Dungy: Cutler trade a risk!!!!

[bowlingtwig]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4230086

[madlithuanian]

It's a risk crossing the street...

 

Dungy is just struggling for something to talk about other than reinstating Vick..

[DaBearSox]

Screw him

[nfoligno]

Lets see. He runs out a slew of mediocre QBs in TB, and wins how many SBs? He takes over a team in Indy which has a franchise QB, and gets a SB ring.

 

Yea, it is a risk, but one most would agree necessary.

 

I swear if Manning were not already in place, Dungy would still be trying to win w/ defense and mediocre QBs and be w/o a ring.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4230086

[daa84]

Lets see. He runs out a slew of mediocre QBs in TB, and wins how many SBs? He takes over a team in Indy which has a franchise QB, and gets a SB ring.

 

Yea, it is a risk, but one most would agree necessary.

 

I swear if Manning were not already in place, Dungy would still be trying to win w/ defense and mediocre QBs and be w/o a ring.

outside of the one superbowl...lets also not forget how underperforming that team was in the playoffs for years....

[bowlingtwig]

outside of the one superbowl...lets also not forget how underperforming that team was in the playoffs for years....

He was on NFL Live last night they 2 of them were debating the move. Dungy said it was a risk and the other(name escapes me) said that he agrees that it may have been a risk due to how much we gave up but deemed it a necessary move because of how long we have been fighting for just a mediocre QB for SO long.

[madlithuanian]

nfo,

 

You are 100% spot on! I think we'd have been down that same path (and basically were...) if we didn't get Cutler.

 

Lets see. He runs out a slew of mediocre QBs in TB, and wins how many SBs? He takes over a team in Indy which has a franchise QB, and gets a SB ring.

 

Yea, it is a risk, but one most would agree necessary.

 

I swear if Manning were not already in place, Dungy would still be trying to win w/ defense and mediocre QBs and be w/o a ring.

[defiantgiant]

Well, he does acknowledge that Cutler's a great passer. I just disagree with him when he implies that being a great quarterback is more about leadership than, y'know, throwing the football. You could be the best leader in the world, but if you're a lousy passer, you're not a good quarterback.

 

Dungy says his problems with Cutler come down to maturity, leadership, and ability to "do things under pressure." As evidence for the first two, he's basically pointing to how Cutler conducted himself in his dispute with the coaching staff in Denver. I really don't think maturity or attitude toward coaches has a thing to do with level of play on the field. Look at Brett Favre: even in his prime years in the mid-nineties, Brett Favre was arguably immature and clashed with his coaches. He was notoriously hard to coach, hated practicing, didn't run the plays that his coaches called, etc. None of that mattered, because he won tons of games for the Packers. I don't think Cutler's problems with McDaniels have a thing to do with whether he can win games for us.

 

As for how Cutler performs under pressure, that depends on what kind of pressure Dungy's talking about. If he's talking about pass pressure, I don't think that holds any water. Orton and Cutler were sacked the same number of times (27) in 2008 and 2007, respectively. If sacks are an adequate measure of pass pressure, then I think it's safe to say the Bears upgraded - here are the two stat lines:

 

Orton (2008) - 27 sacks, completed 272/465 (58.5%) for 2972 yds (6.4 YPA) 18 TDs, 12 Interceptions

Cutler (2007) - 27 sacks, completed 297/467 (63.6%) for 3497 yds (7.5 YPA) 20 TDs, 14 Interceptions

 

Cutler completed significantly more of his passes for more yards and more scores under pressure comparable to what Orton was facing. It makes sense: Cutler's much more mobile than Orton, and significantly better at throwing accurately on the run.

 

Cutler definitely makes poor decisions sometimes, but they're vintage Favre bad decisions, not Rex Grossman bad decisions. What I mean is this: when Cutler attempts a throw that he shouldn't, it's generally because he's taking a risk trying to make a big play. Sometimes those risks don't work out for him, but more often they do. When Grossman made bad decisions, it was because he got rattled under pressure and did the wrong thing. I don't think that's the problem with Cutler. He seems to perform fine under pressure, he's just the kind of player who will take a shot and try to make a big play. I'm perfectly OK with that.

[Guest TerraTor]

I guess giving a #1 overall QB (stafford will be terrible) 41M isnt a risk... or trading up all ur picks to take fuckin Mark Sanchez isnt a risk....

[GrizzlyBear]

Who cares what dungy says, I dont, I like everything JA has done this year so far.

[AZ54]

Cutler has been in the league a mere 3 years and people point out his faults and forget that he's still got the arrow pointing up. They talk about him as if he should compare to Peyton Manning or other QBs with 10 years experience. I don't expect he'll be great for us right away but he will change our offense and open up the entire field immediately. Toward the end of the season we should have a good idea what he can do in this offense.

[madlithuanian]

Read some of the responses on the PFT board...some are really funny! (...and some inappropriate, but it is what it is.)

 

 

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/04/...urity/#comments

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4230086

[BearFan PHX]

He was on NFL Live last night they 2 of them were debating the move. Dungy said it was a risk and the other(name escapes me) said that he agrees that it may have been a risk due to how much we gave up but deemed it a necessary move because of how long we have been fighting for just a mediocre QB for SO long.

 

Actually, Dungy said it in a radio interview, and he chose his words carefully, also saying that the Bears have done their homework, and feel good about Cutler.

 

FWIW, that's Herm Edwards and Chris Carter on NFL Live. Herm DOES remind me of Dungy a little, but it isn't Dungy. Herm and CC were discussing the radio quote of Dungy's from the prior day.

[jason]

Lets see. He runs out a slew of mediocre QBs in TB, and wins how many SBs? He takes over a team in Indy which has a franchise QB, and gets a SB ring.

 

Yea, it is a risk, but one most would agree necessary.

 

I swear if Manning were not already in place, Dungy would still be trying to win w/ defense and mediocre QBs and be w/o a ring.

 

DING DING DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!!

 

Without Manning, Dungy would have been dumped as a HC, and he'd still be fighting his way as a DC. Yes, fighting. Because most of his success was on the shoulders of a supremely talented team.

 

On top of that this guy is about the only one on Earth who is backing Vick?

 

Now he's ripping the Cutler pick-up? An acquisition that gives the franchise QB they haven't had since maybe McMahon?

 

Sorry, but Dungy can eat a bowl of dicks as far as I'm concerned.

[BigDaddy]

Cutler has been in the league a mere 3 years and people point out his faults and forget that he's still got the arrow pointing up. They talk about him as if he should compare to Peyton Manning or other QBs with 10 years experience. I don't expect he'll be great for us right away but he will change our offense and open up the entire field immediately. Toward the end of the season we should have a good idea what he can do in this offense.

 

This guy has nothing at all to apologize for and I'll take it a step further and say noone had anything bad to say about him until we traded for him. Of course noone will say shit about that new HC McDaniels who screwed this up to begin with by inquiring about Cassell and then reiterating to Cutler that he was HC and would do whatever he sees fit to win, including trading Cutler. Now, while that may well be within his power to do, why has''t anyone really come out and said "What the phuck is this guy doing talking about a 1 yr wonder when you have a pro bowl QB with Cutler's credentials and abilities? I said on another board that if I were Cutler and had that conversation with McDaniels, my impression would be this guy has an ego larger than life and for a 32 yr old first time HC, he's just made a mess of things. I'd want out too. Hey, I was one of the guys who questioned Cutler wanting out and didn't want us bringing in Cutler because of the price tag but in the end, the reality is, what have we really lost given our last 8-10 1st rd picks?

 

Tony Dungy is a fine human being and has done some very good things on AND OFF the football field but his priorities are a bit phucked up. I know he wants things to work out for Michael Vick and I am sure I don't know about many of the people he has helped in his lifetime but I find myself asking if Vick were white, would he be as exhuberant about it? Would he even bother? One other thing that bothers me is he said in a interview with Waddle and Silvy the other day and it referenced on another board that between Buress and Vick, he felt Buress was worse because of the fact that he's had a couple run ins with the law. You mean tio tell me that because Buress carried a gun, and has had some run ins with the law that THAT is worse than the years Vick spent torturing and killing dogs on a property he had designed specifically to carry that out? Great call Tony. Now, go phuck yourself.

[madlithuanian]

Don't hold back!

 

(I completely agree!)

[Pixote]

When I listened to the Radio Clips of the interview of Dungy I was not offended at all and took his comments totally different than some have on the forum. He expressed some concerns about his maturity, yes, but did say that he was sure that Lovie & JA checked out this aspect and was confident he was indeed a "Mature" leader for the team. He also was asked if Cutler could make this team a top 10 team and a playoff team, his response was that if all worked out with him as the Bears management expects, the Bears would not only a top 10 team, but a top 5 team and a Super Bowl contender. How can anyone take an exception to this, unless you are a fan of DET, MIN, or GBP, LOL.

[nfoligno]

I think what riles up some fans, including myself, is a perceived double talk.

 

Dungy is parading around talking about Michael Vick and how he should be given another chance to play in the NFL. Well, what position does Vick Play? QB. You don't hear Dungy questioning Vicks maturity, and perception (IMHO) is quite the opposite. On the other hand, he questions Cutler's maturity.

 

Maybe it is just me, but if Dungy was not running around talking so positive about Michael Vick, it may not come off so questionable.

 

When I listened to the Radio Clips of the interview of Dungy I was not offended at all and took his comments totally different than some have on the forum. He expressed some concerns about his maturity, yes, but did say that he was sure that Lovie & JA checked out this aspect and was confident he was indeed a "Mature" leader for the team. He also was asked if Cutler could make this team a top 10 team and a playoff team, his response was that if all worked out with him as the Bears management expects, the Bears would not only a top 10 team, but a top 5 team and a Super Bowl contender. How can anyone take an exception to this, unless you are a fan of DET, MIN, or GBP, LOL.

[Mongo3451]

I think what riles up some fans, including myself, is a perceived double talk.

 

Dungy is parading around talking about Michael Vick and how he should be given another chance to play in the NFL. Well, what position does Vick Play? QB. You don't hear Dungy questioning Vicks maturity, and perception (IMHO) is quite the opposite. On the other hand, he questions Cutler's maturity.

 

Maybe it is just me, but if Dungy was not running around talking so positive about Michael Vick, it may not come off so questionable.

I read absolutely nothing into Dungy's comments. He was simply stating an opinion, based on the events leading to Cutlers trade. Cutler is young and brash and does probably need to mature. IMO - Cutler probably has matured through all he's been through this off season.

 

I also don't see double talk. Given that he was just saying Vick should have a chance to play. I'm sure it would be a whole lot different commentary if someone was talking about giving up 2 1st's and Orton for him.

 

I am glad Dungy made this light commentary, as I am sure it will help Cutler mature just a little more. Not only will he want to stick performance in McDaniels nose. Now, he will want to prove maturity to a more respectible source. All good for us as Bears fans!

[defiantgiant]

Dungy's comments on Vick are in a very different context. He said himself that he was primarily concerned with Mike Vick as a person, rather than as an athlete. I'm sure that if the Bears had traded for Vick, he'd be fielding some of the same concerns - they need to do their homework on whether he can be mature and lead a team, etc.

[nfoligno]

I don't know. Dungy seemed to be going around talking about how he believes Vick is a changed man and blah blah blah. I didn't hear him say something along the lines of, "I think Michael Vick has the 'right' to play in the NFL, but whether he is good enough, I don't know". I didn't hear him say anything like that. All I heard/read him talk about was how much he believes in Vick as a man.

 

I'm sorry. But Dungy is going around talking up this guy who bashed in the heads of dogs, and then questions the maturity of someone who "forced his way from a team".

 

Many have questioned Cutler's maturity. That was done before and after we traded for him. I have no problem w/ that. I just feel this is a bit hyprotical.

 

Dungy's comments on Vick are in a very different context. He said himself that he was primarily concerned with Mike Vick as a person, rather than as an athlete. I'm sure that if the Bears had traded for Vick, he'd be fielding some of the same concerns - they need to do their homework on whether he can be mature and lead a team, etc.

[defiantgiant]

I don't know. Dungy seemed to be going around talking about how he believes Vick is a changed man and blah blah blah. I didn't hear him say something along the lines of, "I think Michael Vick has the 'right' to play in the NFL, but whether he is good enough, I don't know". I didn't hear him say anything like that. All I heard/read him talk about was how much he believes in Vick as a man.

 

I'm sorry. But Dungy is going around talking up this guy who bashed in the heads of dogs, and then questions the maturity of someone who "forced his way from a team".

 

Many have questioned Cutler's maturity. That was done before and after we traded for him. I have no problem w/ that. I just feel this is a bit hyprotical.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think Cutler's maturity is a problem at all. If he can get Devin Hester to 1100 or 1200 yards and a handful of touchdowns, he can act however he feels like. I just think Dungy's probably looking at the two guys in different lights: Vick in terms of whether he's turned around as a person enough to play again in some capacity, and Cutler in terms of whether he's worth betting the farm on like the Bears did. Nobody's going to give up two firsts, a third, and their starting QB for Vick. If he gets to play somewhere, it'll be in a no-risk situation where his team can dump him in a hurry.

[nfoligno]

Maybe I am reading only partial quotes. I don't know. But what I read seems to far more stress the maturity, and doesn't seem to stress the price paid to trade for him.

 

"We'll see about his maturity level," Dungy said. "That's what I would question. And some of the things that happened leading to him leaving Denver ... that would concern me as a head coach. He can make all of the throws, but quarterbacking is much more than just making throws."

 

I guess it is in how you read it. I read the "risk" talked about in the sense that it is a risk to rely on a QB w/ maturity issues, rather than the more obvious risk of simply giving up a ton to get this player. To me, the stress of the comments are about his maturity and character, and above, he even talks about how a QB has to be more than an arm. Thus, to me, the risk discussed is about relying on a QB w/ maturity issues, rather than about what it cost to get that QB.

 

I agree he is likely looking at the two players in difference lights, but again, I just feel it is hypocritical.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think Cutler's maturity is a problem at all. If he can get Devin Hester to 1100 or 1200 yards and a handful of touchdowns, he can act however he feels like. I just think Dungy's probably looking at the two guys in different lights: Vick in terms of whether he's turned around as a person enough to play again in some capacity, and Cutler in terms of whether he's worth betting the farm on like the Bears did. Nobody's going to give up two firsts, a third, and their starting QB for Vick. If he gets to play somewhere, it'll be in a no-risk situation where his team can dump him in a hurry.

[jason]

I think what riles up some fans, including myself, is a perceived double talk.

 

Dungy is parading around talking about Michael Vick and how he should be given another chance to play in the NFL. Well, what position does Vick Play? QB. You don't hear Dungy questioning Vicks maturity, and perception (IMHO) is quite the opposite. On the other hand, he questions Cutler's maturity.

 

Maybe it is just me, but if Dungy was not running around talking so positive about Michael Vick, it may not come off so questionable.

 

That's precisely what riles me up. I see it as double-talk, and I believe it is contradictory and questionable in more than one way.

[ChileBear]

I don't know. Dungy seemed to be going around talking about how he believes Vick is a changed man and blah blah blah. I didn't hear him say something along the lines of, "I think Michael Vick has the 'right' to play in the NFL, but whether he is good enough, I don't know". I didn't hear him say anything like that. All I heard/read him talk about was how much he believes in Vick as a man.

 

I'm sorry. But Dungy is going around talking up this guy who bashed in the heads of dogs, and then questions the maturity of someone who "forced his way from a team".

 

Many have questioned Cutler's maturity. That was done before and after we traded for him. I have no problem w/ that. I just feel this is a bit hyprotical.

Yes, I too think it is very hypocritical.

And a risk? Look at it from our point of view--we need a solid QB, one that can get the ball into WR's hands. Cutler does that. So we get a Pro Bowler, and young that can be around for many years. I think it was worth the price.

Also, I can see Cutler's point of view. Denver fired Shanahan and brought in a new guy who immediately tries to trade for a QB. Man, if I were Cutler I'd be pissed too.

Bottom line, we now have a QB that can play.

Keep blah, blah, blahing Dungy.