Angelo Continues to Impress Me....

[madlithuanian]

Sweet indeed! But for me, dessert is always an afterthought...

 

It's the 16 oz. bone-in filet mignon entre that is Cutler!

 

 

I would say the Cutler move is the desert, as it is just so damn "sweeeeeeeet"

[Lucky Luciano]

This rule doesn't remotely hold true. If it were really "more likely than not" that you need two first-round picks and three 2nd-3rds to build an o-line, teams wouldn't have enough picks to go around. Can you name 17 teams in this league that have spent picks like that on their current starting o-line? If you can't, then it's not "more likely than not." Look at the Giants' line and the Patriots' line: a lot of the best lines in football are made up of mid-to-late-round guys and maybe one high pick.

 

huh? i guess i was assuming that folks would understand that when draft day rolled around that the teams drafting actually had some players on their team and weren't building an entire starting offensive line through ONE draft. my mistake. i will try to make it clearer...

 

first of all, the reference "more likely than not" referred only to where >>high quality

 

second... you don't agree that if you want a 'projected' high quality RT, who you hope to start in the minimum amount of time, your best bet is to take one in the 2nd half of the 1st round down through the 2nd if the quality is there? the same holds true to my guards scenario and the position where you can get the best player possible through the draft and where they are actually drafted.

 

to me, it comes down to value by position as to where the top prospects by position are drafted in any given year and i don't believe i am far off in my estimation of where to get one. does that mean that only eventual quality players are drafted in these slots? no. some are drafted higher and some lower but when you draft in the 4th round on down you are 'generally' looking at a player with potential to be groomed into a quality ball player in time OR get lucky and find one that was overlooked for whatever reason.

 

and yes, there are exceptions to every rule and you can find guys who even went undrafted and have excellent or even HOF careers. jay hilgenburg is a perfect example of a walk-on-lineman who excelled at his position. but you certainly can't build a team around the assumption you will find one of these gems on draft day.

 

Emphasis mine. So you're saying that we have three holes on the o-line, not counting Kreutz or Williams? That means that we need an LT, LG, and RG. We have Pace and three other players on the roster with experience at LT, plus Omiyale/Beekman at LG and Garza/Buenning at RG.

 

Also, are you saying that Orlando Pace has "rarely" played left tackle in his career? If that's true, I'd like to see a guy who's played it often. It looks like Shaffer (who played both RT and LT in Cleveland) is going to be the swing backup...are you saying he's "rarely" played either tackle spot? He's played both extensively. The only guys who are moving are Omiyale and Williams, and both of them are moving from left tackle to positions generally considered less demanding.

 

what i was referring to and am saying is that our drafts have been so pathetic in regards to our offensive line that this season we started out with present and future needs at every single position with the possible exception of where c. williams is projected to play OR beekman if you believe he showed enough talent last season to be a good+ future prospect which i didn't (at least not at this point in his career).

 

that means starting an end-of-his-career center who's production is fading and an unproven 2nd year draft pick along with NO existing talent on our team to fill in any position. that equals 3 for sure holes on our offensive line at the very least. now let's look at what we filled these holes with...

 

stop gap - orlando pace - an outstanding pickup for a short term solution to keep cutler healthy until/if williams can play LT. i believe i stated he was penciled in at LT so i don't understand what you are talking about in regards to my previous post. i think you could also add that there is a limited amount of time pace can play and if we move williams over to LT we still have a gap at our RT position in the near future.

 

unknowns - the 3 FA's i referred to in my statement: "that leaves us with no proven quality linemen on this team if these free agents can't play positions they have rarely or not at all played in their careers." are shaffer, buenning and omiyale.

 

since BOTH tackle slots are filled, pace and williams, that leaves 2 GUARD spots to fill unless you are happy with beekman and garza which i am NOT.

 

shaffer: has NO experience as a guard and quite frankly was unhappy in cleveland when they moved him from LT to RT if what little i read is even reasonably correct. so other than not starting as a tackle just what is is job? backup swing tackle? i am not sure what he was told when we signed him here or what role he expected to play but do you believe he will be happy as a backup tackle? if not he switches to a position he never played before, guard. what kind of money is he getting for this from us? i believe he is still getting guaranteed money from cleveland but how much are we ponying up for a backup swing tackle with tons of experience who won't hopefully play or a switch to guard?

 

omiyale: hmmmm... started ONE game in 4 years as a tackle. can you say this isn't an unknown without experience at the guard position?

 

buenning: a 4 year vet with some game experience at guard THREE years ago although which side of the line i wonder. if after watching how pathetic our o-line was last season and he was sitting on the bench just how good is he or how has injury effected his performance? does this make for an unknown with little experience to you?

 

so let's flesh this out. we have 2 tackles who's only chance to start is at guard and a guard who hasn't played in 3 years with limited experience and garza and beekman pushing these guys for a spot in the mix. who could wonder about that?

 

look, maybe all these guys will have stellar years including beekman but to say we are set with a solid line at this point is just incorrect and it all boils down to poor drafting in previous years by our gm that we find ourselves in this position of trying to keep a franchise qb off the IR with virtual unknowns who have NEVER played together.

 

Last point. It sounds like you're assuming that bump and run is an inherently superior scheme for corners, and that teams only play zone or off-man because they don't have the personnel to play strict man bump-and-run. That's not even close to true: the way you play your corners depends very much on the rest of your defensive scheme, some schemes depend on zone coverage from corners, and some depend on man coverage. If it were really the case that not playing bump-and-run "kills [teams] in numerous critical ways" then wouldn't Philly's secondary be getting "killed"? And wouldn't the Raiders actually have good coverage, instead of everybody not named Asomugha getting picked apart? The Raiders use bump-and-run religiously, and they're a case study in its failings.

 

well, what i can tell you is that giving every WR a 5-10 yard cushion and an uncontested route into OPEN zones every play is NOT a superior scheme no matter WHAT kind of defense you are running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

do you really believe any professional defensive coach is going to give an opponents offense this kind of cushion every play if his players can play a receiver tight in his zone or jam a WR in the 5 yd zone to throw off the timing of a qb throwing these uncontested slants, curls etc. that have been eating up your defense game after game??? really, do you believe that?

 

and yes, this type of defense whether due to poor personnel or mindbogglingly poor coaching kills your team in numerous critical ways.

 

exactly how much time do you believe it takes for defensive linemen to physically get to a qb? if a qb can take a one or two steps back and throw to an open receiver on every play and gain 4-10 yds how have you given your line any kind of help to do the job they were intended to do? also by not being able to touch a receiver in his route you just made it harder for your corners and safeties to cover their man whether it's a short drop or a go route. one reason being because the receiver can dictate position. it makes the job your ends do harder containing the end if your backers have to play softer or drop back to try and cover open zones that your corners have cleared.

 

these are the plays designed to move the chains and keep your defense on the field longer than neccessary not to mention it will open up your running game when all the DB's are playing a basic prevent.