azbearsfan Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I said this about Smith, "Smith at #18 is a no brainer and would actually be our best LT option." Put down the taroh cards when you read posts. Anyway, can you name other players that were rumored to one of the top picks in the draft that fell like Sapp and Moss? Another poster said it happens all the time and my memory doesn't serve me well on the issue. As far as Mike Williams is concerned; that's not how I recall him. I remember people talking about how slow he was and at 240 he possibly could be a TE. How far did he fall anyway? All the way to #8. Huge collapse from 3 or 4. lol. You also implied that he was in the same league as Randy Moss and Warren Sapp. Two first ballot HOFers (your words). And how did Mike Williams career turn out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 If, and a BIG if Andre Smith is available at 18, there's no hesitating on drafting him. The worst the kid could do is be a Probowl RT or LG. All this negative news on him about being out of shape, skipping the combine is only going to give a team slotted around 10 a great chance to draft a good offensive lineman. All these tackles in the draft are first graded/ranked to play LT. Britton is the only OT so far that scouts are saying is better suited to play the RT spot because of his short arms and lateral movement. The rest of the OT's can be starting LT's in the league, and if they aren't probowl caliber there, move them to RT where the less skilled DE is, the better the OT looks. Andre's problem in my eye is he is still a little immature. He's still a kid in a monster body. Jason Smith and him both had trouble/failed to get an agent and the agent is usually the one putting these players in camps to prepare them for the combine/nfl. If you get a chance, watch some NFL network channel when there covering path to the draft. They have some segement's on Smith and you can see he's not a bad apple. He got a unfortunate late start on preparing for the combine and hasn't had the greatest support (agent) to bring him along. If I were in JA's shoe's and he was available at the 10 spot, I'd be calling trying to find out what it would take to get this kid. The worst the kid could do is wash out of the league. However, if we get him I hope that he is as good as all you guys say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 lol. You also implied that he was in the same league as Randy Moss and Warren Sapp. Two first ballot HOFers (your words). And how did Mike Williams career turn out? What is your point? I never said he was in Moss and Sapp league. Re-read the post. They were brought up as a point to HIGHLY regarded picks that fell hard due to, other than talent and skill issues. Again, read what I posted about Williams. Especially the fact that he did not fall far, so he is moot in the conversation. If you want to debate a point, please have one by bringing something more than estrogen laden pointless remarks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 What is your point? I never said he was in Moss and Sapp league. Re-read the post. They were brought up as a point to HIGHLY regarded picks that fell hard due to, other than talent and skill issues. Again, read what I posted about Williams. Especially the fact that he did not fall far, so he is moot in the conversation. If you want to debate a point, please have one by bringing something more than estrogen laden pointless remarks. Bro. Simmer down. When you say that the last big name picks to fall this far were HOFers Moss and Sapp, clearly you are comparing Smith to them. So, as you yourself say, they fell because of issues other than their workouts, what is the connection to Smith? Doesn't really fit into an argument on Smith based on his workouts and reports of him being a nice kid. I could ask you, what is your point? Williams was brought up to give an example of someone who didn't have great workouts, made some poor choices along the way, yet fans were saying the same things. Like "I'd rather have a football player than a workout warrior", etc. My point was that, it is these types of things that raise a red flag for me and if we get a chance to pick Smith that I hope his career wont be like Mike Williams. BTW you really got me good with the estrogen comment. Very witty indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 If we are talking about Angelo would do, I agree he would be more likely to go after Britton than Smith, but that is Angelo. Especially after Angelo was burned by Benson, I have a hard time seeing him go after another player in the 1st w/ character issues. I can't really argue against that since technically that is pretty much every players floor. He may be more likely than others to find it but his red flags are different in the sense that they suddenly showed up. When you look at guys like Moss those issues were surrounding the player since high school and stayed all throughout college. I don't Smith's background at all but it doesn't appear that way with him. It seems he got caught up in his own press clippings and let it go to his head in the last 6 months. It's still pretty stupid what he's done but to take this around and question his family background for a lack of guidance as others have done doesn't make sense to anyone who has raised several kids through their teenage years and into their 20's. At some point most teens or young adults struggle finding their balance between work and the fun things in life. Staring at a $40mil salary would have affected me when I was 21, and not for the best. If I were a GM the question I'd be pressing my scouts to answer is what was this kid like his first couple years at school? Was he working hard early on? Here's some of his accomplishments that indicate he was. How do you start at LT as a freshman and perform like he did if you don't put some work in? Playing through games with both ankles sprained? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1255104 ------------------------------------------------ An impressive physical specimen who compares to Dallas Cowboys' guard Leonard Davis, Smith possesses outstanding agility and quickness for his size. Regarded as a premier offensive line prospect out of high school and one of the standouts of the 2005 recruiting class, he went on to establish himself as the elite at the college level, as evidenced by being named the recipient of the 2008 Outland Trophy. Even at 343 pounds, Smith displays excellent foot speed and agility. He started every game (38) in which he played for the Crimson Tide, missing the 2009 Sugar Bowl when he was ruled ineligible for direct contact with an agent. In addition to earning the Outland Trophy in 2008, he was won Alabama's Paul Crane Offensive Lineman Award, shared the Southeastern Conference's Jacobs Blocking Trophy with Arkansas' Jonathan Luigs, was twice chosen an All-SEC first-team pick and added consensus All-American first-team notice in 2008. ....Smith enrolled at Alabama in 2005, taking over at left tackle. He became the seventh true freshman in school history to start in his first career game since 1972...He delivered 70 knockdown blocks as he led the team by being on the field for 831 offensive and special teams plays. Smith garnered team Player of the Week honors four times during his sophomore season, when he shed over 25 pounds from his once 370-pound frame prior to the season opener. He started all 13 games, as he was named All-SEC and earned the league's Jacobs Blocking Trophy. He led the conference down linemen with 116 knockdowns and had fifteen touchdown-resulting blocks while allowing only 1.5 quarterback sacks on 472 pass plays. He was penalized five times and played the second part of the season with a left ankle sprain suffered vs. Tennessee and a right ankle sprain incurred the next week in the Louisiana State clash. As a junior, Smith was a consensus All-American and unanimous All-SEC first-team pick. The Outland Trophy and Jacobs Blocking Trophy recipient saw his campaign get off to a rough start. He suffered a knee sprain in the season opener vs. Clemson that forced him to sit out the following week vs. Tulane and play just two quarters upon his return, vs. Western Kentucky. He also sprained his elbow in the season's sixth contest vs. Kentucky, but still delivered 103 knockdowns while pacing SEC blockers with seventeen touchdown-resulting blocks. ----------------------------------------------- and some things that say he's not a hard worker but does seem to love playing the game: ------------------------------------------------------------ Character: Runs hot and cold. The coaches have cited "growing pains," especially with his work ethic. He gets by a lot on physical talent and while his suspension was well-publicized, there have been other "minor" issues that make one wonder if he will just go through the motions or that he will mature at the next level. GRADE: 5.5 Competitiveness: On the field, Smith will challenge any opponent that dares to get in his way when drive blocking. He knows how to use his explosive upper-body power to punish, but will get lazy during the games and shows inconsistency shooting those powerful hands. There are times when he simply dominates the action, but when he feels that he is not being challenged, he will throttle down. Scouts have often shown concerns about his lack of a consistent motor, especially questioning his overall aggressiveness. GRADE: 6.5 Work Habits: Smith has always battled the "bulge" and while he is best playing at 335-340, he has seen his weight balloon to the 375-380 range, where that added bulk has affected his overall mobility. He needs to be monitored in the training room, but will respond to tough coaching. --------------------------------------------------- and an interesting thought when looking at what his floor might be: ----------------------------------------------------- Compares To: LEONARD DAVIS, Dallas -- Davis is at least two inches taller, but both could be better lined up inside. Davis proved to be a better interior performer after trying to play on the edge. While Smith might be a good fit at right tackle, some prefer him better as an interior lineman, feeling his lack of lateral range (especially moving to his left) is a big concern for a player that must protect the quarterback's blindside. To date, he has made a nice living vs. smaller opponents (average weight of his main blocking assignment over the last two years is 262.4 pounds, more than 80 pounds lighter than Smith), but in the NFL, he will face much bigger and much quicker defensive ends and his excellent straight-line explosiveness will compensate for his lateral mobility problems. -------------------------------------------------- Between the hard working Britton and the highly talented but hot/cold Smith who might end up having to move inside who would JA pick? If he feels he needs more confidence in filling the RT spot now it might be Britton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Az, I at least do get his point. He may use exteme examples, but I think the point he is using is that numerous players w/ perceived elite talent, but w/ character red flags, did turn into studs. I am not sure Mike Williams is a good example. Mike Williams was never considered the best at his position in the draft. I do not recall him ever being rated over Braylon Edwards. Further, he was never considered a lock top 5 pick, much less top 3. Further still, he only fell to the 10th spot. Point is, he didn't exactly fall much. I think the key w/ Smith is risk/reward. In the top 10, there is simply a ton of risk, but at 18, the risk (financial at least) is less, while the reward is still high. Bro. Simmer down. When you say that the last big name picks to fall this far were HOFers Moss and Sapp, clearly you are comparing Smith to them. So, as you yourself say, they fell because of issues other than their workouts, what is the connection to Smith? Doesn't really fit into an argument on Smith based on his workouts and reports of him being a nice kid. I could ask you, what is your point? Williams was brought up to give an example of someone who didn't have great workouts, made some poor choices along the way, yet fans were saying the same things. Like "I'd rather have a football player than a workout warrior", etc. My point was that, it is these types of things that raise a red flag for me and if we get a chance to pick Smith that I hope his career wont be like Mike Williams. BTW you really got me good with the estrogen comment. Very witty indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Yes me too. Remember th TE that the 49ers got that run the 4.4 fourty and all that at the combine? Tell me just what has he done in the NFL. Look at how many players that didn't get invited to the combine that are starting for some teams. Like the Saints RB Thomas who ran for 102 yards and caught passes for another 120 yards in the game we won last year. NO other player has done that to the Bears in history.. So you don't have to have a good workout to be a star player in the NFL Are you talking about Vernon Davis? Because he's pretty good and is now essentially the face of Under Armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Bro. Simmer down. Not angry. I just find it necessary to step up, if I feel my words got twisted around. When you say that the last big name picks to fall this far were HOFers Moss and Sapp, clearly you are comparing Smith to them. So, as you yourself say, they fell because of issues other than their workouts, what is the connection to Smith? Doesn't really fit into an argument on Smith based on his workouts and reports of him being a nice kid. I could ask you, what is your point? I was simply using them as an example of the only "top" players that fell that hard prior to the draft.(that's the only comparison I made) I honestly can't think of any others than those two. The connection to Smith is the elite talent and college production that made these people regarded as top pick talent. My point was that Smith has fallen from grace due to laziness and poor judgement. He has definately hurt himself, but in no way will drop out of the 1st round unless he really messes up. Williams was brought up to give an example of someone who didn't have great workouts, made some poor choices along the way, yet fans were saying the same things. Like "I'd rather have a football player than a workout warrior", etc. My point was that, it is these types of things that raise a red flag for me and if we get a chance to pick Smith that I hope his career wont be like Mike Williams. Thing is with Williams is that there were questions about his speed and work ethic way before the combine. Those are much bigger flags for skill position players than anywhere else. Again, he didn't drop that far anyway. Ha ha Lions.(as they were laughing about Benson) BTW you really got me good with the estrogen comment. Very witty indeed. Sorry, just me being an a$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Not angry. I just find it necessary to step up, if I feel my words got twisted around. I was simply using them as an example of the only "top" players that fell that hard prior to the draft.(that's the only comparison I made) I honestly can't think of any others than those two. The connection to Smith is the elite talent and college production that made these people regarded as top pick talent. My point was that Smith has fallen from grace due to laziness and poor judgement. He has definately hurt himself, but in no way will drop out of the 1st round unless he really messes up. Thing is with Williams is that there were questions about his speed and work ethic way before the combine. Those are much bigger flags for skill position players than anywhere else. Again, he didn't drop that far anyway. Ha ha Lions.(as they were laughing about Benson) Sorry, just me being an a$$. Its all good man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Are you talking about Vernon Davis? Because he's pretty good and is now essentially the face of Under Armour. He's so good Singletary sent him off the field. Not exactly the picture of a blue chip prospect helping his team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 He's so good Singletary sent him off the field. Not exactly the picture of a blue chip prospect helping his team. haha. Yeah. "Can't win with him" that press conference was priceless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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