I like the trend

[Wesson44]

I read somewhere that Cutler is like 15-1 when his team (The Broncos) hold the other team to 21 points or less. Now if our defense contuniues like it has the last five yeares will have a great chance for many winning seasons. These are the scoring precentages over the last 5 years.

 

2004 Offense scoring per game 14.4, Defensive points allowed 20.6, record 5-11

 

2005 Offense scoring per game 16.2, Defensive points allowed 12.6, record 11-5 playoffs

 

2006 Offense scoring per game 26.6, Defensive points allowed 15.8, record 13-3 Superbowl

 

2007 Offense scoring per game 20.8, Defensive points allowed 21.7, record 7-9

 

2008 Offense scoring per game 23.4, Defensive points allowed 21.8, record 9-7

[Pixote]

I read somewhere that Cutler is like 15-1 when his team (The Broncos) hold the other team to 21 points or less. Now if our defense contuniues like it has the last five yeares will have a great chance for many winning seasons. These are the scoring precentages over the last 5 years.

 

2004 Offense scoring per game 14.4, Defensive points allowed 20.6, record 5-11

 

2005 Offense scoring per game 16.2, Defensive points allowed 12.6, record 11-5 playoffs

 

2006 Offense scoring per game 26.6, Defensive points allowed 15.8, record 13-3 Superbowl

 

2007 Offense scoring per game 20.8, Defensive points allowed 21.7, record 7-9

 

2008 Offense scoring per game 23.4, Defensive points allowed 21.8, record 9-7

 

I would like to believe we can return to a top 5 defense this year with the additions, both offensively & defensively, we have made to this team and the change of coaches/attitude we are seeing take place.

 

If that happens, with Cutler running the show, look out, record every game possible, this could be a year to remember. (with many more to come).

[AZ54]

For us to be a top 5 defense then some young Dline player is going to have to step up in a big way. I don't have much confidence we'll see that and I'm not sure Harris will ever be 100% again since he couldn't even get healthy enough to work out in minicamp. Overall we'll have a strong front seven with the addition of Pisa but I think our D will be top 10 not top 5.

[BearSox]

I read somewhere that Cutler is like 15-1 when his team (The Broncos) hold the other team to 21 points or less. Now if our defense contuniues like it has the last five yeares will have a great chance for many winning seasons. These are the scoring precentages over the last 5 years.

 

Well, the only flaw in your thinking is that in Denver, Cutler also had Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal for one year, a great OL, and an offensive guru in Shanny as his HC.

[balta1701-A]

For us to be a top 5 defense then some young Dline player is going to have to step up in a big way. I don't have much confidence we'll see that and I'm not sure Harris will ever be 100% again since he couldn't even get healthy enough to work out in minicamp. Overall we'll have a strong front seven with the addition of Pisa but I think our D will be top 10 not top 5.

If you consider Tommie Harris to be a young D-Line player, then I agree. I think getting Harris back to something closer to his pre-injury form would be the biggest shift for that Bears D.

[ChileBear]

If you consider Tommie Harris to be a young D-Line player, then I agree. I think getting Harris back to something closer to his pre-injury form would be the biggest shift for that Bears D.

IF Harris can stay healthy, then I'm looking for Marinelli to push him back to Pro Bowl level. And yes, it all starts with the DL.

[Guest TerraTor]

Well, the only flaw in your thinking is that in Denver, Cutler also had Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal for one year, a great OL, and an offensive guru in Shanny as his HC.

 

Cutler made Eddie Royal. Gettin tired of hearing how good he is....

[adam]

Well, the only flaw in your thinking is that in Denver, Cutler also had Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal for one year, a great OL, and an offensive guru in Shanny as his HC.

Yeah, the Marshall/Royal argument is a little over done IMO. Marshall didn't do squat until Cutler started as QB and Royal was the 5th Receiver taken in the draft that had 0 go in the 1st Round. You can't give Cutler all the credit, but you can't discount his piece of Marshall's and Royal's success. Lets see how they do with Orton at the helm.

 

Wesson, what is Cutler's record when the defense allows more than 21 pts?

[SoxFan1]

Well, the only flaw in your thinking is that in Denver, Cutler also had Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal for one year, a great OL, and an offensive guru in Shanny as his HC.

We scored 23.4 PPG last yr with no receivers and Kyle Orton.

[Wesson44]

Yeah, the Marshall/Royal argument is a little over done IMO. Marshall didn't do squat until Cutler started as QB and Royal was the 5th Receiver taken in the draft that had 0 go in the 1st Round. You can't give Cutler all the credit, but you can't discount his piece of Marshall's and Royal's success. Lets see how they do with Orton at the helm.

 

Wesson, what is Cutler's record when the defense allows more than 21 pts?

We wont even go there ok lol

[AZ54]

If you consider Tommie Harris to be a young D-Line player, then I agree. I think getting Harris back to something closer to his pre-injury form would be the biggest shift for that Bears D.

 

I do consider Harris a young Dline player but I don't consider him as ever getting back to the player we once knew. Like I said, I don't see a guy who can't practice much ever making a huge impact on a season. Doesn't mean he won't have impact plays for us, he will but we need another body to step up and pick the slack when he's off the field.

[bowlingtwig]

I do consider Harris a young Dline player but I don't consider him as ever getting back to the player we once knew. Like I said, I don't see a guy who can't practice much ever making a huge impact on a season. Doesn't mean he won't have impact plays for us, he will but we need another body to step up and pick the slack when he's off the field.

How about another player that I think could finally excel. I know this is going WAY out there and if he excels I can guarantee we will win a lot. How about Dusty Dvoracek.

[nfoligno]

I think Harris can again be the dominating DT we have seen in the past. To me, a huge key is the DT that lines up next to him.

 

Injuries were a big factor, but IMHO, so was the DT he lined up next to. Dusty was flat out awful. Warren Sapp pointed out, using film, just how bad Dusty was. When the guy next to you is so bad that he is getting blocking into you, your job is simply that much more difficult.

 

IMHO, Harris began to look better when we started Adams in place of Dusty, and I think most all would agree Adams is not much more than average. I think the key is, even more than just saying health, the play of our 2nd DT, which most likely will be a rotation. But if we can get solid play out of that 2nd DT, I think we can again see great play from Harris.

 

To me, an even greater key is the play of the DEs. Wale and Anderson are two players I am really hoping Marinelli can do something with. I truly believe the recent coaching killed Anderson, and very much limited Wale. I think both can be very solid pass rushers, but Marinelli will have to work some magic.

 

I talked about it for some time, but I really felt that Haley/Babich were key to the weak play of our DL. Now that Haley is gone, and Babich is essentially demoted, my hope is our DL can again play very aggressive.

 

For us to be a top 5 defense then some young Dline player is going to have to step up in a big way. I don't have much confidence we'll see that and I'm not sure Harris will ever be 100% again since he couldn't even get healthy enough to work out in minicamp. Overall we'll have a strong front seven with the addition of Pisa but I think our D will be top 10 not top 5.

[Wesson44]

I think Harris can again be the dominating DT we have seen in the past. To me, a huge key is the DT that lines up next to him.

 

Injuries were a big factor, but IMHO, so was the DT he lined up next to. Dusty was flat out awful. Warren Sapp pointed out, using film, just how bad Dusty was. When the guy next to you is so bad that he is getting blocking into you, your job is simply that much more difficult.

 

IMHO, Harris began to look better when we started Adams in place of Dusty, and I think most all would agree Adams is not much more than average. I think the key is, even more than just saying health, the play of our 2nd DT, which most likely will be a rotation. But if we can get solid play out of that 2nd DT, I think we can again see great play from Harris.

 

To me, an even greater key is the play of the DEs. Wale and Anderson are two players I am really hoping Marinelli can do something with. I truly believe the recent coaching killed Anderson, and very much limited Wale. I think both can be very solid pass rushers, but Marinelli will have to work some magic.

 

I talked about it for some time, but I really felt that Haley/Babich were key to the weak play of our DL. Now that Haley is gone, and Babich is essentially demoted, my hope is our DL can again play very aggressive.

IMHO i think the problem with our DE'S is that they are limited in their rushing styles. Take the ends from the Colts Mathis & Freeney...they go in, they rush outside, they bull rush and they spin in & out. I see the same thing game in and game out from our DE'S they rush to the outside and get blocked out of the play past the QB. Sometimes they are allowed to rush inside and do a stunt here and there but not often. If we were to mix it up a bit stunts and so on they will be more effective getting to the QB because the line will not know who is going where and will miss a block. Look how the Giants & Steelers and the Ravens work this to prefection.

[nfoligno]

You are really preaching to the choir here. This has been a pet peeve of mine for years. I have always felt (under Lovie) that our DL was limited, but never more so than after Brick Haley and Babich took over the DL and DC duties.

 

I understand the idea. The defense, more than any one position, centers around the DT position. The DEs rush to the outside (a) preventing the QB from stepping back in the pocket and ( trying to push him forward to create space. Meanwhile, you have DT(s) that penetrate from the inside, and thus that QB who can not step back gets leveled. This is also why we mostly blitz from the inside. Further, your DEs can rack up sacks because when the DTs penetrate, and the QB does move back, he moved right into the DEs line and goes down.

 

That is the theory, but I think we have seen that it just doesn't workout so perfectly.

 

I agree that we do "sometimes" allow our DEs to go inside or stunt. But what I would like to add is, when it happens, it often seems to have good results.

 

I go back to, and use as an example, Anderson. I remember Anderson's rookie year. Richard Dent, who I believe was still the assistant DL coach, or maybe simply commenting on the team, talked about Anderson. Dent said Anderson was using a host of moves you rarely see from a rookie. He talked about how rookies usually come in relying on athleticism or power, but rarely have more than a move or two. He said Anderson came in w/ a host of moves that made him look like a veteran. He was very Freeney like, at least in regard to the moves. Like Freeney, he had the speed/burst to beat an OT to the outside, but was so much more than just an edge rusher. Due to his speed, OTs would often cheat to the outside. Anderson would use this threat to get an OT off-balance, then use a swim or even power move to spin inside. OTs might have 100 lbs on him, but because he had them off-balance, weight wasn't a factor.

 

But after the SB season, we made coaching changes. Anderson was made a starter, and that sophmore year, all he did was edge rush. He no longer attacked the inside, and no longer showed that host of moves seen his rookie season. As OTs knew what he was doing every snap, he was simply much easier to block. OTs would simply push him further outside, and out of the play.

 

This is where I hope Marinelli comes in and make an impact. TB does a lot w/ their DL. TB DL used a host of moves to get to the passer, and that is what I hope we see this year. Everyone has always talked about personnel on the DL, but I have for a long time believe a huge problem was our scheme holding our players back. I have heard both Dent and Warren Sapp (two DL that had a tad bit of success) talk about how easy it is for OL to block DL when they know what the DL is going to do. My hope is Marinelli opens things up on the DL, and allows more freedom, which I believe will in turn create a greater pass rush.

 

IMHO i think the problem with our DE'S is that they are limited in their rushing styles. Take the ends from the Colts Mathis & Freeney...they go in, they rush outside, they bull rush and they spin in & out. I see the same thing game in and game out from our DE'S they rush to the outside and get blocked out of the play past the QB. Sometimes they are allowed to rush inside and do a stunt here and there but not often. If we were to mix it up a bit stunts and so on they will be more effective getting to the QB because the line will not know who is going where and will miss a block. Look how the Giants & Steelers and the Ravens work this to prefection.

[madlithuanian]

...I too am part of that choir.

 

I really hope Rod can right the wrongs...

 

You are really preaching to the choir here. This has been a pet peeve of mine for years. I have always felt (under Lovie) that our DL was limited, but never more so than after Brick Haley and Babich took over the DL and DC duties.

 

I understand the idea. The defense, more than any one position, centers around the DT position. The DEs rush to the outside (a) preventing the QB from stepping back in the pocket and ( trying to push him forward to create space. Meanwhile, you have DT(s) that penetrate from the inside, and thus that QB who can not step back gets leveled. This is also why we mostly blitz from the inside. Further, your DEs can rack up sacks because when the DTs penetrate, and the QB does move back, he moved right into the DEs line and goes down.

 

That is the theory, but I think we have seen that it just doesn't workout so perfectly.

 

I agree that we do "sometimes" allow our DEs to go inside or stunt. But what I would like to add is, when it happens, it often seems to have good results.

 

I go back to, and use as an example, Anderson. I remember Anderson's rookie year. Richard Dent, who I believe was still the assistant DL coach, or maybe simply commenting on the team, talked about Anderson. Dent said Anderson was using a host of moves you rarely see from a rookie. He talked about how rookies usually come in relying on athleticism or power, but rarely have more than a move or two. He said Anderson came in w/ a host of moves that made him look like a veteran. He was very Freeney like, at least in regard to the moves. Like Freeney, he had the speed/burst to beat an OT to the outside, but was so much more than just an edge rusher. Due to his speed, OTs would often cheat to the outside. Anderson would use this threat to get an OT off-balance, then use a swim or even power move to spin inside. OTs might have 100 lbs on him, but because he had them off-balance, weight wasn't a factor.

 

But after the SB season, we made coaching changes. Anderson was made a starter, and that sophmore year, all he did was edge rush. He no longer attacked the inside, and no longer showed that host of moves seen his rookie season. As OTs knew what he was doing every snap, he was simply much easier to block. OTs would simply push him further outside, and out of the play.

 

This is where I hope Marinelli comes in and make an impact. TB does a lot w/ their DL. TB DL used a host of moves to get to the passer, and that is what I hope we see this year. Everyone has always talked about personnel on the DL, but I have for a long time believe a huge problem was our scheme holding our players back. I have heard both Dent and Warren Sapp (two DL that had a tad bit of success) talk about how easy it is for OL to block DL when they know what the DL is going to do. My hope is Marinelli opens things up on the DL, and allows more freedom, which I believe will in turn create a greater pass rush.

[defiantgiant]

Yeah, the Tampa 2 really does make use of a lot of stunts and inside rushes, at least when it's being implemented correctly. The Bears used them in '05 and '06, and Rod Marinelli used them in Tampa. Line stunts, misdirection, and other ways of confusing blockers are important to the scheme, since you're almost always going to be rushing 4 against 5 blockers (6 if there's a TE or FB staying in to block.)

 

Basically, the scheme is predicated on pass pressure, but doesn't give you the luxury of sending extra rushers. I really hope Marinelli can get our front 4 playing like they need to - I think this defense can be top 10 again if we just get some pressure up front.