madlithuanian Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 If they knew how much you posted, they would fire you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 We'll agree to disagree on this one. There is no way in hell that 99% of the players want to win more than they want to get paid. It's the same in the other major sports. That's why you always see the mega-rich allstars who have not won a championship take a late career, lesser deal (or ignore their team allegiance) on a different team in hopes of winning a championship. I'd say about 25% want to win more than they want the money, lifestyle, and fame. The 99% may have been true decades ago, but not in today's world where even the scrubs make 3 million a year. So what is easier for the modern, greedy athlete? 1) Make a ton of money and play for a less demanding coach who won't bust your balls 2) Make a ton of money and play for a more demanding coach who calls you out for not earning your millions Seems like #1 is the obvious answer to me. Whoa, getting paid is the first priority, but 99% of them give a shit about winning too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Whoa, getting paid is the first priority, but 99% of them give a shit about winning too. The argument is over if they want to get paid or win more, not if they "give a shit about winning at all". I agree with Jason. I highly doubt guys cares about winning more then getting paid. Yeah, John St Clair loves winning over money, which is why he went to Cleveland for $3m per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGowan Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 In all honesty, I thought that the Bears should not have extended Lovie after the Super Bowl appearance. Why, you might ask? It was simple to me. You wait and see if he has another winning season afterwards, barring injuries to the major players(Urlacher,Harris,Briggs,Brown) in 2007. If they have a bad season, you get to pay less. If they have a good season, you pay more, but you are pretty sure you have a good coach. They failed in 2007 and IMO every year since. Now we're stuck with an overpaid coach who can't perform the duties required in his job description. Furthermore, fans are not jumping ship because of the hangover from the Cincinatti game, they're jumping ship because the Bears looked like a bad team playing a god awful team. When you can't score a TD in your first 3 red zone trips against the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL, Bears=Bad Offense. The Offensive line looked like swiss cheese rather than a brick wall-against the worst defense in the league. Last week was the most pathetic 24 point win ever. To put icing on the cake, the Browns scored a TD on their first and only red zone appearance. I honestly think that if Brady Quinn started that game the Bears might have lost. If the bears play like that against the Rams, they will lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Too bad we can't turn back the clock... I don't think fans are jumping the ship per se...I just think the weight of reality is starting to make istelf apparent, and Atlas is shrugging... It's hard to expect greatness when you see ineptness. In all honesty, I thought that the Bears should not have extended Lovie after the Super Bowl appearance. Why, you might ask? It was simple to me. You wait and see if he has another winning season afterwards, barring injuries to the major players(Urlacher,Harris,Briggs,Brown) in 2007. If they have a bad season, you get to pay less. If they have a good season, you pay more, but you are pretty sure you have a good coach. They failed in 2007 and IMO every year since. Now we're stuck with an overpaid coach who can't perform the duties required in his job description. Furthermore, fans are not jumping ship because of the hangover from the Cincinatti game, they're jumping ship because the Bears looked like a bad team playing a god awful team. When you can't score a TD in your first 3 red zone trips against the 32nd ranked defense in the NFL, Bears=Bad Offense. The Offensive line looked like swiss cheese rather than a brick wall-against the worst defense in the league. Last week was the most pathetic 24 point win ever. To put icing on the cake, the Browns scored a TD on their first and only red zone appearance. I honestly think that if Brady Quinn started that game the Bears might have lost. If the bears play like that against the Rams, they will lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtHomeBoy_2000 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 The most likely candidates for the 2010 Bears head coach in order: Lovie Smith Lovie Smith Lovie Smith I just don't see them firing him and owing 11 million while shelling out 6+ million per for guys like those on your list. It just isn't happening. We are stuck with Lovie no matter how much we want otherwise. ^^^^^^^^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I've actually heard a few rumblings that the name Shanny has been thrown around at Halas Hall. Who knows how realistic it is, but of all offers, I think its the job he'd be most interested in, with the exception of the Chargers job (where he could have a shot at sticking it to both the Raiders and Broncos twice a year). Dallas will probably come a calling too, but the reality is I don't see him working with Jerry Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtHomeBoy_2000 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I've actually heard a few rumblings that the name Shanny has been thrown around at Halas Hall. Who knows how realistic it is, but of all offers, I think its the job he'd be most interested in, with the exception of the Chargers job (where he could have a shot at sticking it to both the Raiders and Broncos twice a year). Dallas will probably come a calling too, but the reality is I don't see him working with Jerry Jones. Cutler and him seemed to get along pretty well. He's probably my first choice. I wonder if they could structer a deal where he gets less money the first two years (because of the Lovie deal) and then back load the deal. Pure hypothetical here: Mike Shanahan wants $6-7 million a year. He signs a 5 year deal. Years 1 and 2 earn him $1.5 million per, while years 3-5 earn him $10.67 million per. Yes, crazy numbers on the back end, but still averages out to $7 million a year over 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 While everyone talks about money, I think the top hurdle to our getting Shanny, if we fired Lovie obviously, is Angelo. Shanny, I believe, was both GM and HC in Denver, and I think any new team he considers would have to offer him similar. I have a hard time seeing Shanny accepting a HC job w/o authority in personnel as well. Dallas is not going to give him the GM title. Even if they did, as they did w/ Parcells, it would be just this side of a joke, as Jerry numerous times forced Parcells to make personnel moves he wasn't on board with. You mention the SD job, but I believe they have AJ Smith, or whatever the GMs name is, so there again, unless the team dumped both HC and GM, I am not sure Shanny goes there. I've actually heard a few rumblings that the name Shanny has been thrown around at Halas Hall. Who knows how realistic it is, but of all offers, I think its the job he'd be most interested in, with the exception of the Chargers job (where he could have a shot at sticking it to both the Raiders and Broncos twice a year). Dallas will probably come a calling too, but the reality is I don't see him working with Jerry Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Cutler and him seemed to get along pretty well. He's probably my first choice. I wonder if they could structer a deal where he gets less money the first two years (because of the Lovie deal) and then back load the deal. Pure hypothetical here: Mike Shanahan wants $6-7 million a year. He signs a 5 year deal. Years 1 and 2 earn him $1.5 million per, while years 3-5 earn him $10.67 million per. Yes, crazy numbers on the back end, but still averages out to $7 million a year over 5 years. Think of this. Tommie Harris makes ~7.5M per season in non-guaranteed pay. Thus far he's received half of that (8 games). By cutting him, the Bears would save 3.75M which would off-set 68% of Lovie's contract for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtHomeBoy_2000 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 While everyone talks about money, I think the top hurdle to our getting Shanny, if we fired Lovie obviously, is Angelo. Shanny, I believe, was both GM and HC in Denver, and I think any new team he considers would have to offer him similar. I have a hard time seeing Shanny accepting a HC job w/o authority in personnel as well. If you want to look at this from a pure money standpoint, if you want to fire Angelo and Lovie...wouldnt it make more sense to bring in Shanny to be the Bears GM and coach? You can let go two people and fill the void with one. PS: what's the going rate for a good GM these days? i know top line coaches are $5+ million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 While everyone talks about money, I think the top hurdle to our getting Shanny, if we fired Lovie obviously, is Angelo. Shanny, I believe, was both GM and HC in Denver, and I think any new team he considers would have to offer him similar. I have a hard time seeing Shanny accepting a HC job w/o authority in personnel as well. Dallas is not going to give him the GM title. Even if they did, as they did w/ Parcells, it would be just this side of a joke, as Jerry numerous times forced Parcells to make personnel moves he wasn't on board with. You mention the SD job, but I believe they have AJ Smith, or whatever the GMs name is, so there again, unless the team dumped both HC and GM, I am not sure Shanny goes there. I would not hire Shanny if he wants to run the whole show. He can be helpful in bringing in the GM if thats what it takes, but I'd prefer he work with Angelo and the two be a package duo. Let Shanny make the call on the offensive talent, Angelo make the call on the defensive talent and help Mike in that area. I have a few friends that are huge Bronco fans and I've always followed the Broncos as they are my favorite team in the AFC (loved Elway) and they've all insisted that Shanny went down-hill when he took over both duties and he ultimately couldn't handle it. I'm hoping that his year off he's thought about this and came to the same understanding that Holmgren did where you realize there is just no way you can do both jobs and be sucessful at both. In fact, most of the time you'll end up being sucessful at neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I don't know. I think Shanny will very much still believe he is capable of doing both jobs, as many coaches believe. I don't see the situation happening where Angelo and Shanny shared personnel duties. Remember, Angelo refused to hire his friend Saban when Saban wanted "some" control w/ regard to the roster. That is Angelo's domain, and he is not going to give it up. I would not hire Shanny if he wants to run the whole show. He can be helpful in bringing in the GM if thats what it takes, but I'd prefer he work with Angelo and the two be a package duo. Let Shanny make the call on the offensive talent, Angelo make the call on the defensive talent and help Mike in that area. I have a few friends that are huge Bronco fans and I've always followed the Broncos as they are my favorite team in the AFC (loved Elway) and they've all insisted that Shanny went down-hill when he took over both duties and he ultimately couldn't handle it. I'm hoping that his year off he's thought about this and came to the same understanding that Holmgren did where you realize there is just no way you can do both jobs and be sucessful at both. In fact, most of the time you'll end up being sucessful at neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Yep... I'm not sure any of the top tier guys come here w/ Angelo in place. Unless they "demote" him to defensive scout or something like they demoted Babich. While everyone talks about money, I think the top hurdle to our getting Shanny, if we fired Lovie obviously, is Angelo. Shanny, I believe, was both GM and HC in Denver, and I think any new team he considers would have to offer him similar. I have a hard time seeing Shanny accepting a HC job w/o authority in personnel as well. Dallas is not going to give him the GM title. Even if they did, as they did w/ Parcells, it would be just this side of a joke, as Jerry numerous times forced Parcells to make personnel moves he wasn't on board with. You mention the SD job, but I believe they have AJ Smith, or whatever the GMs name is, so there again, unless the team dumped both HC and GM, I am not sure Shanny goes there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Think of this. Tommie Harris makes ~7.5M per season in non-guaranteed pay. Thus far he's received half of that (8 games). By cutting him, the Bears would save 3.75M which would off-set 68% of Lovie's contract for next season. They have to pay him the rest of the salary for this year. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 They have to pay him the rest of the salary for this year. Peace Dang, didn't realize they got guaranteed part-way through the season. Do you know how many games into the season contracts become guaranteed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Day one. A players base salary for that season becomes guaranteed prior to the first game. I do not recall the specific day, but it is either prior to, or at the time of, the first game. Thus, if a player is on the 53 man roster for the first game of the season, his base salary becomes guaranteed. This is why some teams will cut a player prior to the first game, only to resign them by the 2nd game. By doing this, they risk losing the player, but if they can re-sign him, his contract is not guaranteed for the season, and I believe he is paid basically on a per game basis. Also, something that should be noted is, a big chunk of the money Tommie got was in the form of a roster bonus. That was something like $8m or more, and that too is already guaranteed. Dang, didn't realize they got guaranteed part-way through the season. Do you know how many games into the season contracts become guaranteed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Day one. A players base salary for that season becomes guaranteed prior to the first game. I do not recall the specific day, but it is either prior to, or at the time of, the first game. Thus, if a player is on the 53 man roster for the first game of the season, his base salary becomes guaranteed. This is why some teams will cut a player prior to the first game, only to resign them by the 2nd game. By doing this, they risk losing the player, but if they can re-sign him, his contract is not guaranteed for the season, and I believe he is paid basically on a per game basis. Also, something that should be noted is, a big chunk of the money Tommie got was in the form of a roster bonus. That was something like $8m or more, and that too is already guaranteed. NFO - thanks for the summary. I believe it is if you are on the roster for game 1. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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