Props to the Broncos

[nfoligno]

I remember everything about Kyle Orton playing behind our line. I also remember Rex's talent but lack of self-control and how clearly superior Kyle looked on the field compared to him (like his ability to make slight pocket movements to avoid the rush and his play during crucial stretches, unlike Rex. Your "not good under pressure" is about as convincing as all that talk about him being "weak armed"). And I remember Chad Hutchinson and Henry Burris and their absolutely cluesless play. I've seen it all, that's why it was so easy to recognize the difference just by watching it on the field...stats aside. Why couldn't you? Or maybe why wouldn't you is the better question.

 

I think it is all relative. I screamed for Orton to start over Rex. Rex simply lacked pocket presence. Orton had it. Compared to Rex, Orton looked like Marino moving around in the pocket. But, again, relative. Compared to Orton, Cutler looks like Steve Young moving around.

 

When posters say, and I agree, that Cutler would not do well w/ this OL, it isn't nearly the knock on Orton you think so much as to point out how Cutler is among the small number of QBs in the game who can.

 

Last year I refused to jump on the "Kyle is the future" bandwagon until he proved himself to be talented and in control for more than just a few games, but after the seventh game I relented and accepted it, posting something like "Hallelujah, finally we've got ourselves a QB!". The only reason I was dissapointed at first when we got Cutler is because we gave up so much, I'd never seen him play (it's all Bears with me) and statistically the evidence wasn't there to support giving up so much. But both he and Orton are playing better for their new teams than they did previously, just as you should expect since they were both young, developing players, though I didn't figure we'd see it so soon.

 

I had seen Cutler, and considered him, pure and simple, a franchise QB. When we traded for him, I was beyond thrilled. Orton is a nice QB, but he simply is not one that really elevates the play of those around him. He is a nice QB who, when surrounded w/ talent, can look good. That isn't an awful thing to say as there are plenty of QBs in the NFL surrounded w/ talent that look like crap. But the bears are not loaded down w/ talent, and we needed a QB like Cutler that could elevate what we had.

 

Let me say now we're seeing media/posters bashing Lovie/Angelo for not developing Orton or Cedric, which is stupid to me because Cedric needed a wake up call that only canning him would provide and Orton was developed. Kyle's numbers were great before the injury, in his first season as the anointed starer, and after some healing he finished the season with nearly a 100 QB rating game at Houston. If anything, Lovie should be given credit for developing Kyle but yet still realizing that Cutler was ahead in development (waaay more starts in recent years) and that our window on the defensive talent we've put in place is running out of time.

 

Benson - I agree he would have never made it w/ us the way he did w/ Cincy. I don't blame Lovie, and place the majority of fault on Benson who I feel is mentally soft, but at the same time, I think players were also a factor. While I think Benson didn't handle it well, and that made things worse, I do tend to believe that our team had a bit of a split w/ numerous players favoring TJ. It was really messed up. Again, Benson didn't deal w/ it well, and made a bad situation worse, but at the same time, I do fault numerous players in our locker room.

 

No, Talkbears posters are absolutely not the media following sheep you see elsewhere; I asked my question just in general because it's been all over. As soon as we traded for Jay it was like a lot of people wanted to rewrite history and I'm going "Where is this coming from? They weren't talking like this last year." It's still way too early to start calling Orton a "franchise" QB or to say he's as good as Cutler, yet I also think it should be clear now that having lumped him in with our past failures at QB or saying he's just a placeholder was something that should make the naysayers stop an question themsleves. Are you watching the games or just listening to the radio call in shows?

 

And again, I just question who lumped Orton w/ our past failures. Not just on this board, but outside. Orton was viewed as a servicable QB at worst. Few ever put him in the same category as Quinn, Burris, Cade, etc. It wasn't so much that Orton was viewed as awful, but more (a) he wasn't considered great and ( Cutler was simply viewed as a significant improvement.

[lemonej]

I liked it. He did it in front of his home stadium fans (and family) after respectfully thanking the other team for their sportmanship. By conventional wisdom, he's too young to be coaching in the NFL yet he's still never lost a game and just beat the NFL's only modern dynasty. You ask way too much of him. Especially since he hasn't been there before.

S7 this is the same media scrutiny that was taking "The White Glove" to all of Cutler's early press conferences watching facial expressions or whatever just to make news. Mc Danials IMO is a bit arrogant in the same mode as Lane Kiffin, Eric Mangini and others who have had limited success prior to becoming HC's.

[Ed Hochuli 3:16]

Again. Ridiculous. It wasn't a great day, but this is the Patriot's D-line you're talking about here, not the Lions. And our O talent was worse last year.

 

I remember everything about Kyle Orton playing behind our line. I also remember Rex's talent but lack of self-control and how clearly superior Kyle looked on the field compared to him (like his ability to make slight pocket movements to avoid the rush and his play during crucial stretches, unlike Rex. Your "not good under pressure" is about as convincing as all that talk about him being "weak armed"). And I remember Chad Hutchinson and Henry Burris and their absolutely cluesless play. I've seen it all, that's why it was so easy to recognize the difference just by watching it on the field...stats aside. Why couldn't you? Or maybe why wouldn't you is the better question.

 

Last year I refused to jump on the "Kyle is the future" bandwagon until he proved himself to be talented and in control for more than just a few games, but after the seventh game I relented and accepted it, posting something like "Hallelujah, finally we've got ourselves a QB!". The only reason I was dissapointed at first when we got Cutler is because we gave up so much, I'd never seen him play (it's all Bears with me) and statistically the evidence wasn't there to support giving up so much. But both he and Orton are playing better for their new teams than they did previously, just as you should expect since they were both young, developing players, though I didn't figure we'd see it so soon.

 

Let me say now we're seeing media/posters bashing Lovie/Angelo for not developing Orton or Cedric, which is stupid to me because Cedric needed a wake up call that only canning him would provide and Orton was developed. Kyle's numbers were great before the injury, in his first season as the anointed starer, and after some healing he finished the season with nearly a 100 QB rating game at Houston. If anything, Lovie should be given credit for developing Kyle but yet still realizing that Cutler was ahead in development (waaay more starts in recent years) and that our window on the defensive talent we've put in place is running out of time.

 

 

No, Talkbears posters are absolutely not the media following sheep you see elsewhere; I asked my question just in general because it's been all over. As soon as we traded for Jay it was like a lot of people wanted to rewrite history and I'm going "Where is this coming from? They weren't talking like this last year." It's still way too early to start calling Orton a "franchise" QB or to say he's as good as Cutler, yet I also think it should be clear now that having lumped him in with our past failures at QB or saying he's just a placeholder was something that should make the naysayers stop an question themsleves. Are you watching the games or just listening to the radio call in shows?

The great Patriots DL? Their 13th against the pass and 11th against the run. They're an average defense now, and so is their offense. Welker is still banged up and Brady looks rusty. Also, they have no running game what-so-ever- Morris and Maroney are 2 medicore RB's.

 

Great, the Broncos are playing well and so is Orton. They still have not played anyone, though I did doubt they'd beat the Pats. They'll finish with 10-11 wins, and they'll be out of the playoffs quick, IMO. We'll see how they play when they have to go to Indianapolis and to Baltimore. The Giants and Steelers have to go to Denver as well.

 

The Bears, on the other hand, have played some good competition. They were the first team to see what the Packers new defense was like, and almost pulled it out despite a brutal team performance. After that debacle, they had to play the Steelers, and they won. Then, they went to Seattle and won. I'm not about to say that the Seahawks have a great defense, but anytime a QB gets the ball in Seattle with 4 minutes left on the clock and leads his team down for a TD then the 2 point conversion is impressive. I'm not bragging, but being at that game, the 12th Man is no joke. Maybe it's the coffee up there, but they can get the noise up there, and it's the toughest place to the play in the NFL for a reason, whether the Seahawks have no injuries or 8. Now, the Lions still aren't very good, but coming off a win you could tell they wanted to win 2 straight for the first time since the Last Supper. They scored 21 points on what was seemingly their first 3 drives, and our offense had to match. They did, then the defense got some stops, the special teams got going, and we put them away.

 

All this talk about Orton being the next Brady is ridiculous. Brady has the it-factor and he always will. As far as I'm concerned, there will never be another guy like Brady, who could manage a game as well as win it. He was so cool in the toughest parts of games. Last week, Morrissey wrote an article about Cutler being the next Brady, and I instantly stopped reading. It's no disrespect to Orton- it's just nobody will be another Brady, including Cutler. Don't start with Peyton- let me know when he wins 2 more rings.

[Pixote]

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out over the next few weeks. If you look at the unbeaten teams like DEN, MIN, & IND, their schedules have thus far been relatively easy. They will all begin to take on legitimate teams of much better quality and we will see who the pretenders and who are the contenders.

 

 

[nfoligno]

Right now, I think a better comparison for Orton might be Cassel. If in the right situation, right system and w/ solid surrounding talent, he can look good. But he moves on and doesn't look like the same great QB.

 

In Denver, he has a very good OL and exceptional WR talent, and a scheme that matches his talent perfectly. Thus, in Denver, he can be a very good and effective QB. I am NOT taking away from him. But IMHO, if you take him out of such an ideal situation, I just do not believe he would look so good.

 

Cutler is the sort of QB that you can put him on nearly any team, and he can play at a high level.

 

The great Patriots DL? Their 13th against the pass and 11th against the run. They're an average defense now, and Welker is still banged up. Brady looks rusty, and they have no running game what-so-ever.

 

Great, the Broncos are playing well and so is Orton. They still have not played anyone, though I did doubt they'd beat the Pats. They'll finish with 10-11 wins, and they'll be out of the playoffs quick, IMO. We'll see how they play when they have to go to Indianapolis and to Baltimore. The Giants and Steelers have to go to Denver as well.

 

The Bears, on the other hand, have played some good competition. They were the first team to see what the Packers new defense was like, and almost pulled it out despite a brutal team performance. After that debacle, they had to play the Steelers, and they won. Then, they went to Seattle and won. I'm not about to say that the Seahawks have a great defense, but anytime a QB gets the ball in Seattle with 4 minutes left on the clock and leads his team down for a TD then the 2 point conversion is impressive. I'm not bragging, but being at that game, the 12th Man is no joke. Maybe it's the coffee up there, but they can get the noise up there, and it's the toughest place to the play in the NFL for a reason, whether the Seahawks have no injuries or 8. Now, the Lions still aren't very good, but coming off a win you could tell they wanted to win 2 straight for the first time since the Last Supper. They scored 21 points on what was seemingly their first 3 drives, and our offense had to match. They did, then the defense got some stops, the special teams got going, and we put them away.

 

All this talk about Orton being the next Brady is ridiculous. Brady has the it-factor and he always will. As far as I'm concerned, there will never be another guy like Brady, who could manage a game as well as win it. He was so cool in the toughest parts of games. Last week, Morrissey wrote an article about Cutler being the next Brady, and I instantly stopped reading. It's no disrespect to Orton- it's just nobody will be another Brady.

 

[madlithuanian]

You sum it up nicely right there...

 

I had seen Cutler, and considered him, pure and simple, a franchise QB. When we traded for him, I was beyond thrilled. Orton is a nice QB, but he simply is not one that really elevates the play of those around him. He is a nice QB who, when surrounded w/ talent, can look good. That isn't an awful thing to say as there are plenty of QBs in the NFL surrounded w/ talent that look like crap. But the bears are not loaded down w/ talent, and we needed a QB like Cutler that could elevate what we had.

 

[lemonej]

Right now, I think a better comparison for Orton might be Cassel. If in the right situation, right system and w/ solid surrounding talent, he can look good. But he moves on and doesn't look like the same great QB.

 

In Denver, he has a very good OL and exceptional WR talent, and a scheme that matches his talent perfectly. Thus, in Denver, he can be a very good and effective QB. I am NOT taking away from him. But IMHO, if you take him out of such an ideal situation, I just do not believe he would look so good.

 

Cutler is the sort of QB that you can put him on nearly any team, and he can play at a high level.

You're right and this is where the labels of Game Manager and Gunslinger come into play. Though some QB's like Orton don't like the tag Game Manager coaches like Mc Danials likes this type of QB because of his wanting to have his fingerprints on everything. Once teams take these first 5 games and break down what throws that Orton seems to make the most we will see how well McDanials scouts himself.

[madlithuanian]

Great point lemonej...

 

Once teams take these first 5 games and break down what throws that Orton seems to make the most we will see how well McDanials scouts himself.

 

[lemonej]

Great point lemonej...

I just remember how teams started adjusting to his throws in Turner's offense because it was rare that Orton would ad-lib on the field. So far you have seen Cutler improvise often during a play this season. I remember when Orton tried to improvise he got injured last year scrambling towards the sideline. Once D-coordinators knew he was stationary they were rushing him up the middle because he couldn't avoid the rush.

[jason]

Let me say now we're seeing media/posters bashing Lovie/Angelo for not developing Orton or Cedric, which is stupid to me because Cedric needed a wake up call that only canning him would provide and Orton was developed.

 

Regarding the Benson talk, I said it was a mistake to let him go. The reason he underperformed with the Bears was diverse, and started with sharing time with TJ, but in his last year it resulted from the fact that the OL was atrocious...something that has only seen a bandaid applied. Lo and behold, Benson goes to Cincy, gets behind a road-grader OL, and he's busting out stats.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

Regarding the Benson talk, I said it was a mistake to let him go. The reason he underperformed with the Bears was diverse, and started with sharing time with TJ, but in his last year it resulted from the fact that the OL was atrocious...something that has only seen a bandaid applied. Lo and behold, Benson goes to Cincy, gets behind a road-grader OL, and he's busting out stats.

I was huge Benson supporter, as I thought as most experts stated; that he was the most NFL ready back to come out of college when he was drafted. Lo and behold, we were wrong. He wasn't ready. He wasn't ready to grow up. He wasn't ready to train. He definately wasn't ready to be a professional.

 

In reading an article last night, I found what I believe is the truth. Here's the rub for me "People who know him insist he changed after his release and that the Bears got his attention by firing him. But it was other clubs passing on him, they say, that really shook him up. In fact, it was nearly four months before he landed a job, and then only because Cincinnati was running out of healthy backs." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12352707 I think most of us truly believe he never got it here. Whether it was the coaches not getting to him or him not getting tp himself. the ultimate responsibility was his. He simply did not do it.

 

I'll go as far to say it was Benson on his appearance alone. Look at him as a Bear and he looked soft. Look at him now and he looks chisled. It shows he's actually working for his paycheck. If I have to guess, we are going to see his demands in the offseason. I am a fan of Benson's ability and running style, but I'll have a hard time forgetting what he cost us.

 

In a nutshell, I couldn't disagree more.

[Chitownhustla]

Again. Ridiculous. It wasn't a great day, but this is the Patriot's D-line you're talking about here, not the Lions. And our O talent was worse last year.

 

I remember everything about Kyle Orton playing behind our line. I also remember Rex's talent but lack of self-control and how clearly superior Kyle looked on the field compared to him (like his ability to make slight pocket movements to avoid the rush and his play during crucial stretches, unlike Rex. Your "not good under pressure" is about as convincing as all that talk about him being "weak armed"). And I remember Chad Hutchinson and Henry Burris and their absolutely cluesless play. I've seen it all, that's why it was so easy to recognize the difference just by watching it on the field...stats aside. Why couldn't you? Or maybe why wouldn't you is the better question.

 

Last year I refused to jump on the "Kyle is the future" bandwagon until he proved himself to be talented and in control for more than just a few games, but after the seventh game I relented and accepted it, posting something like "Hallelujah, finally we've got ourselves a QB!". The only reason I was dissapointed at first when we got Cutler is because we gave up so much, I'd never seen him play (it's all Bears with me) and statistically the evidence wasn't there to support giving up so much. But both he and Orton are playing better for their new teams than they did previously, just as you should expect since they were both young, developing players, though I didn't figure we'd see it so soon.

 

Let me say now we're seeing media/posters bashing Lovie/Angelo for not developing Orton or Cedric, which is stupid to me because Cedric needed a wake up call that only canning him would provide and Orton was developed. Kyle's numbers were great before the injury, in his first season as the anointed starer, and after some healing he finished the season with nearly a 100 QB rating game at Houston. If anything, Lovie should be given credit for developing Kyle but yet still realizing that Cutler was ahead in development (waaay more starts in recent years) and that our window on the defensive talent we've put in place is running out of time.

 

 

No, Talkbears posters are absolutely not the media following sheep you see elsewhere; I asked my question just in general because it's been all over. As soon as we traded for Jay it was like a lot of people wanted to rewrite history and I'm going "Where is this coming from? They weren't talking like this last year." It's still way too early to start calling Orton a "franchise" QB or to say he's as good as Cutler, yet I also think it should be clear now that having lumped him in with our past failures at QB or saying he's just a placeholder was something that should make the naysayers stop an question themsleves. Are you watching the games or just listening to the radio call in shows?

 

 

OK i get it you really like Orton. Orton was not good in the pocket, he has never shown that he can move around the pocket week in and week out and make plays on the move. I would be willing to bet if you gave Rex Groosman the time Orton is getting in Denver he would look good or better then he did in Chicago. Im not saying Orton is or was a bum. What i will say is Orton was never going to get it done with the talent the Bears have in place on the Offensive side of the ball. I dont care what anyone says that is a fact. Orton has the tools to play well with a great Oline and great WR's. Do we have that in Chicago, sad to say but no. Our oline is a bit of a patch job and our WR's are getting better and better everyday but not as good as the Den WR's. I will say that Brandon Marshall is making Orton look pretty good too. If he keeps his nose clean this season and keeps playing the way he is he is going to get paid. With a WR like BM Orton can make some bad throws and he will come up with the catch, just the like the TD pass 2 days ago.

 

 

 

[nfoligno]

Benson is looking good w/ Cincy, but at the same time, I still think it is very questionable whether he would have ever developed for us as he has for Cincy.

 

You have often talked about how a player can do well w/ one team, but how that does not mean he would do well anywhere. You have talked about how a player drafted by one team can be a bust, but if he were drafted by another team, he could be a boom. I would also point to Kyle Orton, a more recent Bear example. He is having a hell of a season so far w/ Denver. Do you believe his numbers would be close if he were our QB?

 

IMHO, there are several reasons why Benson is playing far better for Cincy than he ever did for us. You mentioned one.

 

- Cincy's offense is built better for him. Cincy, as you mention, has a road grading OL. Even if our OL was better than it was, I would argue Benson was never an ideal fit. We play (or try to) a more athletic, finesse style blocking scheme. We use a drop step blocking scheme rather than a power, bull rush blocking scheme. We try to use leverage and create holes. Cincy just tries to maul the men in front, and that simply sets up better for a power runner like Benson. So, beside the fact that their OL is simply better, I would say their style better fits him also. Thus, while he is looking good for them, it does not mean he would have ever looked good for us.

 

- As others have mentioned, Benson never seemed fully committed. He was, IMHO, that typical player who dominated in college, but just never realized or understood how much more it takes to do the same in the NFL. Some players simply have the pure talent and ability to dominate in college w/o ever putting in the extra time. In the NFL though, everyone has talent, and if you want to dominate, you have to put in the extra. Benson just never seemed to get that, and it was not until his release that he understood. He thought the team was just holding him back, but not only the release, but going so long w/o a team showing any interest was the ego check I think he needed.

 

- Benson is mentally soft. I have said this before, but IMHO, most players who come out of that Texas program are. I have no idea what the problem w/ that program is, but the examples are simply too many to ignore. High talent, but soft mental makeup lead to many players who simply fail to live up to expectations. Anyway, regardless who is to blame, Benson felt he was the enemy in his own locker room. He felt the players were agaisnt him, and rather than step up and change their minds, he went into a shell. In Cincy, Benson said it himself. Things were instantly different. Players accepted him from day one and he just had a new home. In his mind, he went from playing w/ a bunch of guys who disliked him, to playing w/ a family. Simply put, you play harder for family than you do for players who don't like you.

 

You can look at Benson playing well today and say we should have never cut him, and yes, I realize you said it was a mistake then. But I would simply argue his current solid play is something we likely would have never seen if he were still on the team.

 

Regarding the Benson talk, I said it was a mistake to let him go. The reason he underperformed with the Bears was diverse, and started with sharing time with TJ, but in his last year it resulted from the fact that the OL was atrocious...something that has only seen a bandaid applied. Lo and behold, Benson goes to Cincy, gets behind a road-grader OL, and he's busting out stats.

 

[jason]

I was huge Benson supporter, as I thought as most experts stated; that he was the most NFL ready back to come out of college when he was drafted. Lo and behold, we were wrong. He wasn't ready. He wasn't ready to grow up. He wasn't ready to train. He definately wasn't ready to be a professional.

 

In reading an article last night, I found what I believe is the truth. Here's the rub for me "People who know him insist he changed after his release and that the Bears got his attention by firing him. But it was other clubs passing on him, they say, that really shook him up. In fact, it was nearly four months before he landed a job, and then only because Cincinnati was running out of healthy backs." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12352707 I think most of us truly believe he never got it here. Whether it was the coaches not getting to him or him not getting tp himself. the ultimate responsibility was his. He simply did not do it.

 

I'll go as far to say it was Benson on his appearance alone. Look at him as a Bear and he looked soft. Look at him now and he looks chisled. It shows he's actually working for his paycheck. If I have to guess, we are going to see his demands in the offseason. I am a fan of Benson's ability and running style, but I'll have a hard time forgetting what he cost us.

 

In a nutshell, I couldn't disagree more.

 

 

I think that I wasn't complete enough in my original post. Obviously the dude had/has some issues between the shoulders, but I honestly believe he's one of those fragile superstars who have been pampered their entire lives, and when things aren't perfect for them, with great family/friends/teammates/coaches, they buckle. With the coaches and offensive line, not to mention the Thomas Jones preference from other players, he buckled.

 

Maybe now he's a stronger person mentally. It just bugs me that the Bears got burned yet again.

[jason]

Benson is looking good w/ Cincy, but at the same time, I still think it is very questionable whether he would have ever developed for us as he has for Cincy.

 

You have often talked about how a player can do well w/ one team, but how that does not mean he would do well anywhere. You have talked about how a player drafted by one team can be a bust, but if he were drafted by another team, he could be a boom. I would also point to Kyle Orton, a more recent Bear example. He is having a hell of a season so far w/ Denver. Do you believe his numbers would be close if he were our QB?

 

Yes, those are my beliefs. And, no. Orton would be doing worse, because the WRs are younger, the holes are tighter (alllriiiight), and the OL worse.

 

IMHO, there are several reasons why Benson is playing far better for Cincy than he ever did for us. You mentioned one.

 

- Cincy's offense is built better for him. Cincy, as you mention, has a road grading OL. Even if our OL was better than it was, I would argue Benson was never an ideal fit. We play (or try to) a more athletic, finesse style blocking scheme. We use a drop step blocking scheme rather than a power, bull rush blocking scheme. We try to use leverage and create holes. Cincy just tries to maul the men in front, and that simply sets up better for a power runner like Benson. So, beside the fact that their OL is simply better, I would say their style better fits him also. Thus, while he is looking good for them, it does not mean he would have ever looked good for us.

Agreed. That's why I didn't like the Benson pick when it was made. I didn't think the pieces fit. But once they drafted him, I figured the Bears front office would do a better job of building an OL that could take advantage of Benson's style. Didn't happen.

 

- As others have mentioned, Benson never seemed fully committed. He was, IMHO, that typical player who dominated in college, but just never realized or understood how much more it takes to do the same in the NFL. Some players simply have the pure talent and ability to dominate in college w/o ever putting in the extra time. In the NFL though, everyone has talent, and if you want to dominate, you have to put in the extra. Benson just never seemed to get that, and it was not until his release that he understood. He thought the team was just holding him back, but not only the release, but going so long w/o a team showing any interest was the ego check I think he needed.

 

The ego check was needed, but if the Bears actually had an OL that fit his style (i.e. the Cincy OL), then it may have never been needed. More on this in a second...

 

- Benson is mentally soft. I have said this before, but IMHO, most players who come out of that Texas program are. I have no idea what the problem w/ that program is, but the examples are simply too many to ignore. High talent, but soft mental makeup lead to many players who simply fail to live up to expectations. Anyway, regardless who is to blame, Benson felt he was the enemy in his own locker room. He felt the players were agaisnt him, and rather than step up and change their minds, he went into a shell. In Cincy, Benson said it himself. Things were instantly different. Players accepted him from day one and he just had a new home. In his mind, he went from playing w/ a bunch of guys who disliked him, to playing w/ a family. Simply put, you play harder for family than you do for players who don't like you.

 

Agreed on everything. And my comments about weak-minded, pampered superstars support this idea. He didn't excel immediately in Chicago, wasn't the best player immediately in Chicago, and it hurt his fragile psyche.

 

You can look at Benson playing well today and say we should have never cut him, and yes, I realize you said it was a mistake then. But I would simply argue his current solid play is something we likely would have never seen if he were still on the team.

 

You're probably right, but I would have much rather seen the Bears draft the OL to support him, than draft another high RB who, despite a great rookie season, is struggling behind an OL that is, once again, not that great. But of course, with you, I'm preaching to the choir on the OL thing.

[adam]

Benson looks like a completely different back. He has speed that I have never seen before. On his TD run, he was stopped in the backfield and busted out for 25+ yards outrunning everyone on the field. In Chicago, he would just run into the backs of the OL.

 

Could it be Turner?

[nfoligno]

You're probably right, but I would have much rather seen the Bears draft the OL to support him, than draft another high RB who, despite a great rookie season, is struggling behind an OL that is, once again, not that great. But of course, with you, I'm preaching to the choir on the OL thing.

 

No question about that. You and I have screamed to build the OL for some time.

 

I think I understand your position. Correct me if I am wrong, but it isn't so much that you think Benson would have ever exceled in Chicago, but more just talking in general about how it sucks that a player, who we drafted, we were not able to get the most out of.

 

Yes, I agree it was a mistake to not build the OL that better suit him. Our OL was well suited for TJ, but not for Benson. W/ that said, even if we had tried to build the OL, I still do not think Benson would have done well due to the mental aspect. From all reports, his attitude has changed more than anything else, and that has carried over to his play on the field.

 

As far as that aspect goes, I go back and forth on how much to blame the staff. On one hand, I want to say the coaches run the team, and could have/should have done more to step in and quash the crap inside the locker room. On the other hand, at the end of the day, we are talking about adult men and you just can only do so much to force players to like one another.

[nfoligno]

No, I don't think it is. I think it is simply a matter of a player that had an attitude change that affected everything. As others have said, he looks chisled now. He is in the best shape since entering the game, and a big part of that is his new attitude. He has comitted himself now as he never did before, and worked hard in the offseason, where as when he was a Bear, he was partying on boats in the offseason.

 

Sometimes a player simply has to move on after his first team before he can realize what it takes to make it in the NFL, and IMHO, that is the case here.

 

Benson looks like a completely different back. He has speed that I have never seen before. On his TD run, he was stopped in the backfield and busted out for 25+ yards outrunning everyone on the field. In Chicago, he would just run into the backs of the OL.

 

Could it be Turner?

 

[AZ54]

When JA cut Benson part of the logic was his affect on the locker room. The guy had never earned any respect with his teammates here. That was part of what he had to build during that critical offseason along with the other aspects. I don't recall any players being upset at losing Ced, it was much more don't let the door hit you on the way out. Football is a team sport and regardless of talent guys have to fit in enough to bring cohesion on the field. For all his talent why has T.O. been cut so many times? I think Ced's issues with is teammates fell in the same category.

 

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

The Broncos aren't this good. They will falter eventually but there in a crappy division outside of Sandiego. If they beat them Monday there pretty much a lock for the playoffs. I just don't think they will be a 13-3 or a 12-4 team.