Hunter Hillenmeyer

[bowlingtwig]

Is there any news about his condition. If he is out for a significant time like the others so far I can't see how we can't get Brooks in here.

[SuperFan34]

Is there any news about his condition. If he is out for a significant time like the others so far I can't see how we can't get Brooks in here.

 

I thought Roach looked better at Mike than Hillenmeyer. I hope they keep him there.

[nfoligno]

Really? I thought roach looked like crap. I am not saying Hunter looked good, but right now, I have not been impressed w/ our LB depth. After the bye, we get back Pisa, and hopefully that will make a big difference, but Hunter, Roach and Williams have all been fairly un-impressive IMHO.

 

I thought Roach looked better at Mike than Hillenmeyer. I hope they keep him there.

 

[selection7]

At least Hunter didn't need Briggs to make the calls for him. And it doesn't matter how fast you get there if you don't make the tackle.

[BigDaddy]

I think the most important factor is the coverage and i think Roach did a better job. He's quicker and appears more physical than Hillenmeyer. I'll bet he wins out. By the way, when is Pisa coming back? That could also have alot to do with what we see from Roach. If the guy has it in him to play the middle, he solves ALOT of problems at that spot. Maybe we need to let him continue to play it so we can develop him for the future. Url isn't getting any younger and maybe, dare I say, it's time we looked into his worth in the marketplace. If Roach is handling the job well, it sure could be a lightening rod for this defense.

[Guest TerraTor]

Really? I thought roach looked like crap. I am not saying Hunter looked good, but right now, I have not been impressed w/ our LB depth. After the bye, we get back Pisa, and hopefully that will make a big difference, but Hunter, Roach and Williams have all been fairly un-impressive IMHO.

 

 

Roach looked really bad. Im wondering whats goin on with Brooks.... And can anyone argue with me that D Manning isnt terrible??

[nfoligno]

One, regarding our LB situation, I think a big part of our problem is our being down not one, but two LBs. I think once Pisa returns, our MLB will look better.

 

Two, I have always ripped DM, but feel he is actually playing pretty decent, and significantly better than our alternatives. What plays are you thinking of where DM has blown it? Against the Steelers, there was the short TD it looked like he blew, but even the coaches said that was not on him. I believe it was Roach who had the assignment of the TE, but bit on the run fake. DM was not responsible, but recognized it (a hair to late) and tried to make the play. In doing so, he was in the picture and looked at fault, but was really not.

 

To me, DM has shown a greater level of awareness this year. He is breaking on the ball a heck of a lot faster than Payne ever did, and broken up a couple passes that our other FS options just don't have the speed to make. He has also been pretty good in run support, and I love watching him blitz.

 

I am not saying he is a great FS, and maybe not even a good one at this point, but I would argue he has shown significant improvement since the last time he played FS, and further, has been significantly better than our other options. To me, many plays you might try to pin on DM are far more about our scheme and QB/WR simply picking us apart while we are in a zone.

 

Roach looked really bad. Im wondering whats goin on with Brooks.... And can anyone argue with me that D Manning isnt terrible??

 

[nfoligno]

I get the impression Pisa could play this week, but I think we hold him out until after the bye to make sure he is 100%, and not risk making the injury worse.

 

I just disagree on Roach. There is no question he is faster and more athletic than Hunter, but I think he is slower to read plays. Thus, while he may be faster, he is breaking on the ball later and his greater speed is a wash. Also, I think he has struggles even more than Hunter to get off his blocks.

 

At the end of the day, neither are a great option, but looking forward, I do not see Roach as our future. Remember, he was given the SLB job last year, but didn't do well, and the staff even said so. His play last year prompted us to go out and add a FS.

 

The player I would like to see us try and develop more is Williams, who is never going to get a shot if we continues to sit behind Briggs.

 

I think the most important factor is the coverage and i think Roach did a better job. He's quicker and appears more physical than Hillenmeyer. I'll bet he wins out. By the way, when is Pisa coming back? That could also have alot to do with what we see from Roach. If the guy has it in him to play the middle, he solves ALOT of problems at that spot. Maybe we need to let him continue to play it so we can develop him for the future. Url isn't getting any younger and maybe, dare I say, it's time we looked into his worth in the marketplace. If Roach is handling the job well, it sure could be a lightening rod for this defense.

 

[bowlingtwig]

I think the most important factor is the coverage and i think Roach did a better job. He's quicker and appears more physical than Hillenmeyer. I'll bet he wins out. By the way, when is Pisa coming back? That could also have alot to do with what we see from Roach. If the guy has it in him to play the middle, he solves ALOT of problems at that spot. Maybe we need to let him continue to play it so we can develop him for the future. Url isn't getting any younger and maybe, dare I say, it's time we looked into his worth in the marketplace. If Roach is handling the job well, it sure could be a lightening rod for this defense.

From what I have heard and read about Pisa he should be back after the by week.

[lemonej]

I was under the impression that Pisa played MLB last season for the Rams and was their leading tackler.Couldn't he play the middle for us at least on running downs?

[bowlingtwig]

I was under the impression that Pisa played MLB last season for the Rams and was their leading tackler.Couldn't he play the middle for us at least on running downs?

You are correct he was there MLB and he was there leading tackler several years running.

[defiantgiant]

I was under the impression that Pisa played MLB last season for the Rams and was their leading tackler.Couldn't he play the middle for us at least on running downs?

 

If memory serves, Chris Claiborne was the Rams' MLB, then Will Witherspoon, then they drafted Laurinaitis and Witherspoon switched to WLB. Tinoisamoa started out on the strong side for St. Louis, then he went to the weak side for a season or two until they cut him and moved Witherspoon there.

 

As far as I know, Pisa never played in the middle - he's WAY undersized to be a middle linebacker. He's listed at 230, but by all accounts his playing weight is down around 220. He's fast and he's a great tackler, but the knock on him has always been that bigger blockers can take him out of a play. Putting Pisa in the middle on running downs would be setting him up to fail - if you stick him in the A or B gap against a guard, there's no way he's getting off that block.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Pisa plays. From what I've seen so far, his range is ridiculous - it's like having an extra safety on the field. But I've never heard of a 220-pound middle linebacker being successful. I think we're better off leaving Pisa on the strong side and going with what we have in the middle, whether that's Hillenmeyer, Roach, or Jamar Williams.

[nfoligno]

First, I am not sure the playing weight is that different among our LBs. Pisa is 230lbs. I realize there were articles about how he dropped weight as the season went on but (a) that is true of EVERY player and ( Rusty was supposed to be working w/ him to better maintain his playing weight.

 

Roach is 234lbs, only 4 lbs heavier than Pisa. Williams is 237 and Hunter 238. From what we are hearing, it sounds like Roach will be the man once Pisa returns, so I just question how big of an issue the weight is. For the record, this really puts what sort of player Urlacher was into perspective. Urlacher's listed weight is 258, which is closer to our DE size than LB, and yet he had such speed and athleticism that players 20 and 30 pounds lighter can't match. That is simply freakish.

 

Second, if you don't think about weight for a moment, and just go off what you have seen on the field. Did you get to watch that 2nd preseason game against NYG? There was a play that made ESPN where Brandon Jacobs flat out ran over Urlacher. W/ in a play or two after that, Jacobs again had the ball, but this time Pisa was the first on the scene, and he stood up Jacobs. Urlacher then came in and cleaned up. That is just one play, but IMHO, was reflective of what we saw Pisa do when he was on the field. He simply doesn't seem to play to his weight.

 

I am not saying we should move Pisa to the middle. Honestly, I do not know how much he has played there, and how well it would work. I just don't know. But I do not think his size should be the reason to don't do it. Pisa has shown he can tackle as well or better than any of our LBs, except maybe Briggs. There is little question the MLB is a key in our defense, far more than SLB. If Pisa is our 2nd best LB, and can make the transition, then it very well may be something we need to look at. W/ the bye coming up, it would be a good time to work on any changes we do need to make.

 

If memory serves, Chris Claiborne was the Rams' MLB, then Will Witherspoon, then they drafted Laurinaitis and Witherspoon switched to WLB. Tinoisamoa started out on the strong side for St. Louis, then he went to the weak side for a season or two until they cut him and moved Witherspoon there.

 

As far as I know, Pisa never played in the middle - he's WAY undersized to be a middle linebacker. He's listed at 230, but by all accounts his playing weight is down around 220. He's fast and he's a great tackler, but the knock on him has always been that bigger blockers can take him out of a play. Putting Pisa in the middle on running downs would be setting him up to fail - if you stick him in the A or B gap against a guard, there's no way he's getting off that block.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the way Pisa plays. From what I've seen so far, his range is ridiculous - it's like having an extra safety on the field. But I've never heard of a 220-pound middle linebacker being successful. I think we're better off leaving Pisa on the strong side and going with what we have in the middle, whether that's Hillenmeyer, Roach, or Jamar Williams.

 

[defiantgiant]

Second, if you don't think about weight for a moment, and just go off what you have seen on the field. Did you get to watch that 2nd preseason game against NYG? There was a play that made ESPN where Brandon Jacobs flat out ran over Urlacher. W/ in a play or two after that, Jacobs again had the ball, but this time Pisa was the first on the scene, and he stood up Jacobs. Urlacher then came in and cleaned up. That is just one play, but IMHO, was reflective of what we saw Pisa do when he was on the field. He simply doesn't seem to play to his weight.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that Pisa stood him up. If you're talking about the play I think you are, Pisa came in low and put a shoulder into Jacobs' leg. It was a great tackle, and definitely way better than Urlacher getting trucked, but I don't think it was indicative of the same skills you need from a middle linebacker. From what I've seen so far, Pisa's successful on a lot of tackles because he goes very low and wraps guys up by the legs. That makes him an awesome open-field tackler, but I don't think that he'd be able to do the same thing in a small space with linemen blocking him. Regardless of the weight issue, he just doesn't seem to have that kind of power. Again, this is just from what I've seen, but both Roach and Hillenmeyer hit with a lot more force; Pisa wraps guys up and drags them down. It's not a bad thing, he's just better suited to play on the outside.

 

I am not saying we should move Pisa to the middle. Honestly, I do not know how much he has played there, and how well it would work. I just don't know. But I do not think his size should be the reason to don't do it. Pisa has shown he can tackle as well or better than any of our LBs, except maybe Briggs. There is little question the MLB is a key in our defense, far more than SLB. If Pisa is our 2nd best LB, and can make the transition, then it very well may be something we need to look at. W/ the bye coming up, it would be a good time to work on any changes we do need to make.

I don't have any problem with your conclusion here, I just don't think it's true that he can make the transition. His physical skillset doesn't translate that well to playing in the middle. He's also a career outside linebacker, like Briggs; both Roach and Hillenmeyer, on the other hand, have a fair amount of experience playing in the middle. I know that neither Roach nor Hillenmeyer is our best linebacker - there's a dropoff from Urlacher to those two. But I just don't think that playing one of our better players out of position is the answer. Pisa's shown that he fits best on the outside, Roach and Hillenmeyer have looked (so far) much better in the middle than they did on the strong side. I think we should just leave the guys where they fit best.