Cutler vs. Orton: It's no contest

[CrackerDog]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1000179...39;s-no-contest

 

Ouch! Fox Sports HAMMERS Denver. Poor bastards.

[Pixote]

Loved the article, as I am sure any Bear fan would. Thanks for posting the link.

[BearFan2000]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/1000179...39;s-no-contest

 

Ouch! Fox Sports HAMMERS Denver. Poor bastards.

 

 

After the way they and their fans acted in that game I don't feel a bit sorry for them.

[AZ54]

His premise about the owner is wrong. There's no way McDaniels was hired without Bowlen knowing in advance he wanted to go after Cassel. So in Bowlen's mind Cutler was getting traded. When the Cassel deal fell through they wanted to fall back to Cutler at least for this season. McDaniels admitted as much when he said publicly that he told Cutler he couldn't assure him he would not get traded in the future, although he phrased that into a generic statement as if that applies to everyone. So to Cutler it was clear he wasn't his QB.

 

Cutler read between the lines and he knew the owner had to approve of the trade in advance and he knew he'd been lied to. Since it was clear neither owner nor head coach were committed to him he called their back-tracking bluff and basically said don't wait to trade me, get it done now. The owner approved going out and getting a serviceable QB to hold over the offense and as many draft picks as they could garner. Point is he approved of McDaniels searching for his own QB from the beginning.

 

McDaniels gets all the heat for this fiasco but reality is that Bowlen was in on it from the beginning and IMO it was the lack of commitment from the ownership that bothered Cutler moreso than the rookie head coach. Why Bowlen gets to sit on the sidelines in all this as people spread the blame among Culter and McDaniels is beyond me but IMO he's equally culpable, if not moreso because he made the decision to hire McDaniels knowing he'd be trading Cutler. It was his setup from the beginning.

 

 

[selection7]

It's moot. You don't ask a grown man not to do his job. I seriously doubt the owner ever told Cutler (still on his rookie contract) that he was without a doubt the future of the Broncos, much less that it would be worded that way in his contract. Furthermore, it makes perfect sense that Denver's new coach would be interested in Cassel considering where he came from. You don't want to be traded, get a no trade clause, otherwise be happy that your coach is committed to always improving the team. You don't worry about the things you can't control. And how could Cutler have known that the team he'd end up on after being traded would be any more comitted to him longterm considering he doesn't get to choose who he goes to and at the time he demanded a trade, he hadn't had a serious talk with another team? It wasn't about commitment, it was about Culter's ego, and a 32 year old coach new that it'd be the death of him if he started out looking like he couldn't control his own players. Troublemakers sense weakness. Having said that, the coach and owner have a responsibility to deal with immaturity. If they don't like it, switch careers where everybody isn't in their 20's and used to being put on a pedalstal.

 

Also, remember that the Broncos got what could amount to a Greg Olson, Chris Williams, & Marcus Harrison-like player, and Orton for giving up a malcontent Cutler with a big contract. And consider that had Orton not gotten hurt, he probably would have ended up with a higher QB rating than Cutler last year since his injured period almost surely cost him 6 points of QB rating. I'm glad we got Cutler of course, but that's not the point. It's just that it's quite possible that neither team will be a loser on this deal when it's all said and done, but that doesn't sell newspapers, and I find it irritating listening to people pass judgement on this guy (McDaniels) so recklessly. Though it's a good point that the owner and the coach should be looked at similarly, I still say it's moot because neither of them deserve outright bashing.

[adam]

Its a business. However, wouldn't anyone feel somewhat uncomfortable when the first thing the new boss does is try to get rid of you? How do you trust him after that? Then after that saga ends, he gives no assurance of long term predictability.

 

Yeah these guys make millions, but it sucks if you have to move or uproot a family every couple of years - and not knowing when that could happen puts undue stress on you. Football is a team sport more than any other, and trust and familiarity breed success. As a QB, trust is huge. You have to trust the O-Line to block for you, the receivers to be at the right spot at the right time, etc, etc.

 

AZ54 is on to something. There is no way Cutler is traded if the owner was not in on it from the start. He knew about McDaniels idea, and they felt so strongly about it, they got rid of Cutler anyway. Plan B.

[nfoligno]

I disagree w/ the statement that there was no way Bowlen didn't know McDaniels wanted to deal Cutler/Cassel prior to hiring him. He hired McDaniels back in January, and at that time, it still didn't seem clear whether Brady was going to be 100% or not, and thus what NE was planning to do w/ Cassel.

 

I agree 100% that plenty of blame can be placed on the owner. There is no way McDaniels would have even started trade talks w/o first talking to Bowlen, and thus Bowlen was 100% on board w/ the move. I simply disagree this was the plan when he hired McDaniels in the first place.

 

It really doesn't matter though. At the end of the day, blew it. After Elway, Denver spent plenty of years looking for their next franchise QB, and finally they found one. Then they look to trade him for a QB who looked good for one season, surrounded by elite talent. IMHO, even if they did pull off the trade, they would still not be better off w/ Cassel than w/ Cutler.

 

Imagine this. We are not a QB franchise, but many would say we are a RB franchise. Since Walter, we have no had a great franchise RB. Anderson was great, but not the tier I am talking about. Anway, lets say this year Forte puts up another huge season, but we don't end up w/ a great record, and fire Lovie. New coach comes in and decides Forte isn't his man, and wants to trade for some late round pick out of Denver who looked good for one year. How do you imagine that would go over w/ Bear fans?

 

His premise about the owner is wrong. There's no way McDaniels was hired without Bowlen knowing in advance he wanted to go after Cassel. So in Bowlen's mind Cutler was getting traded. When the Cassel deal fell through they wanted to fall back to Cutler at least for this season. McDaniels admitted as much when he said publicly that he told Cutler he couldn't assure him he would not get traded in the future, although he phrased that into a generic statement as if that applies to everyone. So to Cutler it was clear he wasn't his QB.

 

Cutler read between the lines and he knew the owner had to approve of the trade in advance and he knew he'd been lied to. Since it was clear neither owner nor head coach were committed to him he called their back-tracking bluff and basically said don't wait to trade me, get it done now. The owner approved going out and getting a serviceable QB to hold over the offense and as many draft picks as they could garner. Point is he approved of McDaniels searching for his own QB from the beginning.

 

McDaniels gets all the heat for this fiasco but reality is that Bowlen was in on it from the beginning and IMO it was the lack of commitment from the ownership that bothered Cutler moreso than the rookie head coach. Why Bowlen gets to sit on the sidelines in all this as people spread the blame among Culter and McDaniels is beyond me but IMO he's equally culpable, if not moreso because he made the decision to hire McDaniels knowing he'd be trading Cutler. It was his setup from the beginning.

 

[CrackerDog]

Imagine this. We are not a QB franchise, but many would say we are a RB franchise. Since Walter, we have no had a great franchise RB. Anderson was great, but not the tier I am talking about. Anway, lets say this year Forte puts up another huge season, but we don't end up w/ a great record, and fire Lovie. New coach comes in and decides Forte isn't his man, and wants to trade for some late round pick out of Denver who looked good for one year. How do you imagine that would go over w/ Bear fans?

 

Very well said. And in the modern NFL, QB is a much more coveted position than RB.

 

[selection7]

However, wouldn't anyone feel somewhat uncomfortable when the first thing the new boss does is try to get rid of you? How do you trust him after that?

I'm not saying I don't empathize. It's ok to feel somewhat uncomfortable, in fact these guys are paid to deal with much more than uncomfortable. The NFL isn't about comfort. Cutler had no reason not to "trust" that McDaniels woud do his job. You don't get to have that extreme level of security unless you ask for it ahead of time, and get it, either through your contract or through the word of the owner. Just like every guy on the team without a no-trade clause, being traded is a possibility. Don't like it, talk to your players union. I feel just a little bit sorry for 4th round draft picks that will ultimately spend their life in the middle class if they only get to play a few years but don't have fallback education. There's no reason to feel that way about rich, 1st round drafted QB's, save for the unfair media criticism that often comes their way.

 

Actually, I can even sympathize with the idea that this is Cutler's life and passion, and if he all of a sudden feels that he is in a really poor situation, then he should do something about it...talk to the management and give them the benefit of the doubt. We know he eventually did, and maybe things were said that we don't know, but to base a trade demand on not having a right in the middle of your rookie contract promise made that he'll never be let go...when your alternative is to get traded to a team you'll also have no guarantees with... is beyond ridiculous. He signed a contract. No one forced him to. At the time he had a huge grin on his face thinking about all the guaranteed money I'm sure.

[selection7]

Also, "trying to get rid of you" isn't really the best wording. I'm sure he would have loved to have had them both, but it's not realistic. And that's why I pointed out that Cassel and McDaniels both came from New England, to show that it was about Cassel, not McDaniel's distaste for Cutler. If it had been Shanahan desperately trying to trade him for a couple of draft picks, I'd be insulted, as it was howerver, it kind of makes sense. I'm sure Cutler fully realized that but didn't care.

[CrackerDog]

Actually, I can even sympathize with the idea that this is Cutler's life and passion, and if he all of a sudden feels that he is in a really poor situation, then he should do something about it...talk to the management and give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

And they lied to him, if you believe his side of the story. And now the owner is, according to what I heard, recanting the part about him not returning phone calls. So, they lied about that too.

 

I can't blame the guy. He's the QB, not some third string safety. He's supposed to be the face of your franchise and the leader on offense. He's proven his abilities. To have them subvert him rather than support him and then try to backpedal after things went south with Cassel... They didn't earn the right to the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

[adam]

The fact that Denver management executed a trade so quickly spoke volumes. You don't trade a franchise QB in the first place.

 

All I can say is I am glad they did.

 

 

[nfoligno]

You don't trade a franchise QB in the first place.

 

Exactly. Lets think about it this way. Which is more expendible? A franchise QB or a HC? Think about it for a moment. A franchise QB can lead a team for a decade. How many coaches last a decade w/ the same team?

 

Denver was trying so hard to find a franchise QB after losing Elway. Finally they found one. Then this 33 year old new HC decides to play some power games, and they are now in a situation of having to look again for that QB.

 

Sorry, but while I don't want to minimize the value of a head coach, the reality is they are far more expendible.

 

Honestly though, as much as I place blame on McDaniels, Bowlen gets the majority. No way McD comes in and tried to trade for a new franchise QB w/o the consent of Bowlen.

[adam]

You don't trade a franchise QB in the first place.

 

Exactly. Lets think about it this way. Which is more expendible? A franchise QB or a HC? Think about it for a moment. A franchise QB can lead a team for a decade. How many coaches last a decade w/ the same team?

 

Denver was trying so hard to find a franchise QB after losing Elway. Finally they found one. Then this 33 year old new HC decides to play some power games, and they are now in a situation of having to look again for that QB.

 

Sorry, but while I don't want to minimize the value of a head coach, the reality is they are far more expendible.

 

Honestly though, as much as I place blame on McDaniels, Bowlen gets the majority. No way McD comes in and tried to trade for a new franchise QB w/o the consent of Bowlen.

I agree 110%.

 

I am sure McDaniels wanted his own people, and he has already made a huge impact on the current roster (a bunch of former Patriots). However, you don't alienate the single most important player on the team/franchise, then trade him away anyway.

 

The funny thing about the whole situation is McDaniels got what he wanted in trading Cutler. He just didn't get back exactly what he wanted.

[AZ54]

I disagree w/ the statement that there was no way Bowlen didn't know McDaniels wanted to deal Cutler/Cassel prior to hiring him. He hired McDaniels back in January, and at that time, it still didn't seem clear whether Brady was going to be 100% or not, and thus what NE was planning to do w/ Cassel.

 

I agree 100% that plenty of blame can be placed on the owner. There is no way McDaniels would have even started trade talks w/o first talking to Bowlen, and thus Bowlen was 100% on board w/ the move. I simply disagree this was the plan when he hired McDaniels in the first place.

 

It really doesn't matter though. At the end of the day, blew it. After Elway, Denver spent plenty of years looking for their next franchise QB, and finally they found one. Then they look to trade him for a QB who looked good for one season, surrounded by elite talent. IMHO, even if they did pull off the trade, they would still not be better off w/ Cassel than w/ Cutler.

 

Imagine this. We are not a QB franchise, but many would say we are a RB franchise. Since Walter, we have no had a great franchise RB. Anderson was great, but not the tier I am talking about. Anway, lets say this year Forte puts up another huge season, but we don't end up w/ a great record, and fire Lovie. New coach comes in and decides Forte isn't his man, and wants to trade for some late round pick out of Denver who looked good for one year. How do you imagine that would go over w/ Bear fans?

 

We're going to agree to disagree here. My years of experience (lol) have shown me that these types of major organizational changes don't happen in a vacuum. Job interviews for head coaches last for hours and include at least two or three separate interview sessions. IMO there is no way Bowlen doesn't ask McDaniels what he thinks about the current players on the team and in particular how Cutler fits into his offensive scheme. I also believe the subject of his success in New England with Cassel was a part of the discussion. It might be one of the reasons he got the job. IMO all of these questions would be likely during an interview: "How did you develop Cassel to have such a successful season after sitting on the bench for years?" "Do you think Cassel can be a franchise QB?" "What do you think are New England's plans for Cassel this offseason?" "Would you be interested?"

 

Part 2 of this equation is that Cutler had a conversation with Bowlen after Shanahan was fired. I can't imagine that being about anything other that the future direction of the team and likely included where he (Cutler) fit in with the long term plan. That's a typical question whenever a new manager is brought into a company, everybody wants to know where they fit in, or if they do. Even though McDaniels hadn't been interviewed or hired yet it's totally logical for Cutler to have asked Bowlen where he felt he fit in.

 

I'll admit your scenario is a possibility I just view it as remotely likely. Flip it around and approach it from your angle and say McDaniels suprised Bowlen after being hired by stating he wanted to pursue the trade for Cassel. That would mean McDaniels said in the interview that he liked Cutler and could run his offense effectively with him. For McDaniels to come back just a couple months later and change his mind and ask the owner for permission to trade his franchise QB would take some balls. He'd be going to his new boss and telling him he either lied to him or didn't know what he was doing when he said in the interview that he liked Cutler. Keep in mind that decision would be made without even working with Culter on the field much less in the film room. That would be a major violation of trust and confidence if it hadn't been discussed before. Bowlen would realize immediately that if the deal fell through and became public knowledge that he risked alienating Cutler. I don't believe in coddling players, or any employee but you don't alienate a key performer and make them feel like they don't have a future with your organization.

 

Like you said, head coaches come and go but franchise QBs are really hard to find. I believe Bowlen knows that and that's why I feel this was all part of the conversation in the interview. I just can't see Bowlen agreeing to the trade after having an agrement with his new coach they'd go forward with Cutler.

 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

We're going to agree to disagree here. My years of experience (lol) have shown me that these types of major organizational changes don't happen in a vacuum. Job interviews for head coaches last for hours and include at least two or three separate interview sessions. IMO there is no way Bowlen doesn't ask McDaniels what he thinks about the current players on the team and in particular how Cutler fits into his offensive scheme. I also believe the subject of his success in New England with Cassel was a part of the discussion. It might be one of the reasons he got the job. IMO all of these questions would be likely during an interview: "How did you develop Cassel to have such a successful season after sitting on the bench for years?" "Do you think Cassel can be a franchise QB?" "What do you think are New England's plans for Cassel this offseason?" "Would you be interested?"

 

Part 2 of this equation is that Cutler had a conversation with Bowlen after Shanahan was fired. I can't imagine that being about anything other that the future direction of the team and likely included where he (Cutler) fit in with the long term plan. That's a typical question whenever a new manager is brought into a company, everybody wants to know where they fit in, or if they do. Even though McDaniels hadn't been interviewed or hired yet it's totally logical for Cutler to have asked Bowlen where he felt he fit in.

 

I'll admit your scenario is a possibility I just view it as remotely likely. Flip it around and approach it from your angle and say McDaniels suprised Bowlen after being hired by stating he wanted to pursue the trade for Cassel. That would mean McDaniels said in the interview that he liked Cutler and could run his offense effectively with him. For McDaniels to come back just a couple months later and change his mind and ask the owner for permission to trade his franchise QB would take some balls. He'd be going to his new boss and telling him he either lied to him or didn't know what he was doing when he said in the interview that he liked Cutler. Keep in mind that decision would be made without even working with Culter on the field much less in the film room. That would be a major violation of trust and confidence if it hadn't been discussed before. Bowlen would realize immediately that if the deal fell through and became public knowledge that he risked alienating Cutler. I don't believe in coddling players, or any employee but you don't alienate a key performer and make them feel like they don't have a future with your organization.

 

Like you said, head coaches come and go but franchise QBs are really hard to find. I believe Bowlen knows that and that's why I feel this was all part of the conversation in the interview. I just can't see Bowlen agreeing to the trade after having an agrement with his new coach they'd go forward with Cutler.

Agreed and nicely stated. Bowlen and McDaniels are the bad guys here. Anyway, who's their GM? How many coaches have we gone through since Luckman????

 

Cutler did what I probably would have done. Incredulously, I would have asked my agent to find a way to get the F*&^% out of there. Marshall has seen the light in a different way has been implementing his own scheme.