FF Brother in Law Trade

[nfoligno]

I have to ask. If others disagree, then I apologize to the two owners, but this looks like what I have always heard called a brother-in-law trade. What do others think?

 

Andre Johnson (Hou - WR)

Steve Slaton (Hou - RB)

Beanie Wells (Ari - RB)

Bernard Berrian (Min - WR)

 

for

 

Steve BreastonP (Ari - WR)

Reggie Bush (NO - RB)

Brian WestbrookQ (Phi - RB)

Mario ManninghamP (NYG - WR)

 

[madlithuanian]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term...do you mean collusion?

 

To me, the trade looks to be really be Johnson for Westbrook. Advantage ot the guy getting Johnson. But I don't think it's a huge advantage.

 

In the league I play in,m which has a pretty substantial buy-in...we don't allow trades. Only free agent pick-ups. THis eliminates any possibility of that. Not to mention, it rarely occurs in the real NFL. It also makes managing the leage easier with no need to vote/raitfy/approve trades.

 

I have to ask. If others disagree, then I apologize to the two owners, but this looks like what I have always heard called a brother-in-law trade. What do others think?

 

Andre Johnson (Hou - WR)

Steve Slaton (Hou - RB)

Beanie Wells (Ari - RB)

Bernard Berrian (Min - WR)

 

for

 

Steve BreastonP (Ari - WR)

Reggie Bush (NO - RB)

Brian WestbrookQ (Phi - RB)

Mario ManninghamP (NYG - WR)

 

[flea]

If I was the top guy I'd not make that trade. This the money league?

[nfoligno]

Yea, the term is sort of like collusion. Basically, when one team is way down in the standings, they send most of their good players to a friend who owns another team.

 

I guess here is why I thought the deal iffy.

 

AJ is one of the top WRs in the game w/ over 150 points. Slaton can't run for crap, but is one of the top receiving backs in the game, and has 120 points. Berrian is a middle of the road WR w/ 75. Beannie Wells has minimal points, but basically just earned the playing time in Az and has begun to play a lot more.

 

Flip side of that. Breaston is about equal to Berrian. Westbrook has been injured, is still injured, and their rookie RB has looked good, and it is unlikely Westbrook ever returns to the role he once had. Westy has around 60 points. Bush has 75 points, and is neither a starting RB, nor a starting WR, for that team. Manningham has the most points w/ 100, but has been injured, and has not done much since week two.

 

When you trade for a WR like AJ, you have to give up some serious players. What serious players were given up to get a stud like AJ. Frankly, when I look at this trade, I don't see a single players given up that equals either AJ, nor even Slaton.

 

To me, this was a very one sided trade, giving up an elite WR, upper tier RB, RB on the rise, and a starting WR. To get this, you would expect big names in return, but players given up like Westbrook and Bush might be former names, but are really not much this year.

 

Again, if no one agrees, I will apologize and move on. I just found this deal very, very questionable.

 

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term...do you mean collusion?

 

To me, the trade looks to be really be Johnson for Westbrook. Advantage ot the guy getting Johnson. But I don't think it's a huge advantage.

 

In the league I play in,m which has a pretty substantial buy-in...we don't allow trades. Only free agent pick-ups. THis eliminates any possibility of that. Not to mention, it rarely occurs in the real NFL. It also makes managing the leage easier with no need to vote/raitfy/approve trades.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

I have to ask. If others disagree, then I apologize to the two owners, but this looks like what I have always heard called a brother-in-law trade. What do others think?

 

Andre Johnson (Hou - WR)

Steve Slaton (Hou - RB)

Beanie Wells (Ari - RB)

Bernard Berrian (Min - WR)

 

for

 

Steve BreastonP (Ari - WR)

Reggie Bush (NO - RB)

Brian WestbrookQ (Phi - RB)

Mario ManninghamP (NYG - WR)

 

Thats horrible... Andre is better than breaston/bush/westbrook/mann combined

[flea]

i see where your coming from NFO & I'd agree

[DrunkBomber]

I like the way you tried to word it to make it sound the way you wanted but if you look at both of the roster involved:

 

Team A All depth, , only 1 stud at WR/RB (Welker) and a lot of guys worthy of #2 spots and only room for some of them to play every week.

 

Team B Top heavy with no depth and not much of a bench or flexibility with match ups to move guys around

 

AJ- stud, no question

 

Westbrook- monster in ppc leagues who was injured but was supposed to be back this week and will be back next week. When healthy is more valuable than AJ alone and is on a team making a playoff run

 

Bush- solid flex player in a ppc league and second most valuable RB involved in the trade at this point

 

Slaton- on trading block and was being offered to everyone in league because he picked up moats. Was and is currently benched and really had no impact on me wanting the trade. Him being thrown in made no difference to me

 

Beanie Wells- seriously?

 

Manningham- definite starting caliber WR with very good numbers so far

 

Breaston- 2nd most valuable WR in trade and is a on the verge of becoming a stud because of Boldin situation. Look at today.

 

Berrian- decent wr, without question not as good as two above him

 

youre trying to suede people with the way you word everything but the trade was very fair. You dont make trades based on what the guy has done to that point you make them based on what they are poised to do after. I basically gave up all my depth at RB and 2 starting WRs for 1 player with hopes I can get anything out of Slaton even though he cant be depended on going forward.

 

Yahoo projected the players I gave away to outscore what I got in return also. This is a very deep league with three flex positions and there isnt anything in FA to fill rosters. I shouldnt have to go through and explain why guys like Breaton and Westbrook are valuable for the second half of the season but if you would like to I can.

[DrunkBomber]

From pay league through talkbears last year when 7 idiots vetoed my trade of TO for Royal and Derrick Ward. (Royal alone outscored TO and Ward was 1000 yard rusher with a 200 yard game during playoff time. Heres what people LIKE you said:

 

I voted against the trade because TO is much more valuable than Eddie Royal and Derrick Ward. If I used your "criteria" that Royal has outscored TO, then I should be able to trade Chris Johnson (who splits time with LenDale White, just like Ward and Jacobs) for LT and then some. Also, you should have to give up more than TO because the points don't add up. Makes sense, huh?

 

You can point to my Edwards trade, and say it wasn't fair. That's your opinion and you may be right, but there is a difference between Edwards and TO. The Browns entire offense has completely sucked all year, while TO didn't do anything last week, but his team is doing fairly well on offense, so it would be somewhat safe to assume that he'll still post some decent numbers in the future. He's also the clear-cut #1 WR on his team, with no real # 2 WR (although Witten could count as that) whereas Royal is in no way the #1 WR, ahead of Brandon Marshall.

 

All you do is whine and you have no legs to stand on with this trade. If you break it down its very even with the potential of what I gave away being more valuable. Look what Westbrook did last year AFTER he came back from an injury. Every year there is some idiot who thinks he is a fantasy football guru and thinks his opinion on players is reality. I dont make trades based on what YOU think the players are worth. Yahoo, thinks the trade favored the other team but obviously youre not on their staff so what do they know. Accusing someone of cheating is pretty serious and thats what youre doing. So let me sum it up by saying, you dont know shit, shut up and if you dont like it you had a week to veto it (which not one person did)

 

So if anyone (IN THE LEAGUE) would like me to very easily explain why this trade made sense for both teams I will but if you are going to try and suede people with bullshit than maybe include things like the number of flex players in the league, who was on the rosters of the teams already and stuff like that. Both teams are better after the trade (which is absolutely why you are crying) and both teams hammered their opponents this week in the league.

[DrunkBomber]

Lol, I also just noticed you are the guru I hammered the shit out of this week. This trade went through days ago, its ironic you waited until after you were losing to cry. Looks like I could have had AJ on the bench and still beat you. So to recap, the only person who complained about the trade was the person who lost their matchup to the team and he waited days until AFTER he lost to say anything. WAY TO GO!

 

Also, other team involved in trade has almost 200 points and is winning by 92 points behind a big game from Breaston and solid numbers from Manningham.

[nfoligno]

Dude, don't be an ass. I am not whining or crying. I posted this well prior to my team pulling a Bear-esq flop. I said from the beginning I was not trying to insult, and if others felt the deal was solid, I would simply apologize. Thus far, I have yet to find anyone who felt the deal was anything but one sided.

 

I don't think I am a FF guru. FAR from it. No need for the idiot comments or anything else. I simply posed a question. Your sensitivity in the matter makes it all the more seem question in my eyes.

 

Lol, I also just noticed you are the guru I hammered the shit out of this week. This trade went through days ago, its ironic you waited until after you were losing to cry. Looks like I could have had AJ on the bench and still beat you. So to recap, the only person who complained about the trade was the person who lost their matchup to the team and he waited days until AFTER he lost to say anything. WAY TO GO!

 

Also, other team involved in trade has almost 200 points and is winning by 92 points behind a big game from Breaston and solid numbers from Manningham.

 

[nfoligno]

Look, if you traded away a bunch of your depth, or good players, for AJ, that would be one thing. But you didn't simply give away a bunch of players in order to get one stud. You got more in return.

 

From other responses, this deal was not as even as you would like to make it out to be. I was not skewing this any which way. AJ is a total stud, and usually to get a player like that, it simply seems like you have to give up more. You gave up some good players, I am not questioning that, but at the same time, you got more than just AJ in return.

 

Look, the deal went through. I am not crying about it. I thought, and still think, the deal is a bit one sided, and yes, I do feel you far and away got the better of the deal. Correct me if I am wrong, but you made this trade w/ a friend of yours who has 2 wins and is likely out of the hunt. That in itself sends up red flags. That you got a stud, along w/ solid starters like Slaton and Berrian, and a potential player in Wells, simply sent up red flags IMHO.

 

You think it was a fair trade. Fine. I think otherwise, and from responses, so do others. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Deal went through, and it is done.

 

I like the way you tried to word it to make it sound the way you wanted but if you look at both of the roster involved:

 

Team A All depth, , only 1 stud at WR/RB (Welker) and a lot of guys worthy of #2 spots and only room for some of them to play every week.

 

Team B Top heavy with no depth and not much of a bench or flexibility with match ups to move guys around

 

AJ- stud, no question

 

Westbrook- monster in ppc leagues who was injured but was supposed to be back this week and will be back next week. When healthy is more valuable than AJ alone and is on a team making a playoff run

 

Bush- solid flex player in a ppc league and second most valuable RB involved in the trade at this point

 

Slaton- on trading block and was being offered to everyone in league because he picked up moats. Was and is currently benched and really had no impact on me wanting the trade. Him being thrown in made no difference to me

 

Beanie Wells- seriously?

 

Manningham- definite starting caliber WR with very good numbers so far

 

Breaston- 2nd most valuable WR in trade and is a on the verge of becoming a stud because of Boldin situation. Look at today.

 

Berrian- decent wr, without question not as good as two above him

 

youre trying to suede people with the way you word everything but the trade was very fair. You dont make trades based on what the guy has done to that point you make them based on what they are poised to do after. I basically gave up all my depth at RB and 2 starting WRs for 1 player with hopes I can get anything out of Slaton even though he cant be depended on going forward.

 

Yahoo projected the players I gave away to outscore what I got in return also. This is a very deep league with three flex positions and there isnt anything in FA to fill rosters. I shouldnt have to go through and explain why guys like Breaton and Westbrook are valuable for the second half of the season but if you would like to I can.

 

[DrunkBomber]

Look, if you traded away a bunch of your depth, or good players, for AJ, that would be one thing. But you didn't simply give away a bunch of players in order to get one stud. You got more in return.

 

From other responses, this deal was not as even as you would like to make it out to be. I was not skewing this any which way. AJ is a total stud, and usually to get a player like that, it simply seems like you have to give up more. You gave up some good players, I am not questioning that, but at the same time, you got more than just AJ in return.

 

Look, the deal went through. I am not crying about it. I thought, and still think, the deal is a bit one sided, and yes, I do feel you far and away got the better of the deal. Correct me if I am wrong, but you made this trade w/ a friend of yours who has 2 wins and is likely out of the hunt. That in itself sends up red flags. That you got a stud, along w/ solid starters like Slaton and Berrian, and a potential player in Wells, simply sent up red flags IMHO.

 

You think it was a fair trade. Fine. I think otherwise, and from responses, so do others. Whatever. It doesn't matter. Deal went through, and it is done.

Before you threw your perspective into it only one person said it wasnt fair and he isnt in the league and one person said it was fair. After you worded everything again to make it sound worse flea agreed with you. How in gods name can someone evaluate this trade without looking at the rosters of the two teams? This trade made both teams better plain and simple. It was very obvious what your intentions were with this thread and Im not going to be accused of cheating by someone who is bitter. Your evaluations of the players I traded a way are a complete joke and you made it sound like I got four studs in exchange for nothing because you want people to agree with you.

 

This is a PPC league that also includes return yards.

 

 

Westbrook is coming back this week. In a PPC league he is an elite player. He very easily can score just as many, if not more, points than AJ on any given week. Hes not some bum that isnt coming back this season and is garbage, he was a game time decision this week and ended up sitting out but will be back. If you dont put a lot of value on Westbrook thats your problem because a lot of people know how valuable he is and what he is capable of doing in the second half of the season.

 

Breaston is the number two WR in Arizona now AND he returns punts. Boldins relationship with ARI is falling apart and without question Breaston is the one who is going to benefit from it the most. Look what he has done over the course of his career when Fitz or Boldin are out. Boldin had just over 20 points this week. Do you think Boldins status wasnt discussed when negotiating the trade? Breaston is going to be a solid number 2 WR in FF and right on the cusp of being a number one. Without Boldin in Fit will see more double coverage, especially after what he did to the Bears, and Breaston is going to get a ton of targets.

 

Bush returns kicks, gets some carries and now is starting to play WR. He had 7 catches this week. He is a good fantasy player and can get points lots of different ways. Oh, BTW he outscored Slaton this week, who got like 6 carries. Also, this wasnt a surprise to me. I much rather would have Reggie Bush but then the other guy wouldnt have accepted the trade, he initially wanted Ricky Williams instead which I turned down.

 

Manningham has had a very good year so far as well. He has 112 fantasy points which you dismissed pretty easily. Ill admit, Im not that high on him but I know he will get some targets every week and so far this year he has been putting up very good fantasy numbers. He was basically thrown in because I wouldnt give up Ricky Williams and because of that Beanie Wells was thrown in to keep rosters even.

 

AJ doesnt need an explanation, thats why I was willing to give up what I did for him.

 

Slaton. This guy was being shopped to everyone in the league because of him getting benched. I basically needed him as a body if I lost Bush because I would have no running backs left. I never looked at Slaton as a big piece of what I was getting. I dont put much value on him and neither did the guy trading him. He was on the trading block and was being shopped around so if you think he is that good you should have made a play for him (Ill trade him very easily) Both of us wanted Bush over him and I had to give him up to make him agree.

 

Beanie Wells was thrown in as I said to balance rosters. The guy has done nothing, is on a team that doesnt run much and isnt even the starting running back. He is basically worthless in our league. For you to try and say he added any value to the trade proves that either you have an agenda or you dont know the values of players in FF. As far as his upside. Im not holding my breath on him turning into Michael Turner in the next few weeks. Im not starting an NFL franchise here hoping he may develop in the offseason, Im in a FF league where the playoffs start in a few weeks. You want him too? Make me an offer because you obviously put more value on him than well...anybody

 

Berrian is a decent FF WR but his value goes down in PPC leagues. Hes without question the least valuable WR involved in the trade and for you to compare him to Breaston is hilarious. Breaston and Manningham have both scored more than Berrian and are going to continue to. Berrian will get you decent points one week and zero points the next. Hes a risky play every week and I would much rather have either of the other 2 I gave up. I will have to play him because of all I gave up some weeks but it hurts my team.

 

Again this is a PPC league with return yards where there are THREE flex players so all or most of these guys will be playing for both teams most weeks. Take AJ and Westbrook out of the equation. Which team do you think will get more production of the other players involved in the trade? Im sure most people will think the other guy will, especially considering I wont be using one of the guys I got (Wells) ever. Is Andre Johnson so much better than Brian Westbrook that its not worth the extra production you will get from the other three players? Is it not possible Westbrook can come back this week and outscore AJ alone? Im not even going to get into the rosters of both teams because any of the league members can see them but that also has to be taken into account. Theres a reason why he could afford to give up AJ and theres reasons why he needed to add some better depth to his team. This isnt a black and white trade. It took a while to agree on it because we placed different values on different players.

 

Also, yes, this trade was done with my friend which wasnt a secret. It is impossible to negotiate trades through Yahoo because all you get offered is three garbage players for a stud and none of the offers are legit. You need to talk to people, look at both rosters and figure out a way to make it work for both teams which is exactly what we did. He will have three wins after this week and is only two games out of playoffs. He also put up almost 200 points this week and got more from what I gave him than I got in return and that is without Westbrook. This was why I posted about the trade of mine that was vetoed last season because it was so lopsided with me getting ripped off and in the end I would have ended up getting the deal of the season and made a great trade because of what I projected TO and Royal to do last year came to fruition but it got vetoed by people like you who cant look past anything and wont let anyone roll the dice if you dont agree on the value of the players.

 

Bottom line the trade was extremely fair. I havent looked at the other trades in the league but I would easily say by the end of the year it will be the most balanced trade and will make both teams better. You left out all of the variables in the trade, accused me of cheating and waited until I played you to mention it instead of vetoing it or bringing it up before. I understand why people dont like trades like this because A. people value players differently and B. it makes both teams better and why would anyone want two teams to improve?

[madlithuanian]

It's simple fellas... Eliminate trades. Elminate the hazy shade of collusion. Wedid it in the league I am in, and none of us miss it in the least. Draft better, and pick up better FA's...

 

 

[nfoligno]

Bottom line the trade was extremely fair. I havent looked at the other trades in the league but I would easily say by the end of the year it will be the most balanced trade and will make both teams better. You left out all of the variables in the trade, accused me of cheating and waited until I played you to mention it instead of vetoing it or bringing it up before. I understand why people dont like trades like this because A. people value players differently and B. it makes both teams better and why would anyone want two teams to improve?

 

One. I actually did veto it. Two. You say I waiting until we played each other, but talk about skewing the facts. The trade was simply made in the week you and I happened to face off. Lets not pretend this deal went down a couple weeks ago, and I just now brought it up.

 

It was very obvious what your intentions were with this thread and Im not going to be accused of cheating by someone who is bitter. Your evaluations of the players I traded a way are a complete joke and you made it sound like I got four studs in exchange for nothing because you want people to agree with you.

 

I'm not bitter at all. In fact, I am sort of laughing at how sensative you are taking all this. Yea, I think the deal is "off". At the same time, from the start, I have said that while that is my perception, I was asking for opinions because perception is relative. If you go back, I said from the start that I was posing the question, and if others disagreed, I would apologize to the owners. I said then it was my perception, but again, was open to my opinion being in the minority, and was prepared for such.

 

Westbrook is coming back this week. In a PPC league he is an elite player. He very easily can score just as many, if not more, points than AJ on any given week. Hes not some bum that isnt coming back this season and is garbage, he was a game time decision this week and ended up sitting out but will be back. If you dont put a lot of value on Westbrook thats your problem because a lot of people know how valuable he is and what he is capable of doing in the second half of the season.

 

I know well Westbrook, and the value in a PPC league. I have always felt Westbrook was a top 5 FF player in a PPC. But this is not the Westbrook of old. Even prior to his missing games, he was not his usual self. Then factor in their rookie has looked pretty solid in West's absence, and even the coaches have said McCoy will continue to play a big role once Westbrook returns.

 

You try to make it out like I am clueless as to who Westbrook is, but you are wrong. I know well who he is, but his value this year is simply not what it once was. He only has one game this year, against Oakland, where he put up big FF points, and that even includes his game prior to injury. Sorry, but you try to talk about his past and relate it to the present. By that logic, if Larry Johnson was part of the deal, you would likely talk about his elite FF value too.

 

Breaston is the number two WR in Arizona now AND he returns punts. Boldins relationship with ARI is falling apart and without question Breaston is the one who is going to benefit from it the most. Look what he has done over the course of his career when Fitz or Boldin are out. Boldin had just over 20 points this week. Do you think Boldins status wasnt discussed when negotiating the trade? Breaston is going to be a solid number 2 WR in FF and right on the cusp of being a number one. Without Boldin in Fit will see more double coverage, especially after what he did to the Bears, and Breaston is going to get a ton of targets.

 

I believe I called Breaston a solid starting WR. I never made him out to be less or more. He isn't going to face Chicago every week, and despite how you try to spin it, Boldin will return too. Look, Breaston is a solid starter. Never argued otherwise.

 

Bush returns kicks, gets some carries and now is starting to play WR. He had 7 catches this week. He is a good fantasy player and can get points lots of different ways. Oh, BTW he outscored Slaton this week, who got like 6 carries. Also, this wasnt a surprise to me. I much rather would have Reggie Bush but then the other guy wouldnt have accepted the trade, he initially wanted Ricky Williams instead which I turned down.

 

Um, Bush is might get you around 10-12 ppg. Average player, little more.

 

Manningham has had a very good year so far as well. He has 112 fantasy points which you dismissed pretty easily. Ill admit, Im not that high on him but I know he will get some targets every week and so far this year he has been putting up very good fantasy numbers. He was basically thrown in because I wouldnt give up Ricky Williams and because of that Beanie Wells was thrown in to keep rosters even.

 

I love how you are quick to note how many FF points he has, yet gloss over the mediocrity of the others FF points. You say you are not high on him, but he is probably the best player among the group you traded.

 

AJ doesnt need an explanation, thats why I was willing to give up what I did for him.

 

Slaton. This guy was being shopped to everyone in the league because of him getting benched. I basically needed him as a body if I lost Bush because I would have no running backs left. I never looked at Slaton as a big piece of what I was getting. I dont put much value on him and neither did the guy trading him. He was on the trading block and was being shopped around so if you think he is that good you should have made a play for him (Ill trade him very easily) Both of us wanted Bush over him and I had to give him up to make him agree.

 

You wanted Bush over Slaton? Slaton has 131 FF points, and several 20+ weeks, compared to Bush who has 87 points, a week high of 16, and 2nd high of 12. Who are you trying to spin this too. Slaton is a considerably superior FF player than Bush, and w/ Houston losing their TE, his value likely just went up.

 

Beanie Wells was thrown in as I said to balance rosters. The guy has done nothing, is on a team that doesnt run much and isnt even the starting running back. He is basically worthless in our league. For you to try and say he added any value to the trade proves that either you have an agenda or you dont know the values of players in FF. As far as his upside. Im not holding my breath on him turning into Michael Turner in the next few weeks. Im not starting an NFL franchise here hoping he may develop in the offseason, Im in a FF league where the playoffs start in a few weeks. You want him too? Make me an offer because you obviously put more value on him than well...anybody

 

No, I don't think he is all that. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't get to play Chicago every week either.

 

Berrian is a decent FF WR but his value goes down in PPC leagues. Hes without question the least valuable WR involved in the trade and for you to compare him to Breaston is hilarious. Breaston and Manningham have both scored more than Berrian and are going to continue to. Berrian will get you decent points one week and zero points the next. Hes a risky play every week and I would much rather have either of the other 2 I gave up. I will have to play him because of all I gave up some weeks but it hurts my team.

 

Yes, Berrian's value in a PPC is less, yet he is still a starting WR.

 

I put my spin, and you put your spin. At the end of the day, you gave up a group of starters, I agree, but received in return a stud in AJ, and despite how you talk about it, a 2nd tier stud in Slaton. You dismiss his value, but his points speak loud and clear, IMHO.

 

Again this is a PPC league with return yards where there are THREE flex players so all or most of these guys will be playing for both teams most weeks. Take AJ and Westbrook out of the equation. Which team do you think will get more production of the other players involved in the trade? Im sure most people will think the other guy will, especially considering I wont be using one of the guys I got (Wells) ever. Is Andre Johnson so much better than Brian Westbrook that its not worth the extra production you will get from the other three players? Is it not possible Westbrook can come back this week and outscore AJ alone? Im not even going to get into the rosters of both teams because any of the league members can see them but that also has to be taken into account. Theres a reason why he could afford to give up AJ and theres reasons why he needed to add some better depth to his team. This isnt a black and white trade. It took a while to agree on it because we placed different values on different players.

 

One, yes, AJ is worth that much more than Westbrook. Two, you continue to dismiss Slaton, who has more FF points than anyone you gave up in this deal. Not a single player you gave up has as many points as the 2nd best player you received.

 

Also, yes, this trade was done with my friend which wasnt a secret. It is impossible to negotiate trades through Yahoo because all you get offered is three garbage players for a stud and none of the offers are legit. You need to talk to people, look at both rosters and figure out a way to make it work for both teams which is exactly what we did. He will have three wins after this week and is only two games out of playoffs. He also put up almost 200 points this week and got more from what I gave him than I got in return and that is without Westbrook. This was why I posted about the trade of mine that was vetoed last season because it was so lopsided with me getting ripped off and in the end I would have ended up getting the deal of the season and made a great trade because of what I projected TO and Royal to do last year came to fruition but it got vetoed by people like you who cant look past anything and wont let anyone roll the dice if you dont agree on the value of the players.

 

Question. This deal aside, should any trade go through? Should two owners be allowed to make a deal w/o anyone else having a vote. Nice thought, but in reality, BS trades are made all the time. You argue yours was not a brother in law deal. Fine. You argue w/ enough passion that I tend to believe you. I am not going to knock an owner from looking the better in a deal. I myself am not going to make a deal where I don't at least feel I got the better of it. I felt this deal was considerably more lopsided. Yes, I also thought it questionable the deal was done between friends, one of which had 2 wins. It seemed very fishy, thus why I threw it out there. Now, I tend to think you simply made the better deal, but that isn't to say it was a brother in law deal.

 

Look, I am sorry if you were insulted. When a trade is made, it is going to be looked at. When a player like AJ is moved in that deal, it is going to be looked at that much more closely. I put it out there, asking for comments and opinions. I still think you hosed your buddy, but after discussion, don't believe it was a "brother in law" trade, if you understand the difference I mean.

[DrunkBomber]

When you listed this trade up here to get peoples opinions on you left out so much information because you wanted people to agree with you. The reason Im angry is because youre calling me a cheater and the league has money on the line. If you were honestly trying to see what people thought why wouldnt you post both rosters, scoring values and list the number of starters each team plays each week? Isnt that pretty important? Both people involved in the trade didnt have much value in Slaton. Just because you do doesnt make you right. I know how many points Slaton has and he also just got benched and only got 6 carries this week because he fumbles too much. I dont care how many points they currently have, I care how many I think they are going to get in the future. Westbrooks and Slatons numbers are so irrelevant in this trade and everyone should realize why. I also said I wasnt really high on Manningham but he was a throw in to give the guy depth to balance the trade out but he still has good numbers regardless.

 

It all comes down to how people value each player and not everyones going to be the same. I obviously value Westbrook more than you and you obviously value Slaton more than me but its my trade so your values mean nothing. I actually think the values you put on some of these guys is ridiculous. You tried to make it sound like Beanie Wells is someone who is going to do something in FF.

 

Yahoo projected the players I gave up to score more points than the ones I got for the rest of the season. So no matter where either of us value these guys there are experts that think the four guys I gave up are more valuable AND will score more. I dont put too much stock in those projections normally but Im using it as an example to show that if this trade was as lopsided as you initially tried to make it sound then nobody would project my guys to score more, let alone experts that work for the site that hosts our league.

 

The other guy involved is only 2 games behind you for a playoff spot btw and just won by almost 100 points , its not like hes tanking his season. If that was the case I wouldnt have given up the caliber of players I did and destroy my bench to get AJ.

 

Again, at this point what you have already said makes me realize what kind of guy you are and that you are a sore loser and a whiner. I didnt need FF to see that either. Anyone on these forums has seen you bitch and moan about something at some point. Im not going to overlook you calling me a cheater in a league where money is involved because you think you know what these players values are more than me, the other team involved and yahoo. You went to the extreme of making this thread and put such a bullshit spin on everything to make me look like a cheater. Thats a shady/jag off thing to do and it was very easy to expose and good luck the rest of the way, youre going to need it.

[nfoligno]

Again, at this point what you have already said makes me realize what kind of guy you are and that you are a sore loser and a whiner. I didnt need FF to see that either. Anyone on these forums has seen you bitch and moan about something at some point. Im not going to overlook you calling me a cheater in a league where money is involved because you think you know what these players values are more than me, the other team involved and yahoo. You went to the extreme of making this thread and put such a bullshit spin on everything to make me look like a cheater. Thats a shady/jag off thing to do and it was very easy to expose and good luck the rest of the way, youre going to need it.

 

Man, I almost have to laugh.

 

To begin, and for the record, I specifically didn't mention names in the trade. While those in our league would obviously know, I left off the names as our league is a minority of owners. I wasn't trying to call you out to everyone, but just trying to gain others opinions. I said from the beginning I would apologize if others felt my perception was off, which I did for the record, yet you continue to try and make this more than it was.

 

Now, you even need to take this to another level and call me out as a whiner on our boards, and acting like I am some hated nay-sayer on the board. Now who is coming off as the whiner.

 

Dude. I started a thread, asking for feedback. You say I began w/ a BS spin, but that is a joke. My original post is there for all to see, and it does little more than list the players involved. It was not until later I explained why I felt the deal was off.

 

At the end of the day, I said I was sorry, which I said I would do at the beginning. I said I was wrong, that it was not a brother in law trade, but simply one you (in my eyes) got the better end of. Yet rather than accept an apology, you feel the need to continue an attack. So be it. Enjoy the attack. I guarantee you will do little more than come off sounding every bit like the whiner you are accusing me of being.

[DrunkBomber]

You dodged this question again. Can someone not in our league look at your post and make a fair conclusion without knowing the rosters of the teams involved, scoring and number of starters we use?

[madlithuanian]

I'm not involved in any FF other than my league in California...

 

I posted this earlier:

 

"To me, the trade looks to be really be Johnson for Westbrook. Advantage ot the guy getting Johnson. But I don't think it's a huge advantage."

 

 

You dodged this question again. Can someone not in our league look at your post and make a fair conclusion without knowing the rosters of the teams involved, scoring and number of starters we use?

 

[nfoligno]

Didn't dodge the question.

 

Honestly, I personally felt the deal was one sided enough that other factors would not make up enough of a difference. At the same time, you are right in that a team in dire need for a position will more often take a lesser deal in order to improve at a position. For example, your friend doesn't have an elite QB. Now, once again, the bears sure as crap made him look elite, but this year, Warner has not been as elite as he had in the past. Thus, if there was a QB in the deal which improved his situation at that position, yes, that would be a big factor.

 

I assume your argument is he needed RB depth. He had Slaton and Grant, but his depth wasn't all that. Okay, I see the point. For me, need of RB depth is not usually such a great need as to trade away your best WR and best RB.

 

Look, it really boils down to a couple things.

 

I think more of Slaton than you. Thus when I saw a package where you received not only AJ, but Slaton, that seemed a bit hinky. It appears, from your end, the value of Slaton is simply not as great, and thus the value of the package you received is very different from my perspective.

 

You think I showed too much info in the post, or too much w/ my opinion. At the end of the day, I think you simply didn't like your deal being called out, and frankly, there is no way I could have worded such a thread which would have made you comfortable.

 

As I have said, I have no intention of name calling or any of that crap. I threw it out there for dicussion. Yea, I gave my opinion, but that is what you do in a discussion. I said all along I would apologize if it was a legit deal. After discussion w/ you, despite your taking this to a personal level, I regardless apologized. I said you got the better of the deal (congrats) but that after listening to you, don't think you or your friend were trying to pull a fast one. Thus I said I was sorry, and wanted to move on.

 

You dodged this question again. Can someone not in our league look at your post and make a fair conclusion without knowing the rosters of the teams involved, scoring and number of starters we use?

 

[Mongo3451]

You dodged this question again. Can someone not in our league look at your post and make a fair conclusion without knowing the rosters of the teams involved, scoring and number of starters we use?

Looking at this objectively, I would say you had an edge in the trade. It was NOT enough to be vetoed or implied to be a "brother in law trade".

 

On the beef side of the issue, NFO is a classic debater and will do anything to slant an argument his way. That's why I like debating him. He did not mean to offend. He just can't help himself. That's what former soccer players and place kickers do.

[nfoligno]

Guilty as charged. At least on the debator part, not the soccer part. Can't stand the sport, and it pained me when my daughter wanted to play, and I even had to help coach.

 

The phrase "slant and argument" is one I guess I don't understand. I know you are just having fun, but I honestly do not get it. If you are making an argument or a point, you make your case. The other side makes theirs. Either side will feel the points and arguments are "slanted" I suppose, but how exactly do you make your case w/o doing such?

 

We discuss/debate opinions, and thus everything is slanted.

 

Now, you really want to have fun, throw out some statistics, and use those same "facts" to argue to opposite sides. Now, that is some slanting

 

Looking at this objectively, I would say you had an edge in the trade. It was NOT enough to be vetoed or implied to be a "brother in law trade".

 

On the beef side of the issue, NFO is a classic debater and will do anything to slant an argument his way. That's why I like debating him. He did not mean to offend. He just can't help himself. That's what former soccer players and place kickers do.

 

[Mongo3451]

Guilty as charged. At least on the debator part, not the soccer part. Can't stand the sport, and it pained me when my daughter wanted to play, and I even had to help coach.

 

The phrase "slant and argument" is one I guess I don't understand. I know you are just having fun, but I honestly do not get it. If you are making an argument or a point, you make your case. The other side makes theirs. Either side will feel the points and arguments are "slanted" I suppose, but how exactly do you make your case w/o doing such?

 

We discuss/debate opinions, and thus everything is slanted.

 

Now, you really want to have fun, throw out some statistics, and use those same "facts" to argue to opposite sides. Now, that is some slanting

No thanks, you've been through enough today...

 

[madlithuanian]

Yes, you are indeed a master debator!

 

Guilty as charged. At least on the debator part, not the soccer part. Can't stand the sport, and it pained me when my daughter wanted to play, and I even had to help coach.

 

The phrase "slant and argument" is one I guess I don't understand. I know you are just having fun, but I honestly do not get it. If you are making an argument or a point, you make your case. The other side makes theirs. Either side will feel the points and arguments are "slanted" I suppose, but how exactly do you make your case w/o doing such?

 

We discuss/debate opinions, and thus everything is slanted.

 

Now, you really want to have fun, throw out some statistics, and use those same "facts" to argue to opposite sides. Now, that is some slanting

 

[DrunkBomber]

Guilty as charged. At least on the debator part, not the soccer part. Can't stand the sport, and it pained me when my daughter wanted to play, and I even had to help coach.

 

The phrase "slant and argument" is one I guess I don't understand. I know you are just having fun, but I honestly do not get it. If you are making an argument or a point, you make your case. The other side makes theirs. Either side will feel the points and arguments are "slanted" I suppose, but how exactly do you make your case w/o doing such?

 

We discuss/debate opinions, and thus everything is slanted.

 

Now, you really want to have fun, throw out some statistics, and use those same "facts" to argue to opposite sides. Now, that is some slanting

Because you initially said you were just posting the trade to see what other people thought of it but then you also put spin on the side you wanted to agree with. So essentially you werent asking for objective opinions, you were trying to make them agree with you without giving them all of the facts. Once they got all of the facts I havent seen anyone say it was a bad trade.

[DrunkBomber]

I retract what I said about smashing you after Steelers D and Mendenhall put up 61 when you were down 58 lol, but I still like the trade.