Is the NFL too pussified?

[CrackerDog]

Obviously QB's are way too protected by the rules and, IMO, rules can't possibly protect the QB's. All the rules in the world wouldn't have saved Brady last season. When a lineman accidently hits a QB with his pinkie it shouldn't cost the D 15 yards. COME ON! And this whole "Landing on the QB with all your weight" deal, ridiculous. That's exactly what you should do to a QB when you get there! I'm not saying hit him late, play within the rules. But the rules shouldn't make it nearly impossible to get a sack without incurring a penalty.

 

I don't believe "helmet to helmet" ought to be illegal. Maybe they should make better helmets but if two players collide and it's fairly obvious that the helmets touching was impossible to avoid in the circumstances, it shouldn't be a penalty. If someone is out there using their helmet as a weapon, it's clear and there should be a penalty.

 

Too many borderline "horse collar" penalties are called. The back of your jersey ISN'T your facemask! Stop treating them the same way! The rule is supposed to allow for defenders to let the collar go part way through a tackle.

 

Mark my words, the way things are going we're going to have arena league type rules about how many players you can have in the box and probowl style rules limiting blitzing if we aren't careful about how much we allow the league to change the rules. Yes, it sucks that players get injured in football. But everyone knows that when they get into it and it'll always be that way, no matter how many rules you change. I think the current game is already weak compared to the 80's when the Bears were great.

 

Football is violent. Deal with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[103 mph screwball]

I understand protecting the QB even more since the Bears HAVE a QB! I don't want to see cheap shots like the one the packers did on McMahon a long, long, time ago that I have still not forgotten. But that penalty in the preseason where Alex Brown fell on the QB after a sack (as one tends to do when knocking someone down) was ridiculous. So yea, it is getting too pussified if a legit sack is a penalty. You can't tell 300 pound, super fast, men to be violently aggressive but don't hit the QB too hard if he is stupid enough to stand in the pocket while you run full speed at him. They can't hit the head. They can't hit too low. Hell, just make the pass rush count to three before blitzing and have the QB wear a red shirt with a matching pink skirt. Maybe the QB's can wear little silk flags to pull off like flag football. I don't want anybody to get hurt. If they can't take the hits, put more armor on them and play FOOTBALL.

[balta1701-A]

I found Peter King's MMQB today to have some insight on this.

"The truth of the matter is ... somebody is going to die here in the NFL. It's going to happen.''

 

-- Cincinnati's Carson Palmer, in my quarterback roundtable discussion this week in Sports Illustrated.

 

I found that comment chilling, to say the least. The other quarterbacks at the table -- Ben Roethlisberger, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers -- didn't dispute Palmer's words, and when he said them, the table got very quiet. They know. They feel the same thing happening in this game, too. And the fact that this statement has gotten zero traction in the last four days tells me something that all of us should find frightening: People read that line and just said, Yup, someone's going to die. We accept that. Now bring on football, dammit!

 

I gathered the five quarterbacks after their Friday round of golf at the celebrity golf tournament at South Lake Tahoe in mid-July. [if you think that was easy, for my next trick I'm going to pull a rabbit out of this MacBook Air.] It was a loose group. The light beer flowed, and it was the kind of scene you wish could have lasted five hours, not one. And so occasionally, a Roethlisberger would grab his phone and text someone, or chat with Rodgers about something that happened out on the course, but when Palmer said what he said, the table got quiet and everyone listened.

 

My question was about the endless defensive grousing concerning the overprotection of quarterbacks by the NFL, and Palmer went on, stridently, for a couple of minutes. "I don't mind [the league's protection of passers],'' he said. "In fact, I love it.'' In SI's preview issue, we edited some of his comments for space reasons, but here's much of what he said:

 

"Guys are getting so big, so fast, so explosive,'' Palmer said. "The game's so violent. Now that they're cutting out the wedge deal on kickoff returns, those guys [are] coming free, and at some point somebody is going to die in football. And I hope it's not anyone at this table, and I hope it doesn't happen, obviously. Everyone talks about the good old days, when guys were tough and quarterbacks got crushed all the time, but back in the day, there weren't defensive ends that were Mario Williams -- 6-7, 300 pounds, 10 percent body fat, running a 4.7 40.

 

"The game has changed, the game is getting bigger, faster, stronger, and there needs to be more protection. If I weren't a quarterback, I would be mad about the rules. If I were a safety or a defensive back, I would be mad about the new rule that you can't hit your helmet above their shoulder pads or whatever it is because it does take some of the ferociousness out of the game, but somebody is going to get seriously hurt, possibly die.

 

"I don't think you can change it. It's the nature of the world. The ways that guys train now, the way that guys eat and take vitamins and take supplements and all these things, guys are getting more muscle mass, more explosiveness, faster. Like I said, I hope to God it doesn't happen. Since I've been in the league, I feel like the D-Ends that come into the league, they're freaks, they're freaks of nature, and I hope it doesn't happen, but the rules need to be adjusted a little bit because [the violence] is getting a little out of control.''

 

 

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...l#ixzz0QS4VzNCA

[DrunkBomber]

Easy, yes.

[Connorbear]

Yes

 

Peace

[CrackerDog]

I found Peter King's MMQB today to have some insight on this.

 

So he asked five pussies thier opinion...

[ChileBear]

So he asked five pussies thier opinion...

Yes, he did. And if anyone's going to get killed, I'd bet it's anyone on the kickoff or punt teams. If they can't handle the violence of the game, get another job. Of course, they wouldn't make the big $.

[CrackerDog]

Yes, he did. And if anyone's going to get killed, I'd bet it's anyone on the kickoff or punt teams. If they can't handle the violence of the game, get another job. Of course, they wouldn't make the big $.

 

They also failed to mention that many QB's are a lot bigger now too! Can you imagine little Jimmy McMahon playing against these animals? Jeez, one hit and he'd be out for the season every year. So, there's a bit of a balance there in that, anyway.

 

To be fair, Palmer's comments in the article seemed pretty balanced as well. He just says it matter of factly and admits if he played the other positions he'd be pissed too. So, at least he knows he's getting unfair protection.

 

Hey, listen, Brent Fart lasted a LONG time in this league with the guys being fast and big. They better quit tampering with the game before they ruin it.

[GrizzlyBear]

What they failed to mention someone has died on the field during a football game. Chuck Hughes died while playing the Bears. I watched the game. 1971 Hughes came across on post during 2 mintue drill, He was drilled for a incompletion by Butkus. He got up after the hit and fell to the ground , Butkus alerted the Lions bench and they tried to recessitate him, He died on the field from a massive heart attack. Heart attack or Train wreck hit, it dont matter, Recievers going over the middle are more defenseless the a QB in my opinion and we wont institute those type rules on them,

 

 

[lemonej]

I wonder if Palmer would be making the same comments if he hadn't suffered a significant knee injury . This is another example of a professional sports athlete thinking of his profession as a life or death situation I also wonder if he stopped to consider that there are people in everyday professions that are exposed to near death situations daily like Armed Forces,Police, Fire Fighters etc.What a bunch of pampered babies.

[AZ54]

I hate all the pussified rules they have for QBs. Take the hit. I can agree on some protections but as it is now there's almost no way anyone can hit a QB without getting a penalty. If we're going to continue down this path it would be best for all if they just gave the QB flags and pink jerseys.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Yeah the NFL rules are getting a bit ridiculous now, especially with the quarterbacks. It's as if it's not even tackle football anymore. You get flagged for launching your head into somebody's body when it grazes their helmet, you get flagged for using your body weight to tackle a quarterback... What I'd like to know is how do you not use your body weight when going in for a tackle? I'd like to see someone do that.

[Mongo3451]

I hate to compare NFL to Nascar, but I'm going to cross that bridge. Nascar had the same dilemna; too fast, too reckless, too dangerous. So they came up with the "Car of Tomorrow". What if the NFL designed, implemented and mandated "The Uniform of Tomorrow". It's an odd thought that stuck with me throughout the day, after I read this post earlier. Sure, it would make guys a little slower. But, it would make everyone slower. Beef up the protective gear!

[Wesson44]

I hate to compare NFL to Nascar, but I'm going to cross that bridge. Nascar had the same dilemna; too fast, too reckless, too dangerous. So they came up with the "Car of Tomorrow". What if the NFL designed, implemented and mandated "The Uniform of Tomorrow". It's an odd thought that stuck with me throughout the day, after I read this post earlier. Sure, it would make guys a little slower. But, it would make everyone slower. Beef up the protective gear!

IMHO watching the games right now about 80% of the players are not wearing all the pads that are designed for the game as it is. If you look at the uniforms of the players you can see that they are missing knee pads, thigh pads, butt pads, and hip pads. Why.........to make them faster. QB, RB are not wearing the rib protectors. I don't see any neck collars, elbow pads etc. So what to they expect not to get hurt when you are wearing the pads? This is like driving without a seatbelt an getting into an accident and getting thrown from the car. This game has too many rules to protect guys from getting hurt, but I think that these same rules are the reason why so many are getting hurt. How can a guy going full speed to the QB stop on the dime and not use his body to tackle? Stupid

[Mongo3451]

IMHO watching the games right now about 80% of the players are not wearing all the pads that are designed for the game as it is. If you look at the uniforms of the players you can see that they are missing knee pads, thigh pads, butt pads, and hip pads. Why.........to make them faster. QB, RB are not wearing the rib protectors. I don't see any neck collars, elbow pads etc. So what to they expect not to get hurt when you are wearing the pads? This is like driving without a seatbelt an getting into an accident and getting thrown from the car. This game has too many rules to protect guys from getting hurt, but I think that these same rules are the reason why so many are getting hurt. How can a guy going full speed to the QB stop on the dime and not use his body to tackle? Stupid

Agreed on players wearing less and less. They are putting their body at risk for performance enhancement. IMO - that is why the NFL needs a standard to which the players have to meet, so they don't feel they have to strip their gear off to be more effective. Heck, even hockey players are getting into more protection these days.

[CrackerDog]

Agreed on players wearing less and less. They are putting their body at risk for performance enhancement. IMO - that is why the NFL needs a standard to which the players have to meet, so they don't feel they have to strip their gear off to be more effective. Heck, even hockey players are getting into more protection these days.

 

Damn, I'm shocked nobody took the "I'll bet you wouldn't call them pussies to their face" side of things here! It looks like we're pretty unanimous as a group that the game is suffering because of the rule changes.

 

I think football is reflecting the population of the US these days. We've all gotten a little soft.

[bowlingtwig]

Damn, I'm shocked nobody took the "I'll bet you wouldn't call them pussies to their face" side of things here! It looks like we're pretty unanimous as a group that the game is suffering because of the rule changes.

 

I think football is reflecting the population of the US these days. We've all gotten a little soft.

Was there a message there lol

[nfoligno]

I've read the comments, and maybe I missed it, but I think the key point missed is money.

 

The league, owners, etc make rules and talk about player safety, but come on. Its about the money. When you give a guy a $100m contract, and he goes down for the season, you don't simply suffer in the loss column. You suffer in the pocket book.

 

Few want to think of it this way, but the NFL is a business. In any business, you protect your assets. In the old days, as so many want to talk about, it was not nearly the business it is today. Heck, in the really old days, professional football was a part time job, as players had to work other jobs to make ends meat. Now?

 

Just think about it. Back in the day, our franchise began w/ a (I believe) $5,000 buy in. That is what it cost to begin a football team. Even as the decades passed, and it began to become more business like, it still didn't have the sort of money we see in it today w/ TV contracts and such. Owners want to protect their assets.

 

I agree in general players are too often protected, especially the QBs. My point here is not to defend the rules, but to point out the real reason for them. It isn't about protecting the safety and health of the players. That is the PR reason given, but the truth is owners want to limit the risk to the assets.

 

 

 

Obviously QB's are way too protected by the rules and, IMO, rules can't possibly protect the QB's. All the rules in the world wouldn't have saved Brady last season. When a lineman accidently hits a QB with his pinkie it shouldn't cost the D 15 yards. COME ON! And this whole "Landing on the QB with all your weight" deal, ridiculous. That's exactly what you should do to a QB when you get there! I'm not saying hit him late, play within the rules. But the rules shouldn't make it nearly impossible to get a sack without incurring a penalty.

 

I don't believe "helmet to helmet" ought to be illegal. Maybe they should make better helmets but if two players collide and it's fairly obvious that the helmets touching was impossible to avoid in the circumstances, it shouldn't be a penalty. If someone is out there using their helmet as a weapon, it's clear and there should be a penalty.

 

Too many borderline "horse collar" penalties are called. The back of your jersey ISN'T your facemask! Stop treating them the same way! The rule is supposed to allow for defenders to let the collar go part way through a tackle.

 

Mark my words, the way things are going we're going to have arena league type rules about how many players you can have in the box and probowl style rules limiting blitzing if we aren't careful about how much we allow the league to change the rules. Yes, it sucks that players get injured in football. But everyone knows that when they get into it and it'll always be that way, no matter how many rules you change. I think the current game is already weak compared to the 80's when the Bears were great.

 

Football is violent. Deal with it.

 

[CrackerDog]

I've read the comments, and maybe I missed it, but I think the key point missed is money.

 

And my point is you aren't really protecting some of these assets by making the rules stricter. Players will continue to break them simply because some can't be complied with within the context of an agressive sport. So a QB will still be drilled and the injury will happen but they'll get a flag. The downside is that little ticky tack plays will be treated the same as the really violent ones and we'll end up with a QB getting a pinkie on the helmet and flagged for 15 yards.

 

Money is irrelevant if you take a look at Brady's injury last year. Flukes will always happen and making them a tad less likely at the cost of destroying the game isn't worth it. Guys like me start watching something else on Sunday and the NFL will have bigger money problems to worry about.

[lemonej]

I can remember a time when two players got injured on the old Soldier"s Field turf. Neither one of these involved severe hits. One was a former packer WR named Phillip Epps who broke both his legs on the turf because his cleats got caught in the turf. The other was former Bear WR Wendell Davis who hurt his knee for basically the same reason, the turf.I am saying this to say that I agree with NFO and believe that a lot of these rules are based on finance and coaches personal feelings. Who changes these rules ? The Competition Committee. Who Makes up the committee? Coaches. Jeff Fisher is one of the main voices you hear now and it used to be Mike Holmgren who chaired this committee for quite a while so that may explain why so many rules protecting th QB were put in place because we all know what side of the ball Holmgren favored.

[nfoligno]

While I agree that, even w/ all new rules in place, injuries can still happen, I would argue the injuries would happen more often if the rules were not in place. It is a violent sport. No matter how many rules you put in place, that isn't going to change. At the same time, that doesn't mean you can reduce the number of injuries with such rules.

 

100% agree that the downside of so many of these rules is that you have ticky tack penalties that are called. I DE reaches out to get the QB, who then ducks, and the DE ends up touching the QBs helmet. By rule, if the QB's head is touched, it is a flag. The rule was put into place (and I realize you disagree w/ the rule itself) to proect the QB from DL double his size taking a roundhouse right at his head. But while that may have been the intention originally, it now is called a penalty if the DL grazes the QBs helmet w/ his pinky. I think you need to have more objectivity. I think more penalties should be like pass interference. Just because a DB touches a WR, that doesn't mean it is automatic PI. It is a judgement call for the ref. Refs need to have more freedome to make calls based on what they believe the intention was.

 

Another example is when a DE hits the QB after the ball is released. Sometimes you have the situation where, after the QB throws the ball, the DL not only still hits the QB, but drops his full weight on him. It was for just this sort of play the penalty was created. The flip side is the other day when Alex Brown was basically in mid air when the QB made the throw. Brown came down on the QB, but it was obvious to all he tried to shift his weight and avoid really hitting the QB. Regardless of intent, Brown was penalized as if he sould pull a Superman and change direction once in the air.

 

Disagree 100% that money is irrelevant. You use Brady's injury as an example, but how uncommon is that? How often do you see a QB of Brady's level go down, and then a no-name, no-experience QB like Cassel replace him so well? More often than not, when a franchise player of that level is lost to injury, the fortunes of the team tank w/ him. And I am not just talking about the potential couple game or even one season injury. What happens if Manning is nailed and his career is over.

 

I get what you are saying, and to a large extent agree. My point is simply that it is about money more so than caring about the players.

 

Final point. You talk about "destroying the game" and how fans will stop watching because the game is too "pussified" but the reality is, the game has never been more popular. Despite the rules, fans have flocked to the sport like never before.

 

And my point is you aren't really protecting some of these assets by making the rules stricter. Players will continue to break them simply because some can't be complied with within the context of an agressive sport. So a QB will still be drilled and the injury will happen but they'll get a flag. The downside is that little ticky tack plays will be treated the same as the really violent ones and we'll end up with a QB getting a pinkie on the helmet and flagged for 15 yards.

 

Money is irrelevant if you take a look at Brady's injury last year. Flukes will always happen and making them a tad less likely at the cost of destroying the game isn't worth it. Guys like me start watching something else on Sunday and the NFL will have bigger money problems to worry about.

 

[balta1701-A]

I can remember a time when two players got injured on the old Soldier"s Field turf. Neither one of these involved severe hits. One was a former packer WR named Phillip Epps who broke both his legs on the turf because his cleats got caught in the turf. The other was former Bear WR Wendell Davis who hurt his knee for basically the same reason, the turf.I am saying this to say that I agree with NFO and believe that a lot of these rules are based on finance and coaches personal feelings. Who changes these rules ? The Competition Committee. Who Makes up the committee? Coaches. Jeff Fisher is one of the main voices you hear now and it used to be Mike Holmgren who chaired this committee for quite a while so that may explain why so many rules protecting th QB were put in place because we all know what side of the ball Holmgren favored.

Wendell Davis shredded his knees on the turf at old Veteran's Stadium in Philadelphia, not Chicago.

[lemonej]

Wendell Davis shredded his knees on the turf at old Veteran's Stadium in Philadelphia, not Chicago.

I stand corrected. My point was about how there are a lot of players who have gotten hurt due to field conditions whether it happened at Soldier's Field or Veterans stadium players have gotten hurt on field surfaces. Grossman got hurt up in Minneapolis at the Roller Dome (Ditka) yet there has been no rules changes holding owners and teams accountable for those surfaces.Why is that? Its because a lot of stadiums are publicly funded and the NFL has no authority over stadiums that are not owned by its teams. So its next step is to over govern its players.

[AZ54]

We have the Brady rule this year and defensive players are not allowed to hit a QB from a prone position (or something like that) which basically if you are down on the ground you can't lunge forward to hit a QB in the legs. This is how Palmer and to a lesser extent Brady went down with knee injuries.

 

I'm sure I'm missing something but as I know it:

 

HEAD--off limits, can't use hands, arms, or even helmet to helmet contact. Defensive player must put head to the side when tackling.

LEGS -- off limits

BODY -- can only hit with body, no crown of the helmet can contact QB. Can't use your weight to land on the QB either.

 

The problem is when you have big guys like McNabb and Rothlisberger who are damned near impossible to tackle without a good solid hit.

[Controlled Chaos]

We have the Brady rule this year and defensive players are not allowed to hit a QB from a prone position (or something like that) which basically if you are down on the ground you can't lunge forward to hit a QB in the legs. This is how Palmer and to a lesser extent Brady went down with knee injuries.

 

I'm sure I'm missing something but as I know it:

 

HEAD--off limits, can't use hands, arms, or even helmet to helmet contact. Defensive player must put head to the side when tackling.

LEGS -- off limits

BODY -- can only hit with body, no crown of the helmet can contact QB. Can't use your weight to land on the QB either.

 

The problem is when you have big guys like McNabb and Rothlisberger who are damned near impossible to tackle without a good solid hit.

The problem is the refs callin all the ticky tacky shit. Common sense tells you why the rule is in place and it isn't for a hit like Alex Brown gave in the preseason. It's when a 300+ lineman bounces on top of the quarterback. There's no reason to do that other than to try and hurt the player. If you have him in your grasp...hopefully you stuck him when you grabbed him...if you didn't, you don't need to hold on to him as you're going down and bounce him. That isn't part of the tackle...it's part of hurting him or knocking him out of the game. People don't want their star players knocked out of the game.