WR or FS in the 2nd?

[nfoligno]

In talking w/ a friend, more and more, I am beginning to think our 2nd round pick will be all about WR, and rounds 3 through 6 will pretty much go defense. Others might argue our need for a FS is just as great. Some argue DL is a favorite position for Angelo, and he may want to offer Marinelli (and Lovie) some more talent.

 

But I really am beginning to think we will draft the best available WR in round 2. We all know WR is a need, but reasons I think we will go WR beyond that.

 

Angelo went FAR outside his comfort zone in getting Cutler. This is the sort of move that instantly (IMHO) ties a GMs fate to a single player. If Cutler booms, Angelo will be remembered in a positive light for the long haul. If Cutler bombs, Angelo will likely be run out of town. I have said, and still maintain, I will never attack Angelo, regardless of what happens w/ Cutler, but I think the public overall would turn on Angelo pretty quick if Cutler bombs. Anyway, I think Angelo is going to look to add insurance behind his bet.

 

A great QB can make good WRs look great, and average WRs look good, but there is a question whether we even have average WRs, but there is a questions as to whether we even have average WRs. If we do not upgrade the WR position, Cutler's star may not shine so bright, and thus Angelo's star would see the same shading effect. So I think Angelo will be locked in to add a weapon at the top of the draft for Cutler.

 

The other aspect of this is, I think Angelo believes (and there is some evidence to support) he is pretty good finding solid defensive talent deeper in the draft. He may well believe he can more easily find solid defensive players after the 2nd. So while he may acknowledge we have needs at several defensive positions, especially FS, if he believes he can find diamonds in the rough, he could choose to draft WR first and then go D there after.

 

We all hope there isn't a run on WRs, and maybe even some solid player slip some. My pie in the sky prayer would be for Nicks to fall. More realistic and yet nearly as much of a prayer, is for Robiskie to slip to us. But even if all the player who "we" may view as solid picks are gone, I think Angelo may regardless draft WR. I think our 2nd round pick will be a need pick rather than a value pick. Think about his first draft. In the 1st, there was no question OT was a top tier need, but few considered Columbo a very good value, and fewer still would have considered him the best available, yet he was our pick anyway. I think we could see the same again this year. Thus, if Mossaquoi is the top rated WR on the board, he would be our pick, even if our "big board" ranks (for example) R.Johnson or Sidbury as higher overall grades.

 

So I think we will see a WR taken in the 2nd round. After that, I think it will be pretty much all defense until the 7th round, where I think we could see all three picks going back to offense.

 

2nd - WR

 

3rd - FS (is there any question this needs ranks up there w/ WR?)

 

4th - DE (Angelo loves the position, and we have little by way or proven commodities, and one starter due to hit FA next year)

 

5th - DB/LB (w/ our two 5th round picks, I see a CB and a LB. CB because Angelo often sees diamond in the rough types that fall and LB because, while we have two set starters in Briggs and Urlacher, Hunter played his way to the bench and Roach didn't step up, so our SLB spot is wide open, and combine that with the declining play of Urlacher.

 

6th - DT (We have Harris and Harrison, but after that....I like Adams, but I do not think the staff has ever been very much in his corner, Dusty may be on his way out, and Idonije is supposed to be dropping weight to move back to DE/special teams)

 

7th - QB/OL/WR/RB - I think all three picks in the 7th round go to offense, and feel 3 of the 4 listed will be drafted, w/ the 4th being a position we see several post-draft rookies brought in. If I were to guess, I would guess QB, OL and WR.

[azbearsfan]

In talking w/ a friend, more and more, I am beginning to think our 2nd round pick will be all about WR, and rounds 3 through 6 will pretty much go defense. Others might argue our need for a FS is just as great. Some argue DL is a favorite position for Angelo, and he may want to offer Marinelli (and Lovie) some more talent.

 

But I really am beginning to think we will draft the best available WR in round 2. We all know WR is a need, but reasons I think we will go WR beyond that.

 

Angelo went FAR outside his comfort zone in getting Cutler. This is the sort of move that instantly (IMHO) ties a GMs fate to a single player. If Cutler booms, Angelo will be remembered in a positive light for the long haul. If Cutler bombs, Angelo will likely be run out of town. I have said, and still maintain, I will never attack Angelo, regardless of what happens w/ Cutler, but I think the public overall would turn on Angelo pretty quick if Cutler bombs. Anyway, I think Angelo is going to look to add insurance behind his bet.

 

A great QB can make good WRs look great, and average WRs look good, but there is a question whether we even have average WRs, but there is a questions as to whether we even have average WRs. If we do not upgrade the WR position, Cutler's star may not shine so bright, and thus Angelo's star would see the same shading effect. So I think Angelo will be locked in to add a weapon at the top of the draft for Cutler.

 

The other aspect of this is, I think Angelo believes (and there is some evidence to support) he is pretty good finding solid defensive talent deeper in the draft. He may well believe he can more easily find solid defensive players after the 2nd. So while he may acknowledge we have needs at several defensive positions, especially FS, if he believes he can find diamonds in the rough, he could choose to draft WR first and then go D there after.

 

We all hope there isn't a run on WRs, and maybe even some solid player slip some. My pie in the sky prayer would be for Nicks to fall. More realistic and yet nearly as much of a prayer, is for Robiskie to slip to us. But even if all the player who "we" may view as solid picks are gone, I think Angelo may regardless draft WR. I think our 2nd round pick will be a need pick rather than a value pick. Think about his first draft. In the 1st, there was no question OT was a top tier need, but few considered Columbo a very good value, and fewer still would have considered him the best available, yet he was our pick anyway. I think we could see the same again this year. Thus, if Mossaquoi is the top rated WR on the board, he would be our pick, even if our "big board" ranks (for example) R.Johnson or Sidbury as higher overall grades.

 

So I think we will see a WR taken in the 2nd round. After that, I think it will be pretty much all defense until the 7th round, where I think we could see all three picks going back to offense.

 

2nd - WR

 

3rd - FS (is there any question this needs ranks up there w/ WR?)

 

4th - DE (Angelo loves the position, and we have little by way or proven commodities, and one starter due to hit FA next year)

 

5th - DB/LB (w/ our two 5th round picks, I see a CB and a LB. CB because Angelo often sees diamond in the rough types that fall and LB because, while we have two set starters in Briggs and Urlacher, Hunter played his way to the bench and Roach didn't step up, so our SLB spot is wide open, and combine that with the declining play of Urlacher.

 

6th - DT (We have Harris and Harrison, but after that....I like Adams, but I do not think the staff has ever been very much in his corner, Dusty may be on his way out, and Idonije is supposed to be dropping weight to move back to DE/special teams)

 

7th - QB/OL/WR/RB - I think all three picks in the 7th round go to offense, and feel 3 of the 4 listed will be drafted, w/ the 4th being a position we see several post-draft rookies brought in. If I were to guess, I would guess QB, OL and WR.

 

 

Its funny you bring this up, because I have been reading and reading everything and anything on who we have been scouting and such.

 

I think there is a really good chance that we take some picks that are considered "reaches" by the traditional sources but will be players that we really like for one reason or another (kind of like the Forte and Hester picks were reaches).

 

The second round pick will be interesting. There could be some WR's that fall to us OR we could spend that pic on Massaquoi. I agree, I think WR is the pick regardless.

 

A player I would not be surprised to see us get with the 3rd rounder is Mike Mitchell S Ohio. He has experience at FS, SS, CB, runs well, hits hard, and seems like an intelligent player. Even if it would be considered a "reach" I think they like him alot.

 

I also think they like the DE from Texas in the fourth round.

 

It looks like it will be an interesting day.

 

 

My only prediction is that people on this board will probably be pissed (like they were after the Hester pick)

[nfoligno]

A player I would not be surprised to see us get with the 3rd rounder is Mike Mitchell S Ohio. He has experience at FS, SS, CB, runs well, hits hard, and seems like an intelligent player. Even if it would be considered a "reach" I think they like him alot.

 

Isn't Mitchell considered a SS? He may have experience all over, but don't most project him at SS? And talk about a reach. The couple key publications I often look at both have him listed as an undrafted FA. Maybe he goes in the later part of the draft, but the 3rd?

 

I also think they like the DE from Texas in the fourth round.

 

I assume you mean Melton and not Orakpo. If we drafted Melton, I would be a bit sick. Can you say John Theirry? Melton is the sort who, in the offseason, he looks great. Look at him run around in shorts, or see how he is built, and he looks great. On the field though...

 

Melton was a RB initially at Texas. I think he played RB his first year or two, but was then converted to DE. I don't think he really even played at DE until this last year, and really didn't do much of anything to standout. Especially w/ Orakpo drawing all the attention, you would think Melton would have been positioned to do more.

 

Not saying we wouldn't take him, but simply that I think he has bust written all over him. He is a guy who is drafted due to what scouts see him do in shorts, and not in pads. If you go off what he did in pads, he would not even be drafted.

 

A player I would watch is Matt Shaughnessy. First, you just have to love the name. Second, how about this quote, "Shaughnessy is the kind of player you could envision stepping out on the field in a leather helmet playing for George Halas". He suffered some injuries, which could push his draft stock down (good value/risk pick) but he is just the sort of edge pass rusher Angelo/Lovie love to add.

[azbearsfan]

A player I would not be surprised to see us get with the 3rd rounder is Mike Mitchell S Ohio. He has experience at FS, SS, CB, runs well, hits hard, and seems like an intelligent player. Even if it would be considered a "reach" I think they like him alot.

 

Isn't Mitchell considered a SS? He may have experience all over, but don't most project him at SS? And talk about a reach. The couple key publications I often look at both have him listed as an undrafted FA. Maybe he goes in the later part of the draft, but the 3rd?

 

I also think they like the DE from Texas in the fourth round.

 

I assume you mean Melton and not Orakpo. If we drafted Melton, I would be a bit sick. Can you say John Theirry? Melton is the sort who, in the offseason, he looks great. Look at him run around in shorts, or see how he is built, and he looks great. On the field though...

 

Melton was a RB initially at Texas. I think he played RB his first year or two, but was then converted to DE. I don't think he really even played at DE until this last year, and really didn't do much of anything to standout. Especially w/ Orakpo drawing all the attention, you would think Melton would have been positioned to do more.

 

Not saying we wouldn't take him, but simply that I think he has bust written all over him. He is a guy who is drafted due to what scouts see him do in shorts, and not in pads. If you go off what he did in pads, he would not even be drafted.

 

A player I would watch is Matt Shaughnessy. First, you just have to love the name. Second, how about this quote, "Shaughnessy is the kind of player you could envision stepping out on the field in a leather helmet playing for George Halas". He suffered some injuries, which could push his draft stock down (good value/risk pick) but he is just the sort of edge pass rusher Angelo/Lovie love to add.

 

 

From reading the Bears blog at ESPNChicago.com, teams are starting to liek the Mitchell kid and he infers that he might not be there with our 4th rounder.

 

I think we will reach for some kids that we don't think will be there with our next pick just to make sure we get them.

 

I think if we go for a DE it will be a purely stats guy. A fast, mostly pass rush guy.

 

I could be wrong.

 

The thing about this draft is it is so all over the place. I've read a ton of mocks and they are so different from each other its amazing. Even if you look at people on the boards predictions, there are players some are high on and others think will be UDFA's.

 

Again, I think people will be pissed, but I also think that some of the reaches that people will be hammering JA for will turn out to be good players.

[Stinger226]

From reading the Bears blog at ESPNChicago.com, teams are starting to liek the Mitchell kid and he infers that he might not be there with our 4th rounder.

 

I think we will reach for some kids that we don't think will be there with our next pick just to make sure we get them.

 

I think if we go for a DE it will be a purely stats guy. A fast, mostly pass rush guy.

 

I could be wrong.

 

The thing about this draft is it is so all over the place. I've read a ton of mocks and they are so different from each other its amazing. Even if you look at people on the boards predictions, there are players some are high on and others think will be UDFA's.

 

Again, I think people will be pissed, but I also think that some of the reaches that people will be hammering JA for will turn out to be good players.

I dont think they will be reaching for any players. They will take the highest reated player on there board that are a FS,DE, or WR. I think that pick will be a suprize to us because someone rated as a 1st round pick will drop to us at that point. Let us say Havin/WR or Johnson/DE or Hood/DT. I think they think the way to win is to redo the defense and that will be there proirity early, unless a high rated WR drops to us. Pressure on the QB and a solid FS are highest on there list and fit the WR somewhere in the first 3 picks.

[bradjock]

You're preaching to the choir here NFO. Literally everything we have said & done in our pre-draft preparations, from not bothering to sign a veteran WR, to bringing in just about every potential 2nd round WR pick for a workout, indicates we're locked into a WR in the 2nd round.

 

Think about it this way: We only have 3 NFL caliber WR's on the roster, yet we've not been rumored to be interested in a SINGLE WR. How the hell is the possible unless we're extremely comfortable with a player who's likely to be available in round #2.

 

In a previous post I suggested that we've known this for months. Up until the point we traded for Cutler, we planned on drafting an OT in round #1. But the #1 pick went bye-bye, and we signed Pace IMMEDIATELY afterwords.

 

Agree with your ideas on drafting a safety in round 3. There should be a few solid FS's available when we pick.

 

The one thing I'd disagree with is Angelo's fate being tied to Cutler. Mainly because seemingly every Bear fan wanted the guy. He won't receive too much grief for this. Ultimately his fate will be tied to what it's always been tied too: Wins and losses. And Angelo's Bear teams have proven they can win with really bad quarterback play.

 

In talking w/ a friend, more and more, I am beginning to think our 2nd round pick will be all about WR, and rounds 3 through 6 will pretty much go defense. Others might argue our need for a FS is just as great. Some argue DL is a favorite position for Angelo, and he may want to offer Marinelli (and Lovie) some more talent.

 

But I really am beginning to think we will draft the best available WR in round 2. We all know WR is a need, but reasons I think we will go WR beyond that.

 

Angelo went FAR outside his comfort zone in getting Cutler. This is the sort of move that instantly (IMHO) ties a GMs fate to a single player. If Cutler booms, Angelo will be remembered in a positive light for the long haul. If Cutler bombs, Angelo will likely be run out of town. I have said, and still maintain, I will never attack Angelo, regardless of what happens w/ Cutler, but I think the public overall would turn on Angelo pretty quick if Cutler bombs. Anyway, I think Angelo is going to look to add insurance behind his bet.

 

A great QB can make good WRs look great, and average WRs look good, but there is a question whether we even have average WRs, but there is a questions as to whether we even have average WRs. If we do not upgrade the WR position, Cutler's star may not shine so bright, and thus Angelo's star would see the same shading effect. So I think Angelo will be locked in to add a weapon at the top of the draft for Cutler.

 

The other aspect of this is, I think Angelo believes (and there is some evidence to support) he is pretty good finding solid defensive talent deeper in the draft. He may well believe he can more easily find solid defensive players after the 2nd. So while he may acknowledge we have needs at several defensive positions, especially FS, if he believes he can find diamonds in the rough, he could choose to draft WR first and then go D there after.

 

We all hope there isn't a run on WRs, and maybe even some solid player slip some. My pie in the sky prayer would be for Nicks to fall. More realistic and yet nearly as much of a prayer, is for Robiskie to slip to us. But even if all the player who "we" may view as solid picks are gone, I think Angelo may regardless draft WR. I think our 2nd round pick will be a need pick rather than a value pick. Think about his first draft. In the 1st, there was no question OT was a top tier need, but few considered Columbo a very good value, and fewer still would have considered him the best available, yet he was our pick anyway. I think we could see the same again this year. Thus, if Mossaquoi is the top rated WR on the board, he would be our pick, even if our "big board" ranks (for example) R.Johnson or Sidbury as higher overall grades.

 

So I think we will see a WR taken in the 2nd round. After that, I think it will be pretty much all defense until the 7th round, where I think we could see all three picks going back to offense.

 

2nd - WR

 

3rd - FS (is there any question this needs ranks up there w/ WR?)

 

4th - DE (Angelo loves the position, and we have little by way or proven commodities, and one starter due to hit FA next year)

 

5th - DB/LB (w/ our two 5th round picks, I see a CB and a LB. CB because Angelo often sees diamond in the rough types that fall and LB because, while we have two set starters in Briggs and Urlacher, Hunter played his way to the bench and Roach didn't step up, so our SLB spot is wide open, and combine that with the declining play of Urlacher.

 

6th - DT (We have Harris and Harrison, but after that....I like Adams, but I do not think the staff has ever been very much in his corner, Dusty may be on his way out, and Idonije is supposed to be dropping weight to move back to DE/special teams)

 

7th - QB/OL/WR/RB - I think all three picks in the 7th round go to offense, and feel 3 of the 4 listed will be drafted, w/ the 4th being a position we see several post-draft rookies brought in. If I were to guess, I would guess QB, OL and WR.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I also think WR is the main target, but if Nicks/Robiskie are gone, we may look to move down to regain a pick. Move down 10-15 spots and regain a late 3rd to early 4th RD pick. I think the type of WR we need is someone who is a little bigger in size that can use his body/height to help out Cutler:

 

Brian Robiskie 6-3 210 4.50 .................................2nd

Mohammed Massaquoi 6-1.5 210 4.67..................late 2nd-3rd

Louis Murphy 6-2 205 4.43...................................3rd

Ramses Barden 6-6 230 4.61.............................late 3rd-4th

Marko Mitchell 6-3.5 218 4.47............................4th-5th

Aaron Kelly 6-4 205 4.55..................................5th

Patrick Turner 6-5 223 4.70...............................6th

 

I'd be very happy if we can trade down w/ CAR to 59.

we trade:

2-49 = 410

5-154 = 29.8

.....for CAR's...

2-59 = 310

3-93 = 128

 

2-59 Mohammade Massaquoi WR..........Bigger WR that can block/catch

3-93 Gerald Cardogan OT.........Penn St LT has played G, young swing OT

3-99 David Bruton FS..............has all the athletic ability, will need some work on angles/technique

4-119 Zack Follett OLB............Lovie loves Follett, don't be surprised if he's our 3rd RD selection

5-140 Marko Mitchell WR ........Bigger deep threat for Cutler

6-191 Quinn Johnson FB...........Johnson or Flameatta -FB to replace McKie whos often injured

7-246 Kirston Pittman DE..........LSU DE who's play slipped some last year compared to 2007

7-251 Donald Washington CB Ohio ST/ Morgan Trent CB Mich........bigger CB's in mold of Tillman that played at big programs

7-

[dawhizz]

You're preaching to the choir here NFO. Literally everything we have said & done in our pre-draft preparations, from not bothering to sign a veteran WR, to bringing in just about every potential 2nd round WR pick for a workout, indicates we're locked into a WR in the 2nd round.

 

Think about it this way: We only have 3 NFL caliber WR's on the roster, yet we've not been rumored to be interested in a SINGLE WR. How the hell is the possible unless we're extremely comfortable with a player who's likely to be available in round #2.

 

I don't know that the reason we haven't looked at WR is because we are "locked into a WR in the 2nd." The fact is, most teams are in a bit of a holding pattern regarding free agents, waiting to see what the draft brings before committing money to a FA. Since the Cutler trade, exactly one FA WR has been signed (Ronald Curry to the Lions today). I think the Bears are going into the draft with the right mindset. They know what WRs will be out there in FA and they can be fairly confident that they have a favorable situation for the free agent WRs with Cutler in the fold, which can give them some confidence in the market. Now they can look at their picks in each round and weigh the draftee against the players in free agency, instead of committing money to a FA, then finding out a guy you like better ends up being available at a value pick.

[bradjock]

I don't know that the reason we haven't looked at WR is because we are "locked into a WR in the 2nd." The fact is, most teams are in a bit of a holding pattern regarding free agents, waiting to see what the draft brings before committing money to a FA. Since the Cutler trade, exactly one FA WR has been signed (Ronald Curry to the Lions today). I think the Bears are going into the draft with the right mindset. They know what WRs will be out there in FA and they can be fairly confident that they have a favorable situation for the free agent WRs with Cutler in the fold, which can give them some confidence in the market. Now they can look at their picks in each round and weigh the draftee against the players in free agency, instead of committing money to a FA, then finding out a guy you like better ends up being available at a value pick.

 

You make a lot of sense, but I see one MAJOR flaw with your theory: The Bears need TWO WR's.

 

If the season started today, we have enough competent NFL players to fill every position . . . excpet for WR.

 

And don't forget we NEVER showed interest in a WR even before the Cutler trade. And when free agency hit back at the end of February, there's no way in hell we know Cutler would be available or that we'd have a crack at him.

 

Rashied Davis is a great back-up & special teams guy, Earl Bennett projects as a slot receiver, and we've hinted we'll reduce Hester's receiving time to focus on getting him back to being a great punt-returner.

 

Hell, we might need 3 WR's.

 

Not to mention that anybody at this point will fall into one of two categories:

1. Fairly big money (Tori Holt & Plaxico)

2. Dirt freakin' cheap (think Brandon Lloyd & Marty Booker)

 

There's absolutely no reason to wait to sign a guy.

[dawhizz]

You make a lot of sense, but I see one MAJOR flaw with your theory: The Bears need TWO WR's.

 

If the season started today, we have enough competent NFL players to fill every position . . . excpet for WR.

 

And don't forget we NEVER showed interest in a WR even before the Cutler trade. And when free agency hit back at the end of February, there's no way in hell we know Cutler would be available or that we'd have a crack at him.

 

Rashied Davis is a great back-up & special teams guy, Earl Bennett projects as a slot receiver, and we've hinted we'll reduce Hester's receiving time to focus on getting him back to being a great punt-returner.

 

Hell, we might need 3 WR's.

 

Not to mention that anybody at this point will fall into one of two categories:

1. Fairly big money (Tori Holt & Plaxico)

2. Dirt freakin' cheap (think Brandon Lloyd & Marty Booker)

 

There's absolutely no reason to wait to sign a guy.

 

I actually just started a thread about this, but I wouldn't be at all suprised if the Bears end up with two WRs from this draft in the first 5 rounds. That would give them 5 WR options and they can go out right after the draft and sign the veteran WR of their choice. If everyone we would sign now falls into one of those two categories, why are we running to sign them? I think this just says "We don't love the free agents WRs (completely justifiable), so let's see what the draft brings."

[nfoligno]

The one thing I'd disagree with is Angelo's fate being tied to Cutler. Mainly because seemingly every Bear fan wanted the guy. He won't receive too much grief for this. Ultimately his fate will be tied to what it's always been tied too: Wins and losses. And Angelo's Bear teams have proven they can win with really bad quarterback play.

 

He won't receive too much grief? Are you kidding. If Angelo sends two #1 picks and a 3rd, plus Orton, and the player in return busts, you "don't think he would get too much grief for this"?

 

Sorry, but fans have short term (selective short term) memory. A fan who screamed to draft Williams last year now shouts how could Angelo draft a guy w/ injury red flags. A fan who thought it was time for Benson and time to get rid of TJ now wonders what our GM was thinking. Sorry, but that is the way it goes.

 

It is often said 1st round draft picks can make or break a GM. Even if he does well w/ other picks, if the picks most in the spotlight (and w/ the biggest contracts) bomb, then that GM has cloudy future. If a GM trades away two #1s (not to mention the rest), I would absolutely argue his future would be tied to that player.

 

I personally will never rip Angelo, and will forever give him credit for the move, regardless whether it works out or not. But IMHO, a huge number of fans (if Cutler were to bomb) would be talking about how great Orton "could have been" and would talk about who we could have had w/ the picks we gave up. Suck is the way it goes in the NFL, and life.

[ParkerBear7]

I also think WR is the main target, but if Nicks/Robiskie are gone, we may look to move down to regain a pick. Move down 10-15 spots and regain a late 3rd to early 4th RD pick. I think the type of WR we need is someone who is a little bigger in size that can use his body/height to help out Cutler:

 

Brian Robiskie 6-3 210 4.50 .................................2nd

Mohammed Massaquoi 6-1.5 210 4.67..................late 2nd-3rd

Louis Murphy 6-2 205 4.43...................................3rd

Ramses Barden 6-6 230 4.61.............................late 3rd-4th

Marko Mitchell 6-3.5 218 4.47............................4th-5th

Aaron Kelly 6-4 205 4.55..................................5th

Patrick Turner 6-5 223 4.70...............................6th

 

I'd be very happy if we can trade down w/ CAR to 59.

we trade:

2-49 = 410

5-154 = 29.8

.....for CAR's...

2-59 = 310

3-93 = 128

 

2-59 Mohammade Massaquoi WR..........Bigger WR that can block/catch

3-93 Gerald Cardogan OT.........Penn St LT has played G, young swing OT

3-99 David Bruton FS..............has all the athletic ability, will need some work on angles/technique

4-119 Zack Follett OLB............Lovie loves Follett, don't be surprised if he's our 3rd RD selection

5-140 Marko Mitchell WR ........Bigger deep threat for Cutler

6-191 Quinn Johnson FB...........Johnson or Flameatta -FB to replace McKie whos often injured

7-246 Kirston Pittman DE..........LSU DE who's play slipped some last year compared to 2007

7-251 Donald Washington CB Ohio ST/ Morgan Trent CB Mich........bigger CB's in mold of Tillman that played at big programs

7-

 

 

Yes there is no doubt the Bears are doing there due dilligence on the WR prospects. If you watch the draft video "Inside the Draft pt. 3" on chicagobears.com there is a clip of Lovie, JA and Turner in a meeting discussing WR's and without mentioning names JA is describing a prospect as a player who he predicts will have a career similar to MOOSE. I wonder which prospect he is refering to?

[Mongo3451]

name='nfoligno' date='Apr 16 2009, 10:37 PM' post='63003']

The one thing I'd disagree with is Angelo's fate being tied to Cutler. Mainly because seemingly every Bear fan wanted the guy. He won't receive too much grief for this. Ultimately his fate will be tied to what it's always been tied too: Wins and losses. And Angelo's Bear teams have proven they can win with really bad quarterback play.

 

He won't receive too much grief? Are you kidding. If Angelo sends two #1 picks and a 3rd, plus Orton, and the player in return busts, you "don't think he would get too much grief for this"?

I gotta go against you on this one. Angelo is golden ovr this move. If Cutler doesn't pan out, it's on the coaches. Furthermore, if Orton becomes an all-pro Lovie and Turner will have some explaining to do. Angelo will have some red-ass over hiring incompetant coaches, but Cutler will remain tied to coaching and scheme.

 

I personally will never rip Angelo, and will forever give him credit for the move, regardless whether it works out or not. But IMHO, a huge number of fans (if Cutler were to bomb) would be talking about how great Orton "could have been" and would talk about who we could have had w/ the picks we gave up. Suck is the way it goes in the NFL, and life.

We can't rip Angelo for Cutler. We've been crying for this moment for years. He's put us in position more than once. Again, this season and at least next is on the coaches and players.

[nfoligno]

I understand your reasoning. As I said, you will never see me complain about the move, regardless what happens from here on w/ Cutler, or Orton.

 

At the same time, i still believe Angelo is now tied to this move. This is a HUGE move, and one simply not often seen. I would argue that such a move simply has immediate effect on the legacy of an individual.

 

Today, I think everyone is thrilled, but I simply believe that if it doesn't work, we will here a massive level of second guessing by those w/ short term memory.

 

Often, if a GM drafted a QB w/ the 1st pick in the draft, his legacy can be tied to that player. Here, Angelo didn't use the #1 pick in the draft, but did use two #1s, a 3rd and a QB to get a QB he views as a franchise QB. I just feel that if it doesn't work out, Angelo will find himself on the outs as well.

 

Honestly, I think all this talk is moot. I think Cutler was well worth the price, and Cutler will be great. At the same time, I simply believe Angelo will be looking to backup the move he made by drafting the best WR available in the 2nd round. I would also argue that is the smart thing to do. If you do go out and add a player of such a level of Cutler, I think you must then do whatever it takes to support such a move.

 

I gotta go against you on this one. Angelo is golden ovr this move. If Cutler doesn't pan out, it's on the coaches. Furthermore, if Orton becomes an all-pro Lovie and Turner will have some explaining to do. Angelo will have some red-ass over hiring incompetant coaches, but Cutler will remain tied to coaching and scheme.

 

 

We can't rip Angelo for Cutler. We've been crying for this moment for years. He's put us in position more than once. Again, this season and at least next is on the coaches and players.

[azbearsfan]

I understand your reasoning. As I said, you will never see me complain about the move, regardless what happens from here on w/ Cutler, or Orton.

 

At the same time, i still believe Angelo is now tied to this move. This is a HUGE move, and one simply not often seen. I would argue that such a move simply has immediate effect on the legacy of an individual.

 

Today, I think everyone is thrilled, but I simply believe that if it doesn't work, we will here a massive level of second guessing by those w/ short term memory.

 

Often, if a GM drafted a QB w/ the 1st pick in the draft, his legacy can be tied to that player. Here, Angelo didn't use the #1 pick in the draft, but did use two #1s, a 3rd and a QB to get a QB he views as a franchise QB. I just feel that if it doesn't work out, Angelo will find himself on the outs as well.

 

Honestly, I think all this talk is moot. I think Cutler was well worth the price, and Cutler will be great. At the same time, I simply believe Angelo will be looking to backup the move he made by drafting the best WR available in the 2nd round. I would also argue that is the smart thing to do. If you do go out and add a player of such a level of Cutler, I think you must then do whatever it takes to support such a move.

 

 

The bottom line on JA is that he is good until his contract runs out. They are not going to pay him to sit at home. So he is all set for four or five more years.

[nfoligno]

Just not sure I agree w/ that. Wanny and Jauron both were fired prior to the end of their contract. I realize Angelo is a GM and they were coaches, but we do not have a GM in recent history to use as a reference, and thus I would argue a head coach is as close as we can get to compare to.

 

If the team does decent or well, sure, Angelo is most likely safe, but if we start putting up multiple seasons, I think we could see Angelo fired prior to the end of his contract.

 

The bottom line on JA is that he is good until his contract runs out. They are not going to pay him to sit at home. So he is all set for four or five more years.

[azbearsfan]

Just not sure I agree w/ that. Wanny and Jauron both were fired prior to the end of their contract. I realize Angelo is a GM and they were coaches, but we do not have a GM in recent history to use as a reference, and thus I would argue a head coach is as close as we can get to compare to.

 

If the team does decent or well, sure, Angelo is most likely safe, but if we start putting up multiple seasons, I think we could see Angelo fired prior to the end of his contract.

 

 

How many years did Wanny and Jauron have left on their contracts?

[nfoligno]

One or two I think, which would fall w/in the time frame of what I am saying for Angelo. Angelo has what, 4 years left. If we were to bomb the next two seasons, then he would have 2 years remaining, and I think would absolutely be in jeapordy.

 

How many years did Wanny and Jauron have left on their contracts?

[azbearsfan]

One or two I think, which would fall w/in the time frame of what I am saying for Angelo. Angelo has what, 4 years left. If we were to bomb the next two seasons, then he would have 2 years remaining, and I think would absolutely be in jeapordy.

 

So you are saying in two or three years he might be on the hot seat? Thats pretty vague stuff. lol In two of three years, Detroit might win a SB too. Or they might be the worst team in the league.

 

Alot of stuff can happen in 2 or 3 years, especially with a labor situation brewing.

[nfoligno]

Frankly, the original point has been diverted.

 

My point was simply that I believe Angelo will make a move w/ the 1st pick in the draft to ensure his key acquisition. My point is, Angelo knows everything will ride on how well Cutler does. Further, I argue that our staff is not blind and realize how dire our need for help at WR is. To add Cutler is awesome, but you must then make sure you have talent in place for him to be able to realize his talent. Thus, I believe we will draft a WR in the 2nd round to essentially insure our bet on Cutler.

 

I guess I made the comment that a move like this will forever to tied to Angelo in terms of legacy. Some then argued this, but that is how I see it. This is a move on such a level that, good or bad, Angelo's legacy will by and large be tied to this move.

 

Anyway, back to the original point. We made a massive move in getting Cutler, and I believe we will now insure that move w/ a WR in the 2nd round.

 

So you are saying in two or three years he might be on the hot seat? Thats pretty vague stuff. lol In two of three years, Detroit might win a SB too. Or they might be the worst team in the league.

 

Alot of stuff can happen in 2 or 3 years, especially with a labor situation brewing.

[azbearsfan]

Frankly, the original point has been diverted.

 

My point was simply that I believe Angelo will make a move w/ the 1st pick in the draft to ensure his key acquisition. My point is, Angelo knows everything will ride on how well Cutler does. Further, I argue that our staff is not blind and realize how dire our need for help at WR is. To add Cutler is awesome, but you must then make sure you have talent in place for him to be able to realize his talent. Thus, I believe we will draft a WR in the 2nd round to essentially insure our bet on Cutler.

 

I guess I made the comment that a move like this will forever to tied to Angelo in terms of legacy. Some then argued this, but that is how I see it. This is a move on such a level that, good or bad, Angelo's legacy will by and large be tied to this move.

 

Anyway, back to the original point. We made a massive move in getting Cutler, and I believe we will now insure that move w/ a WR in the 2nd round.

 

 

lol I agree that WR will prolly be what is taken in the 2nd round for us.

 

But, IMO, the trade has secured JA's tenure for years. Before that, not so much. If it doesn't work out, I believe it will be on the coaches hands.

[dawhizz]

My draft board going into the 2nd round pick, as far as guys who could conceivably fall to us (even including some EXTREMELY UNLIKELY falls) would look something like this:

 

1. Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina

2. Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers

3. Brian Robiskie, WR, Ohio State

4. Percy Harvin, WR, Florida

5. Louis Delmas, S, Western Michigan

6. Rashad Johnson, S, Alabama

7. Sean Smith, S, Utah

8. Connor Barwin, DE, Cincinnatti

9. Jairus Byrd, S, Oregon

10. Sherrod Martin, S, Troy

11. Darcel McBath, S, Texas Tech

[AZ54]

The reason we'll likely have to grab a WR with our 2nd Rd pick is because our 3rd Rd pick is basically the first pick in the 4th Rd. Secondly, over his career JA has continually found DB talent later in the draft and I have no reason to think he'll do anything differently this year. Especially given the not so great FS prospects at the top of the list. Is the 8th best WR better rated than the 2nd or 3rd best FS? That just might be how it is on our draft board.

[bradjock]

I guess I made the comment that a move like this will forever to tied to Angelo in terms of legacy. Some then argued this, but that is how I see it. This is a move on such a level that, good or bad, Angelo's legacy will by and large be tied to this move.

 

Disagree for the most part. If Cutler's great, JA's legacy will be that he finally fixed the QB problem. If Cutler is just mediocre, he'll just be another bad QB.

 

Here's why I disagree: Fans generally don't blame JA for spending money on guys who fail. We either blame the player or the coaches. We get pissed when guys like Moose, RMJ, or even Wale cash that huge check and their production drops. We wonder what the hell the coaches are doing. Heck, with Archuletta, we mostly blamed Lovie for wanting "his guy."

 

I'm not saying every fan feels this way, but it happens more often then not. Especially when you compare it to the sheer anger fans feel when a first round pick is a bust (thanks Cedric.) We act like we want to murder JA when he misses on those picks.

 

Trading 2 first rounders will help JA either way. If Cutler's just average, we won't blame JA for trying. If Cutler is horrible, he'll probably be hurt, which again will not be Angelo's fault.

 

The only way I see this trade biting Angelo in the ass is if Orton becomes better then Cutler. If that's the case, JA might as well start packing his bags.

 

Anyway, back to the original point. We made a massive move in getting Cutler, and I believe we will now insure that move w/ a WR in the 2nd round.

 

Agreed. Again, everything we've said or done indicates that this is the direction were headed. IMO, it's not a question of WR vs. safety, but it's just a question of which WR will it be.

[nfoligno]

I guess I made the comment that a move like this will forever to tied to Angelo in terms of legacy. Some then argued this, but that is how I see it. This is a move on such a level that, good or bad, Angelo's legacy will by and large be tied to this move.

 

Disagree for the most part. If Cutler's great, JA's legacy will be that he finally fixed the QB problem. If Cutler is just mediocre, he'll just be another bad QB.

 

Here's why I disagree: Fans generally don't blame JA for spending money on guys who fail. We either blame the player or the coaches. We get pissed when guys like Moose, RMJ, or even Wale cash that huge check and their production drops. We wonder what the hell the coaches are doing. Heck, with Archuletta, we mostly blamed Lovie for wanting "his guy."

 

I'm not saying every fan feels this way, but it happens more often then not. Especially when you compare it to the sheer anger fans feel when a first round pick is a bust (thanks Cedric.) We act like we want to murder JA when he misses on those picks.

 

I guess we just disagree. I think plenty blame Angelo for, for example, Moose. But I would also point out it is hard to make a comparison here. What FA move has Angelo ever made the compares? Wale, Tait and Moose are the three biggest moves that come to mind, and none are even close. But in even those three, Wale and Tait may not have been elite, but were solid enough to keep Angelo from major bashing. Moose? I think more ripped him for the move than you think.

 

Trading 2 first rounders will help JA either way. If Cutler's just average, we won't blame JA for trying. If Cutler is horrible, he'll probably be hurt, which again will not be Angelo's fault.

 

The only way I see this trade biting Angelo in the ass is if Orton becomes better then Cutler. If that's the case, JA might as well start packing his bags.

 

My bad, as I obviously failed to mention a belief of mine. I believe Orton will be good in Denver. I do not think he will be great, and would not expect equal success here. But in Denver, he has better coaching and surrounding talent, and I personally think he can be a good QB. So, while I failed to point it out, I do think Orton does well, and thus if Cutler bombs.......

 

Agreed. Again, everything we've said or done indicates that this is the direction were headed. IMO, it's not a question of WR vs. safety, but it's just a question of which WR will it be.

 

Well, at least we agree here Here is my hope at this point.

 

1. No question my A#1 hope is that Nicks slips all the way to us. In the last few weeks, Nicks stock has fallen some (weight/wonderlic) while a couple other players has risen. Further, some players expected to go WR are now thought to potentially go w/ another position. If we were to add Nicks, combined w/ Cutler and the OL upgrades, I can't tell you how much I would be gushing over Angelo.

 

2. Robiskie is just a tad below Nicks in my book, and again, I would be thrilled like I can't explain.

 

Personally, after Robiskie, I think I would just as soon go FS or trade down. If we have to go WR, I think I would rather reach for Iglesias over some of the other prospects I have heard mentioned.