nfoligno Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 So often we ask whether the QB makes the WR or the other way around. W/o saying this is evidence for the question as a whole, how about this for our specific element of the question. Johnny Knox, a 5th round pick rookie from a small school has 8 catches for 152 yards and 1 TD. Brandon Marshall has 7 catches for 61 yards and no scores. Eddie Royal has 5 catches for 38 yards and no scores. In Denver, w/ Cutler, Marshall and Royal were an elite WR combination. Royal was a rookie, but played beyond his years and experience while Marshall was seen as one of the top 5 WRs in the game. W/ Cutler, these two WRs are not even worth a flex start on a FF roster. In Chicago, Knox was a WR considered to have raw talent and speed, but needing time to develop coming from a small school. Yet he showed flashes throughout camp, and through two games, started to develop as Bear fans are not used to seeing from rookie WRs. At least not Chicago Bear rookie WRs. Bennett, who had zero catches his rookie year, currently leads the team w/ 9. Kellen Davis, who also had zero catches last year, has 5 catches and a score. This is after two games. I can't wait to see the development of our receivers throughout the season. When you consider how many young receivers we have, and what a franchise QB can do to help the development of such raw talent, it really has to bring some optimism, both for today and tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 So often we ask whether the QB makes the WR or the other way around. W/o saying this is evidence for the question as a whole, how about this for our specific element of the question. Johnny Knox, a 5th round pick rookie from a small school has 8 catches for 152 yards and 1 TD. Brandon Marshall has 7 catches for 61 yards and no scores. Eddie Royal has 5 catches for 38 yards and no scores. In Denver, w/ Cutler, Marshall and Royal were an elite WR combination. Royal was a rookie, but played beyond his years and experience while Marshall was seen as one of the top 5 WRs in the game. W/ Cutler, these two WRs are not even worth a flex start on a FF roster. In Chicago, Knox was a WR considered to have raw talent and speed, but needing time to develop coming from a small school. Yet he showed flashes throughout camp, and through two games, started to develop as Bear fans are not used to seeing from rookie WRs. At least not Chicago Bear rookie WRs. Bennett, who had zero catches his rookie year, currently leads the team w/ 9. Kellen Davis, who also had zero catches last year, has 5 catches and a score. This is after two games. I can't wait to see the development of our receivers throughout the season. When you consider how many young receivers we have, and what a franchise QB can do to help the development of such raw talent, it really has to bring some optimism, both for today and tomorrow. I am a firm believer that the QB makes the WR more so then the other way around. For one example take Randy Moss, in Oakland he didnt do crap, but in MN and NE he is great. Now Oak had alot more wrong then just a QB while he was there, he still didnt perform well. Here is why i believe that the QB makes the WR. If the qb is getting the ball to the WR in the right timing and in the right spot then it makes the WR life alot easier. Say the WR is covered well or even double covered and the qb puts it in a spot only the WR can catch then it goes as a catch and not an incomplete pass. even more so in the NFL it is all about timing and if a wr gets one step on the coverage and the qb delievers it right on it can go for a big play. Also when you have a QB that can move around the pocket to buy more time and get passes off that other QB's(Orton and Grossman) couldnt we have more of a chance to make plays. One play that i wanted to point out from yesterday: The Kellen Davis TD pass. Cutler looks left and then right and with a quick release and rocket of a pass gets it in between 2 defenders. That is something we have not seen in a long time if ever. If that pass was not thrown that quickly or that hard that pass is picked off. After 2 games i am pretty excited with what i saw and the future!!! Go Bears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 We always hear, and even talk about arm strength, but I am not sure I realized before yesterday just what a difference it makes. For years we talked about Rex and what happened when he threw off his backfoot. Well, Cutler throws off his backfoot plenty, and did so on that K.Davis TD pass you mentioned. But Cutler has an arm such that he can throw off his backfoot and still zip the ball into a tight opening. If Rex wasn't able to step into his throws, he just couldn't put enough zip on the ball. W/ Cutler, it is simply so different. This is not a Rex-bashing post, but simply pointing out the difference pure arm strength makes. I am a firm believer that the QB makes the WR more so then the other way around. For one example take Randy Moss, in Oakland he didnt do crap, but in MN and NE he is great. Now Oak had alot more wrong then just a QB while he was there, he still didnt perform well. Here is why i believe that the QB makes the WR. If the qb is getting the ball to the WR in the right timing and in the right spot then it makes the WR life alot easier. Say the WR is covered well or even double covered and the qb puts it in a spot only the WR can catch then it goes as a catch and not an incomplete pass. even more so in the NFL it is all about timing and if a wr gets one step on the coverage and the qb delievers it right on it can go for a big play. Also when you have a QB that can move around the pocket to buy more time and get passes off that other QB's(Orton and Grossman) couldnt we have more of a chance to make plays. One play that i wanted to point out from yesterday: The Kellen Davis TD pass. Cutler looks left and then right and with a quick release and rocket of a pass gets it in between 2 defenders. That is something we have not seen in a long time if ever. If that pass was not thrown that quickly or that hard that pass is picked off. After 2 games i am pretty excited with what i saw and the future!!! Go Bears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 So true. He just drilled that pass to Davis in the end zone for the 1st TD. I'm not sure how many other QB's could have done that. I just love this game as a real confisence booster. We still have holes, but with confidence, some of those holes will appear smaller than they appear in the mirror... We always hear, and even talk about arm strength, but I am not sure I realized before yesterday just what a difference it makes. For years we talked about Rex and what happened when he threw off his backfoot. Well, Cutler throws off his backfoot plenty, and did so on that K.Davis TD pass you mentioned. But Cutler has an arm such that he can throw off his backfoot and still zip the ball into a tight opening. If Rex wasn't able to step into his throws, he just couldn't put enough zip on the ball. W/ Cutler, it is simply so different. This is not a Rex-bashing post, but simply pointing out the difference pure arm strength makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear trap Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 So often we ask whether the QB makes the WR or the other way around. W/o saying this is evidence for the question as a whole, how about this for our specific element of the question. Johnny Knox, a 5th round pick rookie from a small school has 8 catches for 152 yards and 1 TD. Brandon Marshall has 7 catches for 61 yards and no scores. Eddie Royal has 5 catches for 38 yards and no scores. In Denver, w/ Cutler, Marshall and Royal were an elite WR combination. Royal was a rookie, but played beyond his years and experience while Marshall was seen as one of the top 5 WRs in the game. W/ Cutler, these two WRs are not even worth a flex start on a FF roster. In Chicago, Knox was a WR considered to have raw talent and speed, but needing time to develop coming from a small school. Yet he showed flashes throughout camp, and through two games, started to develop as Bear fans are not used to seeing from rookie WRs. At least not Chicago Bear rookie WRs. Bennett, who had zero catches his rookie year, currently leads the team w/ 9. Kellen Davis, who also had zero catches last year, has 5 catches and a score. This is after two games. I can't wait to see the development of our receivers throughout the season. When you consider how many young receivers we have, and what a franchise QB can do to help the development of such raw talent, it really has to bring some optimism, both for today and tomorrow. Helluva post all I can say. I love having a qb and no matter what if he has his bad games oh well it happens. He's making this wr core legit. I just wish he'd show a little love to hester last game b/c he was open on quite a few deep routes. All it takes is one for him to see what he has in devin and maybe then he'll finally realize that the man just can't be covered on a go route. Here's to seeing a total massacre out in Seattle next week! Cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Also, you can look at the QB-WR equation and say that normally the more difficult side of the equation has the bigger impact on success. So on any given play, who's job is more difficult to execute? The QB has to worry about the entire offense and defense on every play, then has to make an accurate throw to the receiver. The receiver, if a passing play, just has to execute their route and catch the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 no way man angelo sux and he doesnt draft good and did i mention he sucks at his job somebody fire him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Helluva post all I can say. I love having a qb and no matter what if he has his bad games oh well it happens. He's making this wr core legit. I just wish he'd show a little love to hester last game b/c he was open on quite a few deep routes. All it takes is one for him to see what he has in devin and maybe then he'll finally realize that the man just can't be covered on a go route. Here's to seeing a total massacre out in Seattle next week! Cheers... Steelers have one of the best pass rushes in the league and considering all the blitzes they bring it wans't reasonable to wait on deep routes to develop. I know that as Cutler and these WR get more comfortable with hot reads the YAC potential these guys have will turn into big gains. I saw many more WR pointing out blitzes during the game so it's starting to happen and when it does it will make blitzing teams more hesitant to bring extra guys. Our Oline still has some work to do before they come together but I think there was good improvement from game 1 to game 2. If we get that same step up during game 3 Seattle is in trouble. In the meantime I absolutely love the fact that we can put together 10-12 play drives taking 5-6 minutes. We had a 97 yard drive covering 13 plays over almost 6min against the Steelers D. It's a far cry from recent years when we hoped for a short field to have a chance to score. Now we know we can do it against the best we just need to become more consistent in execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 no way man angelo sux and he doesnt draft good and did i mention he sucks at his job somebody fire him I realize it's sarcasm, but do you realize that Angelo didn't draft Cutler? It took balls to go out and get him, but this was a once in 10-15 years kind of opportunity that pretty much fell into the Bears' lap after making the big offer. Remember, when the deal was made, there were more people on the side of "the Bears offered too much" than there were on the "the Bears got a franchise QB" side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Steelers have one of the best pass rushes in the league and considering all the blitzes they bring it wans't reasonable to wait on deep routes to develop. I know that as Cutler and these WR get more comfortable with hot reads the YAC potential these guys have will turn into big gains. I saw many more WR pointing out blitzes during the game so it's starting to happen and when it does it will make blitzing teams more hesitant to bring extra guys. Our Oline still has some work to do before they come together but I think there was good improvement from game 1 to game 2. If we get that same step up during game 3 Seattle is in trouble. In the meantime I absolutely love the fact that we can put together 10-12 play drives taking 5-6 minutes. We had a 97 yard drive covering 13 plays over almost 6min against the Steelers D. It's a far cry from recent years when we hoped for a short field to have a chance to score. Now we know we can do it against the best we just need to become more consistent in execution. The announcers during the game said that the 97 yard drive was the longest Touchdown drive that the Steelers D has given up in 3 years. That is saying something. There D has been great the past couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I realize it's sarcasm, but do you realize that Angelo didn't draft Cutler? It took balls to go out and get him, but this was a once in 10-15 years kind of opportunity that pretty much fell into the Bears' lap after making the big offer. Remember, when the deal was made, there were more people on the side of "the Bears offered too much" than there were on the "the Bears got a franchise QB" side. I'm aware but he did draft guys like Knox, Hester, Tillman, Vasher, Harris, Afalava, Payne, Briggs, Anderson, Forte, Berrian, etc. All of those guys have helped us in the past and are with another team, helped us in the past but now they're starting to get worse, or are still helping us to this day. Also, he traded for Ogunleye which has helped us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I'm aware but he did draft guys like Knox, Hester, Tillman, Vasher, Harris, Afalava, Payne, Briggs, Anderson, Forte, Berrian, etc. All of those guys have helped us in the past and are with another team, helped us in the past but now they're starting to get worse, or are still helping us to this day. Also, he traded for Ogunleye which has helped us. The problem is, anyone for or against Angelo can come up with an impressive supporting list. In my opinion, his drafting has been slightly above average, but far from stellar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 So often we ask whether the QB makes the WR or the other way around. W/o saying this is evidence for the question as a whole, how about this for our specific element of the question. Johnny Knox, a 5th round pick rookie from a small school has 8 catches for 152 yards and 1 TD. Brandon Marshall has 7 catches for 61 yards and no scores. Eddie Royal has 5 catches for 38 yards and no scores. In Denver, w/ Cutler, Marshall and Royal were an elite WR combination. Royal was a rookie, but played beyond his years and experience while Marshall was seen as one of the top 5 WRs in the game. W/ Cutler, these two WRs are not even worth a flex start on a FF roster. In Chicago, Knox was a WR considered to have raw talent and speed, but needing time to develop coming from a small school. Yet he showed flashes throughout camp, and through two games, started to develop as Bear fans are not used to seeing from rookie WRs. At least not Chicago Bear rookie WRs. Bennett, who had zero catches his rookie year, currently leads the team w/ 9. Kellen Davis, who also had zero catches last year, has 5 catches and a score. This is after two games. I can't wait to see the development of our receivers throughout the season. When you consider how many young receivers we have, and what a franchise QB can do to help the development of such raw talent, it really has to bring some optimism, both for today and tomorrow. Good post. I am one who believes the QB makes the WR although a great WR will be able to help make a good QB better. Each week I get more hopeful about the possibilities of this receiving corps. If they keep improving and Cutlers number continue, THEN we'll finally be able to see this running game we've been missing but back to the WRs, it's possible we could have ourselves 1 or 2 1000 yd WRs and THAT'S exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 I too have seen Hester open, but I think a big problem is the side of the field he is on. Hester I think usually lines up on the left side. Due to our OL, Cutler is often on the run, and as a right handed QB, he is running to his right. While Hester may have space, w/ Cutler running to his right, (a) it is harder for him to spot Hester and ( throwing to Hester would mean Cutler throwing accross his body and accross the field, which is a very risky pass, even w/ his arm strength. To get Hester more involved, I think we need to (a) pass protect better, allowing Cutler to stay in the pocket more and ( have him run more cross patterns. Another key issue, still on Hester, is that while he gets open, he doesn't get open immediately. If you watch, he gets open, but by the time he does, Cutler is already running for his life. Helluva post all I can say. I love having a qb and no matter what if he has his bad games oh well it happens. He's making this wr core legit. I just wish he'd show a little love to hester last game b/c he was open on quite a few deep routes. All it takes is one for him to see what he has in devin and maybe then he'll finally realize that the man just can't be covered on a go route. Here's to seeing a total massacre out in Seattle next week! Cheers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted September 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 At least this season, I think we will have zero 1,000 yard receivers. Cutler is really spreading it around, and I think will continue to do so. While Knox had a big game, I question anyone believing we should expect that every week. I think he will have 2 or 3 catches most games. That is something I like w/ Cutler. He doesn't appear to be forcing the ball to any one receiver. One game, he was really going w/ Bennett, as he was getting open. In the last, Knox was obviously the top WR, while he was also getting the ball to the TEs frequently. In the next, it could be Hester and Forte. Just don't know. I think we have 1,000 yard potential WRs, but I am simply not sure we will have a 1,000 yard receiver this season. Good post. I am one who believes the QB makes the WR although a great WR will be able to help make a good QB better. Each week I get more hopeful about the possibilities of this receiving corps. If they keep improving and Cutlers number continue, THEN we'll finally be able to see this running game we've been missing but back to the WRs, it's possible we could have ourselves 1 or 2 1000 yd WRs and THAT'S exciting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 At least this season, I think we will have zero 1,000 yard receivers. Cutler is really spreading it around, and I think will continue to do so. While Knox had a big game, I question anyone believing we should expect that every week. I think he will have 2 or 3 catches most games. That is something I like w/ Cutler. He doesn't appear to be forcing the ball to any one receiver. One game, he was really going w/ Bennett, as he was getting open. In the last, Knox was obviously the top WR, while he was also getting the ball to the TEs frequently. In the next, it could be Hester and Forte. Just don't know. I think we have 1,000 yard potential WRs, but I am simply not sure we will have a 1,000 yard receiver this season. That one of the reasons Brady and Peyton Manning have been so great for so long. They will take what the defense gives you and still beat you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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