GreatScott82 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 So if Cutler is so good why did the first thing McDaniels try to do is trade for Cassell? McDaniels wants someone who can run 'his offense' and manage the game. Cutler is more of an agressor and a little bit of a headcase. But your telling me Orton has more talent than Cutler? Come on... Cutler is a stud! Look at his #s. If you could get Cutler somehow and go ahead and sign Holt and Pace... our offense would go from mediocre to a potential top 5 offense. Can you imagine: Qb- Cutler RB- Forte FB? TE-Olson OL- Pace, Omeyla/Shaffer, Kruetz, Garza, Williams (not sure what the order would be) WR- Hester WR- Holt That would by far be the best offense in the NFC north. The Vikings still would have no qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 So if Cutler is so good why did the first thing McDaniels try to do is trade for Cassell? Good question. I can think of a few reasons - pro and con: 1) Greater comfort with Cassell. 2) Trade value to get Cassell would be a lot less than what you would net with Cutler. So, he could get his guy and have extra picks and/or players. 3) New England arrogance. 4) Maybe he DOES have intell that Cutler is a Jeff George type. 5) Maybe they scouted Cutlers flaws in NE and found him lacking. IMO - regardless we must take the chance. Our QB situation has been mediocre for too long. This is one of the most talented "young" QB's I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 As much as I hate to see a good defender leave in Harris. He does have commitment issues and was bit a little by the injury bug. Why not role the dice. JA has shown to get good talent in the later rounds. And let's see just how good of a d-line coach Marinelli is. Point is we are not respected offensively. Let me say he will be in Detroit! If I was the onwner, I would send him to the worst situtation as possible. He screwed me and I get to screw him. Higher draft picks, although the first pick has its down side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Az, could things. One. I don't think Cutler is compared to George that much in terms of QB play. The comparison is simply due to the fact that Jeff George was the last QB in a trade situation like this. Highly touted prospect still in his youth. So the George comparison is really nothing more than trying to find a past time a similar trade was done in order to talk about trade values. Two. I understand you are not sold on QB, but let me ask you this. If you are not sold on Cutler, what is it going to take? In Cutler, you have a young, QB who developed quickly enough to make the pro bowl w/ in his 1st three seasons. I am not going to work down his good and bad traits, but just ask yourself that simple question. If Cutler isn't good enough for you, who is? In terms of veterans, I am not sure how you think you would ever have a chance at a better prospect. If we are talking draft, the highest graded out prospect ever would still be a far greater risk than Cutler, not to mention the question of whether we would be in a position to get him. I think that, at least for me, is the point you are missing. Is Cutler a sure thing? No. There is no such thing. But Cutler probably does represent the closest thing I have seen to a sure thing. Further, if there was ever a player to take a gamble on, it just seems like he represents that ideal risk/reward factor. You say you are not sold, but honestly, what is it going to take. When can you point to a time when we had a better opportunity? Sorry guys. I am not sold on Cutler at all. When I hear the name Jeff George brought up in comparison, it scares me. I know he has a big arm, but I'm not sold his being able to be a leader. Especially with how he has acted during this whole deal. Look how Orton acts when rumors about Cutler are brought up. He doesn't act like a little b*tch. He takes it in stride and with some class. The most I would give up is our first this year. There is no way I give up a 1, 2,3. And if you want to ship Forte away I think you are insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Not that it's going to make or break a Bears decision to push for Cutler, but keep in mind that he and Earl Bennett had a great relationship at Vanderbilt, to the point that Cutler came back after his rookie year to throw to Bennett at his pro day. If you're worried at all about Bennett's development, the fact that he has an existing good relationship with Cutler makes him look extra enticing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Az, could things. One. I don't think Cutler is compared to George that much in terms of QB play. The comparison is simply due to the fact that Jeff George was the last QB in a trade situation like this. Highly touted prospect still in his youth. So the George comparison is really nothing more than trying to find a past time a similar trade was done in order to talk about trade values. Two. I understand you are not sold on QB, but let me ask you this. If you are not sold on Cutler, what is it going to take? In Cutler, you have a young, QB who developed quickly enough to make the pro bowl w/ in his 1st three seasons. I am not going to work down his good and bad traits, but just ask yourself that simple question. If Cutler isn't good enough for you, who is? In terms of veterans, I am not sure how you think you would ever have a chance at a better prospect. If we are talking draft, the highest graded out prospect ever would still be a far greater risk than Cutler, not to mention the question of whether we would be in a position to get him. I think that, at least for me, is the point you are missing. Is Cutler a sure thing? No. There is no such thing. But Cutler probably does represent the closest thing I have seen to a sure thing. Further, if there was ever a player to take a gamble on, it just seems like he represents that ideal risk/reward factor. You say you are not sold, but honestly, what is it going to take. When can you point to a time when we had a better opportunity? Well the first thing is, he was being compared to George, not because of the similar trade, but because he has all this talent and there are the leadership questions. The fact that the first thing McDaniels did is trade to trade for Cassell, who has a ton of questions himself, is crazy to me. If Cutler is so damn good, why would you do that? The second thing is that I wouldn't be opposed to getting him as I think he is better than Orton. But some of the proposals in this thread are crazy. Give up our whole draft. And then trade away the best running back we have had since Neal frikin Anderson. Like I said, if we can get him for our first this year and a player like Harris or Hester, I'm good with it. But some people are acting like this guy is Dan Marino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I love the idea of the 3-way trade with the Browns...I for one would def give up Tommie and our 1st for Cutler... Broncs fans are gonna be pissed...They finally feel like they have some stability at the QB posistion since the Elway days...now this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 The fact that the first thing McDaniels did is trade to trade for Cassell, who has a ton of questions himself, is crazy to me. If Cutler is so damn good, why would you do that? I think it is more about McDaniels and the system he knows and is used to. Cassel not only fits his system, but is who ran it last year. In Cassel, he saw his best chance to start w/ a new team and quickly install his system. Cutler may not be a perfect fit for his system and either way, will take time to adjust to it. Cassel simply meant a more smooth transition into that system. More than just asking that question, I think you should consider how most are blasting McDaniels and how this very young new HC has so quickly destroyed his reputation. That could change w/ time, but after a move like this, he may not even get the chance. The second thing is that I wouldn't be opposed to getting him as I think he is better than Orton. But some of the proposals in this thread are crazy. Give up our whole draft. And then trade away the best running back we have had since Neal frikin Anderson. Like I said, if we can get him for our first this year and a player like Harris or Hester, I'm good with it. But some people are acting like this guy is Dan Marino. Honestly, I have not seen the trade proposals. I would actually not be as opposed as you to trading Forte. Sorry, but check the records. RBs are simply put easier to find in this league than QBs. I love Forte, but he simple reality is, he is more replacable than a franchise QB. W/ that said, giving up our entire draft AND forte? Um, sounds a little extreme. I see the trade value being two 1st round picks (this year and next) as well as a 3rd, and potentially even a 5th. Now, if players are added, you can subtract the value from the picks. For example, if we offered Harris, I think it would be our 1st and 3rd, plus Harris, for Cutler. Something like that. But our 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc plus Forte seems to be high, and IMHO, way over the top of what any other would offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I think it would be our 1st and 3rd, plus Harris, for Cutler. I like that too....we have 2 3rds so it makes me feel better about offering one up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balta1701-A Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I love the idea of the 3-way trade with the Browns...I for one would def give up Tommie and our 1st for Cutler... If Tommie Harris was anywhere near how he was playing before he was hurt that'd be a debacle. But now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 If Tommie Harris was anywhere near how he was playing before he was hurt that'd be a debacle. But now... Oh absolutley, but I just have this gut instinct that he is never going to live up to that contract now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantgiant Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Not that it's going to make or break a Bears decision to push for Cutler, but keep in mind that he and Earl Bennett had a great relationship at Vanderbilt, to the point that Cutler came back after his rookie year to throw to Bennett at his pro day. If you're worried at all about Bennett's development, the fact that he has an existing good relationship with Cutler makes him look extra enticing. This is the only reason I wouldn't be outright mad if we traded for Cutler, especially if we gave up Orton to do so. Every player other than Bennett would have to re-learn their timing and chemistry with a new QB, but if it had enough positive impact on Bennett to turn him into a legit #2 wideout, maybe it'd be worth it. I'm still against trading for Cutler, mainly because of what we'd have to give up, but it would give us a pretty solid group of skill position players. I'll say this: if we're going to trade away what people have been talking about (let's say Orton, a first this year and a first next year) to get Cutler, we might as well give up our 2nd-rounder this year and sign Lance Moore away from New Orleans. Cutler's got to have someone established to throw to, or he's going to be a waste of money and draft picks. That'd give us a pretty solid, very young skill-position group on offense, too: QB - Cutler WR - Hester, Bennett, Moore RB - Forte TE - Olsen That's not a bad group at all, and Hester would be the oldest of the bunch at 26. Moore and Cutler are 25, Olsen's 24, Forte's 23, and Bennett's 22. They'd be the core of our offense for 4 or 5 years at least. That said, putting that group together would cost us our established starter at QB and three picks that we could use elsewhere. It'd put a lot of pressure on Angelo to find us a free safety, a pass rush, and a starting o-lineman, all on day 2. I'm not saying he couldn't do it (he seems to have much better luck in the 3rd and 4th rounds than in the 1st) but he'd really have to hit on every pick. I think it's asking a lot of your GM (no matter who he is) to put him in a position where a mid-third, a late-third, and a mid-fourth all need to be starting-caliber players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantgiant Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 EDIT: double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Boxer Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Denver will be happy to get rid of him, so i dont think the cost will be astonomical by any means. I would give them a first this year and a 2nd or a 3rd next year. They really have no leverage and will take what they can get...no way in hell do they wanthim back. The only problem is that teams with poor front offices like the Jets or Detroit will over spend to get him. If the Vikings get him, then that would be the last peice for them, the division would be over and we would be doomed imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 So if Cutler is so good why did the first thing McDaniels try to do is trade for Cassell? I have a better Question: What the hell does a 32 year old first yr head coach with only 1 month experience as head coach know any way? I put all the blame for this Culter fiasco on 2 people: Bolen and McDaniels. We all know that Belicheck is the brain trust that drives the success in NE not his coordinators which whom have be highly sought after over the years only to be fired after a few years with their respective organizations. Bolen totally screwed up his franchise in Denver who without Cutler will be lucky to win 3 games this season. Right now Culter is a top 3 or 4 QB in the league. Far from Perfect yes but he has improved each year with no running game, def and 2 very good WR and a above average TE okay OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Bolen I'm not sure about... But, I'm not really sure how the Billichick (sorry, I had Billicheat in there as old habits die hard!) coaching tree is doing. Weiss is failing, Crennel failed, Mangenius failed... What makes anyone think that McDaniels is the exception? I have a better Question: What the hell does a 32 year old first yr head coach with only 1 month experience as head coach know any way? I put all the blame for this Culter fiasco on 2 people: Bolen and McDaniels. We all know that Belicheck is the brain trust that drives the success in NE not his coordinators which whom have be highly sought after over the years only to be fired after a few years with their respective organizations. Bolen totally screwed up his franchise in Denver who without Cutler will be lucky to win 3 games this season. Right now Culter is a top 3 or 4 QB in the league. Far from Perfect yes but he has improved each year with no running game, def and 2 very good WR and a above average TE okay OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I tend to agree... If the Vikings get him, then that would be the last peice for them, the division would be over and we would be doomed imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I tend to agree... When I was listening to Brad Biggs from the sun times on the score today he reported that the Bears, Vikings, Lions, Tampa Bay and the Jets are very interested. He has pointed out that he wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland and Washington got into the bidding war as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I've heard a lot of Washington talk... When I was listening to Brad Biggs from the sun times on the score today he reported that the Bears, Vikings, Lions, Tampa Bay and the Jets are very interested. He has pointed out that he wouldn't be surprised if Cleveland and Washington got into the bidding war as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Bolen I'm not sure about... But, I'm not really sure how the Billichick (sorry, I had Billicheat in there as old habits die hard!) coaching tree is doing. Weiss is failing, Crennel failed, Mangenius failed... What makes anyone think that McDaniels is the exception? simply that Bolen allowed this to happen by entrusting the keys to his franchise to a 32 yr old kid who alienteated the best thing in Denver since T. Davis and Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Sorry guys. I am not sold on Cutler at all. When I hear the name Jeff George brought up in comparison, it scares me. I know he has a big arm, but I'm not sold his being able to be a leader. Especially with how he has acted during this whole deal. Look how Orton acts when rumors about Cutler are brought up. He doesn't act like a little b*tch. He takes it in stride and with some class. The most I would give up is our first this year. There is no way I give up a 1, 2,3. And if you want to ship Forte away I think you are insane. Obviously you have your own opinion but don't let a comparison to George be what scares you away. 1st JG had trouble staying healthy and the biggest issue is that he played on some bad teams from what I remember so that problay had more to do with his attitude than anything. I don't think they are that close talent wise asside from arm strength but Jay is much more durable and also more mobile than JG was. At this point the Bears need to over pay for a talent like Culter and the franchise can not afford to miss out on this opportunity! I live in the south Denver burbs and have been follwing this story for weeks. People keep ripping on Jay's attitude problem but he is not running his mouth in the media and has been letting his agent do his job behind the scenes. Since McDaniels made it known he did not prefer Culter than Jay has has every right to demand a trade and has a lot more leverage than people think. If Jay does not like the team the Broncos try and trade him to than he can sit out and swear not to report. Additonally how is this any different than what Elway did when he swore he would not play a down for the Colts and thus forced a trade to Denver just like Eli did with the Chargers and Giants a few years ago. The major difference is the latter QB's did this with out playing a down in the NFL unlike a young Pro Bowl QB in Jay Culter who also happens to be in the top 3 or 4 qb's in the league with potential to get even better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 No argument there.... simply that Bolen allowed this to happen by entrusting the keys to his franchise to a 32 yr old kid who alienteated the best thing in Denver since T. Davis and Elway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Boxer Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Bolen I'm not sure about... But, I'm not really sure how the Billichick (sorry, I had Billicheat in there as old habits die hard!) coaching tree is doing. Weiss is failing, Crennel failed, Mangenius failed... What makes anyone think that McDaniels is the exception? ok, i am here for my weekly defense of the Pats... Weis is not failing; very far from it. He took over a terrible Irish team (i am a big ND fan) and now has them on the cusp of being a top 7 team. I think he is a great success at ND Crennel coached the Browns, on of the worst run franchises in recent memory. I dont think any coach past or present could have done well. Cant for the life of me understand why Brady Quinn is not starting. Mangenius also fell victim of poor front office management. They pinned their hopes of Bret Farve as their QB. Farve has been a poor QB for the last 3 years, so why the Jets brought him in is a mystery. Farve rubbed his teamates the wrong way and they did not perform. Unfortunately for Mangina, he goes to the Browns...not looking good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 I have a better Question: What the hell does a 32 year old first yr head coach with only 1 month experience as head coach know any way? I put all the blame for this Culter fiasco on 2 people: Bolen and McDaniels. We all know that Belicheck is the brain trust that drives the success in NE not his coordinators which whom have be highly sought after over the years only to be fired after a few years with their respective organizations. Bolen totally screwed up his franchise in Denver who without Cutler will be lucky to win 3 games this season. Right now Culter is a top 3 or 4 QB in the league. Far from Perfect yes but he has improved each year with no running game, def and 2 very good WR and a above average TE okay OL. He had a damn good rookie WR, a stud WR in Brandon Marshall, a stud rookie LT in Ryan Clady out of Boise State, a bad running game, a pretty good TE, a crap defense, and a good head coach. He isn't a top 3 or 4. You can't look me into my eyes and tell me that when he had 25 TD's and 20 INT's last year. However, he has the potential to get there. Right now, my top 7 is Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, McNabb, Warner, and Rivers right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 He had a damn good rookie WR, a stud WR in Brandon Marshall, a stud rookie LT in Ryan Clady out of Boise State, a bad running game, a pretty good TE, a crap defense, and a good head coach. He isn't a top 3 or 4. You can't look me into my eyes and tell me that when he had 25 TD's and 20 INT's last year. However, he has the potential to get there. Right now, my top 7 is Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, Brees, McNabb, Warner, and Rivers right now. I agree. He was above average in an offensive head coaches great scheme which is pretty much plug and play for offensive skill players. He was not a top 3 QB in the league. What bad running game??? The running game averaged 4.8 a carry. We should hope to be so bad. So Parker, what is going to happen when he comes to a team with a worse OL, WR, and running game? Bottom line is that, right now, he is not someone to mortgage the team over. Either a one and Harris or two 1's is the most I'd give. I have a feeling the Jets and Detroit will top that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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