". Yea right.

 

We always have this debate about character guys on the team, whether they can help us or not. I can't believe that a bunch of you guys would rather lose a ton of games with a team full of choir boys, then win the Super Bowl with the like of Tank Johnson, T.O. or Michael Vick. Some of you would rather have folks that go to church with Lovie than guys that would be at the Super Bowl with Goodell.

 

This argument gets so old. Kills me when a poster says/assumes that just because a fan doesn't want one of the worst characters in the league, we must then ONLY want choir boys. Give me a break. I think most fans would accept a level of questionable character, but then there are a select few players who are just so freaking out there in terms of character they are simply not worth the risk.

 

You don't have to let him marry your daughter. We just need him to torch his man for a few hours on Sundays and help us win games. The other factors are secondary.

 

Tell that to SF, Phily and Dallas.

 

WRs I think are better than TO:

 

Fitzgerald

Andre Johnson

Calvin Johnson

Brandon Marshall

Steve Smith

Reggie Wayne

Randy Moss

Wes Welker

Boldin

R. White

Bowe

Gennings

Housyourmama

Colston

 

These players I think are absolutely better than TO at this point. After this group, it gets closer, and the arguments will be heavier, but I would also take over TO:

 

S.Moss, Ward, Evans, Driver, B.Edwards, Holt, Driver.

 

Biggest problem I see, w/ the idea of adding TO is, I think you need a very specific set up to make it work. ESPN radio talked about it this morning too. You need a very strong QB and HC, neither of which we have. He would eat Orton alive and shred any confidence he might have. And Lovie would do jack about it. I can see TO having a good year (short term) in a city like Tenn, where I think Collins and Fisher can better keep him in control (again, short term) but Chicago is dang near the anti of what I think it will take to keep him in line.

 

 

Okay a few points. First, I watch a ton of Cowboys games. I have a brother that is a Cowboy fan, so I have to keep up with them in order to squash any hopes he has (same goes with Chargers and Colts). IMHO, I think that T.O. is one of those players that needs a change of scenery every few years to keep him sharp. It prevents him from being content. I would attribute any drop in production to a lack of concentration more than any deteriorization in skills. That's why you still see the high-end production in the red zone. He's a playmaker. Also, he keeps himself in tip-top physical shape. He may be 32. But again, I'd put his skills up there with anyone in the league......

 

...which leads to my next point. How could you possibly say that guys like Marques Colston, TJ Housh, Dwayne Bowe, Roddy White, Calvin Johnson, Gennings etc are "absolutely better" than TO? Gimme a break dude. Really?? TJ may be debatable. But, what have the others done to justify such lofty status? Most of these guys are only a couple years out of college and have done very little in this league. Maybe they had ONE better than average season. But, c'mon. Better than TO??!! Clearly, I think you are reaching in order to justify your point.

 

A point that I would agree with you on is how he would respond to Orton's failures. He will cut him very little slack when he leaves plays on the field. But hey, that may work to our advantage by forcing us to get serious about the QB position. How frustrating was it to watch Orton over/underthrow Devin Hester all last year? JA talked a good game after the season. But, now it looks like he's content to go back into next year with Orton as the unquestioned starter. Unbelievable.

 

T.O. is a longshot. But, he could help our team. We'd immediately be a better, more competitive team. That's really all that I care about. What makes T.O. so "out there"? Media interviews?? Gimme a break.

 

Heck, I say bring him in and go hire a counselor if coaching/management can't take the other stuff.