Bears' Lovie Smith deserves more respect

[lemonej]

Lemon,

 

(a) Not sure it is fair to criticize Rivera for SD's defense. Rivera was the inside LB coach under Ted Cottrell after leaving Chicago. Last year, SD fired Cottrell, and Rivera was promoted, I believe around the bye week, which for them was midseason. The perception is that their defense was improved under Rivera. It wasn't great, but improved. So I am not sure it is fair to criticize Rivera for SD's defensive struggles when he was not in charge of the defense, and it did imporve once he took over.

 

( I don't recall Rivera ever being Lovie's choice. As I recall, after not being allowed to interview Marinelli, Lovie wanted Babich, but Lovie was not allowed him either. Can't recall whether it was Angelo, Phillips, or both, but Babich was considered too green, and the team wanted more of a name, which Rivera obviously was in Chicago. Rivera was never a Lovie choice, but at the time, Lovie didn't have the power to really fight for who/what he wanted.

Nfo that whole situation is sketchy for me especially when it comes to Rivera. I believe the fact that he did his volunteer coaching(unpaid) here made him a favorite of the family and we know in most cases the ownership can have some influence on some hirings. This might be what the issue is between Lovie and Rivera. I think I remember that Rivera was hired as an assistant by Angelo and then he got the DC job by default. Either way my comparison with him and Lovie versus Ditka/Ryan ended with me saying he hasn't had the same success since he left here and Lovie hasn't had the same success since he left the Bears. So saying there is a perception is like saying there is a rumor. The fact is that team was 8-8 and under acheived. So maybe it was Cottrells defense but Rivera was on the SD staff for 2 years and he should have been able to know how to better utilize the personnel. I believe that Rivera who has been given HC interviews may be starting to cool off in the eyes of the rest of the league. If that wasn't the case why would all these young guys be getting opportunities to be head coaches before him when he was a Super Bowl DC? This debate about how good coaches are based on players they coached on another team is getting old and watching Rex Ryan shoot his mouth off when he is not going to have Ray Lewis to translate what he is scheming to the players is going to be a big difference. I just look at guys likie Marvin Lewis and Romeo Crennell who made their reputations in this manner as good examples as to why its hard to project how well someone can do until they get the ideal personnel for their particular scheme. What is Rivera's philosphy? He played in the 46 and a 4-3 under Ditka/Ryan and a zone blitzing scheme under Tobin. He coached in a exotic 4-3 blitzing scheme under Jimmy Johnson in Philadelphia and here coached in the Tampa 2 4-3 scheme. Now at SD that is a 3-4 scheme which he never played in and now he is coaching. What is something you can connect Chico with in terms of scheme? I think Les Frasier is a better DC than Rivera right now but I never here anyone mentioning him and I wanted Lovie to hire him.

[defiantgiant]

Nfo that whole situation is sketchy for me especially when it comes to Rivera. I believe the fact that he did his volunteer coaching(unpaid) here made him a favorite of the family and we know in most cases the ownership can have some influence on some hirings. This might be what the issue is between Lovie and Rivera. I think I remember that Rivera was hired as an assistant by Angelo and then he got the DC job by default. Either way my comparison with him and Lovie versus Ditka/Ryan ended with me saying he hasn't had the same success since he left here and Lovie hasn't had the same success since he left the Bears. So saying there is a perception is like saying there is a rumor. The fact is that team was 8-8 and under acheived. So maybe it was Cottrells defense but Rivera was on the SD staff for 2 years and he should have been able to know how to better utilize the personnel. I believe that Rivera who has been given HC interviews may be starting to cool off in the eyes of the rest of the league. If that wasn't the case why would all these young guys be getting opportunities to be head coaches before him when he was a Super Bowl DC? This debate about how good coaches are based on players they coached on another team is getting old and watching Rex Ryan shoot his mouth off when he is not going to have Ray Lewis to translate what he is scheming to the players is going to be a big difference. I just look at guys likie Marvin Lewis and Romeo Crennell who made their reputations in this manner as good examples as to why its hard to project how well someone can do until they get the ideal personnel for their particular scheme. What is Rivera's philosphy? He played in the 46 and a 4-3 under Ditka/Ryan and a zone blitzing scheme under Tobin. He coached in a exotic 4-3 blitzing scheme under Jimmy Johnson in Philadelphia and here coached in the Tampa 2 4-3 scheme. Now at SD that is a 3-4 scheme which he never played in and now he is coaching. What is something you can connect Chico with in terms of scheme? I think Les Frasier is a better DC than Rivera right now but I never here anyone mentioning him and I wanted Lovie to hire him.

 

Have to disagree with this one part. I think the Jets are likely to have an excellent defense this year. They've got a sick group of 3-4 LBs with the addition of Bart Scott, and Lito Sheppard-Darrelle Revis is a great corner tandem. Their d-line might not have one individual player on Haloti Ngata's level, but they're a good unit. Kris Jenkins is no slouch and Shaun Ellis is a beast. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Jets had a top-10 defense under Rex Ryan. Probably not top-5, but they should be a lock for the top 10.

[lemonej]

Have to disagree with this one part. I think the Jets are likely to have an excellent defense this year. They've got a sick group of 3-4 LBs with the addition of Bart Scott, and Lito Sheppard-Darrelle Revis is a great corner tandem. Their d-line might not have one individual player on Haloti Ngata's level, but they're a good unit. Kris Jenkins is no slouch and Shaun Ellis is a beast. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Jets had a top-10 defense under Rex Ryan. Probably not top-5, but they should be a lock for the top 10.

DFG I'm basing my point on the fact that Ryan is shooting his mouth off similar to his dad during press conferences. And since we are talking about what they have on defense lets talk about there offense. Kellen Clemons or Mark Sanchez at QB 2 disgruntled RBs and who at WR. Unless that D is going to lead the league in defensive scoring they may have some problems.

[nfoligno]

Wait a minute. Rivera was the inside LBs coach, and you believe he is responsible or takes blame for the defenses struggles? Heck, I would argue that SD firing the DC and promoting Rivera speaks loudly to the alternative.

 

As for what "his" scheme is, we don't really know. He has never been in a position to run a scheme of his own. In Phily, he was not the DC and only helped run the scheme already in place. In Chicago, he was the DC, but was forced to run Lovie's cover two scheme. In SD, he was not in charge, again, and had to help w/ Cottrell's scheme. He finally took over the D in SD, but it was late in the season, and he could only change it up so much.

 

I think this year we will see more of Rivera and his scheme. From what I have read, while SD will continue to be a 3-4 defense, they are also expected to run more base 4-3. That is one thing I actually like about Rivera. He doesn't just have experience in one scheme, but has experience in many, and is in a better situation to adapt a scheme based on the talent available, rather than have to force players into a scheme they may not fit as he is limited in scheme knowledge.

 

I think this is a big year for Rivera, as he will once again be in charge. If SD's D is solid or better (a good chance w/ Merriman returning) I think Rivera will against get a lot of HC consideration.

 

Nfo that whole situation is sketchy for me especially when it comes to Rivera. I believe the fact that he did his volunteer coaching(unpaid) here made him a favorite of the family and we know in most cases the ownership can have some influence on some hirings. This might be what the issue is between Lovie and Rivera. I think I remember that Rivera was hired as an assistant by Angelo and then he got the DC job by default. Either way my comparison with him and Lovie versus Ditka/Ryan ended with me saying he hasn't had the same success since he left here and Lovie hasn't had the same success since he left the Bears. So saying there is a perception is like saying there is a rumor. The fact is that team was 8-8 and under acheived. So maybe it was Cottrells defense but Rivera was on the SD staff for 2 years and he should have been able to know how to better utilize the personnel. I believe that Rivera who has been given HC interviews may be starting to cool off in the eyes of the rest of the league. If that wasn't the case why would all these young guys be getting opportunities to be head coaches before him when he was a Super Bowl DC? This debate about how good coaches are based on players they coached on another team is getting old and watching Rex Ryan shoot his mouth off when he is not going to have Ray Lewis to translate what he is scheming to the players is going to be a big difference. I just look at guys likie Marvin Lewis and Romeo Crennell who made their reputations in this manner as good examples as to why its hard to project how well someone can do until they get the ideal personnel for their particular scheme. What is Rivera's philosphy? He played in the 46 and a 4-3 under Ditka/Ryan and a zone blitzing scheme under Tobin. He coached in a exotic 4-3 blitzing scheme under Jimmy Johnson in Philadelphia and here coached in the Tampa 2 4-3 scheme. Now at SD that is a 3-4 scheme which he never played in and now he is coaching. What is something you can connect Chico with in terms of scheme? I think Les Frasier is a better DC than Rivera right now but I never here anyone mentioning him and I wanted Lovie to hire him.

[madlithuanian]

Here's a wild eyed speculation....

 

If Rivera get the SD to one of the top, it could be surmised that he is indeed a very good DC. Also, someone proven to be able to adapt to many situations... That may make him a stronger candidate for being a HC.

 

 

Wait a minute. Rivera was the inside LBs coach, and you believe he is responsible or takes blame for the defenses struggles? Heck, I would argue that SD firing the DC and promoting Rivera speaks loudly to the alternative.

 

As for what "his" scheme is, we don't really know. He has never been in a position to run a scheme of his own. In Phily, he was not the DC and only helped run the scheme already in place. In Chicago, he was the DC, but was forced to run Lovie's cover two scheme. In SD, he was not in charge, again, and had to help w/ Cottrell's scheme. He finally took over the D in SD, but it was late in the season, and he could only change it up so much.

 

I think this year we will see more of Rivera and his scheme. From what I have read, while SD will continue to be a 3-4 defense, they are also expected to run more base 4-3. That is one thing I actually like about Rivera. He doesn't just have experience in one scheme, but has experience in many, and is in a better situation to adapt a scheme based on the talent available, rather than have to force players into a scheme they may not fit as he is limited in scheme knowledge.

 

I think this is a big year for Rivera, as he will once again be in charge. If SD's D is solid or better (a good chance w/ Merriman returning) I think Rivera will against get a lot of HC consideration.