Connorbear Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 They are playing some outstanding football. Kyle is playing within himself and limiting the mistakes. I'm sure they will hit a roadblock sooner of later, but you have to give them credit for a great win today. Peace FYI - I still love the trade and I know that Cutler is a franchise QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Josh McDaniels acting like a complete a**clown after the game. This isn't college you b***ard. Anyways, Orton is the same QB. They're dialing up 5-10 yard outs every time, with an occasional 10 yard slant. They're lucky their defense is playing very well, or they'd be totally screwed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Josh McDaniels acting like a complete a**clown after the game. This isn't college you b***ard. Anyways, Orton is the same QB. They're dialing up 5-10 yard outs every time, with an occasional 10 yard slant. They're lucky their defense is playing very well, or they'd be totally screwed. Plus they have the best offensive line in football. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 It was a really good game. I'm happy Orton is seeing some success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Anyways, Orton is the same QB. They're dialing up 5-10 yard outs every time, with an occasional 10 yard slant. They're lucky their defense is playing very well, or they'd be totally screwed. You are making it seem like this is dink and dunk. Orton completed 73% of his passes and threw 48 times and a bunch were beyond 10 yards. He averaged more yards per attempt than Brady, and 5 receivers had 4 or more receptions. This wasn't just the defense either. Denver had the ball for 36 mins and over 400 yards. Orton would've been much better for us this year (but I still do the trade every time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 ...330yds and 2 TDs with no real picks (the pick, Kyle's first this season, was a hail mary pick with 3 seconds left in the first half.). An excellent game against one of the best teams in the NFL. Kyle is now 18-2 QBing a home game in his career. BTW, at what point do I get to say "I told you so" to all the people who ridiculously called Kyle "mediocre" and "not the future", letting their emotions and bias rule rather than their memory of Kyle's record no pick streak and arguably pro-bowl play before he got hurt in his first true season as a Bears' starter? Ultimately, I hope to see what I said a little over a month ago come true, which is that I think BOTH teams will end up feeling good about this trade a couple of years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 ...330yds and 2 TDs with no real picks (the pick, Kyle's first this season, was a hail mary pick with 3 seconds left in the first half.). An excellent game against one of the best teams in the NFL. Kyle is now 18-2 QBing a home game in his career. BTW, at what point do I get to say "I told you so" to all the people who ridiculously called Kyle "mediocre" and "not the future", letting their emotions and bias rule rather than their memory of Kyle's record no pick streak and arguably pro-bowl play before he got hurt in his first true season as a Bears' starter? Ultimately, I hope to see what I said a little over a month ago come true, which is that I think BOTH teams will end up feeling good about this trade a couple of years from now. Was it as bad here as you see on other sites? There seems to be more smart posters here then you'll see other places. It's the main reason I only post here when I post. I was a little sour on the trade because I was so excited to see the Bears finally develop their own QB. I'm really happy with the trade now. Between Cutler and Knox, we got a pretty darn good deal in my opinion. I'm really happy with Orton's success so far. Bronco's have been my 3rd team I've been rooting for this year. Once big Mike took over in San Fran I've been wanting to see them win and the Bronco's because of Orton. Most important thing to me, Bears are 3-1 going into next week with an explosive offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Josh McDaniels acting like a complete a**clown after the game. This isn't college you b***ard. Anyways, Orton is the same QB. They're dialing up 5-10 yard outs every time, with an occasional 10 yard slant. They're lucky their defense is playing very well, or they'd be totally screwed. Orton led the Broncos on scoring drives of 90, 66, 98 and 58 yards. With 10 minutes left in the game, New England led 17-10, and Denver was starting at its own 2. 5-10 yard outs apparently win games just as well as long bombs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Okay, props. Great. Now, these Patriots aren't the same regular Patriots. I didn't think Denver could hang with them, but they did. Now, they have a really tough upcoming schedule (@ SD, SD, NYG, @ BAL, @ IND, PIT, @ PHI). Like somebody mentioned on SoxTalk, the best part of the NFL playoffs are all the average teams being eliminated in round 1. IMO, the Broncos will be one of those teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 ...330yds and 2 TDs with no real picks (the pick, Kyle's first this season, was a hail mary pick with 3 seconds left in the first half.). An excellent game against one of the best teams in the NFL. Kyle is now 18-2 QBing a home game in his career. BTW, at what point do I get to say "I told you so" to all the people who ridiculously called Kyle "mediocre" and "not the future", letting their emotions and bias rule rather than their memory of Kyle's record no pick streak and arguably pro-bowl play before he got hurt in his first true season as a Bears' starter? Ultimately, I hope to see what I said a little over a month ago come true, which is that I think BOTH teams will end up feeling good about this trade a couple of years from now. you must not remember watching kyle orton play behind our oline. he is getting great protection if not perfect. the one time NE got pressure yesterday he threw a shit pass that should have been picked off but instead was tipped to Gafney. he also has 2 great WR's. did you see the TD to BM, a crappy thrown pass that Marshal made a great play on. the throw sucked, BM was running a fade and had to cut it short. hey im happy for Orton but to say "i told you so" is crazy. if orton played for the Bears this year i dont think he would have made it out of th GB game. i would say our record would be 1-3 with Orton. he is not good under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azbearsfan Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Josh McDaniels acting like a complete a**clown after the game. This isn't college you b***ard. Dude, I was thinking the same thing. Act like you have been there before, rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 you must not remember watching kyle orton play behind our oline. he is getting great protection if not perfect. the one time NE got pressure yesterday he threw a shit pass that should have been picked off but instead was tipped to Gafney. he also has 2 great WR's. did you see the TD to BM, a crappy thrown pass that Marshal made a great play on. the throw sucked, BM was running a fade and had to cut it short. hey im happy for Orton but to say "i told you so" is crazy. if orton played for the Bears this year i dont think he would have made it out of th GB game. i would say our record would be 1-3 with Orton. he is not good under pressure. I totally agree. With the way these teams are getting to Cutler, or almost getting to Cutler, we'd surely be 1-3. Also, Cutler gets no credit for his GW throw in Seattle, because "it was a high throw and Hester did the rest", yet Orton gets all the credit for his GW throw to Marshall last week against Dallas, even though he caught a 15 yard lob and did the rest. It's amazing how it works. Like I read somewhere, Cutler is better for our system then Orton is, and Orton is better for their system then he is for ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I always liked Orton. I was high on him when we drafted him, and felt he got a bad rap after his rookie season by fans who I suppose felt he should have been able to do everything from day one. W/ that said, lets not get carries away here on the "I told you so" talk. Orton is doing well in Denver, but who is to say he would look close to as good in Chicago. When I have had a chance to watch the Denver games, opponents rarely get close to Orton, much less what he would have dealt w/ in Chicago. While we have some receivers stepping up this year, few would say we have close to the talent Denver has. Further, while this would be more debatable, I question how much we would have seen players like Knox and Bennett stepping up if we had Orton rather than Cutler. At the end of the day, Orton is looking pretty damn solid for Denver, but lets just not get carries away and pretend the situations are that similar. And how about that Denver defense that is looking pretty outstanding. Too bad Shanny had never thought to hire Nolan. At the end of the day, this is a win win trade. Denver got rid of a QB the new HC didn't feel fit his system, and while most view their getting a lesser QB in return, he is a better fit for the system, and thus for the team. They also got a couple draft picks to help a team build that seemed to need a big infusion of young talent. We got a franchise QB that has fans talking about Sid Luckman. Oh yea, and a pretty damn good looking rookie WR w/ that 5th Denver sent too. I totally agree. With the way these teams are getting to Cutler, or almost getting to Cutler, we'd surely be 1-3. Also, Cutler gets no credit for his GW throw in Seattle, because "it was a high throw and Hester did the rest", yet Orton gets all the credit for his GW throw to Marshall last week against Dallas, even though he caught a 15 yard lob and did the rest. It's amazing how it works. Like I read somewhere, Cutler is better for our system then Orton is, and Orton is better for their system then he is for ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted October 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 We got a franchise QB that has fans talking about Sid Luckman. Oh yea, and a pretty damn good looking rookie QB w/ that 5th Denver sent too. I think you meant to say rookie WR. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 That is what I said, or at least after I fixed my post:) Man, if only life were so simple as to go back and press an edit button. I would likely be in the doghouse w/ the wife only half as often. I think you meant to say rookie WR. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I always liked Orton. I was high on him when we drafted him, and felt he got a bad rap after his rookie season by fans who I suppose felt he should have been able to do everything from day one. W/ that said, lets not get carries away here on the "I told you so" talk. Orton is doing well in Denver, but who is to say he would look close to as good in Chicago. When I have had a chance to watch the Denver games, opponents rarely get close to Orton, much less what he would have dealt w/ in Chicago. While we have some receivers stepping up this year, few would say we have close to the talent Denver has. Further, while this would be more debatable, I question how much we would have seen players like Knox and Bennett stepping up if we had Orton rather than Cutler. At the end of the day, Orton is looking pretty damn solid for Denver, but lets just not get carries away and pretend the situations are that similar. And how about that Denver defense that is looking pretty outstanding. Too bad Shanny had never thought to hire Nolan. At the end of the day, this is a win win trade. Denver got rid of a QB the new HC didn't feel fit his system, and while most view their getting a lesser QB in return, he is a better fit for the system, and thus for the team. They also got a couple draft picks to help a team build that seemed to need a big infusion of young talent. We got a franchise QB that has fans talking about Sid Luckman. Oh yea, and a pretty damn good looking rookie WR w/ that 5th Denver sent too. What? I'm agreeing with you. I said that Orton doesn't fit into our system like he does with Denver, but Cutler fits into our system better than Denver's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I was replying in the string, and yes, we basically agree, but I was also commenting on the previous (not yours) "I told you so" comment. What? I'm agreeing with you. I said that Orton doesn't fit into our system like he does with Denver, but Cutler fits into our system better than Denver's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 you must not remember watching kyle orton play behind our oline. he is getting great protection if not perfect. the one time NE got pressure yesterday he threw a shit pass that should have been picked off but instead was tipped to Gafney. he also has 2 great WR's. did you see the TD to BM, a crappy thrown pass that Marshal made a great play on. the throw sucked, BM was running a fade and had to cut it short. hey im happy for Orton but to say "i told you so" is crazy. if orton played for the Bears this year i dont think he would have made it out of th GB game. i would say our record would be 1-3 with Orton. he is not good under pressure. Again. Ridiculous. It wasn't a great day, but this is the Patriot's D-line you're talking about here, not the Lions. And our O talent was worse last year. I remember everything about Kyle Orton playing behind our line. I also remember Rex's talent but lack of self-control and how clearly superior Kyle looked on the field compared to him (like his ability to make slight pocket movements to avoid the rush and his play during crucial stretches, unlike Rex. Your "not good under pressure" is about as convincing as all that talk about him being "weak armed"). And I remember Chad Hutchinson and Henry Burris and their absolutely cluesless play. I've seen it all, that's why it was so easy to recognize the difference just by watching it on the field...stats aside. Why couldn't you? Or maybe why wouldn't you is the better question. Last year I refused to jump on the "Kyle is the future" bandwagon until he proved himself to be talented and in control for more than just a few games, but after the seventh game I relented and accepted it, posting something like "Hallelujah, finally we've got ourselves a QB!". The only reason I was dissapointed at first when we got Cutler is because we gave up so much, I'd never seen him play (it's all Bears with me) and statistically the evidence wasn't there to support giving up so much. But both he and Orton are playing better for their new teams than they did previously, just as you should expect since they were both young, developing players, though I didn't figure we'd see it so soon. Let me say now we're seeing media/posters bashing Lovie/Angelo for not developing Orton or Cedric, which is stupid to me because Cedric needed a wake up call that only canning him would provide and Orton was developed. Kyle's numbers were great before the injury, in his first season as the anointed starer, and after some healing he finished the season with nearly a 100 QB rating game at Houston. If anything, Lovie should be given credit for developing Kyle but yet still realizing that Cutler was ahead in development (waaay more starts in recent years) and that our window on the defensive talent we've put in place is running out of time. Was it as bad here as you see on other sites? No, Talkbears posters are absolutely not the media following sheep you see elsewhere; I asked my question just in general because it's been all over. As soon as we traded for Jay it was like a lot of people wanted to rewrite history and I'm going "Where is this coming from? They weren't talking like this last year." It's still way too early to start calling Orton a "franchise" QB or to say he's as good as Cutler, yet I also think it should be clear now that having lumped him in with our past failures at QB or saying he's just a placeholder was something that should make the naysayers stop an question themsleves. Are you watching the games or just listening to the radio call in shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I always liked Orton. I was high on him when we drafted him, and felt he got a bad rap after his rookie season by fans who I suppose felt he should have been able to do everything from day one. W/ that said, lets not get carries away here on the "I told you so" talk. But am I getting carried away? Not really. I'm addressing those who lumped Orton in with all the other failures, the most ridiculous of the lot. While the ones who simply said Orton will never be a franchise QB are safe for now, (and probably correct). Also, keep in mind Orton is solid under pressure, so while more pressure might result in no longer being a 100+ QB rating passer, I'm not convinced that really is necessary to my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Dude, I was thinking the same thing. Act like you have been there before, rookie. I liked it. He did it in front of his home stadium fans (and family) after respectfully thanking the other team for their sportmanship. By conventional wisdom, he's too young to be coaching in the NFL yet he's still never lost a game and just beat the NFL's only modern dynasty. You ask way too much of him. Especially since he hasn't been there before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I guess I would question who thought Orton was as bad as you are talking about. Sure, there might be a poster here or there, but at least on this board, I just don't recall so many who felt Orton was "that" bad. I think most here felt Orton was more like a Trent Dilfer. Nice QB who, if in the right system and surrounded by talent, can do well. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. That's my issue I guess w/ the "I told you so". Who did you tell? But am I getting carried away? Not really. I'm addressing those who lumped Orton in with all the other failures, the most ridiculous of the lot. While the ones who simply said Orton will never be a franchise QB are safe for now, (and probably correct). Also, keep in mind Orton is solid under pressure, so while more pressure might result in no longer being a 100+ QB rating passer, I'm not convinced that really is necessary to my position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The bias is shining mightily. All over, Orton is the second coming of Brady (just read peter King's horrid MMQB article on SI.com today) http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...tml?eref=sihpT1 and Cutler is still the petulant crybaby. But, I'm taking it all with a grian of salt. It's week 5. There are 12 more weeks to go, and a lot can and will happen before the playoffs are all set. And we'll see how all this shakes out. I think the bears will be beyond thrilled to have Cutler, and I think the Broncos will be happy with Orton. I think Cutler is still the better QB. I fully agree that w/ Kyle, we'd be lucky to have more than 1 win. The O line makes a huge difference. Look at what Brady couldn't do yesterday... I totally agree. With the way these teams are getting to Cutler, or almost getting to Cutler, we'd surely be 1-3. Also, Cutler gets no credit for his GW throw in Seattle, because "it was a high throw and Hester did the rest", yet Orton gets all the credit for his GW throw to Marshall last week against Dallas, even though he caught a 15 yard lob and did the rest. It's amazing how it works. Like I read somewhere, Cutler is better for our system then Orton is, and Orton is better for their system then he is for ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 You make some good points. Overall, I liked Orton. I think he was, and still is a fantastic game manager. He's also shown some this season, that he could be a bit more. Something we never saw much of, but that was probably due to the skill set around him (O Line). I prefer Cutler. He's got silly upside and I think can make more happen with less. And I think he's proven that so far here. The whole idea of JA bashing over Benson is plain silly. Benson wouldn't be where he is today w/o the wake-up call the Bears were foreced to give him. Had he stayed with the Bears, he would have floundered and probably been out of football by now. The young man felt early on that he was owed... Then reality hit, and he made some bad personal decisions besided not preforming on the field. Then he woke up and got it right. Now he's a decent to good RB for the Bengals. I'm happy the young man got his act together. But I hope he fumbles like no tomorrow when we play him in 2 weeks! Again. Ridiculous. It wasn't a great day, but this is the Patriot's D-line you're talking about here, not the Lions. And our O talent was worse last year. I remember everything about Kyle Orton playing behind our line. I also remember Rex's talent but lack of self-control and how clearly superior Kyle looked on the field compared to him (like his ability to make slight pocket movements to avoid the rush and his play during crucial stretches, unlike Rex. Your "not good under pressure" is about as convincing as all that talk about him being "weak armed"). And I remember Chad Hutchinson and Henry Burris and their absolutely cluesless play. I've seen it all, that's why it was so easy to recognize the difference just by watching it on the field...stats aside. Why couldn't you? Or maybe why wouldn't you is the better question. Last year I refused to jump on the "Kyle is the future" bandwagon until he proved himself to be talented and in control for more than just a few games, but after the seventh game I relented and accepted it, posting something like "Hallelujah, finally we've got ourselves a QB!". The only reason I was dissapointed at first when we got Cutler is because we gave up so much, I'd never seen him play (it's all Bears with me) and statistically the evidence wasn't there to support giving up so much. But both he and Orton are playing better for their new teams than they did previously, just as you should expect since they were both young, developing players, though I didn't figure we'd see it so soon. Let me say now we're seeing media/posters bashing Lovie/Angelo for not developing Orton or Cedric, which is stupid to me because Cedric needed a wake up call that only canning him would provide and Orton was developed. Kyle's numbers were great before the injury, in his first season as the anointed starer, and after some healing he finished the season with nearly a 100 QB rating game at Houston. If anything, Lovie should be given credit for developing Kyle but yet still realizing that Cutler was ahead in development (waaay more starts in recent years) and that our window on the defensive talent we've put in place is running out of time. No, Talkbears posters are absolutely not the media following sheep you see elsewhere; I asked my question just in general because it's been all over. As soon as we traded for Jay it was like a lot of people wanted to rewrite history and I'm going "Where is this coming from? They weren't talking like this last year." It's still way too early to start calling Orton a "franchise" QB or to say he's as good as Cutler, yet I also think it should be clear now that having lumped him in with our past failures at QB or saying he's just a placeholder was something that should make the naysayers stop an question themsleves. Are you watching the games or just listening to the radio call in shows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Win win is right... That's really how I see it. A fair trade as fair goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm working on that button to no avail... That is what I said, or at least after I fixed my post:) Man, if only life were so simple as to go back and press an edit button. I would likely be in the doghouse w/ the wife only half as often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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