Orton's value was a surprise

[nfoligno]

Among the MANY things that come to mind once the shock settles in was the value Denver placed on Orton.

 

Watching NFL Network, I think they were talking w/ Charlie Casserly. Pretty sure that's who it was. Anyway, he said there were several other teams very serious in the mix, but at the end, it came down to Orton.

 

NYJ - They were willing to match picks, but Denver didn't care for their young, unproven QB prospects.

 

Wash - Simply put. Casserly said Denver preferred Orton over Campbell, and by some measure. The feeling was Campbell was more similar (in terms of style) to Cutler, while Orton is more similar to Cassell, who he wanted all along.

 

Minny - Mentioned that, while Minny publically talked the idea down, were very active in the negotiations, but neither Jackson, nor (forget his name) QB from Houston interested Denver enough.

 

Supposedly, Denver liked Orton enough over the rest that it wasn't believe their upping the draft pick ante would have compensated. That was just a bit surprising to me. I felt all along Orton would have some value in a deal, but how many here felt he would be essentially the piece that got the deal done?

 

One other thing. Doesn't it make it that much sweeter knowing Minny wanted Cutler, and not only did they not get their man, but they will face him twice a year.

['TD']

One other thing. Doesn't it make it that much sweeter knowing Minny wanted Cutler, and not only did they not get their man, but they will face him twice a year.

Like us with Berrian last year?

 

Honestly, It doesn't surprise me Orton had that much value to him. My friend and I who are both Bears fans argued all night before Cassel was traded on who was better and who would have a better career.

 

I honestly feel Orton is just as good as Cassel, just he had more talent surrounding him. Their numbers were some what similar.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Among the MANY things that come to mind once the shock settles in was the value Denver placed on Orton.

 

Watching NFL Network, I think they were talking w/ Charlie Casserly. Pretty sure that's who it was. Anyway, he said there were several other teams very serious in the mix, but at the end, it came down to Orton.

 

NYJ - They were willing to match picks, but Denver didn't care for their young, unproven QB prospects.

 

Wash - Simply put. Casserly said Denver preferred Orton over Campbell, and by some measure. The feeling was Campbell was more similar (in terms of style) to Cutler, while Orton is more similar to Cassell, who he wanted all along.

 

Minny - Mentioned that, while Minny publically talked the idea down, were very active in the negotiations, but neither Jackson, nor (forget his name) QB from Houston interested Denver enough.

 

Supposedly, Denver liked Orton enough over the rest that it wasn't believe their upping the draft pick ante would have compensated. That was just a bit surprising to me. I felt all along Orton would have some value in a deal, but how many here felt he would be essentially the piece that got the deal done?

 

One other thing. Doesn't it make it that much sweeter knowing Minny wanted Cutler, and not only did they not get their man, but they will face him twice a year.

It sounds like the other team that had an offer similar to the Bears were Washington and Cleveland. Apparently the one QB the Broncos liked more than Orton was Quinn and he was available, but that Cutler's agent had a bad taste about the way Mangini handles QB's and that those close to the situation felt there would be a problem if he was traded to Cleveland (not necessarily with Cutler, rather that the idea was there and neither team wanted to deal with it). Apparently Favre had serious issues with Mangini and Cutlers agent is Favre's agent so there was already bad blood.

[AZ54]

I can't say I knew Denver would like Orton so much but I did feel that whichever QB they liked would be the key to the deal. They need a stopgap QB while they develop their new QB. I also felt that Cutler might try to persuade things away from certain teams which may have been what happened to Cleveland. I really don't care about that because I felt there was perhaps a 5% chance we'd end up with Cutler.

[ParkerBear7]

Orton will wear number 8 for the broncos. There is not a player with 18 on the roster so I ahave no idea why the number change.

[bowlingtwig]

Orton will wear number 8 for the broncos. There is not a player with 18 on the roster so I ahave no idea why the number change.

Maybe he just admired Rexy that much lol

[kyyle23]

Orton will wear number 8 for the broncos. There is not a player with 18 on the roster so I ahave no idea why the number change.

 

Maybe he wanted 8 all along, but Rex already had it when Orton was drafted

[clnr]

Or the logical explanation: The number is retired.

From wikipedia: 18 Frank Tripucka, QB, 1960-63

[bowlingtwig]

Or the logical explanation: The number is retired.

From wikipedia: 18 Frank Tripucka, QB, 1960-63

damn you ruined all the fun we were having, ironically enough my parents were 1 and 3 in 1960 lol

[BearFan PHX]

I responded in Pix's thread about Trade Value that we got a First Round Pick for Orton, and depending on how you value it, we may have even gotten value equivalent to better than the 2nd pick overall for him. Its amazing, but true. Angelo IS a great GM.

[nfoligno]

I know the reasoning, but just can't go along w/ it. I just don't see how you can say, "if Cutler were in the draft....." If Cutler were in the draft, he would be an unkonw. The reality is, Cutler was in the draft, and he was not the #1 pick in the draft.

 

Seriously, we can talk all day about what value Orton had, but the main point was simply this. Most here considered Orton a decent QB and a throw in piece to any deal, and yet he was essentially the deal maker.

 

Just something to think about. If we had Rex and not Orton, would we have Cutler?

 

I responded in Pix's thread about Trade Value that we got a First Round Pick for Orton, and depending on how you value it, we may have even gotten value equivalent to better than the 2nd pick overall for him. Its amazing, but true. Angelo IS a great GM.

[AZ54]

I know the reasoning, but just can't go along w/ it. I just don't see how you can say, "if Cutler were in the draft....." If Cutler were in the draft, he would be an unkonw. The reality is, Cutler was in the draft, and he was not the #1 pick in the draft.

 

Seriously, we can talk all day about what value Orton had, but the main point was simply this. Most here considered Orton a decent QB and a throw in piece to any deal, and yet he was essentially the deal maker.

 

Just something to think about. If we had Rex and not Orton, would we have Cutler?

 

 

The point because it's talking about the current value of a player versus draft picks. If the 2006 draft was held all over again there's no way Vince Young, D'Brick, AJ Hawk, Vernon Davis, Michael Huff, Donte Whitner, Ernie Sims, and Matt Leinart get picked before him. We could argue about Mario Williams and Reggie Bush who went 1 - 2 but I think given what Cutler's done teams would have been willing to trade up to the either of those spots to keep the Titans from getting him.

 

If we had played Rex last year and not Orton there's no way this deal is made because Rex is not the "distribution" type QB that McDaniels wants. Orton often hit 7 receivers in a game. Rex usually didn't know he had 7 receivers available to him.

[flea]

Or the logical explanation: The number is retired.

From wikipedia: 18 Frank Tripucka, QB, 1960-63

[BearFan PHX]

I know the reasoning, but just can't go along w/ it. I just don't see how you can say, "if Cutler were in the draft....." If Cutler were in the draft, he would be an unkonw. The reality is, Cutler was in the draft, and he was not the #1 pick in the draft.

 

Seriously, we can talk all day about what value Orton had, but the main point was simply this. Most here considered Orton a decent QB and a throw in piece to any deal, and yet he was essentially the deal maker.

 

Just something to think about. If we had Rex and not Orton, would we have Cutler?

 

nfo, I don't mean a rookie Cutler, I mean Cutler right now. If the league somehow said, OK Cutler isn't a Bear or a Bronco, and we'll just throw him in with the draft pool, he would automatically become the first pick. I mean, I realize it would never happen, but the point is he is worth at least 3,000 draft points.

 

Once you give Cutler a value (and 3000 is WAY LOW) then you can figure the other draft choices from the chart, and see what's left. What's left is 640+ points. That's Orton's worth in this then.

 

So I'm agreeing with you, Denver gave Orton value in this equal to at least the 29th pick overall.

 

By my reckoning, I see them as having given a much higher first round pick, because I value Cutler higher than 3000 points, and i dont give as much value to our next year's first, but even with tremendously conservative numbers, it's clearly at LEAST the 29th in value for Orton.

 

Does that make more sense? Sorry I was confusing - I wasn't talking about a rookie Cutler.

 

The fact that we don't pay a signing bonus is just huge gravy after that.

[nfoligno]

I basically get what you are saying, just have a hard time using the draft value points for a veteran player. I personally just question how well they apply.

 

Part of my issue here is, if we put Orton, by himself, on the block, do you think anyone would give us a 1st? Lets say Denver lost Cutler, and we still had Orton. Do you think even then Denver would give us a 1st for Orton? I don't think they would have even given us a 2nd.

 

That is why I have a hard time w/ your argument. I think Orton had value in the package, no question, but just have a hard time putting his value as a 1st round pick.

 

Regardless how we calculate it though, what is w/o question is Orton had very real value. He was far more than a throw-in part.

 

As for the SB aspect, I would not put too much into that as, I think it is w/o question we will be giving Cutler a new deal, and soon, and thus we still be giving up a very large SB.

 

nfo, I don't mean a rookie Cutler, I mean Cutler right now. If the league somehow said, OK Cutler isn't a Bear or a Bronco, and we'll just throw him in with the draft pool, he would automatically become the first pick. I mean, I realize it would never happen, but the point is he is worth at least 3,000 draft points.

 

Once you give Cutler a value (and 3000 is WAY LOW) then you can figure the other draft choices from the chart, and see what's left. What's left is 640+ points. That's Orton's worth in this then.

 

So I'm agreeing with you, Denver gave Orton value in this equal to at least the 29th pick overall.

 

By my reckoning, I see them as having given a much higher first round pick, because I value Cutler higher than 3000 points, and i dont give as much value to our next year's first, but even with tremendously conservative numbers, it's clearly at LEAST the 29th in value for Orton.

 

Does that make more sense? Sorry I was confusing - I wasn't talking about a rookie Cutler.

 

The fact that we don't pay a signing bonus is just huge gravy after that.

[BearFan PHX]

I basically get what you are saying, just have a hard time using the draft value points for a veteran player. I personally just question how well they apply.

 

I agree, but I was trying to make an apples to apples comparison. Since a lot fo the package was draft picks, I figured to convert all the "currency" into draft points.

 

Part of my issue here is, if we put Orton, by himself, on the block, do you think anyone would give us a 1st? Lets say Denver lost Cutler, and we still had Orton. Do you think even then Denver would give us a 1st for Orton? I don't think they would have even given us a 2nd.

 

Me either, that's why Angelo got us a steal here. He didn't get a first rounder for Orton, he simply paid a LOT less than Cutler's worth. They had to sell him at a discount, given their screw up. At first blush, two first round picks seems a lot of compensation, but in doing the math, I think it's fair to say that we underpaid, and Denver really lost.

 

That is why I have a hard time w/ your argument. I think Orton had value in the package, no question, but just have a hard time putting his value as a 1st round pick.

 

Exactly. What actually happened is we simply didn't pay anywhere near what we got.

 

Regardless how we calculate it though, what is w/o question is Orton had very real value. He was far more than a throw-in part.

 

I fully agree. There was an article that said Denver chose us for that exact reason.

 

As for the SB aspect, I would not put too much into that as, I think it is w/o question we will be giving Cutler a new deal, and soon, and thus we still be giving up a very large SB.

 

I dunno. Not this year anyway - he still has 3 years left on his deal.

 

Thanks for the conversation nfo, whatever the value, Cutler is certainly big news for our offense.