Kreutz Future: Do We Trade Him?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I realize that we've already past the trade deadline, but I think its time to take a look at the future of this Bears team. One of the first names that comes to my mind is the wiley veteran, Olin Kreutz.

 

Should we start to go another direction as we work on rebuilding our line? Could he be able to help us land an extra 3rd round pick in a trade? Would Josh Beekman (the so called guy grooming for the job) be a solid center.

 

Essentially, should we trade Kreutz in the off-season for a 3rd or 4th pick, move Beekman to Center and than spend the money saved (plus whats in our coffers) for a big time tackle (or just find a real good RT if we think Williams can play LT). Use a draft pick or two on guards, plus sign a veteran guard to go with the RT and call it and off-season.

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

I think everything is on the table if it makes us a better team in the long term.

[nfoligno]

Sorry, but I do not see Kreutz getting us that much. In the offseason, Kreutz will have one year left on his deal. We are not the only ones who can see how far he has fallen. And Kreutz final deal, I believe, is not cheap. So another team would be looking at a player who has been skiing down the backside of his career for a couple years, be in the final year of his contract, and be expensive.

 

That is the sort of player who is usualy cut, not traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

 

I realize that we've already past the trade deadline, but I think its time to take a look at the future of this Bears team. One of the first names that comes to my mind is the wiley veteran, Olin Kreutz.

 

Should we start to go another direction as we work on rebuilding our line? Could he be able to help us land an extra 3rd round pick in a trade? Would Josh Beekman (the so called guy grooming for the job) be a solid center.

 

Essentially, should we trade Kreutz in the off-season for a 3rd or 4th pick, move Beekman to Center and than spend the money saved (plus whats in our coffers) for a big time tackle (or just find a real good RT if we think Williams can play LT). Use a draft pick or two on guards, plus sign a veteran guard to go with the RT and call it and off-season.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Sorry, but I do not see Kreutz getting us that much. In the offseason, Kreutz will have one year left on his deal. We are not the only ones who can see how far he has fallen. And Kreutz final deal, I believe, is not cheap. So another team would be looking at a player who has been skiing down the backside of his career for a couple years, be in the final year of his contract, and be expensive.

 

That is the sort of player who is usualy cut, not traded for a 3rd or 4th round pick.

You are probably 100% right.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed, but I'd still test the water regardless. Something is better than nothing.

 

You are probably 100% right.

 

[Connorbear]

Agreed, but I'd still test the water regardless. Something is better than nothing.

Sure but we still will most likely not get anything for him.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

Sure but we still will most likely not get anything for him.

 

Peace

 

[BearSox]

Kreutz has arguably been our best Olineman thus far. We wont get much for him via trade, and he is still a solid player (obviously not the player he used to be). We should worry more about RG and RT (shift Williams to LT) and not adding to the holes by getting rid of Kreutz.

[nfoligno]

RG? Garza has probably been our best OL this year. Now, I still don't think he is much more than average, but he is far from our weakest link. In order for me:

 

LG - Omiyale was unbelievably bad. Beekman finally inserted, but if he is the future at C, then he isn't the future at LG.

LT - Pace has been nearly as bad as Omiyale.

RT - I still want to see Williams on the left, but on the right, I think he has sucked.

C - Kreutz simply continues to do downhill

RG - Garza has not been good, but has been the lesser of evils this season.

 

Kreutz has arguably been our best Olineman thus far. We wont get much for him via trade, and he is still a solid player (obviously not the player he used to be). We should worry more about RG and RT (shift Williams to LT) and not adding to the holes by getting rid of Kreutz.

 

[BearSox]

Garza is done, his knees are shot. I haven't seen anything out of him. Also, considering Kreutz plays the much more important spot on the line and is an undisputed leader on the team, I'll take him.

[nfoligno]

Garza is done, his knees are shot. I haven't seen anything out of him. Also, considering Kreutz plays the much more important spot on the line and is an undisputed leader on the team, I'll take him.

 

His knees are shot? I have not seen much of anything saying his knees were injured like that. Look, I am not saying he has played well. FAR from it. I have not seen him opening up holes for Forte to run through by any stretch. At the same time, I have not often seen him getting flat out blown up while his man put pressure on Cutler. I have seen all four of the other OL getting blown up each week.

 

I am not making Garza out to be more than he is. At the same time, I simply have not seen him play as poorly as others. That isn't to say he has played well. Just not "as" bad as the rest.

 

As for Kreutz, he is the undisputed leader of a sorry ass unit. Not much to credit there.

[jason]

RG? Garza has probably been our best OL this year. Now, I still don't think he is much more than average, but he is far from our weakest link. In order for me:

 

LG - Omiyale was unbelievably bad. Beekman finally inserted, but if he is the future at C, then he isn't the future at LG.

LT - Pace has been nearly as bad as Omiyale.

RT - I still want to see Williams on the left, but on the right, I think he has sucked.

C - Kreutz simply continues to do downhill

RG - Garza has not been good, but has been the lesser of evils this season.

 

It's scary how much we agree on this issue. The only difference is I don't think ANYONE has sucked near as much as Omiyale.

 

LG, Omiyale: F-

LT, Pace: D

RT, Williams: C-

C, Kreutz: C

RG, Garza: C+

[nfoligno]

Saying no one has sucked near as much as Omiyale is not saying much though. Omiyale has been so bad he should be wearing a Cleveland Browns uniform and playing QB.

 

LT - Pace - D minus - He has been called out for poor play, but I think the hate would have been even greater if not for the play of Omiyale next to him.

 

LG - Omiyale - I would give an F minus grade, but would that even do justice to his play? Omiyale has been to the LG position what Derrick Anderson has been to the QB position this year. Saying a QB gets an F minus rating after posting a 0.0 QB rating doesn't do his play justice, and neither does giving Omiyale an F minus grade.

 

C - Kreutz - C minus - He has been bad, but among this group, his bad play has not been nearly as obvious.

 

RG - Garza - C - He has not done much in the run game, but at the same time, I have not seen him often getting blown up in the passing game either.

 

RT - Williams - D+ - I just think his play has been this bad. Not only has he failed to open holes on run downs, he is often pushed backward, and in the passing game, he seems to be getting beaten early and often, and by both speed and power. I still tend to believe he is simply on the wrong side of the ball, but evaluating him simply as a RT, I think his play has been simply bad, and (common theme) only the awful play of others has kept Williams from the spotlight.

 

It's scary how much we agree on this issue. The only difference is I don't think ANYONE has sucked near as much as Omiyale.

 

LG, Omiyale: F-

LT, Pace: D

RT, Williams: C-

C, Kreutz: C

RG, Garza: C+

 

[Mongo3451]

Saying no one has sucked near as much as Omiyale is not saying much though. Omiyale has been so bad he should be wearing a Cleveland Browns uniform and playing QB.

 

LT - Pace - D minus - He has been called out for poor play, but I think the hate would have been even greater if not for the play of Omiyale next to him.

 

LG - Omiyale - I would give an F minus grade, but would that even do justice to his play? Omiyale has been to the LG position what Derrick Anderson has been to the QB position this year. Saying a QB gets an F minus rating after posting a 0.0 QB rating doesn't do his play justice, and neither does giving Omiyale an F minus grade.

 

C - Kreutz - C minus - He has been bad, but among this group, his bad play has not been nearly as obvious.

 

RG - Garza - C - He has not done much in the run game, but at the same time, I have not seen him often getting blown up in the passing game either.

 

RT - Williams - D+ - I just think his play has been this bad. Not only has he failed to open holes on run downs, he is often pushed backward, and in the passing game, he seems to be getting beaten early and often, and by both speed and power. I still tend to believe he is simply on the wrong side of the ball, but evaluating him simply as a RT, I think his play has been simply bad, and (common theme) only the awful play of others has kept Williams from the spotlight.

You guys are brutal. While I give the collective OL a D, only one player gets an F/ Omiyale may be the worst OL I've ever seen line up for the Bears. He alone lowers the curve. Give Beekman time to correct that curve. Pace C-, Beekman B-, Kruetz C, Garza C+, and Williams C-. I still think the OL will get a little better as time passes. Just don't think it will be enough. Our D is simply too horrible again. We are starting to look like 7-9.

[nfoligno]

I will admit that I may be extra harsh as I may be predisposed to be negative toward this unit. I didn't like this group entering the season, and like it less now, obviously.

 

At the same time, as bad as Omiyale was, I also think the problems were far beyond just him.

 

If Pace were simply getting beaten on the inside, then I might see an argument that an OT that pushes the DE inside usually pushes that DE into a clutter where the OG is blocking the DT. But Pace has, IMHO, been getting flat out torched on the edge. That really doesn't have much to do w/ Omiyale. I believe you have argued that if a better LG makes his block, then the QB has room to step up. While I agree that is true, at the same time, I disagree an OT is doing his job effectively if the QB has to move to avoid the rush of the DE.

 

Our grades on Kreutz, Garza and Williams are really not "that" different. In fact, in each of those, we are only off by one degree. But there is just no way Pace gets any sort of a C in my book. He has been getting beaten way too often, not to mention getting hit w/ penalties, which is often a sign of an OL having to cheat to compensate for a lack of ability.

 

 

 

You guys are brutal. While I give the collective OL a D, only one player gets an F/ Omiyale may be the worst OL I've ever seen line up for the Bears. He alone lowers the curve. Give Beekman time to correct that curve. Pace C-, Beekman B-, Kruetz C, Garza C+, and Williams C-. I still think the OL will get a little better as time passes. Just don't think it will be enough. Our D is simply too horrible again. We are starting to look like 7-9.

 

[madlithuanian]

This ain't time to be grading on a curve or giving out extra credit!

 

There isn't one player on our O Line that is better than a C, and many that are failing...

 

You guys are brutal. While I give the collective OL a D, only one player gets an F/ Omiyale may be the worst OL I've ever seen line up for the Bears. He alone lowers the curve. Give Beekman time to correct that curve. Pace C-, Beekman B-, Kruetz C, Garza C+, and Williams C-. I still think the OL will get a little better as time passes. Just don't think it will be enough. Our D is simply too horrible again. We are starting to look like 7-9.

 

[defiantgiant]

Yeah, there's no way any team would give up a draft pick for Kreutz. He's 32, isn't blocking as effectively as he used to, and is starting to show some problems in the mental aspect of the game, too. Kreutz's problem used to just be a lot of bad snaps: this season, though, he's not only started to pick up a bunch of dumb penalties, but he's also getting blown up on a lot of blocks, which I never saw before this year. He got a little less effective each year in '07 and '08, but it looks like he's definitely hit the steep part of his decline this year.

 

Garza has been our only consistent lineman through 8 games this season (although I'd include Beekman if he'd been starting since Week 1) and he's only been consistently average. Beekman, I think, actually looks promising: if he plays at center like he has at guard, he'll be more than adequate.

 

I think the jury's still out on Williams: he's made some rookie mental mistakes and he hasn't done a great job run-blocking, but he's also being played out of position and his pass protection has looked OK. He's not a good run-blocker for a right tackle, but he'd be at least mid-pack on the left side: in terms of ALY, he's 25th in the league (with 3.71) among right tackles, but that same 3.71 would rank him 18th among left tackles. I think that's about what you'd expect from a finesse guy whose main strength is pass protection, and it's way better than what we have now. For comparison, the Bears would be doing a whole yard better on each run to the left if Williams were to replace Orlando Pace.

 

Now that Omiyale's benched, I think that Pace and Kreutz are the only guys really bombing on the Bears' line right now. Beekman can replace Kreutz and I'm pretty sure Williams can replace Pace, but then we'd have to find replacements for Beekman and Williams at their old spots.