Should we just trade for Holt?

[nfoligno]

It seems like everyone is waiting for Holt to be released, which is most likely to happen soon. As I understand it, he is due to receive about $1.5m in bonus money on 3/17, and Stl is expected to cut him prior to that, but should we wait?

 

The top reason he has not drawn trade intest is his contract. I think his 2009 base salary is in the neighborhood of $6.5m, and when you add the bonus, his salary/cap hit for 2009 is quite high. This has prevented teams for looking to trade for him, even though Stl is reportely only looking for a mid/late day two pick in return.

 

But I am reading about more and more teams who are interested in him, and will likely make a run at him. The question I have is, would he want to come to Chicago if he was on the market? If teams w/ better QB situations and/or better teams are making a run at him, what are the odds of him willingly coming to the team "where WRs come to die"?

 

Giving up a late round pick for Holt is not an issue IMHO. The issue is his current contract. But (a) if we trade for him, then we get him, while we are at serious risk of not getting him if the choice is his ( while his 2009 money would be high, we would not have to worry about a decent sized SB or longer term deal, which may be necessary to entice him to come to Chicago and © w/ the amount of cap space we have, it isn't like we can't afford him. What the hell else are we going to do w/ all the cap space we have.

 

So instead of sitting back and waiting for him to be released, why not just send Stl a late round pick and get him.

[dawhizz]

I was thinking the same thing, but it depends on what St. Louis is asking for. I tried to find an article that indicated what St. Louis wanted in a trade and couldn't find anything. The presumption is that they would take anything, but that's not always the case. I think I would be comfortable giving up to a 5th round pick for him if it meant we could avoid trying to outbid other teams for him. But I also have to wonder if the Bears would need to make sure he's comfortable coming here first. I don't want to trade for him and find out he had his heart set on the Jets or something. He doesn't seem like that kind of guy, but who knows.

[Connorbear]

I would be willing to give up a 4th for him. I am assuming we will get a 3rd round comp pick for Berrian so we will really won't be losing a pick.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

I'm ALL for it...

 

It seems like everyone is waiting for Holt to be released, which is most likely to happen soon. As I understand it, he is due to receive about $1.5m in bonus money on 3/17, and Stl is expected to cut him prior to that, but should we wait?

 

The top reason he has not drawn trade intest is his contract. I think his 2009 base salary is in the neighborhood of $6.5m, and when you add the bonus, his salary/cap hit for 2009 is quite high. This has prevented teams for looking to trade for him, even though Stl is reportely only looking for a mid/late day two pick in return.

 

But I am reading about more and more teams who are interested in him, and will likely make a run at him. The question I have is, would he want to come to Chicago if he was on the market? If teams w/ better QB situations and/or better teams are making a run at him, what are the odds of him willingly coming to the team "where WRs come to die"?

 

Giving up a late round pick for Holt is not an issue IMHO. The issue is his current contract. But (a) if we trade for him, then we get him, while we are at serious risk of not getting him if the choice is his ( while his 2009 money would be high, we would not have to worry about a decent sized SB or longer term deal, which may be necessary to entice him to come to Chicago and © w/ the amount of cap space we have, it isn't like we can't afford him. What the hell else are we going to do w/ all the cap space we have.

 

So instead of sitting back and waiting for him to be released, why not just send Stl a late round pick and get him.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Absolutely I would.

[defiantgiant]

I would be willing to give up a 4th for him. I am assuming we will get a 3rd round comp pick for Berrian so we will really won't be losing a pick.

 

Peace

 

I don't think we'd even need a 4th. Apparently he was being shopped at the Senior Bowl, in a package deal with Orlando Pace, for a 3rd (EDIT: that's one third-rounder in exchange for both players. Ridiculous.) I think a 5th or even a 6th would get it done at this point. The Rams have to know that they're not drawing any trade interest, since it's common knowledge that they have to either cut him or give him $1.25 million a week from now. They just announced that he's not invited to minicamp, so they're making it pretty plain that they're ready to cut him. At this point, I think they'd be happy just to get some value for him.

 

Maybe he'd be willing to renegotiate his contract after a trade, maybe not. Either way, Chicago needs to make this move. They've got the cap room, and giving up a 6th-round pick to jump the line is fine by me. If he hits FA, other teams are going to try to sign him. If the Bears trade, they don't have to worry about it.

[chwtom]

We definitely should, and a 6th would probably be plenty. But I don't think we will, because I don't think Angelo has much room for upgrades right now.

[bradjock]

It sounds damn good in theory, but my guess is that it's not that simple. The key factor IMO is that Holt would have to agree to the trade and be happy with it. At this point Holt is asking the Rams to release him. That means Holt wants to be paid. Technically, the Bears could play hard-ball with him and make him play out his contract (Is it after 2009 he's a free agent?) But the Bears aren't going to trade for a guy just so he can piss and moan & hold out.

 

In the NFL, like when we traded Thomas Jones, there's almost always a deal in place.

 

Which means we're not talking so much about what it would cost to trade for Holt, but how much would we pay for him. He's a year older then Housh, and a much more accomplished wide receiver. My guess is he'll be asking for 4-5 years, 40 million with 15 guaranteed. Will we pay that for a 33 year old?

 

Then there is the question of how good Holt could be with the Bears. His speed has dropped off and he's always excelled playing in the dome on turf. My fear is he'd be the next WR that came here to die.

 

Great theory, but it's not going to happen.

 

 

 

It seems like everyone is waiting for Holt to be released, which is most likely to happen soon. As I understand it, he is due to receive about $1.5m in bonus money on 3/17, and Stl is expected to cut him prior to that, but should we wait?

 

The top reason he has not drawn trade intest is his contract. I think his 2009 base salary is in the neighborhood of $6.5m, and when you add the bonus, his salary/cap hit for 2009 is quite high. This has prevented teams for looking to trade for him, even though Stl is reportely only looking for a mid/late day two pick in return.

 

But I am reading about more and more teams who are interested in him, and will likely make a run at him. The question I have is, would he want to come to Chicago if he was on the market? If teams w/ better QB situations and/or better teams are making a run at him, what are the odds of him willingly coming to the team "where WRs come to die"?

 

Giving up a late round pick for Holt is not an issue IMHO. The issue is his current contract. But (a) if we trade for him, then we get him, while we are at serious risk of not getting him if the choice is his ( while his 2009 money would be high, we would not have to worry about a decent sized SB or longer term deal, which may be necessary to entice him to come to Chicago and © w/ the amount of cap space we have, it isn't like we can't afford him. What the hell else are we going to do w/ all the cap space we have.

 

So instead of sitting back and waiting for him to be released, why not just send Stl a late round pick and get him.

[DrunkBomber]

It sounds damn good in theory, but my guess is that it's not that simple. The key factor IMO is that Holt would have to agree to the trade and be happy with it. At this point Holt is asking the Rams to release him. That means Holt wants to be paid. Technically, the Bears could play hard-ball with him and make him play out his contract (Is it after 2009 he's a free agent?) But the Bears aren't going to trade for a guy just so he can piss and moan & hold out.

 

In the NFL, like when we traded Thomas Jones, there's almost always a deal in place.

 

Which means we're not talking so much about what it would cost to trade for Holt, but how much would we pay for him. He's a year older then Housh, and a much more accomplished wide receiver. My guess is he'll be asking for 4-5 years, 40 million with 15 guaranteed. Will we pay that for a 33 year old?

 

Then there is the question of how good Holt could be with the Bears. His speed has dropped off and he's always excelled playing in the dome on turf. My fear is he'd be the next WR that came here to die.

 

Great theory, but it's not going to happen.

I dont think Holt is looking for some monster contract. He isnt going to get what TJ did. Hes on a team in transition that doesnt want him. He will be affordable for us.

[bradjock]

I dont think Holt is looking for some monster contract. He isnt going to get what TJ did. Hes on a team in transition that doesnt want him. He will be affordable for us.

 

T.J. Housh is 31, caught for 904 yards & 4 TD's on a horrible offense. He signed for 5 years, 40 million, 15 guaranteed, and had several teams chasing him.

 

Right now Holt is 32, and he caught for 796 yards, 3 TD's on a horrible offense. He'll be a candidate for the hall of fame.

 

Why do you think he wouldn't want to get paid? More importantly, why would he make himself affordable to the Bears when:

1. All the teams who didn't get Housh will be going after him (and we didn't even pursue Housh)

2. The Bears have bad QB's and bad field conditions.

[nfoligno]

It sounds damn good in theory, but my guess is that it's not that simple. The key factor IMO is that Holt would have to agree to the trade and be happy with it. At this point Holt is asking the Rams to release him. That means Holt wants to be paid. Technically, the Bears could play hard-ball with him and make him play out his contract (Is it after 2009 he's a free agent?) But the Bears aren't going to trade for a guy just so he can piss and moan & hold out.

One, I am not sure I would agree w/, "he wants to be paid". At least not the way it sounds. He knows he is going to be cut. Everyone knows it. He simply wants it done sooner rather than later, while there is still a market out there. That doesn't mean he is seeking a big deal, but wanting to him the market while there are still teams that might be interested.

 

Two. "piss and moan". Um, when have you ever heard about Holt being anything but a solid, positive character. I think it a tad unfair to Holt to assume such a weak character when he has never proven anything of the sort. Also, what is there to complain about if he gets the $6.5m base plus $1.25 bonus he would be due. Not sure what sort of contract you think he might get on the FA market, but I think you are over-valuing him if you think he will get more than that for one year.

 

Three. I don't see him having to sign off on the deal, nor do I see this a situation where we have to ask him if he is okay w/ it. I just do not see him as the sort, and others who have written articles agree, he is the type to simply give it his all on the field.

 

In the NFL, like when we traded Thomas Jones, there's almost always a deal in place.

 

Has KC signed Cassel to a new deal yet?

 

Which means we're not talking so much about what it would cost to trade for Holt, but how much would we pay for him. He's a year older then Housh, and a much more accomplished wide receiver. My guess is he'll be asking for 4-5 years, 40 million with 15 guaranteed. Will we pay that for a 33 year old?

 

Sorry, but I don't see Holt getting what TJ Hous got, which is the numbers you are talking about. Holt is older, and w/ more wear and tear. Further, he is coming off a sub year, and too many questioning how much he has lost. I realize he isn't "that" much older than TJ, but here is the key. Most all, including you below, are questioning whether he has lost it, how much he has lost, and how much he has left in the tank. I recall none of the same questions w/ TJ. Some may have wondered about signing him to a long term contract, but I read none who were questioning if he has already begun the drop. Most have w/ Holt, and he is simply not going to get the same deal.

 

Then there is the question of how good Holt could be with the Bears. His speed has dropped off and he's always excelled playing in the dome on turf. My fear is he'd be the next WR that came here to die.

 

Sorry, but I think you are a tad nuts on this. How much would he help the bears? Come on. His speed could drop off. His eyes could begin to go bad. His hands could suffer from beginning stages of arthritis. And guess what. He would still be an upgrade over what we have. Holt may not have the speed to be the homerun threat on every down, but he is still a great route runner, w/ great hands, who would be a fantastic compliment for Hester.

 

I think that is the key. I think you think I, the bears, or anyone still considers him a #1. I think most view him as a great #2 at this point, which is how I view him, and how I think he would help the bears.

 

Great theory, but it's not going to happen.

 

Wasn't a theory. It was an idea/question I threw out the to board. I know it isn't going to happen. Angelo loves his 2nd day picks so much he trades down in the early rounds to stock up on late round picks.

[Stinger226]

Why man, why! Why must you consistently post little truths that make me want projectile vomit. Wait... Better now. My answer is YES. I have always thought the world of Holt. Give him 2 years 14 mil and screw JA's practice sqaud fodder.

Everybody explain to me if he is released, why would he want to come here? Poor passing game, outdoor weather, not going to be high bidder. He will have several bidders that will offer more in a better place than here.

[Mongo3451]

Everybody explain to me if he is released, why would he want to come here? Poor passing game, outdoor weather, not going to be high bidder. He will have several bidders that will offer more in a better place than here.

The topic is: "Should We Just Trade for Holt?" Anyway, he's not a Prima Donna. He will suit up for any team that he feels can win. If he goes to free agency, he will get to pick and choose, not if we trade for him.

[Connorbear]

The topic is: "Should We Just Trade for Holt?" Anyway, he's not a Prima Donna. He will suit up for any team that he feels can win. If he goes to free agency, he will get to pick and choose, not if we trade for him.

Mongo - accidentally deleted your response above. I thought it was a duplicate. My apologies.

 

Peace

[bradjock]

[b]Two. "piss and moan". Um, when have you ever heard about Holt being anything but a solid, positive character. I think it a tad unfair to Holt to assume such a weak character when he has never proven anything of the sort.

 

True, but the exact same thing could have been said about Brett Favre a couple of years ago.

 

Also, what is there to complain about if he gets the $6.5m base plus $1.25 bonus he would be due. Not sure what sort of contract you think he might get on the FA market, but I think you are over-valuing him if you think he will get more than that for one

 

In 2007 Holt when for 1200 yards & 7 touchdowns. He's younger then TO, and he's not a piece of crap. I don't know how much he'll get, but it'll be one helluva a lot more then what TO received. Think about how many teams wanted Housh.

 

For me it comes down to the fact no team has wanted to trade for him.

 

Maybe, or it could be that Holt's agent has expressed that his client won't be happy going to any team. Neither one of us know for sure, but I'm surprised he hasn't drawn any interest in trades.

 

Has KC signed Cassel to a new deal yet?

 

No, but Cassel is a not the norm. If Tom Brady returns, Cassel is back to the bench, and how much is he worth then? Also, there was speculation a tentative deal was in place, but not finalized because the Chiefs have tons of cap room & their in no hurry.

 

Sorry, but I don't see Holt getting what TJ Hous got, which is the numbers you are talking about. Holt is older, and w/ more wear and tear. Further, he is coming off a sub year, and too many questioning how much he has lost. I realize he isn't "that" much older than TJ, but here is the key. Most all, including you below, are questioning whether he has lost it, how much he has lost, and how much he has left in the tank. I recall none of the same questions w/ TJ. Some may have wondered about signing him to a long term contract, but I read none who were questioning if he has already begun the drop. Most have w/ Holt, and he is simply not going to get the same deal.

 

He's lost a step, but he's still considered a #1. Teams will pay for that.

 

Sorry, but I think you are a tad nuts on this. How much would he help the bears? Come on. His speed could drop off. His eyes could begin to go bad. His hands could suffer from beginning stages of arthritis. And guess what. He would still be an upgrade over what we have. Holt may not have the speed to be the homerun threat on every down, but he is still a great route runner, w/ great hands, who would be a fantastic compliment for Hester. I think that is the key. I think you think I, the bears, or anyone still considers him a #1. I think most view him as a great #2 at this point, which is how I view him, and how I think he would help the bears. [/b]

 

I can't argue that he'd improve the Bears, I was just pointing out that it may not be worth paying an ass-load of money (which you can't convince me he won't receive) to run down field and let Orton over-shoot him by 20 yards.

[nfoligno]

True, but the exact same thing could have been said about Brett Favre a couple of years ago.

 

Un, how far back are you going w/ Favre? He's been bitchin and moaning about his contract and other things for a while now.

 

In 2007 Holt when for 1200 yards & 7 touchdowns. He's younger then TO, and he's not a piece of crap. I don't know how much he'll get, but it'll be one helluva a lot more then what TO received. Think about how many teams wanted Housh.

Was Holt ever considered as elite as TO? I don't think so. Holt's game was based far more around speed, while TO's wasn't, and thus if the believe if he has lost a step, than is a pretty big knock.

 

Honestly, I just think he will not get the sort of coin you think.

 

Maybe, or it could be that Holt's agent has expressed that his client won't be happy going to any team. Neither one of us know for sure, but I'm surprised he hasn't drawn any interest in trades.

 

Sure, we can't know for sure, but most media (and we both know they are always right ) seem to all tell the same story. Teams are not jumping to trade for him because (a) the expect him to be a FA soon and ( no one wants to add him w/ the contract that comes along w/ him. That 2nd point, if true, is also a big reason I think you may be surprised by the deal he eventually signs.

 

He's lost a step, but he's still considered a #1. Teams will pay for that.

 

Is he. Seems like most everything I have read implies different. I have read few who believe he is still a #1, as most believe him to be a great #2 at this point, but no longer a #1.

 

I can't argue that he'd improve the Bears, I was just pointing out that it may not be worth paying an ass-load of money (which you can't convince me he won't receive) to run down field and let Orton over-shoot him by 20 yards.

 

One. He is not the sort of WR who is going to be running tons of downfield patterns. He is, and has been for a while now, the sort of WR who runs short and mid slants, makes the catch in stride, and then does the rest w/ RAC. Take a look at his YPC. From 1999 through 2004, his YPC was never below 14. Then it went to 13, 12.8, 12.8 and 12.4. He is still a great WR in many ways, but he is not the downfield threat I think you remember.

 

Two. You comment about not paying a WR who Orton will over-shoot, then what is the point of even moving forward. If you feel Orton is that bad, what is the point of even thinking about upgrades. I guess you don't want any WRs in the draft who have speed? I don't know. That just seemed like a very defeatist comment.

 

Three. Cost. I am not sure either of us truly know what the cost is, but I will tell you this. While I am not going to say I want him at any cost, I think this may be one of our best opportunities in some time. Everything the bears WRs fail at is what Holt excels at. For all the comments of our coaches inability to develop, in Holt you have a WR who needs none. For all the comments about prima dona WRs, and whether they are worth the headache or not, in Holt you get a damn good WR w/o the crap. For all those who question Orton, Holt should help provide an answer. Want to know if Orton can be more than a short term starter for us. Well, the current personnel is not going to help answer that question, but Holt could.