Enough of Lovie after vick endorsement

[butkusrules]

I've had enough of lovie. Anyone who can argue for hicks return is not someone I want coaching the bears. Period.

[Wesson44]

I've had enough of lovie. Anyone who can argue for hicks return is not someone I want coaching the bears. Period.

Please.....I bet if it were one of your family members you would give them a second chance. Better yet if it were you....would you not want a second chance to prove your worth? I don't condon anything he did but as a person he should be given the chance to make up for the things he did. Remember he who is without sin cast the first stone! No one is perfect and we all need a second chance at whatever we do wrong.

[Pixote]

Please.....I bet if it were one of your family members you would give them a second chance. Better yet if it were you....would you not want a second chance to prove your worth? I don't condon anything he did but as a person he should be given the chance to make up for the things he did. Remember he who is without sin cast the first stone! No one is perfect and we all need a second chance at whatever we do wrong.

 

 

I agree Wesson. I see nothing wrong with what Lovie said.

[Connorbear]

My understanding is Lovie is fairly religious and I would expect him to say what he did. I have no issues with it. The commissioner will ultimately decide Vick's fate.

 

Peace

[BearSox]

I personally feel Lovie's endorsement of Vick comes from the fact they both share the same skin color.

 

Vick is a horrible human being. And until he proves otherwise, he doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the NFL. This guy pretty much killed dogs and raised more dogs to hate, just for money and fun... FOR MANY YEARS! He has a far way to go before he makes ammends for what he has done. A year in prison is laughable considering anyone who isn't very famous and a millionaire would get a whole lot more time.

[akshaz]

I personally feel Lovie's endorsement of Vick comes from the fact they both share the same skin color.

 

Vick is a horrible human being. And until he proves otherwise, he doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the NFL. This guy pretty much killed dogs and raised more dogs to hate, just for money and fun... FOR MANY YEARS! He has a far way to go before he makes ammends for what he has done. A year in prison is laughable considering anyone who isn't very famous and a millionaire would get a whole lot more time.

 

You are a joke. Your race-baiting is crazy, silly, nonsense. Giving a human being a second chance in life has nothing to do with race or skin color you idiot.

 

I don't condone what Vick has done. Who can? But, after losing his freedom, his career and almost all of his assets, don't you think he has paid his debt to society? What punishment will be enough to quench your thirst for revenge? There are murderers of PEOPLE who don't have to pay the cost he has paid. There are people roaming our country who have destroyed lives of thousands and won't spend a day in jail. Yet, you are all lathered up in defense of dogs.

 

I just don't understand the PETA-type folks who love animals far more than people. They are more kind and show more love and forgiveness to a freakin' chihuahua than they would their fellow man.

 

Although he would have clearly paid his debt to society, as expressed by the courts, I know you would prefer to keep him down and punish him over and over again. I guess it's your skin color. (Tongue in cheek, to underline a point.)

[Connorbear]

I personally feel Lovie's endorsement of Vick comes from the fact they both share the same skin color.

 

Vick is a horrible human being. And until he proves otherwise, he doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the NFL. This guy pretty much killed dogs and raised more dogs to hate, just for money and fun... FOR MANY YEARS! He has a far way to go before he makes ammends for what he has done. A year in prison is laughable considering anyone who isn't very famous and a millionaire would get a whole lot more time.

I think dragging race into this discussion is a poor choice and unfortunate. I will leave it at that.

 

I agree Vick is a POS but he has been punished accordingly by the law. Would I want him on the Bears? No. Mostly because he is a POS but also because I think he sucks.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

You are a joke. Your race-baiting is crazy, silly, nonsense. Giving a human being a second chance in life has nothing to do with race or skin color you idiot.

 

I don't condone what Vick has done. Who can? But, after losing his freedom, his career and almost all of his assets, don't you think he has paid his debt to society? What punishment will be enough to quench your thirst for revenge? There are murderers of PEOPLE who don't have to pay the cost he has paid. There are people roaming our country who have destroyed lives of thousands and won't spend a day in jail. Yet, you are all lathered up in defense of dogs.

 

I just don't understand the PETA-type folks who love animals far more than people. They are more kind and show more love and forgiveness to a freakin' chihuahua than they would their fellow man.

 

Although he would have clearly paid his debt to society, as expressed by the courts, I know you would prefer to keep him down and punish him over and over again. I guess it's your skin color. (Tongue in cheek, to underline a point.)

You can say all the things above without calling someone a joke or an idiot. I do not agree with what Bearsox said nor do I agree with you that it is race-baiting. I do feel that you both have the right to express your opinions. As I previously stated, dragging race into this discussion is poor choice and unfortunate.

 

Peace

[DrunkBomber]

Bearsox, you know better than to say something like that on here. Drop the race issue if you guys want to keep this discussion open.

[akshaz]

I agree Vick is a POS but he has been punished accordingly by the law. Would I want him on the Bears? No. Mostly because he is a POS but also because I think he sucks.

 

Peace

 

That's a legitimate question. Vick's game is based a lot on speed and quickness. Not sure if prison took that away. I'd say it's worth it to at least work him out though.

[akshaz]

You can say all the things above without calling someone a joke or an idiot. I do not agree with what Bearsox said nor do I agree with you that it is race-baiting. I do feel that you both have the right to express your opinions. As I previously stated, dragging race into this discussion is poor choice and unfortunate.

 

Peace

 

Sure, I could have left the "idiot" or "joke" part out. But dude, this is clear race-baiting, which is idiotic by nature.

[nfoligno]

It is one thing for a person to get a 2nd chance in life or in society, but that does not mean he deserves a 2nd chance in the NFL.

 

While I am not saying everyone must be a choir boy in the NFL, the reality is we are talking about a league of celebrities watching and followed by millions of children. Due to this, I do believe it is reasonable to see a higher standard.

 

If you want to argue Vick did his time and deserves a 2nd chance, fine. But that doesn't mean he warrants a 2nd chance in every aspect of society. I personally would not allow him back in the NFL. I am sure someone will sign him, but I pray it will not be my team.

 

You are a joke. Your race-baiting is crazy, silly, nonsense. Giving a human being a second chance in life has nothing to do with race or skin color you idiot.

 

I don't condone what Vick has done. Who can? But, after losing his freedom, his career and almost all of his assets, don't you think he has paid his debt to society? What punishment will be enough to quench your thirst for revenge? There are murderers of PEOPLE who don't have to pay the cost he has paid. There are people roaming our country who have destroyed lives of thousands and won't spend a day in jail. Yet, you are all lathered up in defense of dogs.

 

I just don't understand the PETA-type folks who love animals far more than people. They are more kind and show more love and forgiveness to a freakin' chihuahua than they would their fellow man.

 

Although he would have clearly paid his debt to society, as expressed by the courts, I know you would prefer to keep him down and punish him over and over again. I guess it's your skin color. (Tongue in cheek, to underline a point.)

[azbearsfan]

Sure, I could have left the "idiot" or "joke" part out. But dude, this is clear race-baiting, which is idiotic by nature.

 

 

You have to remember Bearsox is in high school still. At that age, the maturity level and the life experiences are just not there. So he may think there is anything is wrong with that comment.

 

 

 

As for Vick, I dont want him. As to wanting Lovie gone for commenting on him. Thats ridiculous.

[akshaz]

It is one thing for a person to get a 2nd chance in life or in society, but that does not mean he deserves a 2nd chance in the NFL.

 

While I am not saying everyone must be a choir boy in the NFL, the reality is we are talking about a league of celebrities watching and followed by millions of children. Due to this, I do believe it is reasonable to see a higher standard.

 

If you want to argue Vick did his time and deserves a 2nd chance, fine. But that doesn't mean he warrants a 2nd chance in every aspect of society. I personally would not allow him back in the NFL. I am sure someone will sign him, but I pray it will not be my team.

 

Reeks of a double standard. There is another topic on this board addressing the value in bringing in a twice offended crack-head. Nobody does the whole "the kids are watching" routine with him.

 

Players can beat their wives, beat their kids, kill people, coke themselves into a stuper, shoot folks, run over people while drunk, spit on opponents. But, nothing deserves expulsion like dog-fighting?? Gimme a break.

 

One could argue about his potential deteriorization in skills. That's fair enough. But, this "holy-when-convenient" attitude is paper-thin at best.

[nfoligno]

For the record, I think you will find me against adding most of the offenders of the crimes you mention.

 

I will admit there is a bit of a double standard, but I think it is more than simply what the crime is. IMHO, a big aspect of this is the star status of the player. If we added the WR from Jax (which I am against) for example, it would be a move few nationally would even notice. He simply is not a big name player. If we added Vick, it would be front page news nationally. Whether you care for the double standard or not, that is simply reality. Adding a questionable character who is more under the radar is one thing, but adding a player as high profile as Vick is another IMHO.

 

Reeks of a double standard. There is another topic on this board addressing the value in bringing in a twice offended crack-head. Nobody does the whole "the kids are watching" routine with him.

 

Players can beat their wives, beat their kids, kill people, coke themselves into a stuper, shoot folks, run over people while drunk, spit on opponents. But, nothing deserves expulsion like dog-fighting?? Gimme a break.

 

One could argue about his potential deteriorization in skills. That's fair enough. But, this "holy-when-convenient" attitude is paper-thin at best.

[akshaz]

I will admit there is a bit of a double standard, but I think it is more than simply what the crime is. IMHO, a big aspect of this is the star status of the player. If we added the WR from Jax (which I am against) for example, it would be a move few nationally would even notice. He simply is not a big name player. If we added Vick, it would be front page news nationally. Whether you care for the double standard or not, that is simply reality. Adding a questionable character who is more under the radar is one thing, but adding a player as high profile as Vick is another IMHO.

 

Fair enough. I think there is also value in considering whether or not the whole circus that would surely accompany the singage of Vick would be worth it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

It's the whole double standard thing that bothers me. This guy would have paid his debt to society and would have been given a far greater punishment than anyone in the NFL has ever had. If his services are wanted, then he should be able to use his talents to legally provide for his family.

[jason]

You are a joke. Your race-baiting is crazy, silly, nonsense. Giving a human being a second chance in life has nothing to do with race or skin color you idiot.

 

I don't condone what Vick has done. Who can? But, after losing his freedom, his career and almost all of his assets, don't you think he has paid his debt to society? What punishment will be enough to quench your thirst for revenge? There are murderers of PEOPLE who don't have to pay the cost he has paid. There are people roaming our country who have destroyed lives of thousands and won't spend a day in jail. Yet, you are all lathered up in defense of dogs.

 

I just don't understand the PETA-type folks who love animals far more than people. They are more kind and show more love and forgiveness to a freakin' chihuahua than they would their fellow man.

 

Although he would have clearly paid his debt to society, as expressed by the courts, I know you would prefer to keep him down and punish him over and over again. I guess it's your skin color. (Tongue in cheek, to underline a point.)

 

Race, along with politics, has long been a sour note on this board. It probably wasn't a good idea to bring it into the discussion (where ya at NYC?). However, the simple fact is, neither of you know why Lovie, or any coach, would give Vick another chance. It very well could be race. It could be religion. You simply don't know. Maybe in fantasy land people don't do things based on religion, but not in reality.

 

As for whether he should get the privilege of playing the NFL again - and make no mistake, it's a privilege - that's up to the commissioner. Personally, I think he shouldn't be allowed to play again. He may have paid his debt to society, but like nfo said, that doesn't mean all doors automatically open back up to him again. Felons aren't allowed to vote, so there is clearly something that can affect a person after they serve the time for their crime. In this case, Vick should be allowed to pursue a job just like anyone else...but the NFL doesn't have to allow him back into the "company".

 

Last but not least, the double standards you mentioned...

Because I'm curious, which players in today's stricter NFL have committed, and been convicted of, a crime that you feel is equal to or worse than what Vick did, and have been let back into the league?

[nfoligno]

Fair enough. I think there is also value in considering whether or not the whole circus that would surely accompany the singage of Vick would be worth it. Nothing wrong with that.

 

The circus aspect is a big part of it. Few signings would bring about as much anger, and a HUGE aspect of that is more than simply the cirme itself, but the status of the player who committed it.

 

It's the whole double standard thing that bothers me. This guy would have paid his debt to society and would have been given a far greater punishment than anyone in the NFL has ever had. If his services are wanted, then he should be able to use his talents to legally provide for his family.

 

Lets say we simply agree to disagree here. Understand, I am w/ Goddel and like the harsher punishments doles out to the criminals in our league. I simply believe playing in the NFL is not a right, but a priviledge, and believe some players lose that priviledge. Simply paying their debt to society does not mean they have earned the right to re-enter the NFL.

 

If you have a felony on your record, you are not allowed to join the most part of the military (I think the army "may" allow, but not the others). Many jobs will not employ a felon. Just because you serve your time does not mean the slate is wiped clean. He may have the right to re-join society, but that doesn't mean he has the right to work anywhere. Some things are simply a priviledge, and you give that up when you commit a crime.

 

No question there is a double standard in the NFL. I personally think it has more to do w/ the public perception of the player over the crime itself, but understand, i would be all for harsher penalties against others who commit their crimes against humans, as well as animals.

[nfoligno]

Race, along with politics, has long been a sour note on this board. It probably wasn't a good idea to bring it into the discussion (where ya at NYC?). However, the simple fact is, neither of you know why Lovie, or any coach, would give Vick another chance. It very well could be race. It could be religion. You simply don't know. Maybe in fantasy land people don't do things based on religion, but not in reality.

 

On the race aspect, I think it "may" be true, just as some white people will go out of their way to support others of their same color. But regaredless whether it is true or BS, I just don't think this board is the place to entertain such debates. A debate such as this simply can lead to little more than bad feelings.

 

Also agreed that religion likely has as much to do w/ it as anything. But again, debate on religion simply has too great of a liklihood to end poorly, and should be avoided on this forum.

 

As for whether he should get the privilege of playing the NFL again - and make no mistake, it's a privilege - that's up to the commissioner. Personally, I think he shouldn't be allowed to play again. He may have paid his debt to society, but like nfo said, that doesn't mean all doors automatically open back up to him again. Felons aren't allowed to vote, so there is clearly something that can affect a person after they serve the time for their crime. In this case, Vick should be allowed to pursue a job just like anyone else...but the NFL doesn't have to allow him back into the "company".

 

Exactly. Besides voting, consider our military. There has been a recent debate whether or not the marines should begin allowing felons in their force, but the rule today is to just say no. Ditto for many companies around our country. Think about how many job applications ask whether or not you have been convicted of a felony.

 

The reality is, just because you serve your time doesn't mean you are allowed by into EVERY aspect of society.

 

Last but not least, the double standards you mentioned...

Because I'm curious, which players in today's stricter NFL have committed, and been convicted of, a crime that you feel is equal to or worse than what Vick did, and have been let back into the league?

 

Exactly. I think there is a difference between old ways and new ways. Today, players and owners enjoy a very rich situation, due in LARGE part to the media aspect of the sport. You can argue that it should be about the talent and not the character, but when those $100m contracts are affordable due to the fan support of the league, I think there is ample reason to want a cleaner league, and it appears that is very much what Goddell is trying to achieve. If Vick committed his crime a decade ago, he may well find it much easier to get back into the league, just as wife beaters, drug users, etc did. Today, you can not throw money around at a strip club w/o jeapordizing your career. It isn't just Vick or the crime against animals, but simply the new way in the league.

[akshaz]

As for whether he should get the privilege of playing the NFL again - and make no mistake, it's a privilege - that's up to the commissioner. Personally, I think he shouldn't be allowed to play again. He may have paid his debt to society, but like nfo said, that doesn't mean all doors automatically open back up to him again. Felons aren't allowed to vote, so there is clearly something that can affect a person after they serve the time for their crime. In this case, Vick should be allowed to pursue a job just like anyone else...but the NFL doesn't have to allow him back into the "company".

 

Last but not least, the double standards you mentioned...

Because I'm curious, which players in today's stricter NFL have committed, and been convicted of, a crime that you feel is equal to or worse than what Vick did, and have been let back into the league?

 

I clearly agree that getting paid millions to play a game that many would play for free is a privilege. Surely, he has no "right" to play in the NFL. However, if you are going to give him a lifetime ban, you should check the presedent for what it takes to get someone banned for life.

 

Again, I'm not trying to minimize Vick's crime. But, let's keep it in perspective. It is clearly poor judgement to fight/harm dogs. But, it is better to fight women? Against an NFL player, I would honestly say that a pit bull may put up a better fight. Are women less deserving of our protection than mere pets?

 

You can do a quick Google search on "NFL player arrested" and find countless of crimes against PEOPLE that, IMHO, are worse than any crime against an animal. DUIs kill people and have long-term affects on families. A guy can be drunk, drive and literally kill someone but not get a lifetime ban.

 

But, in many folks' eyes a human life isn't worth the life of a dog.

[nfoligno]

I think you are missing the point a bit. You talk about past crimes committed, and also say to check precedent on who has received a lifetime ban. The point you are missing is, the NFL has changed in the last few years under Goddell.

 

In years past, you might have a leanord Little who had numerous DWIs, one of which ended in manslaughter, and that player would still have a place in the NFL. You would have a player convicted of beating his wife, or another women, and receive zero punishment from the NFL. Players would fear the law, but there was little to nothing done by the league. The league then would simply allow the law to deal w/ individuals, and do nothing on top of that. Today, we see things being done very different.

 

Players who get into trouble today, whether a DWI or assualt charge, know they face a likely suspension by Goddell. The more severe the crime, the more severe the league punishment.

 

You say to check out the history, but instead, why not list some recent examples of players who committed these awful crimes, and did so w/o punishment from the league. I would like to see an example of a player who was found guilty of beating his wife, or any women, and wasn't suspended by the league.

 

For the record, one other aspect of Vicks crime was the gambling side of it, which many have said could be worse in the eyes of the league than the animal abuse itself.

 

I clearly agree that getting paid millions to play a game that many would play for free is a privilege. Surely, he has no "right" to play in the NFL. However, if you are going to give him a lifetime ban, you should check the presedent for what it takes to get someone banned for life.

 

Again, I'm not trying to minimize Vick's crime. But, let's keep it in perspective. It is clearly poor judgement to fight/harm dogs. But, it is better to fight women? Against an NFL player, I would honestly say that a pit bull may put up a better fight. Are women less deserving of our protection than mere pets?

 

You can do a quick Google search on "NFL player arrested" and find countless of crimes against PEOPLE that, IMHO, are worse than any crime against an animal. DUIs kill people and have long-term affects on families. A guy can be drunk, drive and literally kill someone but not get a lifetime ban.

 

But, in many folks' eyes a human life isn't worth the life of a dog.

[madlithuanian]

Hopefully, without sounding too harsh... To me presendent doesn't matter. He is not being tried in a court of law here. This is a private business choosing to not allow certain behaviors. That they may have done so in the past is irrelevant. The rule is as it is now. This isn't up to a vote,etc... This isn't govt. Vick is not being discriminated by his race, religion, etc... He choose to violate US and state law, and broke the terms of his contract by shedding a negative light on the league. The leauge may do so with his status as they see fit.

 

If the outcry from the public is harsh, then they will probably re-visit their policies.

 

I think you're running the fallacy of "just because one crime is cinsidered worse and less is done about it, then less should be done about this crime". The key should not be to go light on dog-fighters...but to get tougher on other crimes like domestic abuse, etc...

 

 

 

I clearly agree that getting paid millions to play a game that many would play for free is a privilege. Surely, he has no "right" to play in the NFL. However, if you are going to give him a lifetime ban, you should check the presedent for what it takes to get someone banned for life.

 

Again, I'm not trying to minimize Vick's crime. But, let's keep it in perspective. It is clearly poor judgement to fight/harm dogs. But, it is better to fight women? Against an NFL player, I would honestly say that a pit bull may put up a better fight. Are women less deserving of our protection than mere pets?

 

You can do a quick Google search on "NFL player arrested" and find countless of crimes against PEOPLE that, IMHO, are worse than any crime against an animal. DUIs kill people and have long-term affects on families. A guy can be drunk, drive and literally kill someone but not get a lifetime ban.

 

But, in many folks' eyes a human life isn't worth the life of a dog.

[akshaz]

Players who get into trouble today, whether a DWI or assualt charge, know they face a likely suspension by Goddell. The more severe the crime, the more severe the league punishment.

 

You say to check out the history, but instead, why not list some recent examples of players who committed these awful crimes, and did so w/o punishment from the league. I would like to see an example of a player who was found guilty of beating his wife, or any women, and wasn't suspended by the league.

 

For the record, one other aspect of Vicks crime was the gambling side of it, which many have said could be worse in the eyes of the league than the animal abuse itself.

 

I guess we would agree to disagree about the severity of each offense. I believe that driving drunk, because of the severely high margin for error, is worse than fighting dogs. Again, I prioritize human life over dog/cats/squirrels and chipmunks. Players get DUIs all of the time. Nobody cares. Not many are suspended. When driving drunk, sometimes you hurt someone. Sometimes, you damage others' property. But, any damage that you may cause would, very likely, affect another human being drastically.

 

In the NFL or not, domestic violence happens all of the time. Nobody cares. Nobody gets suspended. To the NFL to a good portion of society, the dog's life and safety outweigh those of the women with the black eyes. This is the case in and outside of the NFL. Rapes, robberies and murders happen each day and people yawn.

 

But, if anything happens to a dog, all hell breaks lose.

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but I call BS all over the place here, and think you need to realize what year it is.

 

You say, "players get DUIs all the time, and nobody cares/not many are suspended". As requested before, name one. I am not talking about a player several years ago, but name a player in the last year or two who was nailed for a DWI, and found no suspension by the league waiting for him. I agree w/ you if we were talking in past tense. It always ticked me off, and I spoke loudly about it, how a player would be nailed for beating his wife, and little to nothing was done about it. But that was yesterday and not today. Today, a player gets nailed by the league for throwing money around at a strip club. Today, a player gets suspended for having a gun in his vehicle, w/o even using it.

 

That is the point I think others are trying to impress on you, but which you seem oblivious to. You want to live in the past and not the present. Today, the NFL is run by Goddell, who has come down w/ a hammer on players who get into trouble. Hell, he doesn't even hold of to make sure a player if found guilty of a crime, and has punished players for simply being arrested for things.

 

More generally, I call BS that so many crimes happen, and people don't care, but harm a dog.....

 

Simple as this. Take a look at the punishment for animal abuse, and take a look at the punishment for the other things you mention. Animal abuse may be a hot botton topic, but not nearly as much as you want to pretend. If it was, the push to make the punishment more severe would be more noticable. The punishment for animal abuse is still often no more than a small fine. Basically the equivalent to not wearing your seatbelt of running a stop sign.

 

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me an individual who is found guilty of beating a women gets a lesser penalty than one who is found guilty of animal abuse. The Vick thing was played much bigger due to the celebrity status, but most animal abusers get little more than a slap on the wrist or a reprimand. There was a recent incident where a man burned the eyes out of his dog, and his punishment was a small fine and some community service.

 

And if you want to say you are talking about society and not just the law, I would say they are one in the same. When society gets upset enough about a crime, you see laws soon match the zeal. Thus far, the laws for animal abuse are still not much, but the laws on the books for the other crimes you mention are.

 

I do not hold the life of an animal over that of a human. At the same time, it makes me sick when someone belittles legit sickness and crimes against animals, as I believe you have when you make a comment like, "Again, I prioritize human life over dog/cats/squirrels and chipmunks"

 

I guess we would agree to disagree about the severity of each offense. I believe that driving drunk, because of the severely high margin for error, is worse than fighting dogs. Again, I prioritize human life over dog/cats/squirrels and chipmunks. Players get DUIs all of the time. Nobody cares. Not many are suspended. When driving drunk, sometimes you hurt someone. Sometimes, you damage others' property. But, any damage that you may cause would, very likely, affect another human being drastically.

 

In the NFL or not, domestic violence happens all of the time. Nobody cares. Nobody gets suspended. To the NFL to a good portion of society, the dog's life and safety outweigh those of the women with the black eyes. This is the case in and outside of the NFL. Rapes, robberies and murders happen each day and people yawn.

 

But, if anything happens to a dog, all hell breaks lose.

[akshaz]

Sorry, but I call BS all over the place here, and think you need to realize what year it is.

 

I do not hold the life of an animal over that of a human. At the same time, it makes me sick when someone belittles legit sickness and crimes against animals, as I believe you have when you make a comment like, "Again, I prioritize human life over dog/cats/squirrels and chipmunks"

 

First, the squirrels/chimpmunks line was used to articulate a point. Obviously, you got it. But, only got pissed when I lumped dogs/cats in there with their other non-human kin.

 

But in regards to your main point, I found some info that would show that even the new commissioner Goodell has been a bit selective on who he decides to suspend. Now, I'm not one to argue about how bad NFL players are. I'm just saying that everything hasn't been all equal and squeaky clean as you are suggesting. There are a lot of arrests that don't make the front page or end up with suspensions.

 

Check this out. Most of from the first few months of 2008. You are making it seem like everything I'm talking about happened under Tags but not under Goodell.

 

4/26/2008 Kalvin Pearson Detroit S_ Arrested, charged with felony aggravated battery on a pregnant woman and domestic battery by strangulation in Florida.

 

4/21/2008 Kenton Keith Indianapolis RB Arrested, charged with misdemeanor counts of disorderly conduct, public intoxication and resisting law enforcement after police said he refused to leave nightclub parking lot.

 

4/21/2008 Rocky Bernard Seattle DL Arrested, charged with misdemeanor charge of domestic violence assault. Police said he struck ex-girlfriend at nightclub.

 

4/13/2008 Donald Strickland San Francisco CB Arrested, charged with misdemeanor public intoxication, resisting arrest in San Jose.

 

4/11/2008 Reagan Mauia Miami FB Charged with punching man in the face and knocking him out in a restaurant parking lot in Florida.

 

4/3/2008 Kenny Wright Cleveland DB Arrested, charged with misdemeanor unlawful restraint, evading arrest and marijuana possession in Texas.

 

3/31/2008 Chris Henry Cincinnati WR Charged with assault and disorderly conduct after police said he punched man in the head and threw beer bottle threw car window. Released by team same week.

 

3/19/2008 Cedrick Wilson Pittsburgh WR Arrested and charged with simple assault, harrassment and disorderly conduct after allegedly hitting his former girlfriend in the face at bar. Team terminated his contract the next morning.

 

3/16/2008 Jacoby Jones Houston WR Arrested in Houston on suspicion of DWI.

 

3/15/2008 LenDale White Tennessee RB Cited with three misdemeanor charges in Denver, including destruction of property and resisting a police officer at party thrown in his honor.

 

3/11/2008 Dwayne Jarrett Carolina WR Arrested on DUI charge in Charlotte after being pulled over around 3 a.m. Blood-alcohol level was 0.12.

 

3/8/2008 James Harrison Pittsburgh LB Arrested on charges of simple assault and criminal mischief after police said he broke down a bedroom door at girlfriend's home after she locked herself in. Dropped after alleged victim decided not to pursue case and Harrison completed anger management counseling.

 

3/1/2008 Marcus Thomas Denver DT Arrested in Florida after police found cocaine and a gun in his truck.

 

2/26/2008 Kevin Faulk New England RB Issued a misdemeanor summons for marijuana possession in Lafayette, La., after routine search turned up four cigarettes.

 

2/24/2008 Bryant McKinnie Minnesota OT Arrested and charged with aggravated battery, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest after street brawl outside Miami club. June 2 trial date

 

2/19/2008 Fabian Washington Oakland CB Arrested on domestic battery charge in Florida. Girlfriend had red marks on her neck, according to a report. Deferred prosecution, 26-week intervention program.

 

2/19/2008 Andre Hall Denver RB Turned himself in and was booked into jail after arrest warrant was issued in Florida for failing to appear in court Feb. 5. The court appearance was for a charge of driving with a suspended or revoked license after traffic stop Jan. 11. Paid $513 bond

 

2/18/2008 Jerome Mathis Houston WR Arrested on charge of choking his common-law wife in Manvel, Texas.

 

2/17/2008 Roscoe Parrish Buffalo WR Arrested on DUI charge around 4:30 a.m. in Miami.

 

2/16/2008 Mike Patterson Philadelphia DT Arrested arrested and charged with possession of marijuana under 50 grams. Officers smelled it coming from his car. Fined $189 for careless driving. Other charges dropped.

 

2/13/2008 Antonio Pierce N.Y. Giants LB Summons issued for charge of neglecting one of his pit pulls. Pleaded guilty, $1,300 fine

 

2/5/2008 Willie Andrews New England CB Two days after Super Bowl, he was charged with possession of a half-pound of marijuana, with intent to distribute, and driving an unregistered Crown Victoria in Lowell, Mass.

 

2/1/2008 Adrian Awasom N.Y. Giants DE Arrested on extreme DUI charge in Phoenix at 3 a.m., two days before team played in Super Bowl. Sent home by team before Super Bowl.

 

2/1/2008 Matt Roth Miami DE Arrested on public intoxication charge stemming from incident at bar in Iowa City, Iowa. Pleaded guilty, $182 fine.

 

1/14/2008 Brent Hawkins Jacksonville DE Arrested on DUI charge around 2:30 a.m in 2007 Chevrolet Tahoe. He told police had had three vodka and orange juice drinks.

 

1/11/2008 Daniel Graham Denver TE Arrested on suspicion of criminal mischief and

harassment of former girlfriend after argument about sale of their home. Dropped the next week

 

Scott, who was arrested around 3:30 p.m., was booked into Hennepin County jail on one count of assault, one count of assault/domestic and one count of malicious punishment of a child. A news release from the Eden Prairie police said the "case is currently under investigation" and a spokeswoman for the department said no further information would be made available Wednesday.

 

Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Ahmad Brooks has been accused of punching a Florence woman in the left eye. Brooks case will be heard June 6..

 

KIRKLAND, Wash. (AP) Seattle Seahawks linebacker Lofa Tatupu was arrested during the weekend for investigation of drunken driving.

 

The three-time Pro Bowler was stopped early Saturday, Kirkland police said. An arrest report said Tatupu had breath tests of .155 and .158 -- the legal limit is .08.

 

Charles Grant DE for The New Orleans Saints..Charged with Manslaughter..For his involvement in a fight outside a nightclub in Feb. that resulted in someone shooting and killing a pregnant woman.

 

ROCKY MOUNT, N.C. -- Arizona Cardinals running back J.J. Arrington was among five people arrested after a fight at a nightclub in North Carolina.

 

Titans defensive end Jevon Kearse has been arrested for DUI, WTVF-TV reported.

 

Metro Nashville police said Kearse was seen speeding and swerving several times while travelling west on West End Avenue.

#37 Geoffrey Pope...New York Giants CB

 

Arrested in Detroit after allegedly hitting a man over the head with a champagne bottle.

Brandon Marshall....

 

Broncos wide receiver Brandon Marshall was arrested March 6 on a misdemeanor battery charge, his third arrest in 12 months and second involving a domestic dispute.

 

...New England Patriot defensive back..Willie Andrews, 24....

 

A New England Patriots defensive back is accused of pointing a gun at his fiancee's head in Mansfield on Monday after she accused him of cheating on her.

 

I can keep going. But, I think you get the point. Now how many of these guys have been suspended? A few. How many have lost everything and faced lifetime bans? Zero. There are some serious charges on this list.

 

To suggest that Roger Goodell has made everything all nice and even is not accurate.