Massaquoi to Bears?

[bradjock]

This was posted on PFT tonight. I know Hoof won't be happy to read this, but I can't help being reminded of last year at this time when everyone was debating whether we'd draft Matt Forte with our 2nd or 3rd pick.

 

Massaquoi To Bears?

Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 15, 2009, 5:11 p.m.

University of Georgia wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi has been projected as the Chicago Bears’ second-round draft pick with the 49th overall selection, according to Mike Mayock of NFL Network and Mel Kiper of ESPN.

 

During a conference call today, Mayock, citing league sources, told reporters that Massaquoi is one of the fastest-rising prospects in the draft.

 

Massaquoi is scheduled to visit the Dallas Cowboys on Thursday.

 

He has previously visited the Tennessee Titans and has had private workouts for the Bears, New England Patriots and the Detroit Lions.

 

A few other possible landing spots for Massaquoi are the San Francisco 49ers’ No. 43 overall selection and the Patriots’ No. 47 overall pick.

 

At the NFL Scouting Combine, he conducted formal interviews with the 49ers, Cowboys and Baltimore Ravens.

 

An All-Southeastern Conference selection and four-year starter, Massaquoi caught 58 passes for 920 yards and eight touchdowns last season. His career totals are 158 receptions, 2,282 yards and 16 touchdowns.

 

The 6′2,” 210-pounder ran the 40-yard dash in 4.49 seconds at his Pro Day workout.

[BearSox]

If we draft him, the remote is going through my TV. This guy isn't that good.

[SoxFan1]

If we draft him, the remote is going through my TV. This guy isn't that good.

Clearly you know more than all the NFL scouts who are watching him. I'm sure you though Marques Colston also wasn't good but that David Terrell was a stud.

[Stinger226]

If we draft him, the remote is going through my TV. This guy isn't that good.

I dont know if he will be any good but I do know none of you know either. If we draft him, I hope he does well and some of our opinions were just wrong.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

A month back, he was sure to be a 4th-6th round pick. He ran a 4.49 40 and he's obviously been tearing up these private workouts. Personally, I'll take him over Iglesias.

 

If we draft him, atleast now we have a QB who can bring out everything he does well. His worst "con" are his hands, but he uses his large body to his advantage and is a leader.

[azbearsfan]

If we draft him, the remote is going through my TV. This guy isn't that good.

 

 

Says who??

[dawhizz]

If we draft him, the remote is going through my TV. This guy isn't that good.

 

Have you actually watched him in games? I haven't and there's not much on YouTube, so can you tell me what about his game you don't like?

[nfoligno]

Not a fan, at least not in the 2nd round. Frankly, the 3rd round is iffy for me.

 

I just really have an issue w/ players who rise by leaps and bounds in the offseason. Barden is another I question, at least as high (2nd round to Oakland) as I have heard some talk about.

 

I know players move up and down in the offseason, but players who take major leaps (or downturns) are players that raise red flags for me. Very shortly ago, he was considered a 4th or 5th rounder. Then he started to climb. Okay, fine. But the 2nd round? That is a 2 to 3 round rise. That is a bit much for me. Ditto Barden.

 

I personally believe too much is made out of offseason stuff, and too often the offseason stuff begins to cloud what the player actually did on the field. If a guy was mediocre in college, but is 6'4 and runs a 4.34/40, all of a sudden he is a great prospect. Forget that he never could do crap in college. Not saying that is Mosoquai, but the point is the same.

 

If a guy rises some in value, fine. But when the rise is extreme, I just have to really question the value of that pick.

 

On the opposite side of that, I don't mind looking at a guy who slips some. Depends on the reason, sure. But if a WR was a stud in college, for a major program, but then slips because he could put up a great time on a track, in shorts...well, that is a player I like to draft.

 

A month back, he was sure to be a 4th-6th round pick. He ran a 4.49 40 and he's obviously been tearing up these private workouts. Personally, I'll take him over Iglesias.

 

If we draft him, atleast now we have a QB who can bring out everything he does well. His worst "con" are his hands, but he uses his large body to his advantage and is a leader.

[SoxFan1]

Not a fan, at least not in the 2nd round. Frankly, the 3rd round is iffy for me.

 

I just really have an issue w/ players who rise by leaps and bounds in the offseason. Barden is another I question, at least as high (2nd round to Oakland) as I have heard some talk about.

 

I know players move up and down in the offseason, but players who take major leaps (or downturns) are players that raise red flags for me. Very shortly ago, he was considered a 4th or 5th rounder. Then he started to climb. Okay, fine. But the 2nd round? That is a 2 to 3 round rise. That is a bit much for me. Ditto Barden.

 

I personally believe too much is made out of offseason stuff, and too often the offseason stuff begins to cloud what the player actually did on the field. If a guy was mediocre in college, but is 6'4 and runs a 4.34/40, all of a sudden he is a great prospect. Forget that he never could do crap in college. Not saying that is Mosoquai, but the point is the same.

 

If a guy rises some in value, fine. But when the rise is extreme, I just have to really question the value of that pick.

 

On the opposite side of that, I don't mind looking at a guy who slips some. Depends on the reason, sure. But if a WR was a stud in college, for a major program, but then slips because he could put up a great time on a track, in shorts...well, that is a player I like to draft.

Look at how high Joe Flacco's stock rose in the off-season. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

['TD']

Clearly you know more than all the NFL scouts who are watching him. I'm sure you though Marques Colston also wasn't good but that David Terrell was a stud.

 

Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself? You're are basically saying the scouts know more then all of us, then bringing up 2 failures of scouts in Colston drafted so late adn Terrell so early.

[nfoligno]

how high did it rise. The first report I saw talked about him as a 2nd round prospect, maybe mid 2nd. He went mid 1st. Yes, that is a rise, but (a) it is a one round rise and ( we are talking about a QB, and QBs are more often than not an exception to the rules. Such is the way or QBs.

 

But in Mossaquoi, we are talking about a guy who was considered a 4th/5th round prospect and is not being talked about as mid 2nd? That is not just a rise, but a major leap.

 

Look at how high Joe Flacco's stock rose in the off-season. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

[SoxFan1]

Aren't you sort of contradicting yourself? You're are basically saying the scouts know more then all of us, then bringing up 2 failures of scouts in Colston drafted so late adn Terrell so early.

Exactly. It's a crapshoot no matter what. However, BearSox is so sure that Massequoi will suck, so it doesn't make a difference. I don't know how Colston going so late is a scout failure either way. In half of his rookie season, he outperformed his best college season. Part of the reason he was picked so late is due to people thinking he'd end up as a TE in the NFL also.

[dasox24]

Joe Flacco was 100% initially supposed to be a mid-round pick. It wasn't until after the combine/private workouts that he continually rose to the 3rd, 2nd, and eventually 1st round projection a couple weeks before the draft. I'm not a huge proponent either of taking guys who rise from off-season workouts. However, our scouts and front office people know more than I do, so whoever they take I'll likely be happy with.

 

I really like Massaquoi, though. He produced pretty well (averaged about 16 yds/catch JR and SR year) at a big time program in the best conference in college football. Let's not forget, however, that we already have a guy in Bennett on the roster who could have a pretty decent impact in the 2nd season. If we take a WR in the 2nd or 3rd round, I think our WR corps will be pretty set, as long as we sign a decent veteran as well. Not saying it has to be Holt, who I'd love, but a solid vet would help round out the corps.

 

1- Hester

2- Bennett

3- Veteran (Toomer, Jurevicius, Holt)

4- Massaquoi

5- Davis?

[BearSox]

Clearly you know more than all the NFL scouts who are watching him. I'm sure you though Marques Colston also wasn't good but that David Terrell was a stud.

When did Mayock and Kiper become professional NFL scouts?

[BearSox]

Look at how high Joe Flacco's stock rose in the off-season. I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Flacco was considered by many to be a 1st day pick well before any of the offseason stuff for prospects. No one really expected him to go 18th overall, but it was not a surprise to see him go in the 1st round.

[defiantgiant]

Have you actually watched him in games? I haven't and there's not much on YouTube, so can you tell me what about his game you don't like?

 

I can tell you: he just plain drops way too many passes. He lets passes into his body or starts to make his move before he's got the ball secured, and that leads to drops. From watching Georgia games, I can't tell if he loses concentration or if his hands are really that bad, but he's got the best QB in the draft throwing to him and he can't secure the catch.

 

Maybe his drops would be OK if he were a deep-threat, Randy Moss type of receiver, but he's not. He's built like Anquan Boldin and runs about as fast (or about as slow, depending on how you want to look at it,) but Massaquoi can't be relied upon to make the catch. A possession receiver who can't catch isn't much good to anyone.

[defiantgiant]

Exactly. It's a crapshoot no matter what.

 

Umm, are you saying there's no such thing as successful talent evaluation? It sounds like you're trying to argue that every NFL scouting department should just be throwing darts at a wall or something. I'm pretty sure, despite busts like David Terrell, that it's possible for scouts (and for that matter, other people who watch college football) to analyze a prospect based on college game tape. If you don't believe me, here's a pre-draft scouting report on Kyle Orton:

 

Kyle Orton, QB, Purdue Sr 6-4, 233

By: Andy Silvester

 

Another QB here in the 3-7 range, who could still end up dotted from the bottom of the 2nd round to the top of the fifth. Orton began life as a true freshman starter and has played in all seasons since.

 

Positives

A true safety-first QB. Will never, ever force a deep ball or anything into double coverage unless it absolutely needs it (just 5 picks in his senior year). He has the field-reading skills of a 10 year NFL vet and can diagnose a blitz instantly, and is happy to sit in against it and make his reads. Good timing is a huge part of his play, especially in the underneath and short-medium range passes. He won’t even consider parting with the ball until he is certain his receiver is open, and may be on a par with plenty of NFL quarterbacks when it comes to play action – think ol’ Peyton but slightly less polished.

 

Negatives

One thing will stick out to NFL scouts – watching him throw a long ball is just plain painful. They’re either off target ( a long way ), underthrown so the receiver has to slow down to a crawl to receive it, or he sits in the pocket so long he gets snapped in two. Another warning sign has to be his benching towards the end of his senior season when it all fell apart rather briskly. One more slight knock is that he played almost all of his college career out of the shotgun spread offense, and will take a long time to adjust to the complexities of an NFL passing scheme.

 

Pro Potential

Orton is one of those QBs that you just know can be successful in a particular system. In a short to intermediate passing game he could well be a comfortable NFL starter as long as he can adjust to the rigours of the big league.

 

Best fit

Somewhere in a conservative system with plenty of underneath passes (think the Patriots) where he has a couple of years to learn his trade at a higher level. He gets those two – solid NFL QB in a few years.

 

 

You can't tell me that's not extremely accurate. Even allowing your argument: if this thread isn't for people to write what they think about whether the Bears should draft Massaquoi, then what is it for? A thread full of posts saying "I don't know if he's any good, and the scouts don't know either, I guess we'll just wait and see" would be pretty pointless.

[azbearsfan]

I can tell you: he just plain drops way too many passes. He lets passes into his body or starts to make his move before he's got the ball secured, and that leads to drops. From watching Georgia games, I can't tell if he loses concentration or if his hands are really that bad, but he's got the best QB in the draft throwing to him and he can't secure the catch.

 

Maybe his drops would be OK if he were a deep-threat, Randy Moss type of receiver, but he's not. He's built like Anquan Boldin and runs about as fast (or about as slow, depending on how you want to look at it,) but Massaquoi can't be relied upon to make the catch. A possession receiver who can't catch isn't much good to anyone.

 

 

Well that sounds like Plax, Braylon Edwards, Boldin and TO. All of those guys drop too many balls, but you live with it because they can make plays because they are bigger types of receiver.

[Wesson44]

Well that sounds like Plax, Braylon Edwards, Boldin and TO. All of those guys drop too many balls, but you live with it because they can make plays because they are bigger types of receiver.

 

imIMHO I would not draft Mohamed Massaquoi but go after Robiske instead. If we go 2nd round FS the Johnson or the guy from TROY or Burton from ND are the targets, then maybe Kelly from Clemson,at WR in the 3rd(BURRESS TYPE) or Murphy from the Gators. This all depends if Nicks, Britt are taken before pick 49

[defiantgiant]

Well that sounds like Plax, Braylon Edwards, Boldin and TO. All of those guys drop too many balls, but you live with it because they can make plays because they are bigger types of receiver.

 

That's true, but he's not the athlete that any of them are. He doesn't have Plax' jump ball/red-zone ability, Edwards' speed, or Boldin and TO's physical strength/ability to separate. Like I said, if he projected as a #1 wideout with some drop issues, that'd be one thing. But even when he's on his game, he's more of a #2/#3 guy, and he doesn't offer any outstanding quality that makes up for his drops.

[azbearsfan]

That's true, but he's not the athlete that any of them are. He doesn't have Plax' jump ball/red-zone ability, Edwards' speed, or Boldin and TO's physical strength/ability to separate. Like I said, if he projected as a #1 wideout with some drop issues, that'd be one thing. But even when he's on his game, he's more of a #2/#3 guy, and he doesn't offer any outstanding quality that makes up for his drops.

 

 

And also at this point nothing is set in stone. I think that if a value drops to us in Nicks or Robiskie then we wouldn't Massaquoi over them. I think that we might like him at the top of the next tier of WR, like the Murphys, Ramses, etc. Those guys all have certain issues and other things must go into consideration when drafting them.

 

Plus I wouldn't be surprised if we go with the Johnson safety kid.

[Stinger226]

And also at this point nothing is set in stone. I think that if a value drops to us in Nicks or Robiskie then we wouldn't Massaquoi over them. I think that we might like him at the top of the next tier of WR, like the Murphys, Ramses, etc. Those guys all have certain issues and other things must go into consideration when drafting them.

 

Plus I wouldn't be surprised if we go with the Johnson safety kid.

I think we might have an interest for him but not at 2. Probably a 3rd or 4th pick. He may or may not be there then. I have a feeling we will be surprized by the Bears 2nd round pick. Like a 1st rounder dropping down that low and cant pass him up.

[bradjock]

So let me get this straight: You're upset because we're thinking about "reaching" for a player in the 2nd round? A better question would be: When the hell haven't we reached for a guy in the 2nd round? Just to name a few:

 

2008--Matt Forte: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he considered something like a 5th rounder before the senior bowl & the combine? Even then, Bear fans were furious that Angelo drafted a guy in round 2 who'd have been there in round 3. (Steal)

 

2007--Dan Bazuin: HUGE reach at #2. Projected much later. (Bust)

 

2006--Devin Hester: Again, Bear fans were furious we reached for a player who'd have been there later. (Steal)

 

2006--D Manning: Actually I think he was picked around where he was supposed to go. (Push)

 

2005--Mark Bradley: Bear fans were flat out PISSED. JA justified it by saying Green Bay was trying to trade up to get him. (Injured)

 

2004--Tank Johnson: A "Value Pick" (Turd)

 

2003--Charles Tillman: Bear fans everywhere were asking, "How the hell do we take a guy from Louisiana Lafayette in round 2? (Steal)

 

Honestly, JA's 3 best 2nd round picks were considered "reaches."

 

So do we draft a guy like Iglesias in round two just because that's where he's projected to go?

 

 

 

 

Not a fan, at least not in the 2nd round. Frankly, the 3rd round is iffy for me.

 

I just really have an issue w/ players who rise by leaps and bounds in the offseason. Barden is another I question, at least as high (2nd round to Oakland) as I have heard some talk about.

 

I know players move up and down in the offseason, but players who take major leaps (or downturns) are players that raise red flags for me. Very shortly ago, he was considered a 4th or 5th rounder. Then he started to climb. Okay, fine. But the 2nd round? That is a 2 to 3 round rise. That is a bit much for me. Ditto Barden.

 

I personally believe too much is made out of offseason stuff, and too often the offseason stuff begins to cloud what the player actually did on the field. If a guy was mediocre in college, but is 6'4 and runs a 4.34/40, all of a sudden he is a great prospect. Forget that he never could do crap in college. Not saying that is Mosoquai, but the point is the same.

 

If a guy rises some in value, fine. But when the rise is extreme, I just have to really question the value of that pick.

 

On the opposite side of that, I don't mind looking at a guy who slips some. Depends on the reason, sure. But if a WR was a stud in college, for a major program, but then slips because he could put up a great time on a track, in shorts...well, that is a player I like to draft.

[nfoligno]

Not sure I get your point. Sure, we reach for some players, and other times we go after a guy who slipped. That really isn't what I am talking about. I simply think if a guy rises by leaps and bounds warrants a "buyer beware" flag.

 

That isn't to say a guy who leaps from undrafted to 1st round is w/o question going to be a bust. No. The point is a player who rises by numerous rounds raises a big red flag for me. While I am not saying there is no scenario where I would draft him, I am saying I usually try to avoid such a player.

 

He isn't the only one. I just really worry about guys who are considered late round picks based on the way they played on the field, but then they show how good they can look in shorts, and suddenly they leap up the boards. Sorry, but for me, that is a red flag.

 

 

So let me get this straight: You're upset because we're thinking about "reaching" for a player in the 2nd round? A better question would be: When the hell haven't we reached for a guy in the 2nd round? Just to name a few:

 

2008--Matt Forte: Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he considered something like a 5th rounder before the senior bowl & the combine? Even then, Bear fans were furious that Angelo drafted a guy in round 2 who'd have been there in round 3. (Steal)

 

2007--Dan Bazuin: HUGE reach at #2. Projected much later. (Bust)

 

2006--Devin Hester: Again, Bear fans were furious we reached for a player who'd have been there later. (Steal)

 

2006--D Manning: Actually I think he was picked around where he was supposed to go. (Push)

 

2005--Mark Bradley: Bear fans were flat out PISSED. JA justified it by saying Green Bay was trying to trade up to get him. (Injured)

 

2004--Tank Johnson: A "Value Pick" (Turd)

 

2003--Charles Tillman: Bear fans everywhere were asking, "How the hell do we take a guy from Louisiana Lafayette in round 2? (Steal)

 

Honestly, JA's 3 best 2nd round picks were considered "reaches."

 

So do we draft a guy like Iglesias in round two just because that's where he's projected to go?

[defiantgiant]

Honestly, JA's 3 best 2nd round picks were considered "reaches."

 

So do we draft a guy like Iglesias in round two just because that's where he's projected to go?

 

First things first: I'd be way happier to get Iglesias in round two than Massaquoi. Iglesias is faster, produced way more, has better hands, runs better routes, gets separation much more easily, etc etc. Check out their scouting reports on CBS Sports: they break down every receiver's game area by area. At the end, they compare Iglesias to Bobby Engram and Massaquoi to...Keary Colbert. Engram and Colbert were both mid-2nd-round picks, but I think we know who turned out to be a steal and who turned out to be a massive reach.

 

That's really my main point: I think it's a little pointless to debate the merits of reaching in general, rather than discussing a particular player and WHY he'd be considered a reach at that spot. Look at the guys on your list from small programs: Forte from Tulane, Tillman from Louisiana Lafayette, Manning from Abilene Christian. They were all considered reaches because of their level of competition: all three proved that they could be contributors (even Manning, now that he's at nickel) at the next level. So I'll put "level of competition" down as an OK reason to reach for a guy.

 

Look at the guys from big programs, and ask yourself why they dropped: Bradley had major injury concerns, Johnson was a huge character risk, Bazuin wasn't considered athletic enough to be a pass-rusher or strong enough to be a base end. Hester was the only guy with no red flag, aside from the fact that he was very raw and would need to learn a non-returner position.

 

Of those four, the questions about every single one of them turned out to be apt: Bradley couldn't get over his injuries, Johnson got in trouble with the law, Bazuin could never cut it as an NFL DE, and Hester is still learning his position. So you have to look at how much each player's issues hurt the team, and how much less valuable they were because of those issues.

 

In Hester's case, he could be considered less valuable because he could only contribute IMMEDIATELY at returner (which he did on a historic scale) and would need to learn to be a WR. That's an OK reason to reach for someone: look how it turned out for Chicago.

 

The other three, as it turns out, were considered less valuable for very good reason. That's why none of them are still on the team: they might have had some good points, but they couldn't contribute long-term because of the exact issues that were identified in the draft. Lesson learned: it's riskier to reach for someone who drops because of injuries, legal trouble, or physical inability to play his position. Massaquoi falls directly into that last category: if a wide receiver is a reach because he can't catch, don't reach for him.