Henry Melton gets redshirt

[bowlingtwig]

Just read in this in the Chicago Tribune today.

 

"Rookie defensive end Henry Melton, placed on injured reserve with an ankle injury, didn't look too banged up as he jogged to the practice field to watch his teammates."

[CrackerDog]

Just read in this in the Chicago Tribune today.

 

"Rookie defensive end Henry Melton, placed on injured reserve with an ankle injury, didn't look too banged up as he jogged to the practice field to watch his teammates."

 

I think many here think he's a bust. Maybe a year of practice will make him more ready for the NFL. Who knows. But this is clearly a Jerry Angelo tactic, using IR to hide a player for a season. Hell, I'm not sure it's actually worked to our advantage yet. Can you recall a player we've done this with that later actually panned out?

[lemonej]

I think many here think he's a bust. Maybe a year of practice will make him more ready for the NFL. Who knows. But this is clearly a Jerry Angelo tactic, using IR to hide a player for a season. Hell, I'm not sure it's actually worked to our advantage yet. Can you recall a player we've done this with that later actually panned out?

I saw Melton in person as a DL go back and field a kick during TC.I believe with coaching he could be a player.

 

As far as who we have succeeded with by doing this? I think the Bears put the players they really want to develop on the 53 man roster and just keep them inactive

[nfoligno]

What I think many forget is Melton was originally a RB for Texas. I think he played for two years as a RB before moving to defense. As a DE, he is very raw. he has athleticism, but as a DE, he is simply very raw and a long term project.

 

I saw Melton in person as a DL go back and field a kick during TC.I believe with coaching he could be a player.

 

As far as who we have succeeded with by doing this? I think the Bears put the players they really want to develop on the 53 man roster and just keep them inactive

 

[bowlingtwig]

What I think many forget is Melton was originally a RB for Texas. I think he played for two years as a RB before moving to defense. As a DE, he is very raw. he has athleticism, but as a DE, he is simply very raw and a long term project.

He did return a kick during a preseason game as well. Just bowled someone over.

 

[lemonej]

He did return a kick during a preseason game as well. Just bowled someone over.

What impressed me is that during TC when I saw him do it he caught the ball as if he had been fielding kicks all his life.

[bowlingtwig]

What impressed me is that during TC when I saw him do it he caught the ball as if he had been fielding kicks all his life.

I guess he was really bothering the coaches until they let him do it. lol I like a guy like him who is willing to do anything to help the team.

[defiantgiant]

What I think many forget is Melton was originally a RB for Texas. I think he played for two years as a RB before moving to defense. As a DE, he is very raw. he has athleticism, but as a DE, he is simply very raw and a long term project.

 

Yeah, he's only been playing the position for two years, and he only started for one. He's got a LOT of development to do. I think it makes a lot of sense to IR him for a year, since we basically just drafted him for his physical skills.

[bradjock]

But this is clearly a Jerry Angelo tactic, using IR to hide a player for a season. Hell, I'm not sure it's actually worked to our advantage yet. Can you recall a player we've done this with that later actually panned out?

 

How often do we think Angelo uses this tactic? I can think of 4 examples: Airese Currie, Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, and Dusty Dvoracek.

 

The first 3 we thought we'd hoped would develop. They sucked.

 

Dvoracek I think was a numbers issue. We had Tank, Tommie, Idonije, Ian Scott, and Alfonso Boone. I would say this worked with him. He looked like a beast at times. His only problem was staying healthy.

 

Are there other guys we've done this with that I'm forgetting?

 

It is weird how we moved Melton around. We played him at DT some.

 

Either way, it he's not good enough to make the team, why not hide him for a year?

 

 

 

[Wesson44]

How often do we think Angelo uses this tactic? I can think of 4 examples: Airese Currie, Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, and Dusty Dvoracek.

 

The first 3 we thought we'd hoped would develop. They sucked.

 

Dvoracek I think was a numbers issue. We had Tank, Tommie, Idonije, Ian Scott, and Alfonso Boone. I would say this worked with him. He looked like a beast at times. His only problem was staying healthy.

 

Are there other guys we've done this with that I'm forgetting?

 

It is weird how we moved Melton around. We played him at DT some.

 

Either way, it he's not good enough to make the team, why not hide him for a year?

Hiding him is the best way to keep him. I think that with all his skills he could be groomed to play fullback instead of DE. Look at Davis & Hester as they were moved from DB to WR same could happen here.

[ParkerBear7]

Hiding him is the best way to keep him. I think that with all his skills he could be groomed to play fullback instead of DE. Look at Davis & Hester as they were moved from DB to WR same could happen here.

 

 

I have no problem over exagerating an injury inorder to stash a very raw and athletic player for a year. Who knows what position he will end up at but what if he could be our version of Brandon Jacobs?

[Wesson44]

I have no problem over exagerating an injury inorder to stash a very raw and athletic player for a year. Who knows what position he will end up at but what if he could be our version of Brandon Jacobs?

That would be nice!!!!Jacobs=Melton Great!!! I can here the medai players now if Melton made it as such

 

Forte & Melton=

Thunder & Lighting

Smash and Dash 2

Hammer & Sickle

Bear & Cub LOL (we have that in chi town already)

any more that I'm forgetting?

[CrackerDog]

How often do we think Angelo uses this tactic? I can think of 4 examples: Airese Currie, Dan Bazuin, Michael Okwo, and Dusty Dvoracek.

 

I think this list is complete but now you add Melton and it's like we have someone we do this with almost every year. And Dvoracek was clearly a numbers game after his first season but I'd say it didn't work out either because he never actually saw the field for more than a cup of coffee. I love the guy and declared him, on this board, the next Mongo. But he wasn't ever able to overcome his health issues. Sad. Maybe someday.

[defiantgiant]

I have no problem over exagerating an injury inorder to stash a very raw and athletic player for a year. Who knows what position he will end up at but what if he could be our version of Brandon Jacobs?

 

I think if he had any value as a running back, Texas would have kept him there. He was a backup RB, and couldn't cut it there (behind some 7th-round pick named Chris Ogbonnaya) so they moved him to DE. His timed speed and quickness are good for a DE, but very sub-standard for a running back. You don't see a lot of successful halfbacks who run high-4.6 40s coming out of college. Jacobs ran in the low 4.5 range coming out of SIU, and he was still considered somewhat slow for an NFL back. I wouldn't assume that Melton can be anything like Jacobs simply because they're about the same size.

 

Also, people tend to underrate instincts and vision in a running back. Look at Matt Forte: he doesn't have any overwhelming physical gifts. He's decently fast, but not the fastest back. He's pretty strong, but he's not a bulldozer like Jacobs or LeRon McClain. He's not super-agile, even if he's elusive enough to make some people miss. The thing that makes him an elite halfback is his ability to see a tackler coming, run behind his blockers, hit the hole at the right time and at the right speed, fall forward for a first down, all the mental/instinctive stuff. If you don't have that, you're not going to be much of a running back in the NFL; look at Cedric Benson. Melton's got great size, but I don't see any evidence that he's got the speed or the instincts to be a halfback in the NFL.

[ParkerBear7]

I think if he had any value as a running back, Texas would have kept him there. He was a backup RB, and couldn't cut it there (behind some 7th-round pick named Chris Ogbonnaya) so they moved him to DE. His timed speed and quickness are good for a DE, but very sub-standard for a running back. You don't see a lot of successful halfbacks who run high-4.6 40s coming out of college. Jacobs ran in the low 4.5 range coming out of SIU, and he was still considered somewhat slow for an NFL back. I wouldn't assume that Melton can be anything like Jacobs simply because they're about the same size.

 

Also, people tend to underrate instincts and vision in a running back. Look at Matt Forte: he doesn't have any overwhelming physical gifts. He's decently fast, but not the fastest back. He's pretty strong, but he's not a bulldozer like Jacobs or LeRon McClain. He's not super-agile, even if he's elusive enough to make some people miss. The thing that makes him an elite halfback is his ability to see a tackler coming, run behind his blockers, hit the hole at the right time and at the right speed, fall forward for a first down, all the mental/instinctive stuff. If you don't have that, you're not going to be much of a running back in the NFL; look at Cedric Benson. Melton's got great size, but I don't see any evidence that he's got the speed or the instincts to be a halfback in the NFL.

 

Here is the deal; none of us including the bears know for sure what they have in this kid. He very well may never amount to anything in the NFL. I simply said I have no problem keeping a raw athletic athlete around to develop. I agree and do know what a great back is and although I love Forte I would not yet call him an elite back until he proves capable of duplicating his rookie season over the next few years. One of Forte best assets inlcude work ethic, heart and the ability toi catch the ball really well for a big back.

 

What is wrong with stating "what if Melton becomes our version of BJ" whom I view better served sharing the load with a faster back that compliments his power bruising style. I don't think it is that far fetched to believe that maybe Melton could be used as a short yardage back, heck the Fridge has proven a DL can do that. I would be willing to bet Melton would be a great improvement over Mckie in a short yardage situation. Tell me that Jamal Lewis is faster than HM right now and I would say that is hard to believe? Last point is why do you think BJ ended up at SIU in the first place? Could it be that he was never going to see the field as a starting rb behind Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown while at Auburn?

[lemonej]

Here is the deal; none of us including the bears know for sure what they have in this kid. He very well may never amount to anything in the NFL. I simply said I have no problem keeping a raw athletic athlete around to develop. I agree and do know what a great back is and although I love Forte I would not yet call him an elite back until he proves capable of duplicating his rookie season over the next few years. One of Forte best assets inlcude work ethic, heart and the ability toi catch the ball really well for a big back.

 

What is wrong with stating "what if Melton becomes our version of BJ" whom I view better served sharing the load with a faster back that compliments his power bruising style. I don't think it is that far fetched to believe that maybe Melton could be used as a short yardage back, heck the Fridge has proven a DL can do that. I would be willing to bet Melton would be a great improvement over Mckie in a short yardage situation. Tell me that Jamal Lewis is faster than HM right now and I would say that is hard to believe? Last point is why do you think BJ ended up at SIU in the first place? Could it be that he was never going to see the field as a starting rb behind Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown while at Auburn?

That is exactly why BJ went to SIU because he thought he wouldn't get enough of a chance to show what he could do.

 

The problem with comparing Melton to BJ is that he was switched to another position. BJ played RB through out. As for Melton's speed it is excellent for a FB.

[defiantgiant]

What is wrong with stating "what if Melton becomes our version of BJ" whom I view better served sharing the load with a faster back that compliments his power bruising style. I don't think it is that far fetched to believe that maybe Melton could be used as a short yardage back, heck the Fridge has proven a DL can do that. I would be willing to bet Melton would be a great improvement over Mckie in a short yardage situation.

You're talking about two different things here: are you saying that Melton could be a short-yardage back or saying that he could be Brandon Jacobs? I might grant you that we could use Melton as a short-yardage, jumbo-package kind of player, but Jacobs is a lot more than a designated short-yardage guy. Which one is it?

 

Tell me that Jamal Lewis is faster than HM right now and I would say that is hard to believe?

OK, but Jamal Lewis is really, really slow. Last season (and this preseason) he was slow to the point of being ineffective in anything but 3rd-and-short type situations. Saying "he's faster than the slowest starting RB in the NFL" isn't a great argument for a guy.

 

Last point is why do you think BJ ended up at SIU in the first place? Could it be that he was never going to see the field as a starting rb behind Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown while at Auburn?

Let's have some perspective here: Brandon Jacobs was a backup to TWO TOP 5 PICKS. Caddy went fifth overall, and Ronnie Brown went second overall. Meanwhile, Melton was a backup to a guy who was picked two hundred and eleventh overall. Caddy just got named the starter for the Bucs and Ronnie Brown's the starter for the Dolphins; Ogbonnaya couldn't even crack the Rams' third string. Do you really think those are comparable situations?

[GrizzlyBear]

Let's have some perspective here: Brandon Jacobs was a backup to TWO TOP 5 PICKS. Caddy went fifth overall, and Ronnie Brown went second overall. Meanwhile, Melton was a backup to a guy who was picked two hundred and eleventh overall. Caddy just got named the starter for the Bucs and Ronnie Brown's the starter for the Dolphins; Ogbonnaya couldn't even crack the Rams' third string. Do you really think those are comparable situations?

 

That depends if you really consider the coach from Texas a good judge of talent or he wants people that fit his system more then talent. So if you look at it that way, tell me who from texas, RB or QB has really hit off in the nfl? Benson?, Simms? Ogbonnaya ? To tell ya the truth I can remember anyone from Texas really lighting it up lately. So I say the coach is more system guy then talent evalulator.

[defiantgiant]

That depends if you really consider the coach from Texas a good judge of talent or he wants people that fit his system more then talent. So if you look at it that way, tell me who from texas, RB or QB has really hit off in the nfl? Benson?, Simms? Ogbonnaya ? To tell ya the truth I can remember anyone from Texas really lighting it up lately. So I say the coach is more system guy then talent evalulator.

 

Is this post based on any real information, or just a bunch of unfounded assumptions? It sounds like you're saying, "I can't think of a QB or RB from Texas who has made it big in the NFL, therefore Mack Brown must be a system coach who can't evaluate talent, therefore Henry Melton being stuck behind Chris Ogbonnaya is the same as Brandon Jacobs being stuck behind Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown."

 

Assuming for the sake of argument that the ability to evaluate talent and the ability to pick the right guys for a system really are mutually exclusive, what on earth would make you think that Mack Brown picks players for his system, rather than tailoring his system to his players' talents? Remember Vince Young? They basically had to throw out three-quarters of the playbook for him - I can't think of a more blatant example of a system being tailored to the player's talents, rather than the other way around.

 

Incidentally, Ricky Williams came from Texas. I think it's safe to say he "hit it off" in the NFL, to the tune of ~6400 rushing yards and 41 touchdowns in his first five seasons. If you're willing to look at talent evaluation for the whole team, rather than just two positions, then we're talking about Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, Derrick Johnson, Quentin Jammer, Bo Scaife, Roy Williams, and Nate Vasher, among others. I think Mack Brown is OK at evaluating talent. If Henry Melton were the next Brandon Jacobs, I doubt that he would have been moved to DE while the Longhorns were starting a scrub at halfback.

[GrizzlyBear]

Is this post based on any real information, or just a bunch of unfounded assumptions? It sounds like you're saying, "I can't think of a QB or RB from Texas who has made it big in the NFL, therefore Mack Brown must be a system coach who can't evaluate talent, therefore Henry Melton being stuck behind Chris Ogbonnaya is the same as Brandon Jacobs being stuck behind Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown."

 

Assuming for the sake of argument that the ability to evaluate talent and the ability to pick the right guys for a system really are mutually exclusive, what on earth would make you think that Mack Brown picks players for his system, rather than tailoring his system to his players' talents? Remember Vince Young? They basically had to throw out three-quarters of the playbook for him - I can't think of a more blatant example of a system being tailored to the player's talents, rather than the other way around.

 

Incidentally, Ricky Williams came from Texas. I think it's safe to say he "hit it off" in the NFL, to the tune of ~6400 rushing yards and 41 touchdowns in his first five seasons. If you're willing to look at talent evaluation for the whole team, rather than just two positions, then we're talking about Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, Derrick Johnson, Quentin Jammer, Bo Scaife, Roy Williams, and Nate Vasher, among others. I think Mack Brown is OK at evaluating talent. If Henry Melton were the next Brandon Jacobs, I doubt that he would have been moved to DE while the Longhorns were starting a scrub at halfback.

 

 

Sorry man none the names you provided including Williams has really done it up. with Bong exception for Williams. My point being Young is a bust. Could care less if they threw the playbook out , all that proves is guy couldnt learn it. His talent is fine but his head gets in the way. If you really look at the names you provided, it makes my point. Sorry but none those guys are on my fantasy team.

[defiantgiant]

Sorry man none the names you provided including Williams has really done it up. with Bong exception for Williams.

Casey Hampton and Shaun Rogers are two of the top 5 nose tackles in the NFL. Quentin Jammer is easily a top 10 cornerback. Ricky Williams had a thousand yards from scrimmage his rookie year, then broke 1,400 scrimmage yards every season for the next four seasons in a row. In 2002, he had over 2,200 yards from scrimmage and 17 touchdowns. What counts as "doing it up?"

 

My point being Young is a bust. Could care less if they threw the playbook out , all that proves is guy couldnt learn it. His talent is fine but his head gets in the way.

That's the exact opposite of the point you made originally. You were trying to say that Mack Brown picks players who can execute his system, rather than picking players for their talent. Now you're saying that Mack Brown started a talented quarterback who couldn't learn his system. Which one is it?

 

If you really look at the names you provided, it makes my point. Sorry but none those guys are on my fantasy team.

OK, I'm really looking at the names now. Here's what I see: 11 Pro Bowl selections. A ROTY selection as well as an OROTY. A couple of Super Bowl rings. Several guys who are widely considered to be in the top 10 at their positions.

 

More importantly, though, I see a HUGE amount of natural talent. The one thing that Mack Brown's busts (like Cedric Benson and Vince Young,) his productive players (like Williams, Hampton, Rogers, and Jammer,) and the guys somewhere in between (like Roy Williams and Nate Vasher) all have in common is that they're all tremendously physically talented. Some of them have had problems with effort, instincts, commitment, and consistency; some other ones haven't had those issues, and have been successful. But the one thing Mack Brown's guys all seem to share is a lot of physical talent. Shaun Rogers weighs 350 pounds and can still jump high enough to block field goals. In fact, last time I checked, he was leading the NFL in blocked kicks. That's raw athletic talent.

 

So I don't know how the names I mentioned "make your point" that Mack Brown can't evaluate talent. From what I can see, they lead to the exact opposite conclusion. So if Henry Melton were as talented a running back as you seem to think he is, I'm willing to bet that Texas wouldn't have changed his position. I'm not trying to rag on the guy, I like him as a developmental DE prospect, but I think it's a little silly to compare him to Brandon Jacobs. There's no reason (other than height and weight) to think that the two have anything in common, and there are some pretty good reasons to think that they don't.

[GrizzlyBear]

Casey Hampton and Shaun Rogers are two of the top 5 nose tackles in the NFL. Quentin Jammer is easily a top 10 cornerback. Ricky Williams had a thousand yards from scrimmage his rookie year, then broke 1,400 scrimmage yards every season for the next four seasons in a row. In 2002, he had over 2,200 yards from scrimmage and 17 touchdowns. What counts as "doing it up?"

 

 

That's the exact opposite of the point you made originally. You were trying to say that Mack Brown picks players who can execute his system, rather than picking players for their talent. Now you're saying that Mack Brown started a talented quarterback who couldn't learn his system. Which one is it?

 

 

OK, I'm really looking at the names now. Here's what I see: 11 Pro Bowl selections. A ROTY selection as well as an OROTY. A couple of Super Bowl rings. Several guys who are widely considered to be in the top 10 at their positions.

 

More importantly, though, I see a HUGE amount of natural talent. The one thing that Mack Brown's busts (like Cedric Benson and Vince Young,) his productive players (like Williams, Hampton, Rogers, and Jammer,) and the guys somewhere in between (like Roy Williams and Nate Vasher) all have in common is that they're all tremendously physically talented. Some of them have had problems with effort, instincts, commitment, and consistency; some other ones haven't had those issues, and have been successful. But the one thing Mack Brown's guys all seem to share is a lot of physical talent. Shaun Rogers weighs 350 pounds and can still jump high enough to block field goals. In fact, last time I checked, he was leading the NFL in blocked kicks. That's raw athletic talent.

 

So I don't know how the names I mentioned "make your point" that Mack Brown can't evaluate talent. From what I can see, they lead to the exact opposite conclusion. So if Henry Melton were as talented a running back as you seem to think he is, I'm willing to bet that Texas wouldn't have changed his position. I'm not trying to rag on the guy, I like him as a developmental DE prospect, but I think it's a little silly to compare him to Brandon Jacobs. There's no reason (other than height and weight) to think that the two have anything in common, and there are some pretty good reasons to think that they don't.

 

 

Well I can tell your a texas fan. Keep up the love fest with em. As for Young, if you look at the roster back then who else did they have? And look how it translated into the pros, Beat out my a 40 year old has been. Rogers was so good Detroit let him go. Hampton has 5.5 sacks his whole career and averages 35 tackles a year. Jammer had a career high of 88 tackles last year with 75 solo. That tells me his man was catching the ball and he had to take him down. Vasher same thing , why ge is not projected to start this year. I could go on and on, But Iam gonna drop it, all I was pointing out that maybe a reason why Melton was put at DE instead of remaining a RB. Lets call it to an end.