BearFan2000 Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 in the last two weeks we have been man handled twice won a game that felt more like a loss than a win. where do we begin putting humpty dumpty back together.... I honestly don't know where to begin. Let's face this is a wreck of a team. When Lovie took over we had a strong defense and no offense. Over his time here his staff took over a talented defense and rode that to a Super Bowl. Now that that D has declined and an offense crippled by poor offensive line play, poor play calling, poor execution. An overall team attitude of a team that has no heart, no discipline, outside of a few players I don't see a lot worth saving. 1. I have to ask as they were discussing on post game... how much of this is the players, and how much of it is the coaching? It's not so much a question of which it's a question of how much is each component playing into the overall problem. Both have their hand in this mess. 2. Sure it's been a rough year for Cutler but I will give him a pass as he has had little help. They brought this up and its maddening. When a play breaks down and Cutler is on the run which seems like 90% of the time our WR's don't come back to Jay to give him a target. They just run their routes or just stand around. The line has done a poor job protecting Cutler.. At this point I'm almost thinking we should consider playing Hainie just we don't get Jay killed. 3. At this point what do we have that is salvageable, how bad does this have to get before we have any inkling that Lovie is gone at years end. When you are playing as badly as we have the last few weeks you don't make a statement that.... "We're a good football team....... I like where we are right now...... we're in the mix and that's all you want to be...." Translation "We are ok with being a mediocre football team, and I'm just trying to sugar coat it so my players won't feel bad about themselves" You don't motivate players by just being nice and saying it's ok when it's not. It's time to call a spade a spade. Your team which is under your "leadership" shows no heart, no desire, no intelligence, and seem as ok with loosing as you are. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee. What you are doing isn't cutting. Let's be honest this season is lost If I'm Jerry I basically say you have 8 games to show me why I should not fire you. 4. I see a team hanging their hats on past success particularly the defense.... We're better than that, we gotta play better, yada yada. I think the players and coaches honestly think that they are a good team and just need to play better. On what basis do they think this? In the four wins this year only two were good wins. We barely beat a badly wounded Seahawks team and had a unimpressive win over the one team in the NFL that might be worse than us. In our four losses we have been completely embarrassed three times (GB, Cincy, Arizona) and lost a close one in Atlanta. Last year was dismal as well though we had a decent running game and the D played better than this year. The Bears have gotten worse over the years since the SB year. There is no reason this team should think that "we just need to play better" There's more to it than that. It's like me making the same mistakes over and over and each time saying I'm sorry and it won't happen again. We are done hearing "we need to play better" No shit sherlock. This is going to be a tough offseason. We won't have a #1 or a #2, so we will have to hit on the picks we do have. But we will have to be a player in the FA market. But we also need to realize that the Cover 2 is scheme that most teams have abandoned for a reason. It's like playing prevent for 4 quarters if you can't get a pass rush... and we can't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm speechless. IMO- we're about to turn into the Bucs. Our defense is aging and is always hurt. However, we have no draft picks to get younger there (plus we need to use the few that we have to also improve and get younger on the OL). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm speechless. IMO- we're about to turn into the Bucs. At least we didn't just lose to the Bucs, lol. Any self respecting Bears fan ought to be able to get at least some jollies out of the Packer's pain, regardless of our...ahem...situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's becoming clearer that Lovie has lost this team. I can't put it any clearer than that. There are just too many errors out on the field in terms of execution and at some point you stop blaming players and have to look at the leadership they are getting. While I don't think we have great talent, we do have enough talent to stay on the field with a team like the Cardinals. I've watched a lot of Cardinals games and their Oline is not that good yet we made them look great. There is just no passion coming out of these players and this is a game that can only be played well with passion. Hello Bill? Yeah, it's Jerry Angelo, listen, about next year.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's becoming clearer that Lovie has lost this team. I can't put it any clearer than that. There are just too many errors out on the field in terms of execution and at some point you stop blaming players and have to look at the leadership they are getting. While I don't think we have great talent, we do have enough talent to stay on the field with a team like the Cardinals. I've watched a lot of Cardinals games and their Oline is not that good yet we made them look great. There is just no passion coming out of these players and this is a game that can only be played well with passion. Hello Bill? Yeah, it's Jerry Angelo, listen, about next year.... I agree he has lost this team but I do not see them firing him and, even if they do, they will not bring in a top level coach (Cowher, Holmgren, etc). It's all about the Benjamins and they will end up hiring another coordinator (e.g. Rivera). Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan2000 Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree he has lost this team but I do not see them firing him and, even if they do, they will not bring in a top level coach (Cowher, Holmgren, etc). It's all about the Benjamins and they will end up hiring another coordinator (e.g. Rivera). Peace Therein lies the problem... We always hire some guy with no experience being a head coach or even an assistant head coach since Ditka. We've hired 3 former Defensive coordinators Wanny, Dicky J, and our current village idiot... I mean Lovie. IMO you get what you pay for. So as you say even if we fire him odds are we won't go out and bring in a big name guy with experience. Instead we shop at the discount isle when we go coach shopping. And then our cheap inexperienced guy brings in his buddies curly and Moe to run the Offense and Defense... Curly and Moe bring in their buddies dumb and dumber to be position coaches.... Then When things go into the tank our no name no credential coach is befuddled and blames the players by saying things like we just need to execute better. I just question whether this franchise has the stones to make the tough decisions required to right this ship. Jerry needs to own a piece of this mess and there needs to be accountability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 It's becoming clearer that Lovie has lost this team. I can't put it any clearer than that. There are just too many errors out on the field in terms of execution and at some point you stop blaming players and have to look at the leadership they are getting. While I don't think we have great talent, we do have enough talent to stay on the field with a team like the Cardinals. I've watched a lot of Cardinals games and their Oline is not that good yet we made them look great. There is just no passion coming out of these players and this is a game that can only be played well with passion. Hello Bill? Yeah, it's Jerry Angelo, listen, about next year.... Don't count on it. I'd bank on us bringing in a guy like Leslie Frazier (current Vikings DC) or Jason Garrett (current Cowboys OC). Maybe not exactly 1 of those 2, but like Connor said, we aren't going to eat $11m by firing Lovie THEN go out and spend $10m per year over the next 4 years on a guy like Holmgren, Shanahan, or Cowher. At least we didn't just lose to the Bucs, lol. Any self respecting Bears fan ought to be able to get at least some jollies out of the Packer's pain, regardless of our...ahem...situation. Who cares if we can't handle our own business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Who cares if we can't handle our own business? Like I said, any self respecting Bears fan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Don't count on it. I'd bank on us bringing in a guy like Leslie Frazier (current Vikings DC) or Jason Garrett (current Cowboys OC). Maybe not exactly 1 of those 2, but like Connor said, we aren't going to eat $11m by firing Lovie THEN go out and spend $10m per year over the next 4 years on a guy like Holmgren, Shanahan, or Cowher. Who cares if we can't handle our own business? I have 8 more weeks of this mess to get through, at least let me dream until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree we will not hire one of the top tier HC candidates, but not for the same reason you give. I would argue those experienced coaches like Cowher, Shannahan, and others, are going to want GM duties as well. With Angelo in place, we are not going to hire a coach who also wants GM duties, thus we are not going to be getting one of the upper tier HC candidates. I agree he has lost this team but I do not see them firing him and, even if they do, they will not bring in a top level coach (Cowher, Holmgren, etc). It's all about the Benjamins and they will end up hiring another coordinator (e.g. Rivera). Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree we will not hire one of the top tier HC candidates, but not for the same reason you give. I would argue those experienced coaches like Cowher, Shannahan, and others, are going to want GM duties as well. With Angelo in place, we are not going to hire a coach who also wants GM duties, thus we are not going to be getting one of the upper tier HC candidates. Agreed. Ron Rivera it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I got a feeling the Bears are going to go the under-the-radar way and go after a Mike Nolan and see if he can turn the ship the 2nd time around. They go cheaper on the HC and than try to find a good offensive mind to bring in and let run the offensive side of the show. I'm not sure the Bears will fire Lovie and go with a Shanny and I think Gruden winds up at Notre Dame. A wild card would be the Bears going after Jim Harbaugh (of Stanford), who I guarantee turns into one of the hot names this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I agree we will not hire one of the top tier HC candidates, but not for the same reason you give. I would argue those experienced coaches like Cowher, Shannahan, and others, are going to want GM duties as well. With Angelo in place, we are not going to hire a coach who also wants GM duties, thus we are not going to be getting one of the upper tier HC candidates. If any of those guys want GM duties, I wouldn't hire them. Coaches can not double as GM's. It doesn't work. Holmgren knows that so he isn't going to ask for them and Shanny got in trouble in Denver when he took over as the Personell guy. They'll want say, but you need to have a GM. I think Angelo's job is probably safer than Lovies and I've been a huge Angelo backer but this year has been a meltdown. Still, I liked the theory of what Jerry did and I put a lot more blame on Lovie for what has happened cause I think Lovie did a horrible job evaluating his talent on the field and Jerry listened to Lovie a bit too much. That said if your going to let Jerry bring in his guy at coach, it means your going to let him stay another few years cause you can't fire the coach and than fire the GM a year later (with a coach who he didn't pick running the helm...thats just bad business, imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I'm speechless. IMO- we're about to turn into the Bucs. Our defense is aging and is always hurt. However, we have no draft picks to get younger there (plus we need to use the few that we have to also improve and get younger on the OL). The blessing is we have Jay Cutler. And a good QB can help us make the playoffs while we retool a bit. Or at least that is what I'm hoping (although I doubt it happens by this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 If any of those guys want GM duties, I wouldn't hire them. Coaches can not double as GM's. It doesn't work. Holmgren knows that so he isn't going to ask for them and Shanny got in trouble in Denver when he took over as the Personell guy. They'll want say, but you need to have a GM. Regarding Holmgren, I personally am not that big of a fan. What did he do w/o Farve and Wolfe? W/o Farve, he ran an average team. W/o Wolfe, see prior comment. As for Shanny, you say he got into trouble when he took over as a personnel guy. One, when did that happen. Honestly do not know. But w/ that said, Denver seems like a team that consistently found solid young talent, so I am not sure (a) he did that poorly as a personnel guy or ( that he realizes he did poorly if that is the case, and would not demand such responsibility. I think Angelo's job is probably safer than Lovies and I've been a huge Angelo backer but this year has been a meltdown. Still, I liked the theory of what Jerry did and I put a lot more blame on Lovie for what has happened cause I think Lovie did a horrible job evaluating his talent on the field and Jerry listened to Lovie a bit too much. I think most often the GM is safer than the coach. I for a long time was all over Angelo, and while there are still units I think he simply has never treated as important enough (OL and S), I also think the problem has been more and issue of development and coaching, rather than talent. Chicken and egg argument, but I have come to believe that Angelo has found talent but Lovie and Co have simply been poor in developing that talent, and putting them in the best position to win. That said if your going to let Jerry bring in his guy at coach, it means your going to let him stay another few years cause you can't fire the coach and than fire the GM a year later (with a coach who he didn't pick running the helm...thats just bad business, imo). This goes back to something I have wondered. Is Angelo tied to Lovie? Does Phillips look at the situation and say, "Lovie is doing a poor job, but Lovie was Angelo's choice, and thus Angelo has to go down w/ Lovie." If that is the case, I think both are given another year, and if the team still looks poor, both will be gone. If they are not as tightly tied together, then I think it more possible than some believe that Lovie could be let go, and Angelo be giving one more opportunity to hire a new HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 This goes back to something I have wondered. Is Angelo tied to Lovie? Does Phillips look at the situation and say, "Lovie is doing a poor job, but Lovie was Angelo's choice, and thus Angelo has to go down w/ Lovie." If that is the case, I think both are given another year, and if the team still looks poor, both will be gone. If they are not as tightly tied together, then I think it more possible than some believe that Lovie could be let go, and Angelo be giving one more opportunity to hire a new HC. I think you've hit the nail on the head with this paragraph and I'm curious to see what the case is. Basically I see one of three things happening: Phillips has faith in Angelo: We fire Lovie, Angelo brings in another guy, and he gets a few years with that guy. Phillips has lost faith in both: We fire both Phillips has lost just a bit of faith in Angelo and faith in Lovie: We give them each one more year on an ultimatum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Welcome to our destiny... We will not do anything of note. Phillips has lost just a bit of faith in Angelo and faith in Lovie: We give them each one more year on an ultimatum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 If we're shooting for a coordinator...Frazier would seem the guy. He's done well, he's got a legacy here, and we cherry pick against a rival. I got a feeling the Bears are going to go the under-the-radar way and go after a Mike Nolan and see if he can turn the ship the 2nd time around. They go cheaper on the HC and than try to find a good offensive mind to bring in and let run the offensive side of the show. I'm not sure the Bears will fire Lovie and go with a Shanny and I think Gruden winds up at Notre Dame. A wild card would be the Bears going after Jim Harbaugh (of Stanford), who I guarantee turns into one of the hot names this off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 If any of those guys want GM duties, I wouldn't hire them. Coaches can not double as GM's. It doesn't work. Agreed 100%. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMEDSONPAYTON2 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 The blessing is we have Jay Cutler. And a good QB can help us make the playoffs while we retool a bit. Or at least that is what I'm hoping (although I doubt it happens by this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAMEDSONPAYTON2 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 The blessing is we have Jay Cutler. And a good QB can help us make the playoffs while we retool a bit. Or at least that is what I'm hoping (although I doubt it happens by this year). Jim Mora here PLAYOFFS?,PLAYOFFS? @&$@&%^ YOU TALKING PLAYOFFS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selection7 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Can't do DIDDLY-POO!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Agreed 100%. Peace I also agree as head coaches have enough trouble being the head coach let alone the DEF Coordinator as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.