azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 It might be a moot point. I just read that Washington is putting on the full court press. I would imagine Mr Moneybags can and will do what ever it takes, which would probably be to rich for our blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned, but Cutler grew up a big time Bears fan and of all the teams interested in him, he has said Chicago (and Tennessee, but they aren't interested) is his first choice (this is coming from an article a couple weeks ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I agree. He was above average in an offensive head coaches great scheme which is pretty much plug and play for offensive skill players. He was not a top 3 QB in the league. What bad running game??? The running game averaged 4.8 a carry. We should hope to be so bad. So Parker, what is going to happen when he comes to a team with a worse OL, WR, and running game? Bottom line is that, right now, he is not someone to mortgage the team over. Either a one and Harris or two 1's is the most I'd give. I have a feeling the Jets and Detroit will top that. I meant to say their RB is bad. They were pretty much down to you and I at the position at the end of the year. Right now, he is worth it. The last 11 of 13 SB winners have have good or great QB's (Brady, P Manning, E Manning, Warner, Elway, Brady, Roethlisberger, Favre). In this era, you don't win with average QB's. We get Cutler, go WR in round 2, and build the OL and get the D young in the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
103 mph screwball Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned, but Cutler grew up a big time Bears fan and of all the teams interested in him, he has said Chicago (and Tennessee, but they aren't interested) is his first choice (this is coming from an article a couple weeks ago). I have a stupid question. Does Cutler have any say in the deal? Can he veto a deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Cutler has no say in the deal, however, after this big hissy fit it's clear his attitude has a big question mark on it. In trading for Cutler teams are expecting to have their franchise QB for the next decade. It's likely whoever lands him is giving him a new contract to confirm that fact. What Cutler can make clear to teams is that he has no intention of signing a new contract with them now nor when his contract is up in a couple years. Given his antics with the Broncos a statement like that carries quite a bit of weight. Even if you were to play hardball with him and put the Franchise tag on him, it will cause a lot of issues with the players in the locker room. Just imagine the media circus lining up outside the practice facility. If I were about to give up two first round picks for him that would give me cold feet. So while Cutler has no say in the deal, he and his agent can and likely will try to influence where he ends up. That doesn't mean he ends up in Chicago because he said he wants to be here. JA has to be willing to commit enough compensation Denver's way to get the deal done and it all has to look comparable to other offers to avoid collusion charges. The easy way to do that is to include players in exchange (versus just draft picks) that way Denver can say they wanted that player which is likely true anyway. Denver would have to be a willing partner but if they just wanted to stick it to Cutler they can send him to purgatory (i.e. Detroit) and watch his shenanigans mess up another franchise for the next two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 He had a damn good rookie WR, a stud WR in Brandon Marshall, a stud rookie LT in Ryan Clady out of Boise State, a bad running game, a pretty good TE, a crap defense, and a good head coach. He isn't a top 3 or 4. You can't look me into my eyes and tell me that when he had 25 TD's and 20 INT's last year. However, he has the potential to get there. Right now, my top 7 is Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, McNabb, Warner, and Rivers right now. You are forgetting that Jay played his second season with Type I Diabetes before being diagnosed in the offseason prior to last year which contributed to some of his poor play at times. Now that this is under control he rebounded to have a pro bowl season. I should clairfy for QB's in his age group and that I would like to build my team around. And right now he is the only one currently available. Brady will have to prove he can rebound fro his knee injury even though NE has little doubt since they traded Cassel to KC. Rivers / Cutler / Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have a stupid question. Does Cutler have any say in the deal? Can he veto a deal? Well he has been able to get the Broncos willing to trade him? So he and his agent are working from a point of leverage mainly becasue of his pro bowl production at the most important positon on the field and oh by the way he is only 25! So he may not be able to literally veto a deal he can threaten to hold out and refuse to report which may scare off some potentiall suitors. If Elway and Eli can force a trade during the draft before playing a down in the NFL than I say its a good bet that Jay could finego a trade to one of the teams he would like to play for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fudgeripple2000 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Mortensen reported that Denver is wanting at least 2 first rounders for Cutler. At first reaction that is great for the Bears. I would give this years first and next years first for the chance at Cutler. However, whenever Washington is in the ring during a bidding war the Bears will fall short. Not because the bears can't, but because the bears won't. Snyder has a clear history of a "throw money at it" owner. He has overpayed for everyone. Just look at what he gave Archuletta. In business the market is defined by what someone is willing to pay for a product. In every league there is always a team that sets the market for people that is reckless and unrealistic. Yankees, Knicks (at least to this point), L.A. (soccer), and of course Washington. And in each case championships don't necessarily follow. So bears fans what is the decision? Get into a bidding war in which we will most certainly lose and depending on how much we offer will be directly proportional to the amount of damage we do to Orton's psyche. Offer the farm and lose to washington and Orton will see just how desperate chicago is to replace him. Is he strong enough to say "it's a business", or "I'll show them." Sorry, the dude drives a Prius. He is a tree hugger he will be affected. I say throw the two first rounders and a conditional pick. If that isn't enough to do it, then JA can say he tried, and Orton can be only mildly hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 ok, i am here for my weekly defense of the Pats... Weis is not failing; very far from it. He took over a terrible Irish team (i am a big ND fan) and now has them on the cusp of being a top 7 team. I think he is a great success at ND Crennel coached the Browns, on of the worst run franchises in recent memory. I dont think any coach past or present could have done well. Cant for the life of me understand why Brady Quinn is not starting. Mangenius also fell victim of poor front office management. They pinned their hopes of Bret Farve as their QB. Farve has been a poor QB for the last 3 years, so why the Jets brought him in is a mystery. Farve rubbed his teamates the wrong way and they did not perform. Unfortunately for Mangina, he goes to the Browns...not looking good for him. Hey Boston as everyone here should know by now I am a huge Irish fan but you have some of your facts wrong. They were not a terrible team when he arrived. Remember when he arrived he had Quinn, a good defense and a top notch WR in Jeff Samardzgia who would have gone 1st round in the draft if he wouldn't have chose baseball. After they left they became a terrible team and I don't know what you mean that they are on the cusp of being a top 7 team when it has been a very long time since they were ranked in the top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't understand why he's so good. But then, I never have closely watched him play. I'm looking at the stats and seeing a guy with 18 picks last season and a QB rating that is all of 6 points higher than Orton's and thinking I hope we don't buy the farm for this guy...we've got so many needs. It makes me wonder if as Bears fans we're not so psychologically damaged (I guess we have every right to be) from year-in year-out quarterback woes that we'll shoot ourselves in the foot just to distract from the other pain. Orton throws less picks per TD tha Cutler does. But isn't Cutler supposed to be mobile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 You are forgetting that Jay played his second season with Type I Diabetes before being diagnosed in the offseason prior to last year which contributed to some of his poor play at times. Now that this is under control he rebounded to have a pro bowl season. I should clairfy for QB's in his age group and that I would like to build my team around. And right now he is the only one currently available. Brady will have to prove he can rebound fro his knee injury even though NE has little doubt since they traded Cassel to KC. Rivers / Cutler / Ben I'm not sure what age group you are going for really or what the cut off is. Going off of the year Rivers was born, I would put BigBen, Eli Manning, Phillip Rivers and Aaron Rogers ahead of where he's at now. His own coach put Cassel ahead of him, I'd probably put him about par with him. When you are limiting it to 81 or sooner, there's not alot of starters he's ahead of at this point either of that age. It would be guys (anderson/quinn) Schuab, Orton, Campbell, Edwards, Russell and Jackson. I hate to throw Flacco and Ryan in there because they were rooks. 30 or younger would add in QB's like Brees, Palmer and Romo ahead of him and I don't see anyone thats a starter to add worse then, I guess Shaun Hill. I would probably put him at 8 or 9 of 19 starters 30 or younger. Manning, Big Ben, Rivers, Rogers, Brees, Palmer, and Romo ahead of him at this point in no paticular order and possibly Casse or top 5 or 6 of 14 Rivers age or younger. He's about middle of the road but with a lot of potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't understand why he's so good. But then, I never have closely watched him play. I'm looking at the stats and seeing a guy with 18 picks last season and a QB rating that is all of 6 points higher than Orton's and thinking I hope we don't buy the farm for this guy...we've got so many needs. It makes me wonder if as Bears fans we're not so psychologically damaged (I guess we have every right to be) from year-in year-out quarterback woes that we'll shoot ourselves in the foot just to distract from the other pain. Orton throws less picks per TD tha Cutler does. But isn't Cutler supposed to be mobile? The reason that Cutler's int's are high is because he takes alot of risks during the game. He took alot of risks because he had to for the main part. In away I compare him to Favre in the way that he isn't afraid to risks, he is a little mobile and he has a major league arm. The reason alot of Bears fans want him I am guessing(me included in this) is because he has the ability to hit Hester in stride down field. Remember last year how many times Hester would completely burn his coverage and Orton would under throw the ball forcing him to come back. Just think if we had a QB who could get the ball to him in stride. That would force Defenses to play back to respect the deep ball potential thus opening up the underneath for the TE or slot guy and Forte would have more room to run. Now don't take this to mean that I am comparing Cutler to Favre because I'm only doing so in certain aspects of the game. Of course Favre had the ability to win any game in any condition all by himself and we have all seen him put up great numbers with crappy WR's Favre simply made bad WR's look good, good WR's look great and so on and so on. I wouldn't want to mortgage the future to get Cutler but I would give up at least 2 1st's and would willing to at least listen to any offer to gauge what others are willing to trade for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 You are forgetting that Jay played his second season with Type I Diabetes before being diagnosed in the offseason prior to last year which contributed to some of his poor play at times. Now that this is under control he rebounded to have a pro bowl season. I should clairfy for QB's in his age group and that I would like to build my team around. And right now he is the only one currently available. Brady will have to prove he can rebound fro his knee injury even though NE has little doubt since they traded Cassel to KC. Rivers / Cutler / Ben If you think Cutler is the 2nd best QB in football, you're nuts. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I've heard a lot of Washington talk... It might be a moot point. I just read that Washington is putting on the full court press. I would imagine Mr Moneybags can and will do what ever it takes, which would probably be to rich for our blood. According to ESPN this morning, Washington is the front runner.....honestly I absolutley hate Dan Snyder....I will be extremely pissed if that is where he ends up.... I think I would rather him goto the Lions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 The reason that Cutler's int's are high is because he takes alot of risks during the game. He took alot of risks because he had to for the main part. In away I compare him to Favre in the way that he isn't afraid to risks, he is a little mobile and he has a major league arm. The reason alot of Bears fans want him I am guessing(me included in this) is because he has the ability to hit Hester in stride down field. Remember last year how many times Hester would completely burn his coverage and Orton would under throw the ball forcing him to come back. Just think if we had a QB who could get the ball to him in stride. That would force Defenses to play back to respect the deep ball potential thus opening up the underneath for the TE or slot guy and Forte would have more room to run. Now don't take this to mean that I am comparing Cutler to Favre because I'm only doing so in certain aspects of the game. Of course Favre had the ability to win any game in any condition all by himself and we have all seen him put up great numbers with crappy WR's Favre simply made bad WR's look good, good WR's look great and so on and so on. I wouldn't want to mortgage the future to get Cutler but I would give up at least 2 1st's and would willing to at least listen to any offer to gauge what others are willing to trade for him. The thing I question about is how that would translate to our team. On offense we can't really afford turnovers, and we, as fans, seem to have little patience for a gunsligner type of QB. Would we get a good Jay/bad Jay issue if his gunsliging ways led to a game where his picks lose it for us? And what would his mental status be. I'm kind of with you that two firsts is as far as I would go here. Washington in play is interesting though. We are going to see if Jay really wants to play in ChiTown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprout Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 This is the only reason I wouldn't be outright mad if we traded for Cutler, especially if we gave up Orton to do so. Every player other than Bennett would have to re-learn their timing and chemistry with a new QB, but if it had enough positive impact on Bennett to turn him into a legit #2 wideout, maybe it'd be worth it. I'm still against trading for Cutler, mainly because of what we'd have to give up, but it would give us a pretty solid group of skill position players. I'll say this: if we're going to trade away what people have been talking about (let's say Orton, a first this year and a first next year) to get Cutler, we might as well give up our 2nd-rounder this year and sign Lance Moore away from New Orleans. Cutler's got to have someone established to throw to, or he's going to be a waste of money and draft picks. That'd give us a pretty solid, very young skill-position group on offense, too: QB - Cutler WR - Hester, Bennett, Moore RB - Forte TE - Olsen That's not a bad group at all, and Hester would be the oldest of the bunch at 26. Moore and Cutler are 25, Olsen's 24, Forte's 23, and Bennett's 22. They'd be the core of our offense for 4 or 5 years at least. That said, putting that group together would cost us our established starter at QB and three picks that we could use elsewhere. It'd put a lot of pressure on Angelo to find us a free safety, a pass rush, and a starting o-lineman, all on day 2. I'm not saying he couldn't do it (he seems to have much better luck in the 3rd and 4th rounds than in the 1st) but he'd really have to hit on every pick. I think it's asking a lot of your GM (no matter who he is) to put him in a position where a mid-third, a late-third, and a mid-fourth all need to be starting-caliber players. Did our receivers actually have any timing and chemistry with Orton?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 This article gives some hope...even though it doesnt mention the Bears anywhere... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4034863 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Fair enough! And scoreboard says....? Zero rings, zero national championships. I'll give Billicheck all the credit in the world...barring some slight jabs for getting caught cheating, but his record does speak volumes. His assitants have yet to prove a thing. In fact, the team really didn't miss a beat when the "gurus" left. To me, that means Big Bad Bill had more to to with it than anyone. The tree trunk is solid, the brances, not so much. ok, i am here for my weekly defense of the Pats... Weis is not failing; very far from it. He took over a terrible Irish team (i am a big ND fan) and now has them on the cusp of being a top 7 team. I think he is a great success at ND Crennel coached the Browns, on of the worst run franchises in recent memory. I dont think any coach past or present could have done well. Cant for the life of me understand why Brady Quinn is not starting. Mangenius also fell victim of poor front office management. They pinned their hopes of Bret Farve as their QB. Farve has been a poor QB for the last 3 years, so why the Jets brought him in is a mystery. Farve rubbed his teamates the wrong way and they did not perform. Unfortunately for Mangina, he goes to the Browns...not looking good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 His signing bonus was only 1.7M on a 48M contract! Look at the contract we'd be taking on: 7.6M 2009, 7.9M 2010, 16.3M 2011 ...so we'd really only get him for two years. If he performs and improves (based on reasonable expectations), his 2010 contract looks like really good value, but his 2011 contract is pretty killer (assuming no wild changes in upcoming union renegotiations). And keep in mind our cap charge for Orton is a paltry 1.42M this year. So even if he's not quite as good as Cutler, he's a steal this season (young, 6'4" with a strong arm and character, only one season as an anointed starter under his belt should mean upside) and could possibly be cheap if re-upped after showing further improvement through part of this next season. http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpag...NFL&id=3608 http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpag...NFL&id=3214 Random points: Kyle lost 5 fumbles last year to Cutler's only 2, which helps balance Cutler's worse Qb/int ratio. Kyle was 6-1 last season (the loss was Week 2's 17-20 Carolina loss) when the D allowed less than 21 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 "Fair enough"?? Mangini can't blame the front office for the Brett Favre decision. 2 seasons ago Favre almost led his team to the Super Bowl, last season he got hurt but how would you predict that being an issue when it's Brett Favre?...not to mention he looked great before the injury progressed, including an 6 TD/no picks game. His team was markedly better with Breatt Favre, and yet Mangini still couldn't quite get them into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 If you're responding to my "fair enough" comment to Boston Boxer...it was just a reference to the idea that he was going to show support for a Boston team... I think Mangini did not do a good job in NY to say the least. "Fair enough"?? Mangini can't blame the front office for the Brett Favre decision. 2 seasons ago Favre almost led his team to the Super Bowl, last season he got hurt but how would you predict that being an issue when it's Brett Favre?...not to mention he looked great before the injury progressed, including an 6 TD/no picks game. His team was markedly better with Breatt Favre, and yet Mangini still couldn't quite get them into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 And keep in mind our cap charge for Orton is a paltry 1.42M this year. So even if he's not quite as good as Cutler, he's a steal this season (young, 6'4" with a strong arm and character, only one season as an anointed starter under his belt should mean upside) and could possibly be cheap if re-upped after showing further improvement through part of this next season. Strong arm? What Orton were you watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clnr Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Orton does have a strong arm. His accuracy on the long ball on the other hand... That is a completely different issue... I remember from camp last year, Kyle was reported to outthrow Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Orton does have a strong arm. His accuracy on the long ball on the other hand... That is a completely different issue... I remember from camp last year, Kyle was reported to outthrow Rex. Yes. His accuracy is the issues. Watch the tapes. There are plenty of times he outthrows Hester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts