Ed Hochuli 3:16 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 OMGZ KYLE ORTON IS THA BEST QB EVA!!!!! HE WINS GAMEZ MAN!!!! Some things never change. He continues to stare down WR's and he continues to play like a** when teams blitz him nonstop. I hope all Denver fans are happy with their QB who maintains their lead but can never come down and win them a game against a real defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 I dont need to reiterate my hatred of Ortons game but this sums it up. He is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Denver Broncos are a good football team with a quarterback. Chicago Bears are a football team with a good quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Thanks for posting this as it has been driving me crazy living here in Denver and having to listen to people worship Orton and hate on Cutler. At the begginng of the season I bet my friend Dave lunch that Cutler would have a better year than Orton and mean more to his team. Dave emails me every week the stats and last friday this email pushed me over the edge and think the altitude has gotten to him or he is used to overating QB's like Romo as he is a Cowboys Fan. I was to pissed to respond ansd didn't. Let me know what your response would be to the folowing chain of emails? RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball From: David Sent: Fri 11/06/09 2:04 PM To: 'Joel K Unaltered statistics are facts, Joel. That “lies” quote refers to mis-interpretation and deception, not objective inference. Are you saying I altered or mis-calculated the figures? Seriously, if you didn’t believe in hard statistics, you wouldn’t be in finance. -------------------------- I’m trying to stay away from subjective opinion, but since you asked for it: Opinion: I wouldn’t take Orton over Romo. Their performance has been fairly similar, and Romo is the most experienced QB in Dallas’ system. However: 1. I’d take Orton as a backup for Romo anyday. 2. If I had the choice between him and Cutler, I’d take Orton, no question. I think he’s the better leader, more accurate passer, and the Cowboys saw last year what poor attitudes like Cutler’s can do to team dynamics. Sorry, but that’s how I see it. - Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joel K Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:42 PM To: David Subject: RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball There is a saying I like which is this: "there are lies, damn lies and then statistics!" My point is that stats are not facts! You seem to be enamored with Kyle and the stats thus far but would you be willing take Orton over Romo should Kyle hit FA at the end of the season? I am sure the answer would be no! If Orton and Cutler were both FA's and Romo was not the qb in DALLAS who do you take? I'm assuming you would take Kyle? I wonder what other Cowboy fans would think if you posted this a s hypothetical questions on the Dallas forum? That would be interesting to know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: david To: jpk Subject: RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:24:34 -0700 Joel, Of course you and I have different subjective opinions. That’s why our little wager was based on stats. It’s the only objective way to measure performance. ------------------------------- Oh, since you suggested it, here’s a comparison of the two with the Broncos: 2009 Orton vs. 2008 Cutler 1-10 yards: Orton: 43-of-70 (61.4%), 88.5 passer rating Cutler: 103-of-160 (64.4%), 90.3 passer rating 11-20 yards: Orton: 44-of-70 (62.9%), 80.9 passer rating Cutler: 106-of-160 (66.2%), 90.6 passer rating 21-30 yards: Orton: 38-of-59 (64.4%), 114.6 passer rating Cutler: 87-of-147 (59.2%), 80.3 passer rating 31+ yards: Orton: 22-of-32 (68.8%), 107.3 passer rating Cutler: 88-of-149 (59.1%), 82.0 passer rating It’s even more clear with this comparison. Cutler has an edge on short-yardage, but Orton is considerably more accurate with long-yardage passes. You may like Cutler better than Orton, or think Orton doesn’t throw the ball deep very well. But the facts tell a very different story. - Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joel Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:02 PM To: David Subject: RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball You can not rely on statistics alone as proof of who is a better downfield passer. I am forming my opinion based on what I have evaluated by watching both QB's. What do these stats look like when you take away Orton's immaculate deflection/ reception in game one? Clearly the stats do not take into consideration the awful OL play in Chicago or fluke plays. Why don't you compare what Orton does this year to what Cutler did last year statistically with Denver as the supporting cast on offense is essentially unchanged. The point is there is no way to compare these guys apples to apples from a performace factor and statistically speaking which is why I will take Cutler over Orton based on my persoanl observations. Another intersting thing will be to see how much the Broncos value and appreciate Kyle. Will the sign Orton to an extension; if so for how long and how much $ ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: david. To: jpk Subject: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:25:50 -0700 Joel, Since you brought it up yesterday at the class, let’s take a look at Orton vs. Cutler on passing stats by length (links are to current 2009 stats): 1-10 yards: Orton: 43-of-70 (61.4%) for 352 yds Cutler: 45-of-70 (64.3%) for 398 yds 11-20 yards: Orton: 44-of-70 (62.9%) for 464 yds Cutler: 45-of-70 (64.3%) for 518 yds 21-30 yards: Orton: 38-of-59 (64.4%) for 513 yds Cutler: 41-of-65 (63.1%) for 473 yds 31+ yards: Orton: 22-of-32 (68.8%) for 288 yds Cutler: 22-of-34 (64.7%) for 288 yds It’s close, but there you have it. Cutler is better in the short pass (1-20) categories, Orton is better in the long pass (21+) categories. Surprised? I’m not. Still think Orton is only a short-yardage QB? - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flea Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 UUGGHH we have Cutler & Knox from the trade & freak all around him. Do we need Orton to fail to feel good about this trade? really?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xvflutop Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 My question would be do those stats take into consideration how far the QB throws the ball or are they stats on how long the total pass play goes for. Because I do believe I've seen Marshall break a few intermediate routes into long gains. Not to mentions the tip ball to Stokely in the first game. Would that be a 30+ yard pass for a shorter completion that goes or a long play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Okay everyone. Lets all simmer down. No. Orton is not as good as he has been over the first half of the season, nor is he as bad as he was against Pitt in the 4th quarter. For once, we should have no need to "hate" on another QB. We have a franchise QB of our own. We don't have to put down another QB in order to prop up ours. All we need to do is f'ing protect our QB so he stays uprights. The only person who really has reason to, at least right now, hate on Orton is Drunkbomber OMGZ KYLE ORTON IS THA BEST QB EVA!!!!! HE WINS GAMEZ MAN!!!! Some things never change. He continues to stare down WR's and he continues to play like a** when teams blitz him nonstop. I hope all Denver fans are happy with their QB who maintains their lead but can never come down and win them a game against a real defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defiantgiant Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 UUGGHH we have Cutler & Knox from the trade & freak all around him. Do we need Orton to fail to feel good about this trade? really?? Yeah, I really wish Orton the best in Denver; there's no reason why we should be worried about whether he's putting up better numbers than Cutler or vice versa. Jon Gruden (who knows a couple of things about quarterbacks) hit it on the head when he said that Orton's stats are misleading because he runs a very low-risk offense: he's being asked to make a lot of short, high-percentage throws, stay in the pocket, and limit his mistakes as much as possible. Putting Cutler in that same offense would minimize his great strengths and maximize his weaknesses, just like putting Orton in Chicago's offense exposed his poor ball placement and inability to throw a deep out accurately. It's a question of what you want your quarterback to do, not what numbers he's putting up. Angelo and company saw a QB in Cutler who would let them run the offense they wanted to, and Josh McDaniels saw a QB in Orton who would let him run the offense he was trying to bring in from New England. Both teams had QBs who were wrong for their current offenses, but right for the other guy's offense. If I have one qualm about the Cutler trade, it's how much we gave up to get him, but I don't have any problem with Angelo making a big move for a QB who's perfect for our system. With the exception of the Green Bay game, Cutler's played very well, incredibly well considering his awful protection and the fact that our defense spots everybody three touchdowns in the first half. Once we can get the guy a halfway decent o-line and a defense that won't put him in a hole, I don't think anybody's going to question trading Orton to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Brilliant! Denver Broncos are a good football team with a quarterback. Chicago Bears are a football team with a good quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 No. But in an odd way, it kind of lessens the pain. If Orton were to have run the table and win a SB w/ the Broncos, we'd never hear the end of it from just about every team. We really never had to worry about it, but it kind of helps in an odd therapuetic way to see that he is as he was here. UUGGHH we have Cutler & Knox from the trade & freak all around him. Do we need Orton to fail to feel good about this trade? really?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Honestly this should be a non post....Orton looked bad but that's what happens when he has no running game and he's going up against a defense with Troy....you can't rest a game solely on his shoulders... Why do you gotta hate the guy b/c he was a serviceable QB for us prob the best one since Erik Kramer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Both Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler are good quarterbacks; Jay Cutler is just a much much better all around quarterback than KO. KO is fortunate to have the best offensive line in football and pro bowl level WR's to throw to. Cutler already showed Denver what he could do there and put up over 4500 yards last year. Now, imagine if he had the defense that Denver has now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Both Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler are good quarterbacks; Jay Cutler is just a much much better all around quarterback than KO. KO is fortunate to have the best offensive line in football and pro bowl level WR's to throw to. Cutler already showed Denver what he could do there and put up over 4500 yards last year. Now, imagine if he had the defense that Denver has now? Agreed 100% - thank you. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaiian bear Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Someone should tell Dave to check his numbers. According to Dave's stats on passes of: 21-30 yards: Orton: 38-of-59 (64.4%) for 513 yds Cutler: 41-of-65 (63.1%) for 473 yds 31+ yards: Orton: 22-of-32 (68.8%) for 288 yds Cutler: 22-of-34 (64.7%) for 288 yds Based on the # of completions, the MINIMUM yardage whould have to be: Orton - 38 completions of 21 yards is 798 yards Cutler - 41 completions of 21 yards is 861 yards Both - 22 completions of 31 yards is 682 yards And these are just the ones that stood out, just at a glance. Thanks for posting this as it has been driving me crazy living here in Denver and having to listen to people worship Orton and hate on Cutler. At the begginng of the season I bet my friend Dave lunch that Cutler would have a better year than Orton and mean more to his team. Dave emails me every week the stats and last friday this email pushed me over the edge and think the altitude has gotten to him or he is used to overating QB's like Romo as he is a Cowboys Fan. I was to pissed to respond ansd didn't. Let me know what your response would be to the folowing chain of emails? RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball From: David Sent: Fri 11/06/09 2:04 PM To: 'Joel K Unaltered statistics are facts, Joel. That “lies” quote refers to mis-interpretation and deception, not objective inference. Are you saying I altered or mis-calculated the figures? Seriously, if you didn’t believe in hard statistics, you wouldn’t be in finance. -------------------------- I’m trying to stay away from subjective opinion, but since you asked for it: Opinion: I wouldn’t take Orton over Romo. Their performance has been fairly similar, and Romo is the most experienced QB in Dallas’ system. However: 1. I’d take Orton as a backup for Romo anyday. 2. If I had the choice between him and Cutler, I’d take Orton, no question. I think he’s the better leader, more accurate passer, and the Cowboys saw last year what poor attitudes like Cutler’s can do to team dynamics. Sorry, but that’s how I see it. - Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joel K Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:42 PM To: David Subject: RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball There is a saying I like which is this: "there are lies, damn lies and then statistics!" My point is that stats are not facts! You seem to be enamored with Kyle and the stats thus far but would you be willing take Orton over Romo should Kyle hit FA at the end of the season? I am sure the answer would be no! If Orton and Cutler were both FA's and Romo was not the qb in DALLAS who do you take? I'm assuming you would take Kyle? I wonder what other Cowboy fans would think if you posted this a s hypothetical questions on the Dallas forum? That would be interesting to know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: david To: jpk Subject: RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:24:34 -0700 Joel, Of course you and I have different subjective opinions. That’s why our little wager was based on stats. It’s the only objective way to measure performance. ------------------------------- Oh, since you suggested it, here’s a comparison of the two with the Broncos: 2009 Orton vs. 2008 Cutler 1-10 yards: Orton: 43-of-70 (61.4%), 88.5 passer rating Cutler: 103-of-160 (64.4%), 90.3 passer rating 11-20 yards: Orton: 44-of-70 (62.9%), 80.9 passer rating Cutler: 106-of-160 (66.2%), 90.6 passer rating 21-30 yards: Orton: 38-of-59 (64.4%), 114.6 passer rating Cutler: 87-of-147 (59.2%), 80.3 passer rating 31+ yards: Orton: 22-of-32 (68.8%), 107.3 passer rating Cutler: 88-of-149 (59.1%), 82.0 passer rating It’s even more clear with this comparison. Cutler has an edge on short-yardage, but Orton is considerably more accurate with long-yardage passes. You may like Cutler better than Orton, or think Orton doesn’t throw the ball deep very well. But the facts tell a very different story. - Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joel Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 1:02 PM To: David Subject: RE: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball You can not rely on statistics alone as proof of who is a better downfield passer. I am forming my opinion based on what I have evaluated by watching both QB's. What do these stats look like when you take away Orton's immaculate deflection/ reception in game one? Clearly the stats do not take into consideration the awful OL play in Chicago or fluke plays. Why don't you compare what Orton does this year to what Cutler did last year statistically with Denver as the supporting cast on offense is essentially unchanged. The point is there is no way to compare these guys apples to apples from a performace factor and statistically speaking which is why I will take Cutler over Orton based on my persoanl observations. Another intersting thing will be to see how much the Broncos value and appreciate Kyle. Will the sign Orton to an extension; if so for how long and how much $ ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: david. To: jpk Subject: Orton, Cutler, and the Long Ball Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:25:50 -0700 Joel, Since you brought it up yesterday at the class, let’s take a look at Orton vs. Cutler on passing stats by length (links are to current 2009 stats): 1-10 yards: Orton: 43-of-70 (61.4%) for 352 yds Cutler: 45-of-70 (64.3%) for 398 yds 11-20 yards: Orton: 44-of-70 (62.9%) for 464 yds Cutler: 45-of-70 (64.3%) for 518 yds 21-30 yards: Orton: 38-of-59 (64.4%) for 513 yds Cutler: 41-of-65 (63.1%) for 473 yds 31+ yards: Orton: 22-of-32 (68.8%) for 288 yds Cutler: 22-of-34 (64.7%) for 288 yds It’s close, but there you have it. Cutler is better in the short pass (1-20) categories, Orton is better in the long pass (21+) categories. Surprised? I’m not. Still think Orton is only a short-yardage QB? - Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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