Double Moves

[AZ54]

Thayer listed the things he'll be watching for during training camp. One thing caught my eye, a very welcome sight indeed is that our Dline is learning to use counter moves on their pass rush. We've all been asking for this for years and perhaps it has finally arrived. If true, just the fact that we mix up the pass rush angles and moves will make our Dline more effective.

 

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http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2009/07/1_...tom_thayer.html

There will be a good deal of focus on the secondary and rightfully so. Cornerback Charles Tillman will be an onlooker in camp while he recovers from back surgery. Danieal Manning was just switched back to free safety. These are legitimate storylines, but the key to the defense (and the secondary) improving is the pass rush. I asked Thayer if, in the absence of a real live pass rush, can he get a feel for how the defensive linemen are doing in camp?

 

"Yeah. You can,'' he said. "There is a whole different tempo to their hand fighting. Not only the initial burst off the line of scrimmage and the position and how you're going to fight your hands through, but there is an equal counter move that comes right back and I watch these guys. They are just repititiously going through the exact same thing. The one thing about offensive and defensive line play, if you're not positively reinforced on your fundamentals on an every practice basis, you're going to really slip at these. What [Rod] Marinelli is doing is giving these guys the ability to move to counter move. That's where these guys' athleticism will come into play, I think. You're not just going to come to a stalemate, there is going to be a counter move from the defensive linemen to help them advance upfield.''

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[jason]

It's absolutely baffling, infurating, and down-right criminal that anyone coaching these guys NOT to do counter moves has any sort of NFL job to begin with. That's basic, pee-wee football stuff, folks.

 

Once again this illustrates that often time people get promoted far above their actual knowledge and/or ability, and the coaches/front office guys are not infallible bastions of football genius.

 

If stunts, twists, and counter-moves are integrated into how this team rushes the passer, you can guaran-damn-tee that the defense will be better.

[Mongo3451]

It's absolutely baffling, infurating, and down-right criminal that anyone coaching these guys NOT to do counter moves has any sort of NFL job to begin with. That's basic, pee-wee football stuff, folks.

 

Once again this illustrates that often time people get promoted far above their actual knowledge and/or ability, and the coaches/front office guys are not infallible bastions of football genius.

 

If stunts, twists, and counter-moves are integrated into how this team rushes the passer, you can guaran-damn-tee that the defense will be better.

I have a hard time believing these moves weren't taught before now. Hopefully, Marinelli will teach it in a way that it becomes 2nd nature.

[BearFan2000]

It's absolutely baffling, infurating, and down-right criminal that anyone coaching these guys NOT to do counter moves has any sort of NFL job to begin with. That's basic, pee-wee football stuff, folks.

 

Once again this illustrates that often time people get promoted far above their actual knowledge and/or ability, and the coaches/front office guys are not infallible bastions of football genius.

 

If stunts, twists, and counter-moves are integrated into how this team rushes the passer, you can guaran-damn-tee that the defense will be better.

 

Bringing in a guy like Merinelli will prove to be one of the best offseason moves we've made. If to this point our D hasn't even been coached to use these things then that just proves how inadequate our defensive line coaching has been. Counter moves are one of the basic tools of a D-Linemen. If your pass rush is predictable it requires little effort to stop it. Mixing it up is what puts the advantage back on you by having your opponent think and react rather than expect and protect. Rod seems like just the guy to introduce some creativity into our D-Line. It would be nice to see our line getting effective penetration and being a disruption in the backfield throughout the game. I'm sure our DBs would be eternally grateful and it would help their game.

[killakrzydav]

About damned time.

[AZ54]

Watching the Dline drills in this video it's clearly different and more intense. He really makes these guys run and change direction in these drills, even Anthony Adams is moving well. Best line "a little more violence". Yeah we need that in our pass rush. Best move: Mark Anderson with a very quick spin move.

 

http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/mul...clip=Y&rn=6

 

 

[madlithuanian]

 

 

It is bewildering that that technique has not been taught be former coaces inhis regime. It should be as obvious as breathing.

 

It's absolutely baffling, infurating, and down-right criminal that anyone coaching these guys NOT to do counter moves has any sort of NFL job to begin with. That's basic, pee-wee football stuff, folks.

 

Once again this illustrates that often time people get promoted far above their actual knowledge and/or ability, and the coaches/front office guys are not infallible bastions of football genius.

 

If stunts, twists, and counter-moves are integrated into how this team rushes the passer, you can guaran-damn-tee that the defense will be better.

 

[nfoligno]

A few years back, I was listening to the score, and they were interviewing Idonije. Prior to the interview, Hamptom was shredding the bears for their lack of "mixing it up" on the DL. He talked about how he never saw us stunt or use misdirection. He talked about how we lined up and did the same thing everytime. He went on to talk about how easy we made it for the OL. Talked about how, even an average OT, if he knows where the DE is going to rush, how much easier that OT can get into position. When you know the DE is going to rush to the outside, you can cheat a bit, and get a quicker jump as you are not worried about the inisde move.

 

Anyway, Hamptom spent considerable time talking about this in depth, and then they had Idonije on the air. They asked him point blank if the bears use stunts on the DL, or even practice stunts. Idonije's quick answer was no, but then it was like he realized what he just did, and started stammering and tried to further explain, saying their DL was so talented and so good they didn't need to stunt.

 

Hampton basically let it go until Idonije was off the air, and then shredded the hell out of our staff. He said the most talented DL in the game stunted and used misdirection. He said if the most talented DL just played straight up, they would not be very special, and average OLs would be capable of blocking them.

 

The combo of listening to Hampton discuss this, with Idonije's admission, was just incredible.

 

I have a hard time believing these moves weren't taught before now. Hopefully, Marinelli will teach it in a way that it becomes 2nd nature.

 

[madlithuanian]

I remember that well! Steam just shot our of my ears again reliving that!

 

A few years back, I was listening to the score, and they were interviewing Idonije. Prior to the interview, Hamptom was shredding the bears for their lack of "mixing it up" on the DL. He talked about how he never saw us stunt or use misdirection. He talked about how we lined up and did the same thing everytime. He went on to talk about how easy we made it for the OL. Talked about how, even an average OT, if he knows where the DE is going to rush, how much easier that OT can get into position. When you know the DE is going to rush to the outside, you can cheat a bit, and get a quicker jump as you are not worried about the inisde move.

 

Anyway, Hamptom spent considerable time talking about this in depth, and then they had Idonije on the air. They asked him point blank if the bears use stunts on the DL, or even practice stunts. Idonije's quick answer was no, but then it was like he realized what he just did, and started stammering and tried to further explain, saying their DL was so talented and so good they didn't need to stunt.

 

Hampton basically let it go until Idonije was off the air, and then shredded the hell out of our staff. He said the most talented DL in the game stunted and used misdirection. He said if the most talented DL just played straight up, they would not be very special, and average OLs would be capable of blocking them.

 

The combo of listening to Hampton discuss this, with Idonije's admission, was just incredible.

 

[nfoligno]

The majority of the time when you hear players, coaches or whoever being interviewed, it is fairly worthless. "one game at a time", "get off the bus running". Same ol same ol comments they are tought to say early on. But every once in a while, you catch a slip up. Maybe it is a situation like discussed w/ Idonije, where is really comfortable, and just says something before he realizes what he just did. Or maybe a player who is upset about something gets a microphone stuck in his face, and allows his feelings to slip out.

 

All I know is, over the years, I have heard players "slip" and provide what I believe is evidence the players have not been on board w/ the defensive staff and their scheme/playcalling.

 

I remember that well! Steam just shot our of my ears again reliving that!

 

[jason]

Thanks for pulling that one up, nfo. Revisionist historians would believe themselves if not for historical facts deliverd from witnesses.

[nfoligno]

Trust me. That is an interview I will not soon forget. That interview, along w/ the Sapp interview last year, made huge and lasting impressions on me.

 

Thanks for pulling that one up, nfo. Revisionist historians would believe themselves if not for historical facts deliverd from witnesses.