Pace Visits Bears

[Dabears33]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-9-14...-the-Bears.html

 

Interesting considering that we just signed Shaffer. That could also mean Shaffer could be moving to Guard or was just a pickup for depth. Interesting to say the least.

[Stinger226]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-9-14...-the-Bears.html

 

Interesting considering that we just signed Shaffer. That could also mean Shaffer could be moving to Guard or was just a pickup for depth. Interesting to say the least.

If we sign Pace, I doubt if he would be a backup. If he ends up here, could mean we wont be taking a OT till the 5th or 6th with a couple of years to develope a raw prospect.

[madlithuanian]

Pick up the Pace!

 

If we sign Pace, I doubt if he would be a backup. If he ends up here, could mean we wont be taking a OT till the 5th or 6th with a couple of years to develope a raw prospect.

[soxfan3530]

Then sign his teammate Holt!

[dawhizz]

I think this would be a tremendous move. Grab a mid-round tackle to develop in the draft and free up the early rounds for WR and FS. Anyone know if he had any kind of good relationship with Lovie when they were in St. Louis that might tip the scales in our favor?

[akshaz]

Can't let him leave town unsigned!!

[bowlingtwig]

I think this would be a tremendous move. Grab a mid-round tackle to develop in the draft and free up the early rounds for WR and FS. Anyone know if he had any kind of good relationship with Lovie when they were in St. Louis that might tip the scales in our favor?

I am sure he did. Lovie was considered to be the 2nd most likable coach in the NFL according to a pool last year and he was 2nd to Tony Dungy.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

He'll go somewhere that offers him a chance to start for more money. Why would he come here where he'll ride the pine behind Williams?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

This tells me we may be preparing to trade if we sign Pace and Lucas. Maybe we trade our 1st and Tillman/Graham/Vasher to Denver for Cutler. Signing Pace would bolster the Oline, adding a leader who may step up his game if he knows his team has a chance. Lucas has been one of the better CB's in the NFC lately and would give the Bears even more flexiblity at the CB which hasn't been stellar or even solid which the Bears thought when they handed cash over to Tillman/Vasher. The news is now flowing and the sky is no longer falling, now just find a way to get Cutler.

[dawhizz]

This tells me we may be preparing to trade if we sign Pace and Lucas. Maybe we trade our 1st and Tillman/Graham/Vasher to Denver for Cutler. Signing Pace would bolster the Oline, adding a leader who may step up his game if he knows his team has a chance. Lucas has been one of the better CB's in the NFC lately and would give the Bears even more flexiblity at the CB which hasn't been stellar or even solid which the Bears thought when they handed cash over to Tillman/Vasher. The news is now flowing and the sky is no longer falling, now just find a way to get Cutler.

 

One could also see the Cardinals in the market for a CB, so maybe try trading one of those guys and our 2nd for Boldin, or our 1st and a CB for Boldin and their 2nd?

[bradjock]

That's interesting as hell. How many players have we physically brought to Hallas Hall??? Questions this raises:

 

1. Does Chris Williams suck??? The article mention Pace can no longer play LT, but I wonder.

2. Are we definitely going WR in round #1??? I find it odd that we haven't brought in any WR's, like Holt.

3. Are we really convinced Amiyale will be great at LG? Looking at Pace tells me the answer is yes.

4. Are we not thrilled about Eben Britton? That'd be a "no."

 

Interesting.

[BearSox]

I'd possibly prefer to see Pace at LT and Chris Williams shifted inside to Guard to develop before he takes over, arguably, the most important position on the field. Something like this would be solid:

 

LT - Pace (backed up by Williams)

LG - Williams (backed up by Beekman or Buenning)

C - Kreutz (backed up by Beekman)

RG - Omiyale (backed up by Garza or Buenning)

RT - Shaffer (backed up by Omiyale)

 

Still not as good as anyone of us would like it to be, but I'd feel a whole lot more solid then the line we've had the past two years.

 

OR, if we feel Pace can't play LT anymore (I think he can though, only 2 sacks last year in 14 games!!!):

 

LT - Williams (backed up by Shaffer or Omiyale)

LG - Omiyale (backed up by Beekman or Buenning)

C - Kreutz (backed up by Beekman)

RG - Shaffer/Garza/Buenning

RT - Pace (backed up by Shaffer)

[lemonej]

He'll go somewhere that offers him a chance to start for more money. Why would he come here where he'll ride the pine behind Williams?

Reports have him preferring the Bears and the Ravens because he thinks both teams fit his playing style.Which tells me he wants to play for a run first team.The fact that he has only played LT in the NFL also is telling me that if he comes here maybe Williams might be moved inside to LG.

[Stinger226]

He'll go somewhere that offers him a chance to start for more money. Why would he come here where he'll ride the pine behind Williams?

There is talk he will now play RT to prolong playing time. He competes for the RT job and the best man wins. We have Schaffer as our swing tackle and draft a developmental RT to play in 2 years. He left the Ravens without a contract and the only other player for him is us. He takes what he can get at this point with an incentive laden contract.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Some "insider" news I have from living in the Kankakee/Bourbonnais area is that Pace has family in the area. When STL was having trouble signing him and placed the franchise on him, Pace told his family members about his huge desire to come to Chicago. STL may have even granted him permission to seek a trade, but I can't recall for sure. IMO, he prefers to play in CHI, closer to family, and under Lovie Smith which means we can get him for a bargain.

[azbearsfan]

He'll go somewhere that offers him a chance to start for more money. Why would he come here where he'll ride the pine behind Williams?

 

 

ummmm I'm pretty sure if he signed here he wouldn't be riding the pine.

[AZ54]

I like the fact we're talking to him. I like even more the prospect that this could be a signal we're serious about going after Cutler, something I hadn't even thought of until reading this thread.

[nfoligno]

I'm going to be sick. When is Angelo going to learn, and when are the rest of us? Why are we in the freaking position we are today? Because Angelo has ignored OL in the draft so damn often. He drafts OL only when his back is against the wall, and otherwise stocks up on 6th and 7th rounders to take flyers on OL prospects. But we are in our current situation (talking just about the OL) because every year, Angelo looks to add bandaids when the problem calls for a body cast.

 

Think about what we have done and are talking about. Just a few weeks ago, many/most on this board agreed our OL sucked and needed a total overhaul. We signed an OT, who has one start in 4 seasons w/ two teams, and who we intend to play at OG. We signed an OT, coming off a bad year, who was called "turnstyle" by his former team, and who many here even say is a young version of St. Clair, who we thought was worth no more than a whopping $1.5m. Now we are talking about Orlando Pace, one of the true great LTs of his time, but who today is what? He is the Marvin Harrison of LTs. Yet fans here want to sign him immediatly and start him over Williams. Huh?

 

How are these moves different from signing Reuben Brown, Garza, Miller? They play good/ decent for a year or so, and then fall off a cliff. And then we are back in the same place we began because we didn't draft shit, and thus had no one developed and ready to take over. But no worries. In a few more years Walter Jones may be slowing down, and I am sure we will then be interested.

 

So many here like to talk about the well known definition of insanity, but to me, that is exactly what this offseason has been thus far w/ regard to our OL. More bandaids to try and cover up a massive wound.

 

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-9-14...-the-Bears.html

 

Interesting considering that we just signed Shaffer. That could also mean Shaffer could be moving to Guard or was just a pickup for depth. Interesting to say the least.

[chitownman]

I think that this would be a huge move in the positive especially if Pace is able to remain healthy for the entire year. I feel Pace has a couple of more good years left in him because of his past injuries and think it would be worth it especially if we sign him to an incentive lased contract.

[Mongo3451]

I'd possibly prefer to see Pace at LT and Chris Williams shifted inside to Guard to develop before he takes over, arguably, the most important position on the field. Something like this would be solid:

 

LT - Pace (backed up by Williams)

LG - Williams (backed up by Beekman or Buenning)

C - Kreutz (backed up by Beekman)

RG - Omiyale (backed up by Garza or Buenning)

RT - Shaffer (backed up by Omiyale)

 

Still not as good as anyone of us would like it to be, but I'd feel a whole lot more solid then the line we've had the past two years.

 

OR, if we feel Pace can't play LT anymore (I think he can though, only 2 sacks last year in 14 games!!!):

 

LT - Williams (backed up by Shaffer or Omiyale)

LG - Omiyale (backed up by Beekman or Buenning)

C - Kreutz (backed up by Beekman)

RG - Shaffer/Garza/Buenning

RT - Pace (backed up by Shaffer)

Very nice IMO.

 

 

I like the fact we're talking to him. I like even more the prospect that this could be a signal we're serious about going after Cutler, something I hadn't even thought of until reading this thread.

I hope you are right. I really like Orton, but a chance to get the best young gun in the NFL would be a dream come true. Besides, I have yet to see Orton get it together on his deep passes. Hell, you didn't even hear about it in training camp fodder.

 

I'm going to be sick. When is Angelo going to learn, and when are the rest of us? Why are we in the freaking position we are today? Because Angelo has ignored OL in the draft so damn often. He drafts OL only when his back is against the wall, and otherwise stocks up on 6th and 7th rounders to take flyers on OL prospects. But we are in our current situation (talking just about the OL) because every year, Angelo looks to add bandaids when the problem calls for a body cast.

 

Think about what we have done and are talking about. Just a few weeks ago, many/most on this board agreed our OL sucked and needed a total overhaul. We signed an OT, who has one start in 4 seasons w/ two teams, and who we intend to play at OG. We signed an OT, coming off a bad year, who was called "turnstyle" by his former team, and who many here even say is a young version of St. Clair, who we thought was worth no more than a whopping $1.5m. Now we are talking about Orlando Pace, one of the true great LTs of his time, but who today is what? He is the Marvin Harrison of LTs. Yet fans here want to sign him immediatly and start him over Williams. Huh?

 

How are these moves different from signing Reuben Brown, Garza, Miller? They play good/ decent for a year or so, and then fall off a cliff. And then we are back in the same place we began because we didn't draft shit, and thus had no one developed and ready to take over. But no worries. In a few more years Walter Jones may be slowing down, and I am sure we will then be interested.

 

So many here like to talk about the well known definition of insanity, but to me, that is exactly what this offseason has been thus far w/ regard to our OL. More bandaids to try and cover up a massive wound.

Totally disagree. Even before the Pace thread, I feel we improved our OL with younger players. We get Williams as a redshirt, Shaffer is better than any tackle we had last year and add Omiyale(who can't be worse than St. Clair. Throw in a potentially healthy Buenning and a year stronger Beekman to the mix. The only downside may be Kruetz and Garza, with Kruetz being our best OL last year. What does Pace do for us? He becomes our best OL this year, something a draft pick would not do. It is important for more than one reason: One - true insurance incase Williams falters would be in place.(I really loved BearSox idea of Williams to LG to learn from Pace for a year) Two - Most importantly, it gives us the ability to trade a couple of picks to Denver for Cutler and still have the line bolstered. Three - even if Orton is QB, it would be nice to be able to open up the playbook for some 5 and 7 step drops. I'm sure there was a lot left on the table last year because of OL.

 

Endgame is this - if we get Cutler out of it, Angelo runs for Mayor and wins by a landslide.

[Stinger226]

I'm going to be sick. When is Angelo going to learn, and when are the rest of us? Why are we in the freaking position we are today? Because Angelo has ignored OL in the draft so damn often. He drafts OL only when his back is against the wall, and otherwise stocks up on 6th and 7th rounders to take flyers on OL prospects. But we are in our current situation (talking just about the OL) because every year, Angelo looks to add bandaids when the problem calls for a body cast.

 

Think about what we have done and are talking about. Just a few weeks ago, many/most on this board agreed our OL sucked and needed a total overhaul. We signed an OT, who has one start in 4 seasons w/ two teams, and who we intend to play at OG. We signed an OT, coming off a bad year, who was called "turnstyle" by his former team, and who many here even say is a young version of St. Clair, who we thought was worth no more than a whopping $1.5m. Now we are talking about Orlando Pace, one of the true great LTs of his time, but who today is what? He is the Marvin Harrison of LTs. Yet fans here want to sign him immediatly and start him over Williams. Huh?

 

How are these moves different from signing Reuben Brown, Garza, Miller? They play good/ decent for a year or so, and then fall off a cliff. And then we are back in the same place we began because we didn't draft shit, and thus had no one developed and ready to take over. But no worries. In a few more years Walter Jones may be slowing down, and I am sure we will then be interested.

 

So many here like to talk about the well known definition of insanity, but to me, that is exactly what this offseason has been thus far w/ regard to our OL. More bandaids to try and cover up a massive wound.

I agree this move wont make us younger, but the last two OTs we drafted high didnt play there first year, and we dont even know if Williams is any good. Its all about having a better team, and I frankly dont care how they do it. Drafting hasnt been there strong suit lately, and as long as we draft one by the 3rd round to develope , I will be happy. I too dont want anymore 7th round OLs.

[akshaz]

I'm going to be sick. When is Angelo going to learn, and when are the rest of us? Why are we in the freaking position we are today? Because Angelo has ignored OL in the draft so damn often. He drafts OL only when his back is against the wall, and otherwise stocks up on 6th and 7th rounders to take flyers on OL prospects. But we are in our current situation (talking just about the OL) because every year, Angelo looks to add bandaids when the problem calls for a body cast.

 

Think about what we have done and are talking about. Just a few weeks ago, many/most on this board agreed our OL sucked and needed a total overhaul. We signed an OT, who has one start in 4 seasons w/ two teams, and who we intend to play at OG. We signed an OT, coming off a bad year, who was called "turnstyle" by his former team, and who many here even say is a young version of St. Clair, who we thought was worth no more than a whopping $1.5m. Now we are talking about Orlando Pace, one of the true great LTs of his time, but who today is what? He is the Marvin Harrison of LTs. Yet fans here want to sign him immediatly and start him over Williams. Huh?

 

How are these moves different from signing Reuben Brown, Garza, Miller? They play good/ decent for a year or so, and then fall off a cliff. And then we are back in the same place we began because we didn't draft shit, and thus had no one developed and ready to take over. But no worries. In a few more years Walter Jones may be slowing down, and I am sure we will then be interested.

 

So many here like to talk about the well known definition of insanity, but to me, that is exactly what this offseason has been thus far w/ regard to our OL. More bandaids to try and cover up a massive wound.

 

Agree to a point. But, I mainly disagree.

 

Orlando Pace, even with his age/deteriorization considered, can still be a very good tackle for us. I'd prefer if we let Williams develop at LT and Pace play RT for a couple seasons. But in either case, we are much better than we were last year; which is a "net-gain" in my book. Reuben Brown played at a very high level for us for a couple years. Fred Miller played well for a few years. Pace, although he's in his decline, is still better than most tackles in this league and surely better than any we've had in here recently.

 

In regards to what I believe is your point on drafting a young guy, I agree. I'd rather draft a premier RT and plug him in on the other side of Williams for 5-7 years. But, if we can sign Pace and draft a big-time QB or WR, I'd be a very happy camper.

[nfoligno]

First, I would point out that Williams was the only OL drafted in the 1st last year that didn't start, so I am not sure we should simply expect that moving forward.

 

Second, you say drafting hasn't been their strong suit lately, and I assume you mean OL. My response would be that when you draft so few, misses become more obvious. Every team has their misses, but when you just draft just a couple OL (3 in the first 3 rounds in 7 years), the misses become more apparant. Instead of drafting an OT once every could years, maybe try to draft multiple and we will see more success stories. Just imagine if we had the same philosophy on the OL as we do on the DL or secondary. We have had plenty of DL and DB misses, but we have drafted so freaking many, that we have also found hits which allow us to better forget and forgive the misses.

 

When you draft 10 DL, and only 3 are hits, at the end of the day, that means you still have 3 solid or starting players, if not even potentially studs. However, if you only draft 2 or 3 OL, and they don't breakout, it looks like you just can draft OL, but maybe you are just as good drafting OL and DL, but you don't match numbers. Know what I am trying, poorly, to say.

 

Damn I need more coffee.

 

Final point. I get that adding Omiyale, Shaffer and potentially Pace upgrades our OL from last year. My issue is, when you say, "as long as we draft one by the 3rd) that is where I have an issue. Right now, I think there is a low chance we draft OL prior to the 4th, which our conditional 3rd as the top spot I can see happening. If we add Pace? I think OL becomes a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick, and no higher.

 

That is where I have a problem. I don't mind adding bandaids, so long as you are also adding the young prospects to develop to replace those bandaids. Think of it like this. Your kids gets a bad cut which needs stiches. Before you get stiches, you have to cover the wound on the way to the hospital. The OL Angelo continually signs are those temporary wraps. No problem w/ that. The problem is he doesn't follow up by drafting prospects (the stiches) so you can have long term solutions.

 

I agree this move wont make us younger, but the last two OTs we drafted high didnt play there first year, and we dont even know if Williams is any good. Its all about having a better team, and I frankly dont care how they do it. Drafting hasnt been there strong suit lately, and as long as we draft one by the 3rd round to develope , I will be happy. I too dont want anymore 7th round OLs.

[nfoligno]

One. Agreed Brown gave us a few good years. Actually disagree on Miller, who I think gave us one good year, and then stunk. But the point is still the same. Whether they gave one, two or three good years, who did we have ready to step in and replace them? It isn't that I am so against adding veterans who can give us a couple good years. My problem is doing this w/o following through in the draft.

 

Two. I think you "slightly" misunderstand my point. If we were to add all these veteran OL we have, and then hit the draft and say took an OL in the 2nd round, or traded down from our 1st and did something w/ that. Or even our 3rd, fine. I just do not believe we will. Right now, after signing Omiyale and Shaffer, I personally believe OL becomes (in Angelo's mind) a 4th round or lower pick. Maybe our conditional 3rd, at best. If we add Pace, I think the 6th round is the highest we see OL drafted.

 

That is my problem. It isn't an either or situation. Either draft OT in the 1st or we suck. We can do both (draft and veterans) but I think Angelo believes we can add more and more bandaid OL and then throw a bunch of late round pick OL to develop, but our history shows that plan doesn't work.

 

Agree to a point. But, I mainly disagree.

 

Orlando Pace, even with his age/deteriorization considered, can still be a very good tackle for us. I'd prefer if we let Williams develop at LT and Pace play RT for a couple seasons. But in either case, we are much better than we were last year; which is a "net-gain" in my book. Reuben Brown played at a very high level for us for a couple years. Fred Miller played well for a few years. Pace, although he's in his decline, is still better than most tackles in this league and surely better than any we've had in here recently.

 

In regards to what I believe is your point on drafting a young guy, I agree. I'd rather draft a premier RT and plug him in on the other side of Williams for 5-7 years. But, if we can sign Pace and draft a big-time QB or WR, I'd be a very happy camper.

[akshaz]

That is where I have a problem. I don't mind adding bandaids, so long as you are also adding the young prospects to develop to replace those bandaids. Think of it like this. Your kids gets a bad cut which needs stiches. Before you get stiches, you have to cover the wound on the way to the hospital. The OL Angelo continually signs are those temporary wraps. No problem w/ that. The problem is he doesn't follow up by drafting prospects (the stiches) so you can have long term solutions.

 

But doesn't signing Pace mean and drafting Williams last year mean that OL isn't such a major need for us now? Not saying that we don't need young, new talent. I'm just saying it wouldn't be as urgent as, say WR or safety. I also wouldn't view Orlando Pace, a future HOF'r, as a bandaid. He would probably play at a higher level than anyone else we could bring in through draft or free agency, even if it's just for 2-3 seasons.

 

We could draft a WR, see how it goes on the OL and maybe draft one next year if necessary.