DaBearSox Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I mean I have to say...I am going to treat him just like Rex if he is going to play like Rex...Ups and downs all season... If that was Rex Grossman out there the offense could all lay down every play and we would still blame it on him... well, wait it must have been Grossman's fault b/c he had superior WRs out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 While some picks were not on him, I think most are bashing the hell out of Cutler. Cutler is in fact getting the Rex treatment, both nationally, locally, and on this board, and he deserves it. I still believe Cutler has far more talent than Rex, and that he will prove to be our franchise QB, but at the same time, there is just no question he played like Rex last night. I mean I have to say...I am going to treat him just like Rex if he is going to play like Rex...Ups and downs all season... If that was Rex Grossman out there the offense could all lay down every play and we would still blame it on him... well, wait it must have been Grossman's fault b/c he had superior WRs out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I still believe Cutler has far more talent than Rex I also believe that...but as I have been telling my brother all season...he has to cut out the stupid mistakes for me to look at him as the savior of this football team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Cutler deserves his blame, no doubt. Do you think Orton would be walking right now if he was playing behind this line. The Bears should be leading the NFL in sacks right, the only reason we are not is Cutler running for his life. Take GB who is leading the NFL in sacks, Rodgers has been good and bad as well but he has one of the best WR groups in the NFL. Where would you rank our WR's? Where would you rank our Run game? This is scarry how bad our team is right now. Let's not even talk about our O cord. Are these excuses, maybe but they are facts. If i have to hear another person talk about Orton im going to blow my own brains out. we would maybe have 1 W with Orton. I cant remember the last time i saw a oline play this shitty. add to the shit oline play that we have no run game and no true number 1 wr what do you expect. even if we won that game we still are in a very bad situation. Top QB's in NFL P Manning- do you see him running for his life, Reggie Wayne(true #1) and Dallas Clark, Brady- good oline, Randy Moss#1, Wes Welker, decent run game Palmer- time to throw, #2 RB in the NFL, #1 Wr in Ocho Brees- time to throw, do i really need to go over the weapons he has??? run game Big Ben- oline, run game, pass protection, good wr group Rivers- good oline, run game, gates, wr so so E Manning- oline, run game, ok wr's Brett- run game, oline r u kidding me, wr's not too bad with Brett Romo-oline, run game, miles austin has looked great lately, williams and witten Mcnabb-oline, run game time to throw, Jackson turning into a #1 Warner- Fitz, Boldin when not hurt time to throw, run game against us at least What do all these QB's have in common. 1. they all have decent oline that give them some type of protection 2. either a solid run game or a true #1 wr or both 3. some have 2 or 3 weapons Do the Bears have any of these??? Answer is NO. Hester would be a great #2, Knox and Bennet would be great #3's( i do think we could win with these WR's and Olsen with a Run game tho) Run game= puke! Pass protection=puke! What do the Bears have?? A talented QB would has looked great at times and horrible at times. 17 int's is alot. I would like to go back and see how many were his fault. For fucks sake 9 of them came in 2 games. Take our beloved Orton, he looked great the first 6 weeks. Baltimore and Pit finally got pressure while taking away the short passes and looked what happened, they lost and Orton looked like the Chicago Orton. For Fucks sake he has BM a true #1 wr and Royal. Orton had all the time in the world to throw up until game 7 and 8. You want Cutler to look like a top qb in the NFL, you have to give him time to throw first. Do we do that NO. Give him a run game or something that looks like a run game. Would i like a #1 WR yes, but i think we could win with the WR's we have if we had a run game and some pass protection. I am to point now that i am going to pray that Cutler makes it through the season not hurt. Does Cutler make some bad decision...yes. Would they hurt us as much as they are now if we had a run game producing some points??? I dont think so. Either way we can sit here and bitch and moan all day long. IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT WITH THE OLINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Cutler deserves his blame, no doubt. Do you think Orton would be walking right now if he was playing behind this line. The Bears should be leading the NFL in sacks right, the only reason we are not is Cutler running for his life. Take GB who is leading the NFL in sacks, Rodgers has been good and bad as well but he has one of the best WR groups in the NFL. Where would you rank our WR's? Where would you rank our Run game? This is scarry how bad our team is right now. Let's not even talk about our O cord. Are these excuses, maybe but they are facts. If i have to hear another person talk about Orton im going to blow my own brains out. we would maybe have 1 W with Orton. I cant remember the last time i saw a oline play this shitty. add to the shit oline play that we have no run game and no true number 1 wr what do you expect. even if we won that game we still are in a very bad situation. Top QB's in NFL P Manning- do you see him running for his life, Reggie Wayne(true #1) and Dallas Clark, Brady- good oline, Randy Moss#1, Wes Welker, decent run game Palmer- time to throw, #2 RB in the NFL, #1 Wr in Ocho Brees- time to throw, do i really need to go over the weapons he has??? run game Big Ben- oline, run game, pass protection, good wr group Rivers- good oline, run game, gates, wr so so E Manning- oline, run game, ok wr's Brett- run game, oline r u kidding me, wr's not too bad with Brett Romo-oline, run game, miles austin has looked great lately, williams and witten Mcnabb-oline, run game time to throw, Jackson turning into a #1 Warner- Fitz, Boldin when not hurt time to throw, run game against us at least What do all these QB's have in common. 1. they all have decent oline that give them some type of protection 2. either a solid run game or a true #1 wr or both 3. some have 2 or 3 weapons Do the Bears have any of these??? Answer is NO. Hester would be a great #2, Knox and Bennet would be great #3's( i do think we could win with these WR's and Olsen with a Run game tho) Run game= puke! Pass protection=puke! What do the Bears have?? A talented QB would has looked great at times and horrible at times. 17 int's is alot. I would like to go back and see how many were his fault. For fucks sake 9 of them came in 2 games. Take our beloved Orton, he looked great the first 6 weeks. Baltimore and Pit finally got pressure while taking away the short passes and looked what happened, they lost and Orton looked like the Chicago Orton. For Fucks sake he has BM a true #1 wr and Royal. Orton had all the time in the world to throw up until game 7 and 8. You want Cutler to look like a top qb in the NFL, you have to give him time to throw first. Do we do that NO. Give him a run game or something that looks like a run game. Would i like a #1 WR yes, but i think we could win with the WR's we have if we had a run game and some pass protection. I am to point now that i am going to pray that Cutler makes it through the season not hurt. Does Cutler make some bad decision...yes. Would they hurt us as much as they are now if we had a run game producing some points??? I dont think so. Either way we can sit here and bitch and moan all day long. IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT WITH THE OLINE. Nice reply but please watch the language. We never know who is reading this. I agree with your thoughts. We have to fix the O-line. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Be careful not to make this mistake. My position is well known, and I agree w/ basically everything you have said. At the same time, be careful not to go so far as to excuse Cutler for the decisions he has made. W/ all the OL, WR and Run game woes last night, if he played smarter football, we get a couple FGs and win the game. We can discuss which ints were on him and which were on other factors, but at the end of the day, when you have 5 picks on your stat sheet, and frankly, numerous others that could have been picked off, then part of the problem is poor decision making. I say be careful because Cutler needs to learn a lesson from games like this. That doesn't mean he has to totally change, but he does need to learn and realize he doesn't have to try and win the game with each pass. He needs to learn that sometimes, it is better to take a sack or throw it away than to try and thread the needle between 4 defenders. There are plenty of reasons why this offense sucks, but while not ignoring any of it, we can not excuse Cutler for a performance like last night. If we do, he may never learn. If he never learns, we may as well have Rex back. Yea, Cutler is better in every way, but if he doesn't learn from games like this, his talent will be a burden as much as an asset. Orton was limited as a QB, but at least he knew his limitations. Cutler needs to learn his limitations. Cutler deserves his blame, no doubt. Do you think Orton would be walking right now if he was playing behind this line. The Bears should be leading the NFL in sacks right, the only reason we are not is Cutler running for his life. Take GB who is leading the NFL in sacks, Rodgers has been good and bad as well but he has one of the best WR groups in the NFL. Where would you rank our WR's? Where would you rank our Run game? This is scarry how bad our team is right now. Let's not even talk about our O cord. Are these excuses, maybe but they are facts. If i have to hear another person talk about Orton im going to blow my own brains out. we would maybe have 1 W with Orton. I cant remember the last time i saw a oline play this shitty. add to the shit oline play that we have no run game and no true number 1 wr what do you expect. even if we won that game we still are in a very bad situation. Top QB's in NFL P Manning- do you see him running for his life, Reggie Wayne(true #1) and Dallas Clark, Brady- good oline, Randy Moss#1, Wes Welker, decent run game Palmer- time to throw, #2 RB in the NFL, #1 Wr in Ocho Brees- time to throw, do i really need to go over the weapons he has??? run game Big Ben- oline, run game, pass protection, good wr group Rivers- good oline, run game, gates, wr so so E Manning- oline, run game, ok wr's Brett- run game, oline r u kidding me, wr's not too bad with Brett Romo-oline, run game, miles austin has looked great lately, williams and witten Mcnabb-oline, run game time to throw, Jackson turning into a #1 Warner- Fitz, Boldin when not hurt time to throw, run game against us at least What do all these QB's have in common. 1. they all have decent oline that give them some type of protection 2. either a solid run game or a true #1 wr or both 3. some have 2 or 3 weapons Do the Bears have any of these??? Answer is NO. Hester would be a great #2, Knox and Bennet would be great #3's( i do think we could win with these WR's and Olsen with a Run game tho) Run game= puke! Pass protection=puke! What do the Bears have?? A talented QB would has looked great at times and horrible at times. 17 int's is alot. I would like to go back and see how many were his fault. For fucks sake 9 of them came in 2 games. Take our beloved Orton, he looked great the first 6 weeks. Baltimore and Pit finally got pressure while taking away the short passes and looked what happened, they lost and Orton looked like the Chicago Orton. For Fucks sake he has BM a true #1 wr and Royal. Orton had all the time in the world to throw up until game 7 and 8. You want Cutler to look like a top qb in the NFL, you have to give him time to throw first. Do we do that NO. Give him a run game or something that looks like a run game. Would i like a #1 WR yes, but i think we could win with the WR's we have if we had a run game and some pass protection. I am to point now that i am going to pray that Cutler makes it through the season not hurt. Does Cutler make some bad decision...yes. Would they hurt us as much as they are now if we had a run game producing some points??? I dont think so. Either way we can sit here and bitch and moan all day long. IT ALL STARTS UP FRONT WITH THE OLINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Be careful not to make this mistake. My position is well known, and I agree w/ basically everything you have said. At the same time, be careful not to go so far as to excuse Cutler for the decisions he has made. W/ all the OL, WR and Run game woes last night, if he played smarter football, we get a couple FGs and win the game. We can discuss which ints were on him and which were on other factors, but at the end of the day, when you have 5 picks on your stat sheet, and frankly, numerous others that could have been picked off, then part of the problem is poor decision making. I say be careful because Cutler needs to learn a lesson from games like this. That doesn't mean he has to totally change, but he does need to learn and realize he doesn't have to try and win the game with each pass. He needs to learn that sometimes, it is better to take a sack or throw it away than to try and thread the needle between 4 defenders. There are plenty of reasons why this offense sucks, but while not ignoring any of it, we can not excuse Cutler for a performance like last night. If we do, he may never learn. If he never learns, we may as well have Rex back. Yea, Cutler is better in every way, but if he doesn't learn from games like this, his talent will be a burden as much as an asset. Orton was limited as a QB, but at least he knew his limitations. Cutler needs to learn his limitations. sorry about the foul mouth, im still trying to get the puke taste out from last night, it wont happen again. as for making excuses, i wasnt. that is why i started with Cutler deserves blame no doubt. If Cutler doesnt throw those two redzone picks and we kick FG's we win. That is all fine and dandy but we still have major issues. Major issuses with no first round and second draft picks. I hope Gaines Adams pans out! The Bears need to pick up a true #1 wr, maybe BM from Denver and some oline through FA. You put BM and Hester as our number 1 and 2 wr's with olsen at TE with an oline that can block and provide some sort of run game you could be talking about a top 5 offense. Take Brett with GB all those years. He threw alot of picks, but won alot of games. He also had good running attacks too. People forgot about alot of those picks because they won games. notice i say "they" won games. Brett will go down as one of the best to ever play, while holding the record for most int's. just saying. as for Cutler learning from this game...you are 1000% right. he has some learning to do. you cant rationalize 17 int's through 9 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Orton was limited as a QB, but at least he knew his limitations. Cutler needs to learn his limitations. Great line... I was just pointing this out to my brother to prove a point... the rams are horrible in every facet of the game (except RB) however have only given up 7 picks...when adjusting for attempts its would be 9.75 ok lets make it an even 10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eback Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 When every QB that comes to Chicago plays lower than expected when do you blame Chicago (staff/ownership/fans)? Obviously some of these QB's did much better before or after they came here. I swear we are cursed at this position! Head Scratcher- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 To be honest, Stl may counter the argument more than make it. The Rams have not thrown as many picks, thus you might argue they do a better job of playing within their limitations. On the other hand, they have only won 1 game this year, while losing 7. Playing within your limitations is all well and good, but when your offense puts up an average of 9.6 points a game, while getting shut out twice, I am not sure it isn't better to take some shots and push those limitations a bit more. Great line... I was just pointing this out to my brother to prove a point... the rams are horrible in every facet of the game (except RB) however have only given up 7 picks...when adjusting for attempts its would be 9.75 ok lets make it an even 10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 To be honest, Stl may counter the argument more than make it. The Rams have not thrown as many picks, thus you might argue they do a better job of playing within their limitations. On the other hand, they have only won 1 game this year, while losing 7. Playing within your limitations is all well and good, but when your offense puts up an average of 9.6 points a game, while getting shut out twice, I am not sure it isn't better to take some shots and push those limitations a bit more. true and I love the counter... but he acts as if Jay Cutler is the savior and he can do no wrong and that losing our drafts picks is not a big deal... He gets angry when I am like would I have made the trade when it happened yes....would I make the trade now knowing how many holes we have to fill...no... Unless the bears go buck wild with spending next year since there is no cap, this team is in trouble for years down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 With the understanding that I neither think Cutler is our savior, nor incapable of doing wrong, I would make a couple points: Knowing what I know now, I would still make the trade. Yes, we have a lot of work to do, and much to build, but it is far better to have a franchise QB to build around. Your can work on building up your team for years, but w/o a frachise QB, it rarely seems to last. You might have a good year, or even two, but w/o a franchise QB, you rarely find a team sustain that sort of success. There have been a couple teams in recent history to win a SB (or just make it) w/o a franchise QB in place, but rarely do they sustain that same level of success for long. On the other hand, when you look at the teams who not only achieve a high level of success, but do so over the long haul, I think all would have one thing in common. A franchise QB. So while we have a lot of work to do, I would much rather be in a situation where we have a franchise QB in place, and build up around him, rather than the situation we would be in otherwise, where we not only have to rebuild, but do so w/o a single player to build around. There is also a fairly pessimistic way of looking back at the trade. What would Angelo have done w/ the picks if we had not traded them away. History has not proven that Angelo's picks would have been difference makers anyway, and thus just because we would have more picks to work with does not mean we would have been in a better situation. Finally, I would throw this out there. Lets say we don't make the trade. While a few would disagree, I think most would agree Orton (on this team) would not have looked like a franchise QB, thus there is at least a decent change Angelo would have been forced to use one of those high picks he sent to Denver instead on a rookie QB. If you think about it that way, we have not lost as much in trading away the picks. true and I love the counter... but he acts as if Jay Cutler is the savior and he can do no wrong and that losing our drafts picks is not a big deal... He gets angry when I am like would I have made the trade when it happened yes....would I make the trade now knowing how many holes we have to fill...no... Unless the bears go buck wild with spending next year since there is no cap, this team is in trouble for years down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 true and I love the counter... but he acts as if Jay Cutler is the savior and he can do no wrong and that losing our drafts picks is not a big deal... He gets angry when I am like would I have made the trade when it happened yes....would I make the trade now knowing how many holes we have to fill...no... Unless the bears go buck wild with spending next year since there is no cap, this team is in trouble for years down the road. You wouldnt make the trade now? Out of curiosity who would be our quarterback? Thats what we need is JA with more draft picks and no quarterback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 He played a horrible game. He has no excuses. He has to do a better job protecting the ball - period. Peace I can't say that. 3 of the 5 weren't his fault and the 5th one, well he should have dumped it earlier but by the time he had scrambled that was it, he had to throw it. he throws it away, clock is gone anyway, imo. I feel so so bad for Jay. He's got absolutely nothing to help him out. This is one of the most inept teams I've ever seen offensively. I've never seen a team run as poorly as this team does. And than our WR's are just so bad at running routes. They are at least making catches for the most part, but they stop on so many routes and just fail to get open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Regarding WR, I'm still convinced, as I have been all along, that we still need a real #1. Just becasue Hester catches the most passes or gets the most yards, doesn't make him a "#1". Millen or the other buffoon mentioned during the game that you need a guy that is a pro WR. Someone playing the part all his athletic career basically. We still need that. The savvy is not there with the guys we have. All can be great #2's, but we still have no #1. My point all along was that (a) OL has to be the priority and ( I wanted to give this group some opportunity to develop. While the WRs have developed more than I think some have expected, I agree a better receiving option would benefit us all around. Our WRs are doing some good things, but the negatives just don't seem to be changing. I still see weak route running. I still see an inability to get open. I still see WRs w/ their backs to the QB when the QB is running for his life. Also, I am so damn tired of watching our WRs run a route upfield, stop and turn, but not come back to the ball at all, allowing the DB an opportunity to move up and get into position. I still argue OL is far more a need than WR, but last night went a long way for those who feel WR should be a high priority as well. I fear Cutler may be a bust. I really do. At least with this staff. I don't agree w/ this at all. I think Cutler simply is not Superman, as many here (myself included) hoped. He can not get it done by himself. Not only must we as fans realize this, but so must Cutler. To me, last night it just seemed like Cutler felt the need to win the game single handed, and essentially lost it in the process. I believe Cutler will be the franchise QB we had hoped for, but (a) we need to build around him and ( he needs to realize he isn't superman. Great great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBearSox Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 With the understanding that I neither think Cutler is our savior, nor incapable of doing wrong, I would make a couple points: Knowing what I know now, I would still make the trade. Yes, we have a lot of work to do, and much to build, but it is far better to have a franchise QB to build around. Your can work on building up your team for years, but w/o a frachise QB, it rarely seems to last. You might have a good year, or even two, but w/o a franchise QB, you rarely find a team sustain that sort of success. There have been a couple teams in recent history to win a SB (or just make it) w/o a franchise QB in place, but rarely do they sustain that same level of success for long. On the other hand, when you look at the teams who not only achieve a high level of success, but do so over the long haul, I think all would have one thing in common. A franchise QB. So while we have a lot of work to do, I would much rather be in a situation where we have a franchise QB in place, and build up around him, rather than the situation we would be in otherwise, where we not only have to rebuild, but do so w/o a single player to build around. There is also a fairly pessimistic way of looking back at the trade. What would Angelo have done w/ the picks if we had not traded them away. History has not proven that Angelo's picks would have been difference makers anyway, and thus just because we would have more picks to work with does not mean we would have been in a better situation. Finally, I would throw this out there. Lets say we don't make the trade. While a few would disagree, I think most would agree Orton (on this team) would not have looked like a franchise QB, thus there is at least a decent change Angelo would have been forced to use one of those high picks he sent to Denver instead on a rookie QB. If you think about it that way, we have not lost as much in trading away the picks. It is a very very slippery slope when deciding if Angelo draft picks would pan out or if the trade was the way to go. I decided to throw out the Angelo aspect and just look at the picks...also the Gaines Adams trade factored into one of those picks. The problem I come back to is what makes Jay Cutler a franchise QB...b/c up to this point he has shown flashes of brilliance but then made some stupid stupid mistakes...and that makes me think of Rex Grossman our last "Franchise" QB. You have to build a franchise to make a franchise QB. Something this organization has failed to do since the mid eighties. I feel if Lovie is kept around these next 2 years under contract it is detrimental to building a franchise...Angelo bears the burden of being the sole decider when it comes to picks but I believe his staff has a lot of say when going into drafts/trades. If they are intent on building something why waste 2 years of this QB coming into his prime to just go and shake it all up with something new and different. all and all I guess after writing i have concluded to myself that i am either or on the trade, however this organization needs a solid foundation to put the "franchise" title on any player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Before the season, our lack of weapons at WR was well known. While some thought it would be better, the OL was far from a known asset. Entering the season, I think many fans believed Cutler to be so good that he would still win w/ a weak OL and a lack of weapons. That was the thinking behind the superman comment. You say you are not expecting superman, and I agree there is flat out no excuse for those picks. At the same time, are we not expecting a superman effort if we expect a QB to play behind this OL, w/ this group of weapons, absolutely no run game, and questionable playcalling, to win and look good doing it? I'm telling you, Payton Manning would struggle if he were inserted into our offense as it is. No, he would not throw 5 picks. But he would not look very good either. Would Orton look better? Still don't see it. Didn't Orton just lose 3 picks? No, he didn't throw 5, but he also has a superior OL and weapons to support him. I don't think there is a perception, much less a reality, that we got fleeced from Denver. Even when Orton was playing at a high level, most were still calling him a system QB, and not making out like he was special. In the last two games, he (in public opinion) has not only fallen back to Earth, but has done so in fairly dramatic fashion. When all is said and done, I think we will still look the better for the trade. As bad as last night was, when talking about the future, I think we are still absolutely talking about building around Cutler. Assuming the same reads were made, which isn't guaranteed, both Manning and Orton would have thrown at least three. The Hester slip, the Umpire bump, and the blatant non-call on the defensive PI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerBear7 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 And the one that really irks me is Kellen Davis playing like a little girl out there. Are you kidding me Kellen Davis? You're 6'7", 260+, and you get knocked out of the way like nothing? Come on now, play with some desire and fight for the ball. I thought that this was actually a very good play by Jay after funneling up the snap off the ground like a middle infileder, he stepped up in the collapsing pocket and made a good reed and threw the ball to an open TE who simply got out hustled on the play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Look, Jay Cutler lost this game for the Bears. That's the long and short of it. His first pick was absolutely, positively unforgivable. He should have had his ass reamed when he came to the sidelines. THAT play turned the entire complexion of the game. It reminded me of Harbaugh audibling that play in 1992 and it not only turned that game around but I believe it turned the entire season around. WTF was he thinking? We did not mortgage our future for a taller version of rex grossman but right now, that's exactly what we have. What this organization needs to do is decide what they want to be when they grow up but first and foremost, Jay Cutler needs to decide what HE wants to be when he grows up. He's fixable but unfortunately, not by anyone on our staff. He needs a strong hand to get his attention. Ya know, what I liked about Singletary Thursday night was that when Nedney, a veteran kicker came off the field after missing that FG, Singletary was right there telling him HEY we cannot have that, I won't have that. Lovie Smith should have been there to tell Cutler, hey, you did NOT have to throw that ball. i don't want to see anymore of that. You just gave away points. You worked this team down the field like a pro and crapped down your leg at crunch time like a doggone rookie. What were you thinking? He's gotta see immediate consequences of those actions. This aw shucks approach Smithy takes to managing on field issues and problems is failing this team miserably. In the end though, Cutler deserves every bit of crap heaped on him. IT was HIS fault those picks, or at least the majority of them took place. He should be asking himself, how do I want to be remembered? As a guy who threw for 4,000 yds a season and lost every key game he ever played in because he could not contain his composure and threw the games away or somebody that threw for 3000 yds a season, who knew when and where to throw it away or eat it but led his team to numerous key game victories. The coaching staff is what it is. I think we all know by now that none of these bums is much good at developing talent ANY FREAKIN WHERE. Talk about Devin Hester? Great. Devin Hester is an incredible athlete who is showing his athleticism every week. BUT, Devin Hester is as dumb as a stump, he is NOT progressing as a WR but more just getting his hands on the ball when he can and making something happen. He will NEVER EVER EVER be a #1 WR and SHOULDN'T even be a #1 WR on the Bears. Frankly, it's an insult to guys who have spent yrs honing their WR skills to think anyone, let alone our group of keystone cop coaches could make him a #1 WR. When all is said and done, the most polished WRs on this team will be Bennett and Aromashudo. Of course, we'll probably have to wait on Aromashudo until we are completely out of the playoff picture since we're too busy trying to make Devin Hester into something he isn't. Johnny Knox is an unknown. He has brilliant flashes but we are failing him too. WTF he and Hester are doing running 7-8 yd routes is beyond understanding but hey, that's our coaches. I guess to sew up or just graciously end this rant, We all know that Cutler has the talent but he desparately needs a strong handed coach to reign him in or he will end up on the scrap heap 4 yrs from now or someone who knows how to get the most out of him will either trade us for him. The changes have to come form the top. That means all of em. Angelo, Smith and Turner. But since the common belief is that the McCaskeys are too stupid to see the forest thru the trees, maybe the fans ought to take it upon themselves to gently remind Cutler by bringing some signs to the game for him to read: Hey Jay, 3s okay. Jay, let someone else thread that needle. Jay, THINK THINK THINK. Maybe he'll get the message and if that doesn't work, HEY JAY STOP IT !!!! might work. But I hope he realizes he's on his own for the time being so any improvement is going to have to come from within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Look, Jay Cutler lost this game for the Bears. That's the long and short of it. His first pick was absolutely, positively unforgivable. He should have had his ass reamed when he came to the sidelines. THAT play turned the entire complexion of the game. It reminded me of Harbaugh audibling that play in 1992 and it not only turned that game around but I believe it turned the entire season around. WTF was he thinking? We did not mortgage our future for a taller version of rex grossman but right now, that's exactly what we have. What this organization needs to do is decide what they want to be when they grow up but first and foremost, Jay Cutler needs to decide what HE wants to be when he grows up. He's fixable but unfortunately, not by anyone on our staff. He needs a strong hand to get his attention. Ya know, what I liked about Singletary Thursday night was that when Nedney, a veteran kicker came off the field after missing that FG, Singletary was right there telling him HEY we cannot have that, I won't have that. Lovie Smith should have been there to tell Cutler, hey, you did NOT have to throw that ball. i don't want to see anymore of that. You just gave away points. You worked this team down the field like a pro and crapped down your leg at crunch time like a doggone rookie. What were you thinking? He's gotta see immediate consequences of those actions. This aw shucks approach Smithy takes to managing on field issues and problems is failing this team miserably. In the end though, Cutler deserves every bit of crap heaped on him. IT was HIS fault those picks, or at least the majority of them took place. He should be asking himself, how do I want to be remembered? As a guy who threw for 4,000 yds a season and lost every key game he ever played in because he could not contain his composure and threw the games away or somebody that threw for 3000 yds a season, who knew when and where to throw it away or eat it but led his team to numerous key game victories. The coaching staff is what it is. I think we all know by now that none of these bums is much good at developing talent ANY FREAKIN WHERE. Talk about Devin Hester? Great. Devin Hester is an incredible athlete who is showing his athleticism every week. BUT, Devin Hester is as dumb as a stump, he is NOT progressing as a WR but more just getting his hands on the ball when he can and making something happen. He will NEVER EVER EVER be a #1 WR and SHOULDN'T even be a #1 WR on the Bears. Frankly, it's an insult to guys who have spent yrs honing their WR skills to think anyone, let alone our group of keystone cop coaches could make him a #1 WR. When all is said and done, the most polished WRs on this team will be Bennett and Aromashudo. Of course, we'll probably have to wait on Aromashudo until we are completely out of the playoff picture since we're too busy trying to make Devin Hester into something he isn't. Johnny Knox is an unknown. He has brilliant flashes but we are failing him too. WTF he and Hester are doing running 7-8 yd routes is beyond understanding but hey, that's our coaches. I guess to sew up or just graciously end this rant, We all know that Cutler has the talent but he desparately needs a strong handed coach to reign him in or he will end up on the scrap heap 4 yrs from now or someone who knows how to get the most out of him will either trade us for him. The changes have to come form the top. That means all of em. Angelo, Smith and Turner. But since the common belief is that the McCaskeys are too stupid to see the forest thru the trees, maybe the fans ought to take it upon themselves to gently remind Cutler by bringing some signs to the game for him to read: Hey Jay, 3s okay. Jay, let someone else thread that needle. Jay, THINK THINK THINK. Maybe he'll get the message and if that doesn't work, HEY JAY STOP IT !!!! might work. But I hope he realizes he's on his own for the time being so any improvement is going to have to come from within. I completely agree the loss is on Jay. I disagree on Devin. I think he has progressed at WR. Unfortunately, they are paying him as a #1. He will never be a #1 and that is the problem. He is, however, leaps and bounds better that he was last yr and the yr before. Where do you get that Aromashudo is one of the 2 most polished receivers on the team? He has bounced around the league for 3 yrs and made 1 nice play this preseason. I would say we need to see more of him before we can actually judge him. As I stated in another post, I think that definately needs to happen. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfoligno Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I can't agree to so simply say "this loss is on Jay". No question what so ever he was a big part of it, but that entire offense flat out played like crap. OL - I think I read Cutler was pressured or hit around 20 times. That is freakishly high. RT was benched, and so was the RG. Kreutz was snapping into the ground all night. Garza had numerous penalties and Williams just looked like crap. This entire unit had their worst game of the year, and did so against a very mediocre (or worse) unit. RB - Sorry, but as much as people want to forgive Forte, his just does not seem to have the burst or pop he used to. He looks hesitant and frankly, weaker than in the past. The OL is as bad as I can ever recall, but that does not mean Forte's play isn't part of the problem too. Just like Cutler doesn't get absolved of blame for the poor play of the OL, nor does Forte. Yes, he did look good on the screens, but that is a small part of the game only. Hey, the OL looked good on the screens too, but I don't see anyone looking to say they had a good game. WR - Pathetic. Hester I still think has develed this year as a WR, but this last game, he looked worse than I can ever recall. WRs were otherwise struggling to get open, and as usual failing to came back and hep out the QB when he was pressured. This does not even touch on Turner. Cutler played a bad game. Besides the picks, he had numerous others which were either poor decisions, poor passes, or potentially more picks. He simply had a bad game. But I can't say the loss is on him. The offense as a whole played too poorly to pin the loss on any one person. I completely agree the loss is on Jay. I disagree on Devin. I think he has progressed at WR. Unfortunately, they are paying him as a #1. He will never be a #1 and that is the problem. He is, however, leaps and bounds better that he was last yr and the yr before. Where do you get that Aromashudo is one of the 2 most polished receivers on the team? He has bounced around the league for 3 yrs and made 1 nice play this preseason. I would say we need to see more of him before we can actually judge him. As I stated in another post, I think that definately needs to happen. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I completely agree the loss is on Jay. I disagree on Devin. I think he has progressed at WR. Unfortunately, they are paying him as a #1. He will never be a #1 and that is the problem. He is, however, leaps and bounds better that he was last yr and the yr before. Where do you get that Aromashudo is one of the 2 most polished receivers on the team? He has bounced around the league for 3 yrs and made 1 nice play this preseason. I would say we need to see more of him before we can actually judge him. As I stated in another post, I think that definately needs to happen. Peace Devin Hester is as good as he's going to get. Unfortunately for us, that means this coaching staff will continue to try and trot him out as our #1WR which is a dreadful mistake. It takes away from PT from guys like Aromashudo who have better size and are stronger than him that we really need. Hester is great if he gets by a CB otherwise, he's a #2 or 3 guy who is running 7-8 yd outs. We simply don't need that. From him OR Knox. I made a predicition and I'll stick by it. At the end of the season, if Aramoshudo isn't one of our most polished, I'll eat my words. I don't really care where he's been but I only know of him not making it at Indy before we got him but regardless, THAT does not mean he doesn't have better skills than hester. I believe he does and for THAT reason alone am glad he's here. He might be the only WR we have capable of fighting for a ball. The rest look pretty weak to me. I think we've also seen that teams do make mistakes sometimes letting talent go too early. Let's see, we had Thomas Jones, Ced benson, Mike Gandy, Marc Colombo just to name a few. They all look pretty darn good right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 I can't agree to so simply say "this loss is on Jay". No question what so ever he was a big part of it, but that entire offense flat out played like crap. OL - I think I read Cutler was pressured or hit around 20 times. That is freakishly high. RT was benched, and so was the RG. Kreutz was snapping into the ground all night. Garza had numerous penalties and Williams just looked like crap. This entire unit had their worst game of the year, and did so against a very mediocre (or worse) unit. RB - Sorry, but as much as people want to forgive Forte, his just does not seem to have the burst or pop he used to. He looks hesitant and frankly, weaker than in the past. The OL is as bad as I can ever recall, but that does not mean Forte's play isn't part of the problem too. Just like Cutler doesn't get absolved of blame for the poor play of the OL, nor does Forte. Yes, he did look good on the screens, but that is a small part of the game only. Hey, the OL looked good on the screens too, but I don't see anyone looking to say they had a good game. WR - Pathetic. Hester I still think has develed this year as a WR, but this last game, he looked worse than I can ever recall. WRs were otherwise struggling to get open, and as usual failing to came back and hep out the QB when he was pressured. This does not even touch on Turner. Cutler played a bad game. Besides the picks, he had numerous others which were either poor decisions, poor passes, or potentially more picks. He simply had a bad game. But I can't say the loss is on him. The offense as a whole played too poorly to pin the loss on any one person. Nobody's demanding you agree with the assessment but please don't tell me that you didn't think to yourself after watching Cutler drive this team methodically down the field on that drive only to watch him throw a silly pick, oh no, here we go again. Because 90% of the people I talk to about it did. If we take the 3 on that drive, we only need 3 at the end. Plain and simple. Gould wins it for us. Look, you can try to find issues with our WRs. I agree with those issues. Right now, our WRs are simply NONexistant. THEY STINK. None of them seem to be able to get separation and this has been going on for weeks. Hester included. It still does not negate the fact that Cutler blew it with those picks. I know he's pressing, everyone does. Why do you think we're seeing the schemes we're seeing? But Cutler has to be smarter than that. If he wants to roll out and move that pocket, doggone it, he has to tell Turner, look you idiot, you get some schemes together that allow me to get outside so I can have more time. Those are things he must do to fix this thing but don't sit there and tell me that Cutler wasn't the biggest culprit in this loss with 5 picks. That's just silly. I'll give the rest of these guys a solid kick in the ass for their crappy offensive play but Cutler needs a kick in the nuts for his stupidity. He should know better. This whole thing is about trust now. NOBODY on that offense trusts anyone and nobody on that defense trusts anyone. I'm sure Cutler probably thought hey, if I don't get 7, this defense is going to give up points all day, I can't afford to take just three. I wouldn't blame him if he didn't trust the defense, who does? He has to know though, that when he makes that decision, he just took 3 points from us and ANY points for an offense that has struggled as bad as this one is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Devin Hester is as good as he's going to get. Unfortunately for us, that means this coaching staff will continue to try and trot him out as our #1WR which is a dreadful mistake. It takes away from PT from guys like Aromashudo who have better size and are stronger than him that we really need. Hester is great if he gets by a CB otherwise, he's a #2 or 3 guy who is running 7-8 yd outs. We simply don't need that. From him OR Knox. I made a predicition and I'll stick by it. At the end of the season, if Aramoshudo isn't one of our most polished, I'll eat my words. I don't really care where he's been but I only know of him not making it at Indy before we got him but regardless, THAT does not mean he doesn't have better skills than hester. I believe he does and for THAT reason alone am glad he's here. He might be the only WR we have capable of fighting for a ball. The rest look pretty weak to me. I think we've also seen that teams do make mistakes sometimes letting talent go too early. Let's see, we had Thomas Jones, Ced benson, Mike Gandy, Marc Colombo just to name a few. They all look pretty darn good right now. Per the Bears website, DA is 6'2" 201 and Hester is 5'11" 190. Being 3 inches taller, he should have at least another 10 pounds on Hester. Iglesias is 6'!" and 205. DA was also with Miami (cut in preseason) and Washington (on their practice squad). Because he was with Indy, doesn't mean he has a better skill set than Hester, Davis, or Iglesias. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDaddy Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Per the Bears website, DA is 6'2" 201 and Hester is 5'11" 190. Being 3 inches taller, he should have at least another 10 pounds on Hester. Iglesias is 6'!" and 205. DA was also with Miami (cut in preseason) and Washington (on their practice squad). Because he was with Indy, doesn't mean he has a better skill set than Hester, Davis, or Iglesias. Peace Listen, if you wanna hang your hat on a wannabe WR you go right ahead. Me? I'll stick with guys who have done it for awhile and that info from the site about Aromashudo's weight may not be right. I'd be willing to bet he's 210-212. Because he got cut doesn't mean he isn't better than hester or Iglesias. Keep him in the lineup so we have someone over 6 ft so we can see what he's capable of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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