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We ned to sit some players


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Lovie needs to sit some players at the start of a game for a couple of series or a half. Omaliye,Forte,Harris for example. Lovie is their coach first, not friend first, who cares what they think.You cannot tell me Vasher did not want to prove something after being benched, and he did with a little luck but I know he was pumped when he was sent in. It lights a fire under the substitute and the player being sat,when he returnes, believe that. I want Lovie to get more fierce, like we do when we watch the game and get a little heated. Not Ditka style but more then he has. Another thing,I hate our blitzing. It's always everybody on the line rushing a straight line to the qb,which leaves no room in the middle for our lbs because it's clogged.I've been watching other teams blitz with the tackles pushing a little outside at an angle, making the gaurds leave the middle open for a linebacker or 2 to come in untouched. I hate when we TRY to blitz and just seeing a traffic jam. The only success we have, is blitzing from the outside with one of our db's, but we don't do it enough. A blitz usually works when someone comes in untouched. We need to do a better job at this. I HATE THE WAY WE BLITZ IT'S PISSING ME OFF. I would like to know what our percentage is of sacks when we blitz compared to the rest of the nfl.

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I've got no problem with that...

 

Lovie needs to sit some players at the start of a game for a couple of series or a half. Omaliye,Forte,Harris for example. Lovie is their coach first, not friend first, who cares what they think.You cannot tell me Vasher did not want to prove something after being benched, and he did with a little luck but I know he was pumped when he was sent in. It lights a fire under the substitute and the player being sat,when he returnes, believe that. I want Lovie to get more fierce, like we do when we watch the game and get a little heated. Not Ditka style but more then he has. Another thing,I hate our blitzing. It's always everybody on the line rushing a straight line to the qb,which leaves no room in the middle for our lbs because it's clogged.I've been watching other teams blitz with the tackles pushing a little outside at an angle, making the gaurds leave the middle open for a linebacker or 2 to come in untouched. I hate when we TRY to blitz and just seeing a traffic jam. The only success we have, is blitzing from the outside with one of our db's, but we don't do it enough. A blitz usually works when someone comes in untouched. We need to do a better job at this. I HATE THE WAY WE BLITZ IT'S PISSING ME OFF. I would like to know what our percentage is of sacks when we blitz compared to the rest of the nfl.

 

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The poster here that reported on the Bears demeanor on the sideline was very upsetting...I wonder if this team cares about winning?

 

It was me. And I'm not sure all care. I'm nearly positive that Omaliye doesn't. Others probably care, but it's not high on the priority list. A few desperately care, and they want to win above all else. I got the final impression from Olsen. I'm positive he hates losing.

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This is something that has really bugged me for a while. Accountability.

 

I read an article today where Lovie seems to be defending any player a reporter asks about. On one hand, some might argue a coach should hold back and keep the finger pointing for the film room. On the other hand, I think sometimes you do need to call players out. Sometimes, players simply need to feel the heat. Lovie seems to always defend the players, and I just question whether or not that does a good job of holding players accountable.

 

You watch around the league, and other coaches will call out and bench of a player for multiple fumbles. Other coaches will have the head of the OL on a platter when they get so torched. Other coaches will simply hold players accountable. Lovie is more a coach who puts his arm around a player and says, "its okay. I am sure you tried your best". That may work for some players, but when it doesn't, you need to do more, and I just do not believe Lovie is doing enough to hold players accountable.

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This is something that has really bugged me for a while. Accountability.

 

I read an article today where Lovie seems to be defending any player a reporter asks about. On one hand, some might argue a coach should hold back and keep the finger pointing for the film room. On the other hand, I think sometimes you do need to call players out. Sometimes, players simply need to feel the heat. Lovie seems to always defend the players, and I just question whether or not that does a good job of holding players accountable.

 

You watch around the league, and other coaches will call out and bench of a player for multiple fumbles. Other coaches will have the head of the OL on a platter when they get so torched. Other coaches will simply hold players accountable. Lovie is more a coach who puts his arm around a player and says, "its okay. I am sure you tried your best". That may work for some players, but when it doesn't, you need to do more, and I just do not believe Lovie is doing enough to hold players accountable.

Exactly,When other teams mess up I'm always seeing the head coach rip into the other coaches face, whether it be O.line,D.line, special teams coach etc. Because when the other coaches hear it from the head coach,chit usually gets done, or gets passed down to the players. Players and coaches are NOT afraid of Lovie. Even in his post game interviews he never really blames a player or gets pissed. Professional sports is not what it used to be. Nowadays if you loose,you still can be happy,because you still go to your million dollar home,have sex,don't worry about bills,etc.

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So true. So sad for us.

 

Exactly,When other teams mess up I'm always seeing the head coach rip into the other coaches face, whether it be O.line,D.line, special teams coach etc. Because when the other coaches hear it from the head coach,chit usually gets done, or gets passed down to the players. Players and coaches are NOT afraid of Lovie. Even in his post game interviews he never really blames a player or gets pissed. Professional sports is not what it used to be. Nowadays if you loose,you still can be happy,because you still go to your million dollar home,have sex,don't worry about bills,etc.

 

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The poster here that reported on the Bears demeanor on the sideline was very upsetting...I wonder if this team cares about winning?

I realize what was said about sideline demeanor, but I've read Ogunleye's blog, I've seen Alex Brown's quotes and I don't buy into the fact that the Bears don't care about winning. They've had a ton of injuries to there defense this season and still are playing pretty solid defensively.

 

Has it been dominating, no, but we don't have a dominating pass-rush and have had no continuity in the LB corps so I think all things considering everything has gone better than expected.

 

Bowman is getting better, Tillman looks good, Manning is improving, Aflava is young, Payne stinks, but in general I've seen no leader on this team look dead.

 

Briggs, Peanut, Ogunleye and Brown would be the four guys I'd call the current leaders on the defensive side of the ball and all have always impressed me with there professionalism.

 

On the offensive side, no one could possibly say that Cutler doesn't care and he's our offensive leader.

 

So I think any talk of our team not caring is pretty inaccurate, imo. Not to mention, I don't think you can make a whole lot of inferences from what you read from one game in any given season from the sidelines. We aren't in the clubhouse, we aren't at the practices and as a whole there is absolutely no way that Angelo or Lovie would put up with guys not-caring.

 

Lovie cares, the front office cares, and the Bears players by and large care. Obviously they care about there pay too, but these guys want to win and anyone saying any different at this point is being completely ridiculous.

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Exactly,When other teams mess up I'm always seeing the head coach rip into the other coaches face, whether it be O.line,D.line, special teams coach etc. Because when the other coaches hear it from the head coach,chit usually gets done, or gets passed down to the players. Players and coaches are NOT afraid of Lovie. Even in his post game interviews he never really blames a player or gets pissed. Professional sports is not what it used to be. Nowadays if you loose,you still can be happy,because you still go to your million dollar home,have sex,don't worry about bills,etc.

 

 

Well, I would argue that some of this gets thrown Angelo's way. A good NFL coach instinctively feels heat when things aren't right. For the few that don't, they have GMs who hold them accountable. Lovie is apparently one of those coaches who doesn't instinctively feel the heat but Angelo doesn't appear to be putting any heat on Lovie, so if Lovie doesn't feel any heat, he's not likely to put it on the players. In turn, the problem can multiply. Players stop feeling the heat to perform better or up to their capabilities because the bar is not set high enough. I had a boss years ago who, no matter how well I did would pound into my head that I had it in me to do better and owed it to me and everyone around me to do better. I have always maintained that Lovie Smith is a soft coach. He instinctively finds ways to lose pivotal games and this team is merely taking on his personality. It's not that he's a bad coach, I just don't think he has the make-up to be a great HC. His defense, as wounded as we are is ranked 7th in the NFL. What concerns me is that situations like the no huddle against the Falcons get away from him and he just seems to let it snowball and get worse until we've given up a touchdown. A great HC would have called a timeout right away and regrouped but not Lovie, he just watched it happen and gave us all that lithium stare he's so good at.

 

Truth is that this football team lacks discipline, focus and can't sustain it's intensity. It has nothing to do with lack of talent and everything top do with lack of preparation. Time for some good old fashioned heat to be applied to Lovie's ass. You listening Jerry?

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Well, I would argue that some of this gets thrown Angelo's way. A good NFL coach instinctively feels heat when things aren't right. For the few that don't, they have GMs who hold them accountable. Lovie is apparently one of those coaches who doesn't instinctively feel the heat but Angelo doesn't appear to be putting any heat on Lovie, so if Lovie doesn't feel any heat, he's not likely to put it on the players. In turn, the problem can multiply. Players stop feeling the heat to perform better or up to their capabilities because the bar is not set high enough. I had a boss years ago who, no matter how well I did would pound into my head that I had it in me to do better and owed it to me and everyone around me to do better. I have always maintained that Lovie Smith is a soft coach. He instinctively finds ways to lose pivotal games and this team is merely taking on his personality. It's not that he's a bad coach, I just don't think he has the make-up to be a great HC. His defense, as wounded as we are is ranked 7th in the NFL. What concerns me is that situations like the no huddle against the Falcons get away from him and he just seems to let it snowball and get worse until we've given up a touchdown. A great HC would have called a timeout right away and regrouped but not Lovie, he just watched it happen and gave us all that lithium stare he's so good at.

 

Truth is that this football team lacks discipline, focus and can't sustain it's intensity. It has nothing to do with lack of talent and everything top do with lack of preparation. Time for some good old fashioned heat to be applied to Lovie's ass. You listening Jerry?

If you don't think Lovie's feeling heat, than I think your mistaken as to why Lovie has came in and took over the playcalling duties.

 

Angelo's job is safe. He brought the team a franchise QB and has put them in a position to be a contender every season the past few years. The Bears have had injuries and other issues prevent them from taking the next step but at the end of the day Lovie knows damn well that if he doesn't get this team into the playoffs (and possibly farther...ie a post-season win) that there is a good chance he gets the boot.

 

I know the org tends to be cheap when it comes to paying coaches not to coach, but when you have a QB like Cutler and with the moves the org has made lately, the reality is on the wall and this is a different Chicago Bears franchise and I'd be shocked if Lovie isn't held accountable if the team fails to reach the mark management believes they should reach.

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Well, I would argue that some of this gets thrown Angelo's way. A good NFL coach instinctively feels heat when things aren't right. For the few that don't, they have GMs who hold them accountable. Lovie is apparently one of those coaches who doesn't instinctively feel the heat but Angelo doesn't appear to be putting any heat on Lovie, so if Lovie doesn't feel any heat, he's not likely to put it on the players. In turn, the problem can multiply. Players stop feeling the heat to perform better or up to their capabilities because the bar is not set high enough. I had a boss years ago who, no matter how well I did would pound into my head that I had it in me to do better and owed it to me and everyone around me to do better. I have always maintained that Lovie Smith is a soft coach. He instinctively finds ways to lose pivotal games and this team is merely taking on his personality. It's not that he's a bad coach, I just don't think he has the make-up to be a great HC. His defense, as wounded as we are is ranked 7th in the NFL. What concerns me is that situations like the no huddle against the Falcons get away from him and he just seems to let it snowball and get worse until we've given up a touchdown. A great HC would have called a timeout right away and regrouped but not Lovie, he just watched it happen and gave us all that lithium stare he's so good at.

 

Truth is that this football team lacks discipline, focus and can't sustain it's intensity. It has nothing to do with lack of talent and everything top do with lack of preparation. Time for some good old fashioned heat to be applied to Lovie's ass. You listening Jerry?

You talk about the no-huddle situation. The Falcons made an in-game adjustment and it worked shortly (for a bit longer than we'd have liked, yes, but we also have had 3 starters at MLB this year). The Bears than countered and did a pretty good job limiting the no-huddle the rest of the way.

 

So this year I've seen a coaching staff that has actually adjusted very well and a defense that you might say is overachieving as it has played pretty damn good against some good offenses (GB, Atlanta, Pittsburgh).

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Well, I would argue that some of this gets thrown Angelo's way. A good NFL coach instinctively feels heat when things aren't right. For the few that don't, they have GMs who hold them accountable. Lovie is apparently one of those coaches who doesn't instinctively feel the heat but Angelo doesn't appear to be putting any heat on Lovie, so if Lovie doesn't feel any heat, he's not likely to put it on the players. In turn, the problem can multiply. Players stop feeling the heat to perform better or up to their capabilities because the bar is not set high enough. I had a boss years ago who, no matter how well I did would pound into my head that I had it in me to do better and owed it to me and everyone around me to do better. I have always maintained that Lovie Smith is a soft coach. He instinctively finds ways to lose pivotal games and this team is merely taking on his personality. It's not that he's a bad coach, I just don't think he has the make-up to be a great HC. His defense, as wounded as we are is ranked 7th in the NFL. What concerns me is that situations like the no huddle against the Falcons get away from him and he just seems to let it snowball and get worse until we've given up a touchdown. A great HC would have called a timeout right away and regrouped but not Lovie, he just watched it happen and gave us all that lithium stare he's so good at.

 

Truth is that this football team lacks discipline, focus and can't sustain it's intensity. It has nothing to do with lack of talent and everything top do with lack of preparation. Time for some good old fashioned heat to be applied to Lovie's ass. You listening Jerry?

OK, Jerry and Lovie get mad together. You got Cutler on offense, Briggs on defense, let's GO.We are pissed,but if we loose to Cincy I believe things will start stirring up.

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We're seemed to be doing a better job adjusting, but a far poorer job preparing...

 

You talk about the no-huddle situation. The Falcons made an in-game adjustment and it worked shortly (for a bit longer than we'd have liked, yes, but we also have had 3 starters at MLB this year). The Bears than countered and did a pretty good job limiting the no-huddle the rest of the way.

 

So this year I've seen a coaching staff that has actually adjusted very well and a defense that you might say is overachieving as it has played pretty damn good against some good offenses (GB, Atlanta, Pittsburgh).

 

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You talk about the no-huddle situation. The Falcons made an in-game adjustment and it worked shortly (for a bit longer than we'd have liked, yes, but we also have had 3 starters at MLB this year). The Bears than countered and did a pretty good job limiting the no-huddle the rest of the way.

 

So this year I've seen a coaching staff that has actually adjusted very well and a defense that you might say is overachieving as it has played pretty damn good against some good offenses (GB, Atlanta, Pittsburgh).

 

It took a halftime adjustment to figure out what to do about the no huddle so NO, we did not handle it. It cost us the game. Now, I will agree that we did play pretty good defense against them which is even more maddening when you ask how we could let them use that no huddle so effectively. That was coaching, plain and simple.

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It took a halftime adjustment to figure out what to do about the no huddle so NO, we did not handle it. It cost us the game. Now, I will agree that we did play pretty good defense against them which is even more maddening when you ask how we could let them use that no huddle so effectively. That was coaching, plain and simple.

The game was not lost because of the defense. If you want to talk about the defense folding at the end of the game, maybe, but not from the first half. The team adjusted accordingly and did an nice job to it.

 

The game was lost when the offense failed to score in the red zone on three seperate ocassions, failed to run, failed to pass/run block, made stupid offensive penalties, etc.

 

The last group that should take the blame for this loss was the defense, a defense that performed pretty damn good against one of the league's better offensive attacks.

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Overall, probably. But they folded in hurry up mode badly. You simply cannot put 2 DB's on 3 WR's... That cost us a TD. Then, later Gonzalez isn't touched at the LOS, and run free to the end zone for another TD. I'm not sure what cuased the Turner TD run, but it was his only good run of the night in the only location that stopping the run would have been nice.

 

I'm not saying the D failed, but they are as much responsible for the loss. No pick or fumble was returned for a TD. Atlanta's TD's were socred on the D.

 

 

 

The game was not lost because of the defense. If you want to talk about the defense folding at the end of the game, maybe, but not from the first half. The team adjusted accordingly and did an nice job to it.

 

The game was lost when the offense failed to score in the red zone on three seperate ocassions, failed to run, failed to pass/run block, made stupid offensive penalties, etc.

 

The last group that should take the blame for this loss was the defense, a defense that performed pretty damn good against one of the league's better offensive attacks.

 

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I realize what was said about sideline demeanor, but I've read Ogunleye's blog, I've seen Alex Brown's quotes and I don't buy into the fact that the Bears don't care about winning. They've had a ton of injuries to there defense this season and still are playing pretty solid defensively.

 

Has it been dominating, no, but we don't have a dominating pass-rush and have had no continuity in the LB corps so I think all things considering everything has gone better than expected.

 

Bowman is getting better, Tillman looks good, Manning is improving, Aflava is young, Payne stinks, but in general I've seen no leader on this team look dead.

 

Briggs, Peanut, Ogunleye and Brown would be the four guys I'd call the current leaders on the defensive side of the ball and all have always impressed me with there professionalism.

 

On the offensive side, no one could possibly say that Cutler doesn't care and he's our offensive leader.

 

So I think any talk of our team not caring is pretty inaccurate, imo. Not to mention, I don't think you can make a whole lot of inferences from what you read from one game in any given season from the sidelines. We aren't in the clubhouse, we aren't at the practices and as a whole there is absolutely no way that Angelo or Lovie would put up with guys not-caring.

 

Lovie cares, the front office cares, and the Bears players by and large care. Obviously they care about there pay too, but these guys want to win and anyone saying any different at this point is being completely ridiculous.

 

For the sake of argument, I'll let everyone know that I didn't see much of Briggs, Ogunleye, Brown, or Cutler on the sideline where I was at. They were mostly about 20 yards or more away, and I couldn't judge much from their character. Tillman, however, I saw numerous times...and there is no denying his demeanor; he looked defeated and distracted.

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People are reading way too much into the nuances of how guys act on the sideline. Tillman looked defeated and distracted? Based on which expert? I appreciate all feedback from everyone on the board, especially first hand from the games like Jason gave. It is interesting to note but if you aren't there talking with Tillman then you really don't know what he's thinking or talking about. Here's a thought: Maybe he wants to B-slap Matt Forte for not holding onto the football on two consecutive plays at the goal line? For sure that affected my demeanor!

 

One more thought on accountability. When Beanie Wells fumbled twice in a Cardinals road game, including one near the goal line, he was pulled from the game by Whisenhunt. Afterwards he was given a football by his teammates and told that he wasn't to put it down until he got home. He arrived in Phoenix and got off the plane carrying that same football. Message sent. We need some of that.

 

This thread started with a post about sitting some players. I think there is some merit to it but let's do that based on performance on the field not on the bench.

 

I am still surprised at the continued bad sentiment about our defense. I think they are doing a good job with very little elite talent. I do agree that Lovie or someone should have called a timeout to get setup against the no-huddle offense they ran. However, Lovie freely admitted he was wrong on that at the post-game conference. Roach was totally lost on those play calls but he's inexperienced and overall I think he's doing pretty good at a position he rarely practiced before two injuries put him there. Hunter is better at the play calls so I am quite certain Hillenmeyer will be back in the middle for us if he's healthy this week.

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People are reading way too much into the nuances of how guys act on the sideline. Tillman looked defeated and distracted? Based on which expert? I appreciate all feedback from everyone on the board, especially first hand from the games like Jason gave. It is interesting to note but if you aren't there talking with Tillman then you really don't know what he's thinking or talking about. Here's a thought: Maybe he wants to B-slap Matt Forte for not holding onto the football on two consecutive plays at the goal line? For sure that affected my demeanor!

 

One more thought on accountability. When Beanie Wells fumbled twice in a Cardinals road game, including one near the goal line, he was pulled from the game by Whisenhunt. Afterwards he was given a football by his teammates and told that he wasn't to put it down until he got home. He arrived in Phoenix and got off the plane carrying that same football. Message sent. We need some of that.

 

This thread started with a post about sitting some players. I think there is some merit to it but let's do that based on performance on the field not on the bench.

 

I am still surprised at the continued bad sentiment about our defense. I think they are doing a good job with very little elite talent. I do agree that Lovie or someone should have called a timeout to get setup against the no-huddle offense they ran. However, Lovie freely admitted he was wrong on that at the post-game conference. Roach was totally lost on those play calls but he's inexperienced and overall I think he's doing pretty good at a position he rarely practiced before two injuries put him there. Hunter is better at the play calls so I am quite certain Hillenmeyer will be back in the middle for us if he's healthy this week.

 

It's not people getting down on our defense. It's people, including me, getting down on Lovie Smith. There is a BIG difference. I can forgive a player mistake, that's all part of it, UNTIL that player continues to make the same mistake over and over again. Lovie Smith is consistently getting outcoached. Those of us that watched the game could see that Atlanta was going no huddle, why on earth did it AGAIN, take Lovie so long to adjust? He said going into halftime that they had to stop the no huddle. Well, no shit Sherlock but you needed to do that 10 minutes ago before they scored on your ass. The knock on Lovie is simple. He is just too slow to react. By the time he figured out what to do against the no huddle, the damage was done. If nothing else, call a timeout and regroup. He's certainly had to waste timeouts for less than that before.

 

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It's not people getting down on our defense. It's people, including me, getting down on Lovie Smith. There is a BIG difference. I can forgive a player mistake, that's all part of it, UNTIL that player continues to make the same mistake over and over again. Lovie Smith is consistently getting outcoached. Those of us that watched the game could see that Atlanta was going no huddle, why on earth did it AGAIN, take Lovie so long to adjust? He said going into halftime that they had to stop the no huddle. Well, no shit Sherlock but you needed to do that 10 minutes ago before they scored on your ass. The knock on Lovie is simple. He is just too slow to react. By the time he figured out what to do against the no huddle, the damage was done. If nothing else, call a timeout and regroup. He's certainly had to waste timeouts for less than that before.

 

Ex-friggin-actly. If Lovie were to play Connect 4, he'd start trying to counter moves after his competitor already had three lined up with empty spots on each side.

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C'mon AZ...let's take things for what they are. Jason never stated he's a clynical psychologist. He simply made mention of observations he personally saw while being at the game. Not every observation on earth needs verification by a mob of PHD's, expert witnesses, psychics and telepaths.

 

No one really knows what Tillman's thoughts were but Tillman, no matter what he decides or not decides to tell anyone. Usually in life, you can only go by what you observe. Jason put his 2 cents in. Maybe a different attendee saw it differently. We won't know unless someone steps up and states it so. But discounting an observation based on things the observer could not have knowedge of is just silliness.

 

However, on the accountability issue, you are spot on.

 

People are reading way too much into the nuances of how guys act on the sideline. Tillman looked defeated and distracted? Based on which expert? I appreciate all feedback from everyone on the board, especially first hand from the games like Jason gave. It is interesting to note but if you aren't there talking with Tillman then you really don't know what he's thinking or talking about. Here's a thought: Maybe he wants to B-slap Matt Forte for not holding onto the football on two consecutive plays at the goal line? For sure that affected my demeanor!

 

One more thought on accountability. When Beanie Wells fumbled twice in a Cardinals road game, including one near the goal line, he was pulled from the game by Whisenhunt. Afterwards he was given a football by his teammates and told that he wasn't to put it down until he got home. He arrived in Phoenix and got off the plane carrying that same football. Message sent. We need some of that.

 

This thread started with a post about sitting some players. I think there is some merit to it but let's do that based on performance on the field not on the bench.

 

I am still surprised at the continued bad sentiment about our defense. I think they are doing a good job with very little elite talent. I do agree that Lovie or someone should have called a timeout to get setup against the no-huddle offense they ran. However, Lovie freely admitted he was wrong on that at the post-game conference. Roach was totally lost on those play calls but he's inexperienced and overall I think he's doing pretty good at a position he rarely practiced before two injuries put him there. Hunter is better at the play calls so I am quite certain Hillenmeyer will be back in the middle for us if he's healthy this week.

 

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Always seems a day late and a dollar short...

 

It's not people getting down on our defense. It's people, including me, getting down on Lovie Smith. There is a BIG difference. I can forgive a player mistake, that's all part of it, UNTIL that player continues to make the same mistake over and over again. Lovie Smith is consistently getting outcoached. Those of us that watched the game could see that Atlanta was going no huddle, why on earth did it AGAIN, take Lovie so long to adjust? He said going into halftime that they had to stop the no huddle. Well, no shit Sherlock but you needed to do that 10 minutes ago before they scored on your ass. The knock on Lovie is simple. He is just too slow to react. By the time he figured out what to do against the no huddle, the damage was done. If nothing else, call a timeout and regroup. He's certainly had to waste timeouts for less than that before.

 

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