Do we really want to re-sign St. Clair?

[nfoligno]

I touched on this in another thread, but wanted to throw it out there.

 

I think most here (though not all) would like to see us consider OL in the 1st round of the draft, particularly if one of the key OT prospects fall to us. But this is what is bothering me. If our two key FA signings before the draft are both OL (Omiyale & St. Clair) how likely is Angelo to then take an OT in the 1st round of the draft?

 

IMHO, signing Omiyale and St. Clair does nothing to take away from our needs on the OL. Both are solid depth, and players I would not mind in a competition for a starting job, but neither are players I want to enter camp as the set starters. Yet if we sign both, I just have a hard time seeing Angelo then make OT our top priority in the draft as well. So...

 

Should we hope to not sign St. Clair? If we do not sign St. Clair, I think it safe to assume OT would remain very much a top priority entering the draft. Problem w/ this is, what if we get what we hope (do not sign him) but then no OL is there and we end up walking away from the draft w/o any upper level OL prospects.

 

Or do we simply hope to sign him, and regardless expect Angelo will still prioritize OL in the draft?

 

I'll be honest. Right now, I do not want to sign St. Clair. I would LOVE it if no one else signed him, and we could again look at him after the draft, if we can not add a better OL prospect. But prior to the draft, i would just as soon not see him signed. That would put serious pressure on Angie to get OL, and not wait around until the middle of day two.

[ChileBear]

IMHO, signing Omiyale and St. Clair does nothing to take away from our needs on the OL. Both are solid depth, and players I would not mind in a competition for a starting job, but neither are players I want to enter camp as the set starters. Yet if we sign both, I just have a hard time seeing Angelo then make OT our top priority in the draft as well. So...

 

Should we hope to not sign St. Clair? If we do not sign St. Clair, I think it safe to assume OT would remain very much a top priority entering the draft. Problem w/ this is, what if we get what we hope (do not sign him) but then no OL is there and we end up walking away from the draft w/o any upper level OL prospects.

 

Or do we simply hope to sign him, and regardless expect Angelo will still prioritize OL in the draft?

 

I'll be honest. Right now, I do not want to sign St. Clair. I would LOVE it if no one else signed him, and we could again look at him after the draft, if we can not add a better OL prospect. But prior to the draft, i would just as soon not see him signed. That would put serious pressure on Angie to get OL, and not wait around until the middle of day two.

Agree that OL should be a priority in the draft, and that St. Clair and Omiyale should not be counted on as starters. The draft will, as always, be interesting from this standpoint. But I also agree that JA may just resign St. Clair and not see the need to add a quality OL in the draft. That, for me, will be a big mistake.

[Connorbear]

Agree that OL should be a priority in the draft, and that St. Clair and Omiyale should not be counted on as starters. The draft will, as always, be interesting from this standpoint. But I also agree that JA may just resign St. Clair and not see the need to add a quality OL in the draft. That, for me, will be a big mistake.

Assuming that Omiyale is going to play guard, even if we sign St. Clair we still need another tackle (unless you coung practice squad Cody Balogh). In this situation, I still see Angelo drafting OT in the first 3 rounds.

 

Peace

[azbearsfan]

I touched on this in another thread, but wanted to throw it out there.

 

I think most here (though not all) would like to see us consider OL in the 1st round of the draft, particularly if one of the key OT prospects fall to us. But this is what is bothering me. If our two key FA signings before the draft are both OL (Omiyale & St. Clair) how likely is Angelo to then take an OT in the 1st round of the draft?

 

IMHO, signing Omiyale and St. Clair does nothing to take away from our needs on the OL. Both are solid depth, and players I would not mind in a competition for a starting job, but neither are players I want to enter camp as the set starters. Yet if we sign both, I just have a hard time seeing Angelo then make OT our top priority in the draft as well. So...

 

Should we hope to not sign St. Clair? If we do not sign St. Clair, I think it safe to assume OT would remain very much a top priority entering the draft. Problem w/ this is, what if we get what we hope (do not sign him) but then no OL is there and we end up walking away from the draft w/o any upper level OL prospects.

 

Or do we simply hope to sign him, and regardless expect Angelo will still prioritize OL in the draft?

 

I'll be honest. Right now, I do not want to sign St. Clair. I would LOVE it if no one else signed him, and we could again look at him after the draft, if we can not add a better OL prospect. But prior to the draft, i would just as soon not see him signed. That would put serious pressure on Angie to get OL, and not wait around until the middle of day two.

 

 

I think you are right and that if we get St Clair we go WR 1st and then maybe OL 2nd.

[nfoligno]

Sure we will still need a tackle, but if we re-sign St. Clair, and Angelo believes SC will be our starting RT, then we are simply looking for depth. Drastic difference entering the draft looking for a starting RT and looking for depth. If we are only looking for depth, I can easily see Angelo looking in rounds 4-7, as he has so often done in the past. If however he is looking for a starting RT, that is much more likely round 1-3, and more likely 1st or 2nd.

 

Assuming that Omiyale is going to play guard, even if we sign St. Clair we still need another tackle (unless you coung practice squad Cody Balogh). In this situation, I still see Angelo drafting OT in the first 3 rounds.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

I could live w/ that, somewhat. But I actually fear that if we get St. Clair, we would not even look heavily at OL in the 2nd round. If we get St. Clair, I can easily see Angelo believing we have our starting LT and RT, and only need depth. When he needs OL depth, he most often looks in late day two of the draft for that.

 

Think about this. The only two times Angelo has drafted OT high was when it was a position of dire desperation (Columbo/Williams). Otherwise, the OL is something Angelo looks for much much later in the draft. And that is my fear.

 

If we were to get St. Clair, then draft a WR in the 1st and OL in the 2nd, I would be okay w/ that, especially if neither Oher, nor Smith were on the board for us in the 1st. But I simply fear we would be more likely to start looking for OL in the 4th round or later thinking we only need depth.

 

I think you are right and that if we get St Clair we go WR 1st and then maybe OL 2nd.

[Chitownhustla]

I could live w/ that, somewhat. But I actually fear that if we get St. Clair, we would not even look heavily at OL in the 2nd round. If we get St. Clair, I can easily see Angelo believing we have our starting LT and RT, and only need depth. When he needs OL depth, he most often looks in late day two of the draft for that.

 

Think about this. The only two times Angelo has drafted OT high was when it was a position of dire desperation (Columbo/Williams). Otherwise, the OL is something Angelo looks for much much later in the draft. And that is my fear.

 

If we were to get St. Clair, then draft a WR in the 1st and OL in the 2nd, I would be okay w/ that, especially if neither Oher, nor Smith were on the board for us in the 1st. But I simply fear we would be more likely to start looking for OL in the 4th round or later thinking we only need depth.

 

 

I think either way you look at the draft JA has to go OL in the first 3 rounds because Williams is a huge ? and personally i think SC is good back up at best. If Williams had played last year and was a lock then maybe i would feel different. I also believe you can never have too many good OLmen especially when you are a running team. If we sign SC then I would be happy with going 1.WR 2.OT 3.S. Unless one of the Big Time T's falls to us, but if Maclin dropped then i say take him and go T in the 2nd.

[AZ54]

I disagree. I think a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. In other words sign St Clair. Of course if he's on the roster it does shape our draft in a different way because we don't have to be so desperate for an OT and it allows us to wait a bit and pick one up in Rd 2 or 3. However, I don't view that problem being JA as much as the fact there is no way to know how the draft will play out. If we knew going in that we'd get one of the top RTs at #18 then no problem but if they are gone do we want to be forced to grab a guy really early? I prefer to keep our options open in case there's a WR we really like at #18, or say a QB like Sanchez. It also keeps the door open for drafting Duke Robinson in Rd 2 instead of an OT, or a FS like Delmas in Rd 2.

 

I have some thoughts on the St Clair negotiating process too. St Clair said he wants to be a starter. I think we've offered him a fair deal but JA did not guarantee him he'd be a starter. We want him back and will allow him to compete for a starting job. I think this was more clear when we signed Omiyale, a guy who looked decent in his one start at LT last year, and then said we want to move him inside. I don't think he was signed for the reason at all, instead I think that's a ploy to let St Clair think he'll have a better shot at starting RT for us.

 

St Clair has proven he has value playing inside as well so I prefer him for that role (backup or starter) moreso than Omiyale.

 

In the end it's the sum of the parts that makes the best team and as badly as I'd like to have a guy like Oher at #18 we might not get that option. Instead of reaching big time to fill a hole I prefer to keep some options open.

[dawhizz]

If you take JA at his word (a scary proposition for sure), then he's looking at Omiyale at guard, not tackle. Therefore, the depth chart going into the draft would likely be something like:

 

LT: Chris Williams, John St. Clair, Cody Balogh

LG: Josh Beekman, Dan Buenning, Frank Omiyale

C: Olin Kreutz, Josh Beekman

RG: Roberto Garza, Terrence Metcalf, Frank Omiyale

RT: John St. Clair, Frank Omiyale

 

I think a lot of the interst in signing St. Clair is the knowledge that Williams will be coming off an injury, so you want to know you have a guy on the roster who can fill in capably at LT. That's a pretty flexible roster, but knowing that Angelo traditionally likes to build from the lines, you don't have a "RT of the future." That said, the first round isn't traditionally the place you get a RT, you generally look there in rounds 2-4. So while signing St. Clair may take RT off the board in the first, I think it might keep it in play in the subsequent rounds.

[Stinger226]

I could live w/ that, somewhat. But I actually fear that if we get St. Clair, we would not even look heavily at OL in the 2nd round. If we get St. Clair, I can easily see Angelo believing we have our starting LT and RT, and only need depth. When he needs OL depth, he most often looks in late day two of the draft for that.

 

Think about this. The only two times Angelo has drafted OT high was when it was a position of dire desperation (Columbo/Williams). Otherwise, the OL is something Angelo looks for much much later in the draft. And that is my fear.

 

If we were to get St. Clair, then draft a WR in the 1st and OL in the 2nd, I would be okay w/ that, especially if neither Oher, nor Smith were on the board for us in the 1st. But I simply fear we would be more likely to start looking for OL in the 4th round or later thinking we only need depth.

I think Jerry will draft a OT in the first two rounds whether we sign St Clair or not. Williams hasnt proven anything yet and St Clair has only a few left if he does sign. He sees what we see, I just cant figure out his lack of adding some help in FAgency.

[nfoligno]

From the Trib,

 

There has been no movement in talks with offensive tackle John St. Clair, whom the Bears have identified as their top off-season priority. St. Clair would take over the right tackle spot vacated by John Tait, who is set to retire.

 

"Top off-season priority" "take over at RT" While most of us consider SC solid depth and a pretty good value due to his versatility, it sure seems like our staff simply believe him to be a solid starting RT.

 

While I am not saying we would pass for sure on OTs in the earlier part of the draft, if we signed SC, I do think the odds are better than not. If we sign SC, we will then have added (in Angelo's mind) a starting OG (Omiyale) and RT, and thus will only be looking for depth. In past year, when looking for OL depth, he wouldn't begin until the 4th, and usually not until the 6th.

 

If you take JA at his word (a scary proposition for sure), then he's looking at Omiyale at guard, not tackle. Therefore, the depth chart going into the draft would likely be something like:

 

LT: Chris Williams, John St. Clair, Cody Balogh

LG: Josh Beekman, Dan Buenning, Frank Omiyale

C: Olin Kreutz, Josh Beekman

RG: Roberto Garza, Terrence Metcalf, Frank Omiyale

RT: John St. Clair, Frank Omiyale

 

I think a lot of the interst in signing St. Clair is the knowledge that Williams will be coming off an injury, so you want to know you have a guy on the roster who can fill in capably at LT. That's a pretty flexible roster, but knowing that Angelo traditionally likes to build from the lines, you don't have a "RT of the future." That said, the first round isn't traditionally the place you get a RT, you generally look there in rounds 2-4. So while signing St. Clair may take RT off the board in the first, I think it might keep it in play in the subsequent rounds.

[nfoligno]

In an ideal world, I absolutely would prefer to sign SC, thus keeping our options open in the draft. But this is not a perfect world, as we Bear fans know all to well. You seem to think I am only considering the 1st round, or maybe Oher. But my concern is that we would pass on OL round 2, round 3 and who knows how long after. If we sign SC, in Angelo's mind, I think we have our bookend OTs. We have already signed Omiyale, who may be looked at for OG, but if needed, could swing outside (ala St. Clair). So heading into the draft, he would want to add OL depth, but in the past, when in the draft would he add OL depth? I think twice he went OL as high as the 4th, but otherwise it was a bunch of 6th and 7th rounders.

 

That is my fear. Not that we pass on OL in the 1st who would likely be a reach anyway (Britton), but that we continue to pass in rounds after w/ Angelo believing our starting group is set.

 

I simply do not believe angelo places as high of a value on individual OL players, particularly in the draft. Thus, when our pick comes up, OL simply are not going to be the top rated players on our board. So unless we have desperate need, as we did his first draft and last, we ends up taking just about any other position. Think about last year. Just because we signed Williams didn't negate our OL needs, and yet he was drafting positions we were deep at, or players who were VERY unlikely to see the field. He was taking a 4th DE or 3rd TE when we still had starting questions on the OL. I think we would see more of the same this year, but w/o the 1st round OL.

 

So I understand the bird in hand thing, but fear signing SC would be a step backward more than forward.

 

I disagree. I think a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. In other words sign St Clair. Of course if he's on the roster it does shape our draft in a different way because we don't have to be so desperate for an OT and it allows us to wait a bit and pick one up in Rd 2 or 3. However, I don't view that problem being JA as much as the fact there is no way to know how the draft will play out. If we knew going in that we'd get one of the top RTs at #18 then no problem but if they are gone do we want to be forced to grab a guy really early? I prefer to keep our options open in case there's a WR we really like at #18, or say a QB like Sanchez. It also keeps the door open for drafting Duke Robinson in Rd 2 instead of an OT, or a FS like Delmas in Rd 2.

 

I have some thoughts on the St Clair negotiating process too. St Clair said he wants to be a starter. I think we've offered him a fair deal but JA did not guarantee him he'd be a starter. We want him back and will allow him to compete for a starting job. I think this was more clear when we signed Omiyale, a guy who looked decent in his one start at LT last year, and then said we want to move him inside. I don't think he was signed for the reason at all, instead I think that's a ploy to let St Clair think he'll have a better shot at starting RT for us.

 

St Clair has proven he has value playing inside as well so I prefer him for that role (backup or starter) moreso than Omiyale.

 

In the end it's the sum of the parts that makes the best team and as badly as I'd like to have a guy like Oher at #18 we might not get that option. Instead of reaching big time to fill a hole I prefer to keep some options open.

[Connorbear]

From the Trib,

 

There has been no movement in talks with offensive tackle John St. Clair, whom the Bears have identified as their top off-season priority. St. Clair would take over the right tackle spot vacated by John Tait, who is set to retire.

 

"Top off-season priority" "take over at RT" While most of us consider SC solid depth and a pretty good value due to his versatility, it sure seems like our staff simply believe him to be a solid starting RT.

 

While I am not saying we would pass for sure on OTs in the earlier part of the draft, if we signed SC, I do think the odds are better than not. If we sign SC, we will then have added (in Angelo's mind) a starting OG (Omiyale) and RT, and thus will only be looking for depth. In past year, when looking for OL depth, he wouldn't begin until the 4th, and usually not until the 6th.

So Vaughn McClure says the Bears have identified St. Clair as their top priority. I am curious if he is talking out his arse or if he can actually quote someone on the Bears who said this publicly. I don't remember hearing this at all. I would assume if he was their top priority he would have been signed before FA started.

 

Peace

[Stinger226]

In an ideal world, I absolutely would prefer to sign SC, thus keeping our options open in the draft. But this is not a perfect world, as we Bear fans know all to well. You seem to think I am only considering the 1st round, or maybe Oher. But my concern is that we would pass on OL round 2, round 3 and who knows how long after. If we sign SC, in Angelo's mind, I think we have our bookend OTs. We have already signed Omiyale, who may be looked at for OG, but if needed, could swing outside (ala St. Clair). So heading into the draft, he would want to add OL depth, but in the past, when in the draft would he add OL depth? I think twice he went OL as high as the 4th, but otherwise it was a bunch of 6th and 7th rounders.

 

That is my fear. Not that we pass on OL in the 1st who would likely be a reach anyway (Britton), but that we continue to pass in rounds after w/ Angelo believing our starting group is set.

 

I simply do not believe angelo places as high of a value on individual OL players, particularly in the draft. Thus, when our pick comes up, OL simply are not going to be the top rated players on our board. So unless we have desperate need, as we did his first draft and last, we ends up taking just about any other position. Think about last year. Just because we signed Williams didn't negate our OL needs, and yet he was drafting positions we were deep at, or players who were VERY unlikely to see the field. He was taking a 4th DE or 3rd TE when we still had starting questions on the OL. I think we would see more of the same this year, but w/o the 1st round OL.

 

So I understand the bird in hand thing, but fear signing SC would be a step backward more than forward.

My fear is we dont sign SC and still dont draft a tackle till the 3rd or 4th round. I want SC resigned and worry about the draft when the draft gets here.

[bowlingtwig]

My fear is we dont sign SC and still dont draft a tackle till the 3rd or 4th round. I want SC resigned and worry about the draft when the draft gets here.

That would not be good. I think I would be sick to my stomach if that were to happen. We need to draft an OT in the 1st or the 2nd round at least. Preferably in the 1st with a WR in the 2nd round.

[Wesson44]

This is the line up that I would rather have. IMHO I think Kruetz and Garza are the weak links on this team. Both are always getting blocked into the backfield. With the Tank Omiyale & mean Buenning on each side of him he could actually play better.

 

LT: Chris Williams, John St. Clair, Cody Balogh

LG: Dan Buenning Josh Beekman, Frank Omiyale

C: Olin Kreutz, Josh Beekman

RG:Frank Omiyale Roberto Garza, Terrence Metcalf,

RT: John St. Clair, Draft pick

[bowlingtwig]

This is the line up that I would rather have. IMHO I think Kruetz and Garza are the weak links on this team. Both are always getting blocked into the backfield. With the Tank Omiyale & mean Buenning on each side of him he could actually play better.

 

LT: Chris Williams, John St. Clair, Cody Balogh

LG: Dan Buenning Josh Beekman, Frank Omiyale

C: Olin Kreutz, Josh Beekman

RG:Frank Omiyale Roberto Garza, Terrence Metcalf,

RT: John St. Clair, Draft pick

 

 

That line would make me real scared. Omiyale hasn't proven anything and neither has Buenning. Between the 2 of them they have 1 career start. If you Omiyale starting I want Beekman on the other side of Kruetz.

[clnr]

That line would make me real scared. Omiyale hasn't proven anything and neither has Buenning. Between the 2 of them they have 1 career start. If you Omiyale starting I want Beekman on the other side of Kruetz.

Buenning has 23 starts for Tampa. He played well there until his injurie and Tampa had already moved on by drafting the kid out of Rutgers (Zuttah) that impressed them last year!

[Noots]

Good catch on Buenning. I would keep an eye on him as he's far enough removed from the injury and has now been in Turner's offense long enough to show us whether or not he's worth keeping around ahead of a guy like Metcalf. Further, he'd be a great fit to supplant Garza at RG. The league is littered with guys like him, who after playing a bit for one team, sort of losing their home, and then find another team and go on to a very long and successful career.

 

Omiyale seems a guy that gives you a log of versatility, but as it's been pointed out, is unproven. I think he's an insurance policy that they hope to develop, and may indeed be grooming him as a left side player at either LT or LG. The writing is on the wall that Beekman is the starter at LG until Kreutz hangs 'em up at C. So Omiyale could be groomed to plug in there in the not so far future. If the kid with the back issues (Williams) turns out to be another blown draft pick, we'll be certain to get a long look at Omiyale.

 

I'm with nfo' on St. Clair. I don't share the notion that many do that he's a good interior player. I don't care for his footwork as a pulling guard. His best spot is RT, but I don't want St. Clair back because I'd like to see an upgrade as opposed to the status quo. I like the Khalif Barnes suggestions I've been reading (bradjock's guy--I'm on the bandwagon, I call shotgun!). I'd also be pleased with selecting a mammoth people mover for the RT spot in the draft. Remember, Turner's offense is predicated on power running and quick timing passes. You can very easily get away with a RT that sacrifices a bit in pass protection but makes up for it in run blocking. I just don't see St. Clair as that road grating RT. We could cover up his weaknesses in the pass protection but wouldn't gain much on the ground. Heck, we were able to do it a bunch last year with him at LT. I haven't scoured YouTube highlight reels and gone through the draft info as heavily as I've wanted to yet, but will tell you my early favorite among the OTs in the draft is Jamon Meredith of South Carolina. Seems he could play either OT, moves really well, strong as a house, and has the frame to add 15 pounds without being a slob.

 

Now, I could be dead wrong on what I'm going to propose, but here's what I would LIKE to see for next year on the OL:

 

LT: Williams, Omiyale, Baloney

LG: Beekman, Omiyale

C: Kreutz, Garza, Beekman

RG: Buenning, Garza

RT: Rookie/K. Barnes, Rookie

 

And then two years down the road, we could look like this, and have really completely turned over the line in terms of age and I'm going to leave out the depth because who knows how the stuff behind the scenes will shake out:

 

LT: Williams

LG: Omiyale

C: Beekman

RG: Buenning

RT: Barnes