The Emperor Has No Clothes...

[madlithuanian]

We were called out on national tv yet again. THis embarassing loss holds all the info we need to know about the state of Chicago pro football...

 

1. We have nothing on the lines. It's all won and lost in the trenches and we have nothing. The O Line is a joke, and for all the hoopla around Marinelli, hte D line is a joke. Jason, nfo and a ton of other posters have been clammoring for O Line in the draft to the point where suggestions were made that every single pick be the line. That idea is not silly, it's a virtual must now...

2. We miss Urlacher. If not just for his speed and knowledge, his fire is sorely needed out on that field. Briggs is great, but definitley not a leader. We have a leaderless D right now and it's lackluster as all hell.

3. Cutler can't do it w/ smoke and mirrors. It's nice what we've seen from Devin and the WR corps...but it's not good enough. We still need to get a top flight WR. A difference maker. Just look at what a good line and a playmaker have done for old Neckbeard?

4. The coaching staff must ALL be relieved of duty at season's end assuming we continue on at .500 football. Dan Hampton said it best, these guys are playing checkers when everyone else is playing chess. I've been a harsh critic of Smith and his regime for a while now, and I will be unrelenting in my desire to see him ousted. This team will not get over the next hurdle with him in the staff. Just like Benson needed a change of scenery, so does Smith. It's time to go. Jerry, go to Virginia and say we were duped. The SB run was a nice fluke, but if we want to win, we need to make a BIG change now, or we may never get Jay a good chance. We need to re-build. The only player that is safe should be Cutler. I have no problem trying to get some picks for Url, Briggs, Hester...anyone. We have too many gaps, and we need to get rid of something to get something. We aren't a player or 2 away, we're 10 linemen away...

 

We all love our Bears. But with this current staff, we will continue to be a national joke with our animatronic head coach telling us the running game is OK because we just saw it 4 weeks ago beat up a hapless Detroit team where the RB got caught from behind on a long run any other NFL RB would've taken to the bank... Smith told us to trust him, I didn't and I still don't. We have been duped by this fruad of an NFL coach. I like giving him crap due to his lack of any semblance of human emotion. But the fact is, whether it is Spock, Kirk or McCoy...all I know is that a HC must get results. And he ain't gettin' 'em. And it's been 3 years straight... This is simply unacceptable.

 

This is not a good team. It's not playoff calibur. Not even close. Again, we aren't a player or 2 away...this isn't something a little fix here or a former #1 DE there can fix. This thing needs to be blown up.

 

I'm pissed off. I'm embarassed. And I'm going to play Madden later tonight in my own little fantasyland to get this awful taste out of my mouth.

 

Denny Green was right all those years ago... With a slight twist, the Bears are what we feared them to be... Average at best.

[jason]

We all love our Bears. But with this current staff, we will continue to be a national joke with our animatronic head coach telling us the running game is OK because we just saw it 4 weeks ago beat up a hapless Detroit team where the RB got caught from behind on a long run any other NFL RB would've taken to the bank... Smith told us to trust him, I didn't and I still don't. We have been duped by this fruad of an NFL coach. I like giving him crap due to his lack of any semblance of human emotion. But the fact is, whether it is Spock, Kirk or McCoy...all I know is that a HC must get results. And he ain't gettin' 'em. And it's been 3 years straight... This is simply unacceptable.

 

Emotionally, Lovie is Spock.

Coaching, he's ensign Johnson.

[chitownman]

I could not agree with you more Mad Man. This team has returned to being an embarrassment versus a very proud franchise that was the founding franchise of the NFL. I think we need to completely clean house from the very top through the entire team. No one should be safe and new ownership may be able to inject some life into this team. No one should be happy with the inconsistency of this team and we're lucky we are not 2-4 or worse 0-6 at this point. I do not blame Culter for his efforts at attempting to do something however, without the proper protection and supporting team around him, even Montana in his hey day or McMahon would look at bad as Cutler is looking.

[madlithuanian]

Yep!

 

Definiltey a redshirt!

 

Emotionally, Lovie is Spock.

Coaching, he's ensign Johnson.

 

[madlithuanian]

I hear ya! But let's give Cutler some grief too...he made bad decisions despite the lack of help around him. We need him to play smarter.

 

I could not agree with you more Mad Man. This team has returned to being an embarrassment versus a very proud franchise that was the founding franchise of the NFL. I think we need to completely clean house from the very top through the entire team. No one should be safe and new ownership may be able to inject some life into this team. No one should be happy with the inconsistency of this team and we're lucky we are not 2-4 or worse 0-6 at this point. I do not blame Culter for his efforts at attempting to do something however, without the proper protection and supporting team around him, even Montana in his hey day or McMahon would look at bad as Cutler is looking.

 

[DaBearSox]

I hear ya! But let's give Cutler some grief too...he made bad decisions despite the lack of help around him. We need him to play smarter.

 

Totally agree...

 

Its amazing the pass this guy gets for not ever winning anything in his career. almost 2 ints/game is not acceptable.

 

At this point the donks were the winners of the trade plain and simple.

[madlithuanian]

Yeah, so far, Denver got the better end of the deal. But, fortunately, it's a marathon and not a sprint. I still think when it's all said and done, both teams will be happy with it evenly.

 

Totally agree...

 

Its amazing the pass this guy gets for not ever winning anything in his career. almost 2 ints/game is not acceptable.

 

At this point the donks were the winners of the trade plain and simple.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I hear ya! But let's give Cutler some grief too...he made bad decisions despite the lack of help around him. We need him to play smarter.

I don't even see how you could evaluate Cutler's performance this week. We were down 5 Td's and we had 2 guys in his face all game.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Yeah, so far, Denver got the better end of the deal. But, fortunately, it's a marathon and not a sprint. I still think when it's all said and done, both teams will be happy with it evenly.

I would not go back and re-do the deal. We would not be a better team with Orton than Cutler. We'd be even worse cause there is really no support system for our QB. Our oline is the worst line in the NFL.

[nfoligno]

1. We have nothing on the lines. It's all won and lost in the trenches and we have nothing. The O Line is a joke, and for all the hoopla around Marinelli, hte D line is a joke. Jason, nfo and a ton of other posters have been clammoring for O Line in the draft to the point where suggestions were made that every single pick be the line. That idea is not silly, it's a virtual must now...

 

For me, one of the saddest indictments of our OL this year is when I look at Garza. Frankly, Garza has been my whipping boy. I simply have never been impressed. This year, playing on this like, he looks like an all-pro (relative). From what I have seen, it isn't even just that we need a tweak here or a minor change there. I think most all agree Beekman should step in for Omiyale, but that isn't even going to scratch the surface. This OL needs a major over-haul, and it has to start w/ Harry, the matador trainer. Pace doesn't belong in the NFL. Omiyale will have to prove he should even be a backup. Williams needs to earn his starting job. This year we have 3 new starters on the OL. Next year, I hate to say it, but we could/should have another 3 new starters, and unfortunately, they could all be from the same positions.

 

2. We miss Urlacher. If not just for his speed and knowledge, his fire is sorely needed out on that field. Briggs is great, but definitley not a leader. We have a leaderless D right now and it's lackluster as all hell.

 

I never understood the hate. No, Urlacher was not the same player he once was, but he was still damn good. He is between 20 and 30 pounds heavier than the rest of our LBs, and yet still faster than any. As you said, w/ Urlacher in the middle, there were still holes (thanks Lovie for your cover 2) but the holes were simply smaller than they are now.

 

With regard to leadership, that is another area I have harped on for some time. I don't believe we have had a leader on defense since Mike Brown, and even w/ Brown, you would have to go back to pre-injury days, as he didn't have the confidence to step in as a leader after he started to deal w/ injuries. We have some who are considered "lead by example" but no true field generals. Not even Briggs.

 

3. Cutler can't do it w/ smoke and mirrors. It's nice what we've seen from Devin and the WR corps...but it's not good enough. We still need to get a top flight WR. A difference maker. Just look at what a good line and a playmaker have done for old Neckbeard?

 

I disagree here. To me, beyond simply Cutler needing to play smarter, I think the whole thing comes down to OL. You mention Orton, but (a) Orton now plays behind an OL that gives him loads of time in the pocket and ( Orton looked good early on, when Marshall was not even starting. I like our WRs and do not believe we need to try and add a playmaker. I think we should simply build the OL, buying Cutler time in the pocket, and allow the talent we have to develop.

 

4. The coaching staff must ALL be relieved of duty at season's end assuming we continue on at .500 football. Dan Hampton said it best, these guys are playing checkers when everyone else is playing chess. That is classic. I've been a harsh critic of Smith and his regime for a while now, and I will be unrelenting in my desire to see him ousted. This team will not get over the next hurdle with him in the staff. Just like Benson needed a change of scenery, so does Smith. It's time to go. Jerry, go to Virginia and say we were duped. The SB run was a nice fluke, but if we want to win, we need to make a BIG change now, or we may never get Jay a good chance. We need to re-build. The only player that is safe should be Cutler. I have no problem trying to get some picks for Url, Briggs, Hester...anyone. We have too many gaps, and we need to get rid of something to get something. We aren't a player or 2 away, we're 10 linemen away...

 

No argument here. I have to some extent defended Turner, but it would not hurt my feelings AT ALL if he got the pink slip. No coach should right now be safe, and that especially means Lovie. While Lovie is the least likely to go due to his contract, he is also the most deserving. It is the coaches job to set the tone and prepare the players, neither of which has looked good. And Lovie took over the defesive playcalling, which has been dreadful.

 

We all love our Bears. But with this current staff, we will continue to be a national joke with our animatronic head coach telling us the running game is OK because we just saw it 4 weeks ago beat up a hapless Detroit team where the RB got caught from behind on a long run any other NFL RB would've taken to the bank... Smith told us to trust him, I didn't and I still don't. We have been duped by this fruad of an NFL coach. I like giving him crap due to his lack of any semblance of human emotion. But the fact is, whether it is Spock, Kirk or McCoy...all I know is that a HC must get results. And he ain't gettin' 'em. And it's been 3 years straight... This is simply unacceptable.

 

This is not a good team. It's not playoff calibur. Not even close. Again, we aren't a player or 2 away...this isn't something a little fix here or a former #1 DE there can fix. This thing needs to be blown up.

 

Yea, people always mention a coach like Landry to show a coach doesn't have to be emotional, but when the team shows zero emotion, whether the HC shows fire or ice, it still has to go on him. Results are all that matter, and this team has gone downhill since Lovie said, "trust me".

 

There is an old joke about never trusting someone who says trust me, especially when its a lawyer. I think we can replace lawyer with coach.

 

 

[madlithuanian]

Ha! I hear you on Garza! I thought he was the weakest link, now he appears our biggest strength! The O line is suc a disaster...I wouldn't be shocked if a new regime came in and we see 5 new starters! That's a big "if" though...

 

Yeah, the team has lacked a real leader since Mike Brown's departure. But, I think Urlacher oozes confidence that no one else on the team has. It's still by example as you mention, but it's a little more. An x factor. Briggs doesn't have it. It's been his to take, and he's not taken it. He's not a leader. Urlacher isn't a great one, especially compared to some other greats, but he's quite excellent considering certain alternatives.

 

I follow what you're saying about Cutler and the O-line. And I feel that that is the #1 priority. But I do think a legit WR is somewhere on the list. Probably after D line and secondary...

 

You last statment about lawyers is just spot on! And I think it does translate into "coaches" in football-speak!

 

For me, one of the saddest indictments of our OL this year is when I look at Garza. Frankly, Garza has been my whipping boy. I simply have never been impressed. This year, playing on this like, he looks like an all-pro (relative). From what I have seen, it isn't even just that we need a tweak here or a minor change there. I think most all agree Beekman should step in for Omiyale, but that isn't even going to scratch the surface. This OL needs a major over-haul, and it has to start w/ Harry, the matador trainer. Pace doesn't belong in the NFL. Omiyale will have to prove he should even be a backup. Williams needs to earn his starting job. This year we have 3 new starters on the OL. Next year, I hate to say it, but we could/should have another 3 new starters, and unfortunately, they could all be from the same positions.

 

I never understood the hate. No, Urlacher was not the same player he once was, but he was still damn good. He is between 20 and 30 pounds heavier than the rest of our LBs, and yet still faster than any. As you said, w/ Urlacher in the middle, there were still holes (thanks Lovie for your cover 2) but the holes were simply smaller than they are now.

 

With regard to leadership, that is another area I have harped on for some time. I don't believe we have had a leader on defense since Mike Brown, and even w/ Brown, you would have to go back to pre-injury days, as he didn't have the confidence to step in as a leader after he started to deal w/ injuries. We have some who are considered "lead by example" but no true field generals. Not even Briggs.

 

I disagree here. To me, beyond simply Cutler needing to play smarter, I think the whole thing comes down to OL. You mention Orton, but (a) Orton now plays behind an OL that gives him loads of time in the pocket and ( Orton looked good early on, when Marshall was not even starting. I like our WRs and do not believe we need to try and add a playmaker. I think we should simply build the OL, buying Cutler time in the pocket, and allow the talent we have to develop.

 

No argument here. I have to some extent defended Turner, but it would not hurt my feelings AT ALL if he got the pink slip. No coach should right now be safe, and that especially means Lovie. While Lovie is the least likely to go due to his contract, he is also the most deserving. It is the coaches job to set the tone and prepare the players, neither of which has looked good. And Lovie took over the defesive playcalling, which has been dreadful.

 

Yea, people always mention a coach like Landry to show a coach doesn't have to be emotional, but when the team shows zero emotion, whether the HC shows fire or ice, it still has to go on him. Results are all that matter, and this team has gone downhill since Lovie said, "trust me".

 

There is an old joke about never trusting someone who says trust me, especially when its a lawyer. I think we can replace lawyer with coach.

 

[nfoligno]

Yeah, the team has lacked a real leader since Mike Brown's departure. But, I think Urlacher oozes confidence that no one else on the team has. It's still by example as you mention, but it's a little more. An x factor. Briggs doesn't have it. It's been his to take, and he's not taken it. He's not a leader. Urlacher isn't a great one, especially compared to some other greats, but he's quite excellent considering certain alternatives.

 

I love Urlacher, and defended him when others attacked, but I just do not believe he is a leader. He was a very good player, and that alone elevated the play of others. Urlacher was able to cover so much space and do so much, others were better in position to do more. I am not taking away from him, but he simply isn't the sort of leader I feel our defense needs. Partially I feel we need a field general because I also feel we lack a general/leader on the sideline. If you go into battle and the general back and headquarters sucks, you better hope you have a smart as hell captain on the field w/ you. If you have a smart as hell general, that over the top leader on the field is not as key, as the plan of attack is likely better devised. But if the guy writing up the plan of attack sucks, you need a field general to compensate. I feel we lack both.

 

I follow what you're saying about Cutler and the O-line. And I feel that that is the #1 priority. But I do think a legit WR is somewhere on the list. Probably after D line and secondary...

 

Understand, it isn't that I feel we are so loaded that we couldn't use a stud, but you have to prioritize, and when I make my list, WR is simply way down there. I would likely have OT, OG, DT, DE, FS, CB, SS and LB ahead of WR. Adding a WR is a luxury. It is buying a bar of chocolate when you don't have money to for milk for the baby.

 

Hester has developed as a WR more than I expected. Bennett has developed and played well. Knox has developed far more and far faster than most any expected. Beyond those three WRs, we also have potential in Aromashadu and Iglesias. Now, I am not saying any are going to be Fitzgerald, but I do think we have solid weapons, and if we gave our franchise QB time, he could do quite a lot w/ those weapons. The key is the OL, not the weapons. Hell, right now, I think RB may be a far greater need than WR.

 

 

[madlithuanian]

I agree. But compared to Briggs, Urlacher is George S. Patton. We do need better. We need another Mike Brown. But I'll settle for Url until we can get the whole thing going in the right direction again. I love you analogy! We are up s%$# creek w/o a paddle.

 

I think we're on the same page regarding needs. I think we still need it before we become a great team, but it's low priority since we have to build the foundation first. Let's get the milk now...we can get the chocolate bar in a few years.

 

I'm dumbfounded by what to make of Forte. I think you were far more critical of him last season. And it appears you were on to something. We all know the putrid OL is not helping the issue. But something indeed seems off about the young man's game right now. Maybe injury is lingering, maybe it's the old sophomore slump, maybe he's lost confidence...I don't know. But I'm not ready to cut bait unless we get a great offer. He's one of the expendables in my opinion.

 

I love Urlacher, and defended him when others attacked, but I just do not believe he is a leader. He was a very good player, and that alone elevated the play of others. Urlacher was able to cover so much space and do so much, others were better in position to do more. I am not taking away from him, but he simply isn't the sort of leader I feel our defense needs. Partially I feel we need a field general because I also feel we lack a general/leader on the sideline. If you go into battle and the general back and headquarters sucks, you better hope you have a smart as hell captain on the field w/ you. If you have a smart as hell general, that over the top leader on the field is not as key, as the plan of attack is likely better devised. But if the guy writing up the plan of attack sucks, you need a field general to compensate. I feel we lack both.

 

Understand, it isn't that I feel we are so loaded that we couldn't use a stud, but you have to prioritize, and when I make my list, WR is simply way down there. I would likely have OT, OG, DT, DE, FS, CB, SS and LB ahead of WR. Adding a WR is a luxury. It is buying a bar of chocolate when you don't have money to for milk for the baby.

 

Hester has developed as a WR more than I expected. Bennett has developed and played well. Knox has developed far more and far faster than most any expected. Beyond those three WRs, we also have potential in Aromashadu and Iglesias. Now, I am not saying any are going to be Fitzgerald, but I do think we have solid weapons, and if we gave our franchise QB time, he could do quite a lot w/ those weapons. The key is the OL, not the weapons. Hell, right now, I think RB may be a far greater need than WR.

 

[nfoligno]

I agree. But compared to Briggs, Urlacher is George S. Patton. We do need better. We need another Mike Brown. But I'll settle for Url until we can get the whole thing going in the right direction again. I love you analogy! We are up s%$# creek w/o a paddle.

 

Its all relative. I actually think Briggs is a decent leader, but again, not the sort we need. He is good, and from what I read, a pretty good natured joker and good for chemistry. He is also a hell of a player, but I just question how much his play or leadership affects those around him. Urlachers play affects others. What I want though is a guy who's play and leadership affect others. Sure, I would happily take Urlacher right now, but we are talking about the future, and for me, that is a future need.

 

I think we're on the same page regarding needs. I think we still need it before we become a great team, but it's low priority since we have to build the foundation first. Let's get the milk now...we can get the chocolate bar in a few years.

 

Well, I would make two points. One, by the time the foundation is set, those young WRs we currently have could develop into something far better. Two, it could take time to build the foundation, so we may have a couple years before looking for flavored milk.

 

I'm dumbfounded by what to make of Forte. I think you were far more critical of him last season. And it appears you were on to something. We all know the putrid OL is not helping the issue. But something indeed seems off about the young man's game right now. Maybe injury is lingering, maybe it's the old sophomore slump, maybe he's lost confidence...I don't know. But I'm not ready to cut bait unless we get a great offer. He's one of the expendables in my opinion.

 

I am not sure how critical I was of him last year. I was less high on him in the draft, but more due to liking other players more, rather than disliking Forte. Forte impressed me last year w/ his pass protection and receiving as much, or more, than his running. The one thing that concerned me last year was his upright running, which I have heard others question. This year though, I have no clue what the issue is, but I have come to think it is more than just the OL. When AP and Wolfe have gotten carries, they simply look better. And while some thing he could be hurt, i question if that explains the poor vision he seems to have this year. There is something just wrong this year w/ him. I have no idea what it is. I just hope the staff can figure it out.

[AZ54]

We can't fix everything now but we can fire Harry Hiestand. Losing him can't possibly make our Oline play worse. We can also put Beekman in for Omiyale. Omiyale may yet turn out to be a good player for us as he's still learning a new position but I really think he AT A MINIMUM needs a sideline breather so he can just watch and learn for a bit. If Beekman plays well don't take him out. If Beekman has some struggles give Omiyale a chance to earn it back after a few games. Do something.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

We can't fix everything now but we can fire Harry Hiestand. Losing him can't possibly make our Oline play worse. We can also put Beekman in for Omiyale. Omiyale may yet turn out to be a good player for us as he's still learning a new position but I really think he AT A MINIMUM needs a sideline breather so he can just watch and learn for a bit. If Beekman plays well don't take him out. If Beekman has some struggles give Omiyale a chance to earn it back after a few games. Do something.

Agreed on Hiestand and Beekman. Place Beekman back at LG and let him settle in for a couple weeks, then re-assess the situation. If his presence starts to make a difference, the rest of the OL can be evaluated. Right now, we don't know if Pace can play or not because of how bad Omiyale is. If Pace proves to be done, I'd insert Schaffer at RT and move Williams to LT so we can assess needs for next year.

[bowlingtwig]

I would not go back and re-do the deal. We would not be a better team with Orton than Cutler. We'd be even worse cause there is really no support system for our QB. Our oline is the worst line in the NFL.

If Orton is still with us I am 100% certain he would have been injured by now. The only thing saving Cutler right now is his mobility.

[BigDaddy]

The most UNFORGIVABLE sin Lovie Smith committed Sunday was letting Benson run up and down the field on us. If he had any balls at all, he would have said ya know what, we may lose this game but Benson isn't going to be the reason why and put 8 men in the box just like Houston did. What's worse was he did nothing to stop it. Yeah, we have some bad coordinators and assistants but frankly, I'm done chirping about this assistant or that assistant needing to go. Let's face it, Lovie Smith is the one responsible for this mess. I don't want to hear about lack of talent because he has had input with every single player Angelo has either drafted or brought in as FA. We cannot continue a assistant coach/coordinator carousel here. How many changes are we gonna make before we realize the guy whose hiring these stiffs needs to go? Lovie Smith is too rigid in his approach to this defense. Rivera tweaked it and made it more flexible and less predictable. The most glaring deficiency Smith has is inability to adjust in game. Adjusting after halftime is fine unless of course the shit has already hit the fan and you are 2 minutes into the first qtr. You have got to be more flexible to be successful as a HC. The media guys and fans alike have given Smith every excuse in the book. Now the latest is the money we would owe him. That money is a drop in the bucket for a Billion dollar franchise, especially the founding franchise. Lovie Smith IS the Rex Grossman of Hcs. We can keep giving him one more year but all that will happen is we will do down the line what we should have done this year, fire him. The only problem with doing it klater rather than sooner is the available HC talent pool sitting out there right now.

[Connorbear]

If Orton is still with us I am 100% certain he would have been injured by now. The only thing saving Cutler right now is his mobility.

True dat.

 

Peace

[Connorbear]

Agreed on Hiestand and Beekman. Place Beekman back at LG and let him settle in for a couple weeks, then re-assess the situation. If his presence starts to make a difference, the rest of the OL can be evaluated. Right now, we don't know if Pace can play or not because of how bad Omiyale is. If Pace proves to be done, I'd insert Schaffer at RT and move Williams to LT so we can assess needs for next year.

Agreed. If it goes down hill. get Williams to LT and let him settle in. I think Pace may be done and we are just prolonging the inevitable.

 

Peace

[nfoligno]

Disagree w/ the idea we don't know if Pace can play or not. Yes, having Omiyale next to him isn't helping his cause, but (a) Pace has look freaking awful all by himself and ( Pace is supposed to be the sort of player that benefits the OG, not the other way around.

 

Pace has been getting killed on the edges. If it was just his getting beat inside, we MIGHT say Omiyale is supposed to help there, but Pace is getting his doors blown off on edge rush moves. He has also racking up quite a few penalties, which is a sure sign a player doesn't have it, as they are essentially having to cheat to compensate for inferior play.

 

With the understanding this is not going to happen, this is what I would do.

 

(1) Fire Harry. I think most agree with this. He has not developing anyone. Even Beekman I would question, as Beekman was viewed solely as a C backup and only got a look at OG due to injuries. Even then, it was obvious the staff didn't want to play Beekman at OG. Thus I just can't even credit them with the development he showed last year. While I understand we have not given Harry a lot to work with, that just is not enough of an excuse for just how bad the play of the OL over the years has been. He may be Turner's friend, but Babich was Lovie's BFF and he still was demoted.

 

(2) Insert Beekman for Omiyale. This is a no brainer everyone seems to agree on. Heck, I would even argue Beekman won the job in camp, but the staff handed Omiyale the start due solely to his contract.

 

(3) I would flip flop Pace and Williams. While I have no clue whether this would be good or not, I would do it for the following reasons.

 

(a) The only other team out there interested in Pace in the offseason was Baltimore, who felt he could play RT. Well, I trust their staff more than ours. Further, watching Pace, to me it seems like edge rushers are killing him, but he is looking better against power/bull rushers. While LDEs these days do have speed, they are not usually the fastest DEs on the team, and thus a move to RT may actually help him.

 

( IMHO, it is the opposite for Williams. I think Williams is getting blown up by power rush moves. Even when he is getting beaten on the edge, I think it is often because he is off-balance after the DEs first set him up w/ power rush moves. Williams, expecting a bull rush, starts to compensate, and then when the LDE takes an edge rush path, Williams is already committed to the power rush and gets beaten outside. Putting him on the left side, against faster but weaker DEs may benefit him. Also, I think the long term plan for Williams is at LT. That plan was put on hold after the team "thought" they added a pro bowl quality LT. That wasn't the case. So if we do not have a good LT, there is no reason to delay the development of our 1st round pick at the position the staff felt he was best suited for.

 

 

Agreed on Hiestand and Beekman. Place Beekman back at LG and let him settle in for a couple weeks, then re-assess the situation. If his presence starts to make a difference, the rest of the OL can be evaluated. Right now, we don't know if Pace can play or not because of how bad Omiyale is. If Pace proves to be done, I'd insert Schaffer at RT and move Williams to LT so we can assess needs for next year.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Agreed NFO. I'm on board for all of those things.

[bowlingtwig]

Agreed NFO. I'm on board for all of those things.

I agree completely as well. Another problem that I have noticed about Pace is that I have seen plenty of DE's just duck underneath of Pace because Pace is so tall and struggles to get down to there level. I agree with the switch because I ask myself one question. Can it really get any worse? Seriously?

[Lucky Luciano]

Disagree w/ the idea we don't know if Pace can play or not. Yes, having Omiyale next to him isn't helping his cause, but (a) Pace has look freaking awful all by himself and ( Pace is supposed to be the sort of player that benefits the OG, not the other way around.

 

Pace has been getting killed on the edges. If it was just his getting beat inside, we MIGHT say Omiyale is supposed to help there, but Pace is getting his doors blown off on edge rush moves. He has also racking up quite a few penalties, which is a sure sign a player doesn't have it, as they are essentially having to cheat to compensate for inferior play.

 

pass protection: this i don't totally agree with. pace has been getting beaten at times but what you suggest is he is getting consistently eaten up on the *edge which not true. he AND williams are 'looking' worse than the reality of the situation indicates because of the collapse of the interior pocket, stunts, overloading one side of the line, blitz's and quite frankly much of this is due to poor preparation, scheme and play calling. the same can be said of williams. yes at times williams is getting overpowered and pushed back but this is not consistent. the more serious problem is our TE's have been extremely poor at blocking and in my opinion this is giving the tackles some of the bad wrap they don't deserve. olson and davis don't have a clue out there and are responsible for complete whiffs of what SHOULD be their blocking assignments. they aren't even getting chip blocks right.

 

*when our tackles are moving the DE's out and around as is normal there is no place for our qb to step into. the left guard is getting pushed back 2 yds at the snap and our center is not far behind. so what is happening is a pincer move where the DE's are meeting our qb in the middle with him having no place to go except into the wash and pick his way through jumbo bodies.

 

With the understanding this is not going to happen, this is what I would do.

 

(2) Insert Beekman for Omiyale. This is a no brainer everyone seems to agree on. Heck, I would even argue Beekman won the job in camp, but the staff handed Omiyale the start due solely to his contract.

 

agree even if i'm not a great fan of beekman, frank is just brutal.

 

(3) I would flip flop Pace and Williams. While I have no clue whether this would be good or not, I would do it for the following reasons.

 

agree, i have no problem trying this out either. neither are having close to a stellar season so why not? you would have to keep in some protection plans so cutler doesn't get killed until you could see if williams can play on the left.

 

with all that said, we are still not improving our lines interior without the beekman move. i can't believe lovie has any say in how this works out as he is clueless about offense. so ramp it up turner!!

[nfoligno]

pass protection: this i don't totally agree with. pace has been getting beaten at times but what you suggest is he is getting consistently eaten up on the *edge which not true. he AND williams are 'looking' worse than the reality of the situation indicates because of the collapse of the interior pocket, stunts, overloading one side of the line, blitz's and quite frankly much of this is due to poor preparation, scheme and play calling. the same can be said of williams. yes at times williams is getting overpowered and pushed back but this is not consistent. the more serious problem is our TE's have been extremely poor at blocking and in my opinion this is giving the tackles some of the bad wrap they don't deserve. olson and davis don't have a clue out there and are responsible for complete whiffs of what SHOULD be their blocking assignments. they aren't even getting chip blocks right.

 

Sorry, but I just can't disagree more. It is not "just" blitzes and interior that is getting to Cutler. Pace and Williams are getting beaten pretty consistently. Undertand. That doesn't mean every down. Not even Omiyale gets abused every down. But Pace and Williams are getting beaten plenty enough for me to say consistently.

 

To make the point, have you noticed how, in several games now, there are times when our opponent is playing something close to a prevent, rushing only 3 down linemen, and blitzing zero, and yet they are still getting to Cutler. You often see this late in a half or late in a game. I saw it first in GB, but thought it was the 3-4 scheme. But then I watched this happen in the Seattle game, and again in the Cincy game. Even the commentators have harped on this. When an opponent rushes on 3, against our (minimum) 5, Cutler should have all day. But too many times he has not also been pressured, but 2 of the 3 have actually penetrated our front. That is flat out pathetic, and yes, our "bookends" are absolutely a part of this.

 

Omiyale has been the worst. No one is going to question that. But IMHO, Omiyale has at times taken the heat off Pace and Williams, who are also playing flat out awful, but they are getting less hate due to Omiyale.

 

Now, I will agree that our TEs, and I would add our backs, have looked awful also. Whether they are supposed to chip block the blitzer or help the OT, they are doing a weak job. That does for Forte as well, who I think has looked flat out bad in blitz pickup this year. But that does not excuse the OTs.

 

*when our tackles are moving the DE's out and around as is normal there is no place for our qb to step into. the left guard is getting pushed back 2 yds at the snap and our center is not far behind. so what is happening is a pincer move where the DE's are meeting our qb in the middle with him having no place to go except into the wash and pick his way through jumbo bodies.

 

But if the QB has to step up in the pocket, sorry, but that means the OTs did not do their job. The OTs are supposed to push the DEs wide (like we see always done w/ our DEs) but our OTs are not doing this. I agree that Cutler has no where to move up because of DTs penetrating (especially on Omiyale) but if the QB has to move up in the pocket, that in itself means the OT did not do his job. The is not supposed to allow the DE a path to the QB. He is supposed to push that edge rusher wide outside, but our OTs are not doing this. Our OTs are simply getting beaten on the edge, allowing the DEs a path the to QB, which is made worse by our interior getting beaten and Cutler having no where to step up in the pocket.

 

agree, i have no problem trying this out either. neither are having close to a stellar season so why not? you would have to keep in some protection plans so cutler doesn't get killed until you could see if williams can play on the left.

 

I just question whether Williams would actually be any worse than Pace. While I never agreed, I understood why we moved Williams to RT. The belief was we added a very good LT, and thus moving Williams "seemed" appropriate. Now, it simply appears Pace can no longer play LT, thus the reason for Williams to be on the right side simply is no longer valid.

 

with all that said, we are still not improving our lines interior without the beekman move. i can't believe lovie has any say in how this works out as he is clueless about offense. so ramp it up turner!!

 

I think both Lovie, and even Angelo, likely have a say here. Sorry, but every report provided had Beekman outplaying Omiyale in camp, and it wasn't even close. I question whether the OC would make the switch. The move to start Omiyale was about (a) contract and ( putting in the player who was viewed as having more long term upside. Both of those reasons are reasons the GM and coach usually are part of. The coordinator will usually simply go w/ the best available player if given a choice, but I think he was not given a choice. I think this is all Angelo/Lovie.