WR ran the wrong route

[nfoligno]

From ESPN Chicago,

 

Talking about the first series after halftime, after Knox returned it to the 8, Turner said,

 

"On (the) second down play, his [Cutler's] primary receiver ran the wrong route," Turner said. "So he's [Cutler] looking for a guy that's supposed to be there, who would have been wide open, so then he gets sacked."

 

Turner refused to identify the receiver in question.

 

"It's easy to blame the quarterback, but everybody has to execute," Turner said. "That's kind of been the story. Especially in the red zone, we seem to botch base plays we've had in, and not give ourselves a chance."

 

Turner has taken most of the blame for the offense, but how does an NFL receiver run the wrong route in that situation? That's not on the offensive coordinator, it's on the player.

 

Dickerson seems to try and give Turner an excuse here saying he takes heat for plays that don't work, but if the WRs run the wrong routes, how can we know. He has a point. The plays Turner draws up may well be good plays.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND! As the OC, it is Turner's job to make sure players know the plays, and their assignments. If this was an isolated incident, maybe you could simply put it on the WR and not bash Turner so much. But this is far from an isolated incident. A coaches job is not simply to write up and call plays, but to also teach and develop players. We have veteran WRs and TEs who still run the wrong routes, and that has to fall on Turner, and Drake.

 

And for the record, I am not arguing Turner would be a good OC is judged solely on playcalling. Far from it. I am simply making the point that even if you did feel he called a good game, development of players is also a part of the job, and you can not simply give him a pass when players continue to make the same dumb arce mistakes over and over again.

[adam]

I would not be surprised if this happens a lot more than anyone knows. The whole team is poorly coached. There is no execution, no crispness, no discipline. It almost seems like they are just going thru the motions now. Like they know the season is over, so why bother giving 100%.

[jason]

Echoing both posts here, there is no excuse.

 

Turner is not a good OC because he doesn't call a good game AND he doesn't improve players. And he's just one of the coaches on this staff who refuse to instill discipline or a solid gameplan.

[jason]

From a different perspective, this doesn't surprise me, and only adds fuel to the idea that all the INTs aren't Cutler's fault.

 

Blatant Defensive PIs not called: 2 or 3

Running into the Umpire: 1

Receivers ran the wrong route: 2 or 3

Receivers fell down: 2 or 3

Receivers tipped balls: 2 or 3

 

Even a modest approximation puts about half of the INTs on someone else, or at least shares a good majority of the blame. And that's not even giving Turner any blame for constantly setting up Cutler and the offense for failure with his boneheaded calls.

[adam]

From a different perspective, this doesn't surprise me, and only adds fuel to the idea that all the INTs aren't Cutler's fault.

 

Blatant Defensive INTs not called: 2 or 3

Running into the Umpire: 1

Receivers ran the wrong route: 2 or 3

Receivers fell down: 2 or 3

Receivers tipped balls: 2 or 3

 

Even a modest approximation puts about half of the INTs on someone else, or at least shares a good majority of the blame. And that's not even giving Turner any blame for constantly setting up Cutler and the offense for failure with his boneheaded calls.

 

Then add zero time in the pocket and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

Also, I have only seen a handful of times where the receiver broke up a potential INT. Most of the time the receiver just gives up on the play resulting in an easy pick. I would take offensive pass interference over an INT any day.

[nfoligno]

I personally have not made a big deal about the overall number of pics, and thus I am not making a big deal either about who is to blame on each and every pic. The reality is though, you can do this with every QB in the league. Do you honestly believe all pics were 100% Rex' fault?

 

Even Cutler bashers likely can't say all the pics are his fault.

 

W/ that said....

 

Many of the pics are his fault, and many others throws were bad throws/decisions which could have been picked off. So while the number is higher than it "should be," at the same time, that number may be lower than what it "could be."

 

Also Jason, while you and I agree 100% on OL, I am swinging back to the belief that WR is a legit need. WR is still not close to the level of need as OL. If we do not fix this OL, it really doesn't matter if we have Boldin, Brandon Marshall, or whoever is the flavor of the day.

 

At the same time, I have also come to believe that, if the OL were fixed, this group of WRs would not be enough. Enough for our offense to be good. Sure. Enough for our offense to be what it should be w/ a QB of Cutler's caliber? No.

 

Blame Turner. You have done that for years. Blame Drake. I have blamed him for years. But at the end of the day, some level of responsibility has to fall at the feet of the players, and even if the coaching/teaching is not the best, at some point you have to also question of coachable/teachable the student is. Hester was always considered lacking in the intelligence department. Olsen wasn't considered much smarter. What the hell is it about these Miami players?

 

While I am happy to go off on the coaching, simply running the correct route really does have to put the player into question. I give a "slight" pass if it was Knox, as he is a rookie, but no other, not even Bennett, should make such a mistake. I tend to believe it was either Olsen or Hester, as the play discussed above refers to the #1 option, and that is not likely to be Knox.

 

Anyway, I just think we lack a weapon defenses have to worry about. We can talk all day about speed, but Hester just doesn't seem able to learn and do the small things that make such a difference. We have a bunch of nice #2s or #3s, but I don't think we have a #1. Now, you can definitely get by and even play well w/o a legit #1, but if we want to see Cutler lead our offense to that level we hoped for, I think we need to get him a playmaking receiver. Again, OL is the priority. But more than before, I just believe WR is a need.

 

From a different perspective, this doesn't surprise me, and only adds fuel to the idea that all the INTs aren't Cutler's fault.

 

Blatant Defensive INTs not called: 2 or 3

Running into the Umpire: 1

Receivers ran the wrong route: 2 or 3

Receivers fell down: 2 or 3

Receivers tipped balls: 2 or 3

 

Even a modest approximation puts about half of the INTs on someone else, or at least shares a good majority of the blame. And that's not even giving Turner any blame for constantly setting up Cutler and the offense for failure with his boneheaded calls.

 

[bowlingtwig]

I personally have not made a big deal about the overall number of pics, and thus I am not making a big deal either about who is to blame on each and every pic. The reality is though, you can do this with every QB in the league. Do you honestly believe all pics were 100% Rex' fault?

 

Even Cutler bashers likely can't say all the pics are his fault.

 

W/ that said....

 

Many of the pics are his fault, and many others throws were bad throws/decisions which could have been picked off. So while the number is higher than it "should be," at the same time, that number may be lower than what it "could be."

 

Also Jason, while you and I agree 100% on OL, I am swinging back to the belief that WR is a legit need. WR is still not close to the level of need as OL. If we do not fix this OL, it really doesn't matter if we have Boldin, Brandon Marshall, or whoever is the flavor of the day.

 

At the same time, I have also come to believe that, if the OL were fixed, this group of WRs would not be enough. Enough for our offense to be good. Sure. Enough for our offense to be what it should be w/ a QB of Cutler's caliber? No.

 

Blame Turner. You have done that for years. Blame Drake. I have blamed him for years. But at the end of the day, some level of responsibility has to fall at the feet of the players, and even if the coaching/teaching is not the best, at some point you have to also question of coachable/teachable the student is. Hester was always considered lacking in the intelligence department. Olsen wasn't considered much smarter. What the hell is it about these Miami players?

 

While I am happy to go off on the coaching, simply running the correct route really does have to put the player into question. I give a "slight" pass if it was Knox, as he is a rookie, but no other, not even Bennett, should make such a mistake. I tend to believe it was either Olsen or Hester, as the play discussed above refers to the #1 option, and that is not likely to be Knox.

 

Anyway, I just think we lack a weapon defenses have to worry about. We can talk all day about speed, but Hester just doesn't seem able to learn and do the small things that make such a difference. We have a bunch of nice #2s or #3s, but I don't think we have a #1. Now, you can definitely get by and even play well w/o a legit #1, but if we want to see Cutler lead our offense to that level we hoped for, I think we need to get him a playmaking receiver. Again, OL is the priority. But more than before, I just believe WR is a need.

NFO, we have been agreeing for awhile now, which is just beyond scary considering how things were when I first joined the board so many moons ago. I believe OLine is the #1,2,3 needs. Then we MUST fix this defense. I know the media and most so called fans that don't pay attention to game will just look at the fact that Cutler threw 2 more picks. How about the fact the defense allowed 537 yards? Allowed Favre to throw for 392 yards, just 10 yards short of a career high. QB's in the 40's shouldn't be having career days especially against a team that has always prided itself on defense. How about the fact that Favre had more passing attempts than we had offensive plays. We only had 38 offensive plays. Part of that is on the offense but the D couldn't get of the field at all. The Cover 2 or whatever it has been this year is being referred to as the Cover 0, because it simply lets mediocre offenses look good. If we want to win more games we need OLINE and D help. At this point I would listen to all trades except those involving Cutler. He is the ONLY one that is not tradeable. Even Forte, see what we can get for him. Blow this thing up and lets start with the coaching staff.

 

Sorry but that is my rant of the day.

 

[madlithuanian]

 

I'm asusming you mean "PI's"

 

Blatant Defensive INTs not called: 2 or 3

 

[madlithuanian]

I see you're now in agreement with me regardng WR!

 

OL is still the supreme need, but WR is a serious need...

 

I personally have not made a big deal about the overall number of pics, and thus I am not making a big deal either about who is to blame on each and every pic. The reality is though, you can do this with every QB in the league. Do you honestly believe all pics were 100% Rex' fault?

 

Even Cutler bashers likely can't say all the pics are his fault.

 

W/ that said....

 

Many of the pics are his fault, and many others throws were bad throws/decisions which could have been picked off. So while the number is higher than it "should be," at the same time, that number may be lower than what it "could be."

 

Also Jason, while you and I agree 100% on OL, I am swinging back to the belief that WR is a legit need. WR is still not close to the level of need as OL. If we do not fix this OL, it really doesn't matter if we have Boldin, Brandon Marshall, or whoever is the flavor of the day.

 

At the same time, I have also come to believe that, if the OL were fixed, this group of WRs would not be enough. Enough for our offense to be good. Sure. Enough for our offense to be what it should be w/ a QB of Cutler's caliber? No.

 

Blame Turner. You have done that for years. Blame Drake. I have blamed him for years. But at the end of the day, some level of responsibility has to fall at the feet of the players, and even if the coaching/teaching is not the best, at some point you have to also question of coachable/teachable the student is. Hester was always considered lacking in the intelligence department. Olsen wasn't considered much smarter. What the hell is it about these Miami players?

 

While I am happy to go off on the coaching, simply running the correct route really does have to put the player into question. I give a "slight" pass if it was Knox, as he is a rookie, but no other, not even Bennett, should make such a mistake. I tend to believe it was either Olsen or Hester, as the play discussed above refers to the #1 option, and that is not likely to be Knox.

 

Anyway, I just think we lack a weapon defenses have to worry about. We can talk all day about speed, but Hester just doesn't seem able to learn and do the small things that make such a difference. We have a bunch of nice #2s or #3s, but I don't think we have a #1. Now, you can definitely get by and even play well w/o a legit #1, but if we want to see Cutler lead our offense to that level we hoped for, I think we need to get him a playmaking receiver. Again, OL is the priority. But more than before, I just believe WR is a need.

 

[madlithuanian]

D is a huge problem. Although I wonder what a better DC would bring to the plate? We still have a p*ss poor secondary and super suspect DL, but I wonder if a change of scheme and a more adaptive DC could make an immediate impact.

 

Bottom line, this team needs to go FA shopping like it's never done before...

 

I also think Briggs Tillman and Gould are untradable at this point...

 

NFO, we have been agreeing for awhile now, which is just beyond scary considering how things were when I first joined the board so many moons ago. I believe OLine is the #1,2,3 needs. Then we MUST fix this defense. I know the media and most so called fans that don't pay attention to game will just look at the fact that Cutler threw 2 more picks. How about the fact the defense allowed 537 yards? Allowed Favre to throw for 392 yards, just 10 yards short of a career high. QB's in the 40's shouldn't be having career days especially against a team that has always prided itself on defense. How about the fact that Favre had more passing attempts than we had offensive plays. We only had 38 offensive plays. Part of that is on the offense but the D couldn't get of the field at all. The Cover 2 or whatever it has been this year is being referred to as the Cover 0, because it simply lets mediocre offenses look good. If we want to win more games we need OLINE and D help. At this point I would listen to all trades except those involving Cutler. He is the ONLY one that is not tradeable. Even Forte, see what we can get for him. Blow this thing up and lets start with the coaching staff.

 

Sorry but that is my rant of the day.

 

[nfoligno]

Yes. Cutler is the player to build around. Most every other piece is tradable. The only player that likely comes close might be Briggs. While I would not actively look to trade him, if another team made a great offer, I sure would listen.

 

On offense, we have a lot of work to do, but there should simply be little question it all starts w/ the OL. I have seen many bad OLs, but I honestly can not recall ever seeing an OL as bad as this. I know Payton ran behind some dreadful OLs, but that was before I was really into the game. By the time I was more into it, the OL was starting to look good, and then got great. Throughout the 90s and 2000's, there have been some really bad OLs, but for me, none as bad as this, and few even close. What is sad is, last year I think many would have said, "it can't get worse," but it sure did.

 

Short term.

 

I move Williams to LT. That is what we drafted him to be, and I would like to give him an opportunity on that side before I just write him off. Kreutz, as bad as he has been, I likely give one more year as we can only do so much (w/o draft picks) at once. LG is a key for me, and I would fill that with a very good veteran. That would not only shore up our LG spot, but as I have argued in the past, would benefit Williams development at LT as well. Garza is likely safe for another year, though I would be looking to add an OG to develop behind him. RT needs a big boy. Omiyale might be allowed in the mix, but would not be a planned starter. This may be my first draft pick. Bring in a 3rd round pick, and then have a wide open competition between the rookie and Omiyale, w/ Shaffer considered a backup backup plan.

 

So in 2010, Williams - Upper tier veteran FA - Kreutz - Garza - Rookie

 

After this, I would decide whether Beekman can replace Kreutz and look to also replace Garza. If all goes well, we are improved in 2010, and far better in 2010. As bad as our OL is, it is not going to be fixed in one year. We need to make a big start in the offseason, but continue that through the following.

 

On defense, man do we have a long way to go. I think the first thing is scrapping the system. After that, it is going to take some time to turnover the players. Along the DL, we have little to build off. Wale and Anderson are likely gone after this year. Harris has simply lost too much, and while Brown can play, how much longer can we expect that? The hope is young players like Gaines Adams, Gilbert, Harrison and even Melton may develop, but I have yet to see ANYTHING to lead give much hope.

 

At LB, we have Briggs. We should get back Urlacher, and w/ a system change, I think he might play at a high level for a few more years. Pisa, Roach, Williams and Hunter fill the final spot and provide depth. IMHO, this unit could be fine w/ better coaching/scheme, and has enough youth to help when players go down. While I am not saying we are set for life at LB, our needs at DL and DB are too great to focus on LB.

 

CB - It would be interesting to see how they play outside of this system. Bowman has not impressed me, but I also feel he is in the wrong system. Graham has been a good enough player IMHO, but the staff just doesn't care for him. Tillman is okay. No clue if we can ever expect anything from Moore. We could definitely use a CB, but this position would be behind DT, DE and S for me.

 

S - Afalava may be long term at SS, but we need a major upgrade at FS. I think we need to go FA for this. Adding a player like Dawkins (as Denver did) or Sharper (as NO did) could really help short term, and buy us time to (a) find and ( develop a long term FS solution.

 

What is sad is, we have so many holes to fill, and you can only expect to add so much in any one offseason. I would look at add an upper tier FA OG, and draft another OL w/ our 1st pick (3rd round), likely an OT. I would draft and sign a DL, as well as sign a FS.

 

This will not be close to enough, but if we at least fix the OL, I think our offense could play well next year and help carry the D until we can fix that side.

 

NFO, we have been agreeing for awhile now, which is just beyond scary considering how things were when I first joined the board so many moons ago. I believe OLine is the #1,2,3 needs. Then we MUST fix this defense. I know the media and most so called fans that don't pay attention to game will just look at the fact that Cutler threw 2 more picks. How about the fact the defense allowed 537 yards? Allowed Favre to throw for 392 yards, just 10 yards short of a career high. QB's in the 40's shouldn't be having career days especially against a team that has always prided itself on defense. How about the fact that Favre had more passing attempts than we had offensive plays. We only had 38 offensive plays. Part of that is on the offense but the D couldn't get of the field at all. The Cover 2 or whatever it has been this year is being referred to as the Cover 0, because it simply lets mediocre offenses look good. If we want to win more games we need OLINE and D help. At this point I would listen to all trades except those involving Cutler. He is the ONLY one that is not tradeable. Even Forte, see what we can get for him. Blow this thing up and lets start with the coaching staff.

 

Sorry but that is my rant of the day.

 

[jason]

I personally have not made a big deal about the overall number of pics, and thus I am not making a big deal either about who is to blame on each and every pic. The reality is though, you can do this with every QB in the league. Do you honestly believe all pics were 100% Rex' fault?

 

Even Cutler bashers likely can't say all the pics are his fault.

 

W/ that said....

 

Many of the pics are his fault, and many others throws were bad throws/decisions which could have been picked off. So while the number is higher than it "should be," at the same time, that number may be lower than what it "could be."

 

Also Jason, while you and I agree 100% on OL, I am swinging back to the belief that WR is a legit need. WR is still not close to the level of need as OL. If we do not fix this OL, it really doesn't matter if we have Boldin, Brandon Marshall, or whoever is the flavor of the day.

 

At the same time, I have also come to believe that, if the OL were fixed, this group of WRs would not be enough. Enough for our offense to be good. Sure. Enough for our offense to be what it should be w/ a QB of Cutler's caliber? No.

 

Blame Turner. You have done that for years. Blame Drake. I have blamed him for years. But at the end of the day, some level of responsibility has to fall at the feet of the players, and even if the coaching/teaching is not the best, at some point you have to also question of coachable/teachable the student is. Hester was always considered lacking in the intelligence department. Olsen wasn't considered much smarter. What the hell is it about these Miami players?

 

While I am happy to go off on the coaching, simply running the correct route really does have to put the player into question. I give a "slight" pass if it was Knox, as he is a rookie, but no other, not even Bennett, should make such a mistake. I tend to believe it was either Olsen or Hester, as the play discussed above refers to the #1 option, and that is not likely to be Knox.

 

Anyway, I just think we lack a weapon defenses have to worry about. We can talk all day about speed, but Hester just doesn't seem able to learn and do the small things that make such a difference. We have a bunch of nice #2s or #3s, but I don't think we have a #1. Now, you can definitely get by and even play well w/o a legit #1, but if we want to see Cutler lead our offense to that level we hoped for, I think we need to get him a playmaking receiver. Again, OL is the priority. But more than before, I just believe WR is a need.

 

I pretty much agree. But, as you know, I don't think RBs, WRs, and QBs can be properly evaluated if the OL stinks. There simply isn't time to develop the talent, or to utilize a full collection of plays. Do the Bears need better WRs? It's possible, but I can't say that anyone can really affirm this based upon play, because the OL has been so atrocious that it has limited the Bears' offense in countless ways.

[jason]

I'm asusming you mean "PI's"

 

Yes, I did. It's been corrected. thanks.

[madlithuanian]

I think we can safely say the WR's are not that good. They don't run routes correctly, they don't try hard for the ball or play defense when the ball is up for grabs, they don't come back and help the QB out...

 

 

I pretty much agree. But, as you know, I don't think RBs, WRs, and QBs can be properly evaluated if the OL stinks. There simply isn't time to develop the talent, or to utilize a full collection of plays. Do the Bears need better WRs? It's possible, but I can't say that anyone can really affirm this based upon play, because the OL has been so atrocious that it has limited the Bears' offense in countless ways.

 

[nfoligno]

D is a huge problem. Although I wonder what a better DC would bring to the plate? We still have a p*ss poor secondary and super suspect DL, but I wonder if a change of scheme and a more adaptive DC could make an immediate impact.

 

Totally agree that a change in coaching and scheme could really help this defense. At the same time, I don't think Buddy Ryan could make this group a great defense again. Though so much of that SB D is still in place, the talent is simply not what it was.

 

DL - Only Tank is gone, and while he made a difference, his absence alone is not the whole story. Wale is just not consistent, and getting older. Harris is a shell of what he was, and he was a player that really made the whole DL.

 

LB - W/ Urlacher back in the mix, this unit comes as close as any to being as good as it was during the SB run.

 

CB - Tillman is not what he was. He is often injuried, and frankly, just does not appear to be as good of a player as he was then. Vasher sucks, but was good during that run. Bowman is not nearly as good today as Vasher was then.

 

S - He is the biggest difference, IMHO. No Mike Brown. He was simply that much of a difference maker. Not just in his play, but in his leadership, which has never been replaced.

 

We can bring in a new DC and a new scheme. Even still, this D based on talent has tons of holes. A change in coach and scheme may better hide/cover those holes, but I don't see us being a "good" defense w/ the personnel we have. Better coach and scheme might keep from this group sucking so bad, but would I don't think even good coaching makes this a good D. For that, we need changes at coach, scheme and player personnel.

 

Bottom line, this team needs to go FA shopping like it's never done before...

 

I also think Briggs Tillman and Gould are untradable at this point...

 

[nfoligno]

While you may not be able to conclude, there are still so many little things you can look at so as to evaluate.

 

RB - OL is a huge problem, but at the same time, I also just do not believe Forte has been the same runner he was last year, and not always can the OL be blames. He just looks slower and doesn't seem to have the burst. It isn't like he had huge gaps to run through last year, but he was very quick to get to the LOS. This year, even when there is a hole, it is closed by the time he gets there. Part of that is on Forte. Also, his blocking has been pretty bad this year. I also think his vision has not seemed to be what it was. There have been times when AP, Wolfe and that kid off the PS entered the game and made a play, which just seemed to add to the questions levied on Forte.

 

WR - While the OL is at play here, I think you can better evaluate the WRs, even w/ a poor OL.

 

- Does a WR get clean releases off the LOS. This really has little to do w/ the OL. Often when I am able to focus on the WRs, they seem to struggle to beat the press.

 

- Route running - Man, not only are the WRs often running sloppy routes, but they are not always even running the right ones. Also to note is how often a WR makes their break after (example) 5 yards on 3rd and 7. Some want to blame Turner, but that is wrong. On 3rd and 7, the WR is supposed to know where the 1st down marker is, and get to that point. Far too often I have seen our receivers catch the ball a yard or two shy of the 3rd down marker. That is not on Turner, Cutler or the OL. That is the WR not knowing where the 1st down marker is and cutting their route too early. Ball tracking is another area I have questioned our guys. Several times I have seen Cutler air it out, only to see Hester (example) seem to slow his route and then try to speed up, only to see the ball land a yard or two in front of him. When Cutler throws the ball, he is leading the WR. If the WR changes speeds, the pass is not going to be on target, but for some reason, our WRs too often seen to change up their speed when the ball is in the air, and I think this has to do w/ tracking the ball. Sort of like in Baseball when you see a centerfielder initially step up, only to realize the ball is deeper. He tries to run to the wall, but is late and the ball goes over his head.

 

Fighting for the ball is not an area I have been impressed by our guys either. Nor toughness, as DBs seem to bully our WRs, and even TEs, far too often.

 

Look, I said we can not make any conclusions, but I do believe you can make evaluations. Hester simply does not seem to me to have the potential to ever be a consistent WR threat. He can make plays, but simply lacks the all-around game to be an effective #1, and I don't mean a Steve Smith stud #1, but a WR who is the QBs first read, and capable of "usually" getting open and catching the ball. Bennett looks like a nice #2, possession WR. More than most, I think better coaching could really help his game and consistency. Knox? Wild card. He has loads of talent, but frankly, makes a lot of boneheaded plays, likely due to being a rookie. Still, I just don't know if he is a #1 either. Iglesias has really disappointed me, but even w/o, he would be similar to Bennett.

 

We have upgraded at QB. If we upgrade at OL, these WRs may well be good enough to get it done. IMHO though, if we really want to see the full potential of this WR group, we also need to add a legit #1. That, like the other aspects, would elevate the game of the unit as a whole.

 

I pretty much agree. But, as you know, I don't think RBs, WRs, and QBs can be properly evaluated if the OL stinks. There simply isn't time to develop the talent, or to utilize a full collection of plays. Do the Bears need better WRs? It's possible, but I can't say that anyone can really affirm this based upon play, because the OL has been so atrocious that it has limited the Bears' offense in countless ways.

 

[jason]

While you may not be able to conclude, there are still so many little things you can look at so as to evaluate.

 

RB - OL is a huge problem, but at the same time, I also just do not believe Forte has been the same runner he was last year, and not always can the OL be blames. He just looks slower and doesn't seem to have the burst. It isn't like he had huge gaps to run through last year, but he was very quick to get to the LOS. This year, even when there is a hole, it is closed by the time he gets there. Part of that is on Forte. Also, his blocking has been pretty bad this year. I also think his vision has not seemed to be what it was. There have been times when AP, Wolfe and that kid off the PS entered the game and made a play, which just seemed to add to the questions levied on Forte.

 

WR - While the OL is at play here, I think you can better evaluate the WRs, even w/ a poor OL.

 

- Does a WR get clean releases off the LOS. This really has little to do w/ the OL. Often when I am able to focus on the WRs, they seem to struggle to beat the press.

 

- Route running - Man, not only are the WRs often running sloppy routes, but they are not always even running the right ones. Also to note is how often a WR makes their break after (example) 5 yards on 3rd and 7. Some want to blame Turner, but that is wrong. On 3rd and 7, the WR is supposed to know where the 1st down marker is, and get to that point. Far too often I have seen our receivers catch the ball a yard or two shy of the 3rd down marker. That is not on Turner, Cutler or the OL. That is the WR not knowing where the 1st down marker is and cutting their route too early. Ball tracking is another area I have questioned our guys. Several times I have seen Cutler air it out, only to see Hester (example) seem to slow his route and then try to speed up, only to see the ball land a yard or two in front of him. When Cutler throws the ball, he is leading the WR. If the WR changes speeds, the pass is not going to be on target, but for some reason, our WRs too often seen to change up their speed when the ball is in the air, and I think this has to do w/ tracking the ball. Sort of like in Baseball when you see a centerfielder initially step up, only to realize the ball is deeper. He tries to run to the wall, but is late and the ball goes over his head.

 

Fighting for the ball is not an area I have been impressed by our guys either. Nor toughness, as DBs seem to bully our WRs, and even TEs, far too often.

 

Look, I said we can not make any conclusions, but I do believe you can make evaluations. Hester simply does not seem to me to have the potential to ever be a consistent WR threat. He can make plays, but simply lacks the all-around game to be an effective #1, and I don't mean a Steve Smith stud #1, but a WR who is the QBs first read, and capable of "usually" getting open and catching the ball. Bennett looks like a nice #2, possession WR. More than most, I think better coaching could really help his game and consistency. Knox? Wild card. He has loads of talent, but frankly, makes a lot of boneheaded plays, likely due to being a rookie. Still, I just don't know if he is a #1 either. Iglesias has really disappointed me, but even w/o, he would be similar to Bennett.

 

We have upgraded at QB. If we upgrade at OL, these WRs may well be good enough to get it done. IMHO though, if we really want to see the full potential of this WR group, we also need to add a legit #1. That, like the other aspects, would elevate the game of the unit as a whole.

 

RB - You think Forte changed that much in ONE year?

WR - Some evaluation can be done, but it can't be complete. The one I disagree with the most is your thoughts on the short route on 3/7. This has happened with ALL WRs under Turner, not just these guys.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I would not be surprised if this happens a lot more than anyone knows. The whole team is poorly coached. There is no execution, no crispness, no discipline. It almost seems like they are just going thru the motions now. Like they know the season is over, so why bother giving 100%.

 

Its why I go ballistic on all the num-nuts blaming everything on Jay. Sure Jay could have played better, but at the end of the day he's had very little chance of suceeding given what he has around him.

 

Its freakin pathetic and the staff better be gone.

[nfoligno]

RB - You think Forte changed that much in ONE year?

 

I don't know, but I will say this. He would not be the first player to look very good as a rookie, only to look very different in their 2nd year. In fact, it happens often enough that there is a term for it (sophmore slump). Heck, he isn't even the only RB from last years rookie class to see such a dip. Steve Slaton, who also tore it up last year, has stunk this year. Forte is also not the only Bears RB to see a similar change, as A-Train won rookie of the year honors, followed by a much lesser career.

 

I am not saying we should write off Forte, or that he will go the A-Train route. I am saying though that I do not believe he has been as good this year, OL woes or no. Personally, I am still expecting to year after the season is over the he was dealing w/ a nagging injury throughout the year. Even on plays where he has broken into the open, he just does not seem to have the same burst he had last year, and no way you can blame that on the OL.

 

WR - Some evaluation can be done, but it can't be complete. The one I disagree with the most is your thoughts on the short route on 3/7. This has happened with ALL WRs under Turner, not just these guys.

 

First, as I said, no, the evaluation is not going to be complete. I just do not believe you ignore what you see and write it all off as the problems of the OL.

 

As for the later part, while it is true this has been a problem w/ most WRs under Turner/Drake, I would also point out we have rarely really gone after those stud WRs. We have more gone after more raw and developmental prospects who we can get later in the draft (though we often enough take them earlier) or cheap FAs.

 

Regardless though, I just wonder how much of this can do w/ coaching. Running to the 1st down marker on 3rd and 7 should be as obvious to a WR as catching passes thrown to him. You should not need great coaching to teach a WR that on 3rd and 7, you don't run a 6 yard route.

 

I fully blame Turner when we run a 1 yard WR screen on 3rd and 7, but when its 3rd and 7, and the WR breaks into his route after 5 or 6 yards, I put that on the WR. I blame Turner for not smacking the WR in the head afterward, but seriously, that just isn't something you should have to teach a WR.

[Mongo3451]

This quickly became an off-season "how to fix the team" post. Today, I am reluctantly ready to bite. Here's I fix it in order of importance.

 

Right now:

 

It's baptism by fire for Williams. As a matter of fact, I would encourage Williams and Beekman to spend a lot of time getting to know each other in an anticapatory way.

 

Move Hester back to PR/KR/slot. He won games for us in this role. He has done nothing to win for us as WR. While moving Hester out, move the other Devin in the #1 spot. He's the biggest most physical reciever we have, plus he's a fav of Cutler. (can't hurt)

 

STOP trying to establish the run game. That is almost blasphemy from me to suggest, but... Sorry, our OL is so bad, let us try to establish a run type offense through short passing and the occassional shot downfield. I'm not sure if I've seen play action work all year.

 

I have no defensive suggestions for this year.

 

Offseason:

 

Fire Lovie and staff during the week 17 post game interview and not allow him another "trust me" moment. Announce the hiring of Cowher and give him the podium. I'm done with this staff. I'd only keep the ST coach and the ball boy that runs fast. That's only if Lord Cowher sees fit.

 

Cut Pace, sign the best left OG out there, sign best big reciever out there, cut/trade Harris, cut/trade Vasher, cut AP, cut Shaffer or Omiyale(you pick), let Anderson walk, sign Wale to a modest extension, make the effort to move Tillman to FS(no-I will never get off that bandwagon), sign a back up RB, cut Wolfe, sign a DT, sign a CB. If all this could be done by the first week of free agency, I'll be fine. BTW - keep Url and Olsen. Url is still a top 2 player on a very weak defense. We don't get equal value for trading him. Olsen is the only reliable target Cutler has, is smarter than Nfo thinks and is also Cutlers buddy. (keep the franchise happy) Hope I didn't forget to get rid of any dead weight.

 

Draft a road grader OT and OG. They are now your starting right side if Omiyale / Shaffer suck for the next 5 games. Beekman is now the backup center and Garza the flex guard. Now draft the best RB and FB you can find.(Cut McKie - finally) Whatever is left take on defense.

 

Gear up for next year.

[fudgeripple2000]

Offseason:

 

Fire Lovie and staff during the week 17 post game interview and not allow him another "trust me" moment. Announce the hiring of Cowher and give him the podium. I'm done with this staff. I'd only keep the ST coach and the ball boy that runs fast. That's only if Lord Cowher sees fit.

 

Cut Pace, sign the best left OG out there, sign best big reciever out there, cut/trade Harris, cut/trade Vasher, cut AP, cut Shaffer or Omiyale(you pick), let Anderson walk, sign Wale to a modest extension, make the effort to move Tillman to FS(no-I will never get off that bandwagon), sign a back up RB, cut Wolfe, sign a DT, sign a CB. If all this could be done by the first week of free agency, I'll be fine. BTW - keep Url and Olsen. Url is still a top 2 player on a very weak defense. We don't get equal value for trading him. Olsen is the only reliable target Cutler has, is smarter than Nfo thinks and is also Cutlers buddy. (keep the franchise happy) Hope I didn't forget to get rid of any dead weight.

 

Draft a road grader OT and OG. They are now your starting right side if Omiyale / Shaffer suck for the next 5 games. Beekman is now the backup center and Garza the flex guard. Now draft the best RB and FB you can find.(Cut McKie - finally) Whatever is left take on defense.

 

Gear up for next year.

 

Completely agree. However if we bring in Cowher we will more than likely be converting to a 3-4. With that in mind we would need a "plug" at nose tackle. The tackles that we have aren't right for that system. O-line has to be a priority.

 

[nfoligno]

Right now:

 

It's baptism by fire for Williams. As a matter of fact, I would encourage Williams and Beekman to spend a lot of time getting to know each other in an anticapatory way.

 

No question on Williams. What is mind boggling is, when we should be playing Beekman at OG, we actually moved Omiyale back into the starting lineup for the "most important game of the year." Talk about messed up. Otherwise, yes, he should be back at OG. W/ that said, one thing I would be curious about would be playing Beekman at Center for the rest of the year. Absolutely no chance we would do that, but I would sure love to see Beekman play center for the rest of the year to get an idea if he can replace Kreutz or not.

 

Move Hester back to PR/KR/slot. He won games for us in this role. He has done nothing to win for us as WR.

 

Disagree w/ this one. One, you have to face a tad bit of reality. Hester signed a new deal, much of which is based on WR tied incentives. He is not going to willingly give up those incentives, and frankly, I doubt he gives up the WR role either way. Not only that, but I argued all along that his value as a return man was short term. History shows that. Teams eventually adjust and adapt.

 

While moving Hester out, move the other Devin in the #1 spot.

 

I have no issue w/ giving him more playing time, but #1? How about he prove himself a bit more before we elevate him that far. While we are on the subject of WRs, how about activate Iglesias and de-activate Davis.

 

STOP trying to establish the run game. That is almost blasphemy from me to suggest, but... Sorry, our OL is so bad, let us try to establish a run type offense through short passing and the occassional shot downfield. I'm not sure if I've seen play action work all year.

 

Honestly, I am not sure how much we have really been trying to establish the run of late.

 

I have no defensive suggestions for this year.

 

I do. Make the CBs start pressing our WRs at the LOS more. If they get beat, so what. they are anyway. See if they can play more physical and prevent the dinks and dumks all day long. Start playing Gaines Adams and Gilbert more. Gave up a 2nd for Adams and a 3rd for Gilbert. Also, try to get Jamar Williams and DJ Moore playing time. All young players who have any potential future need to get playing time and increased looks. I am not saying we bench Briggs to start Williams. Pick your spots. Move him around between LB positions, but get him on the field more often.

 

Offseason:

 

Fire Lovie and staff during the week 17 post game interview and not allow him another "trust me" moment. Announce the hiring of Cowher and give him the podium. I'm done with this staff. I'd only keep the ST coach and the ball boy that runs fast. That's only if Lord Cowher sees fit.

 

I don't care how it is done, so long as it is done.

 

Cut Pace, sign the best left OG out there,

 

Hell yes. Solid veteran OG will not only upgrade that position, but give Williams a big leg up in terms of development at LT.

 

sign best big reciever out there,

 

While I have come around on our needing a WR, and as you said, preferably a bigger one, I only have an issue w/ the "best" comment. We have tons of holes, and simply are not going to have the money to spend big to fill all those holes. Wrs in particular can get expensive. Very expensive. As much as I think we need a bigger WR, I just don't think we need to "blow our wad" on a guy like Brandon Marshall, or an equally expensive guy.

 

cut/trade Harris,

 

I don't see much trade value, and frankly, don't see the point in cutting him. His play has actually improved of late. I sort of wonder if a coach like Cowher couldn't light a fire under him. If we have no one better, there is no point in eating the cap just to get rid of him. As bad as he is, he is likely still our best DT, which is a sad statement. But again, you can only do so much at once. Now I will say this. He may not be a starter anymore.

 

cut/trade Vasher, cut AP, cut Shaffer or Omiyale(you pick), let

 

Vasher has ZERO trade value, especially w/ his contract. Cut. AP as well. Time to get RB depth that actually provided depth at RB. I'll take Omiyale over Shaffer. At least w/ Omiyale, we can say he is young and could still develop/improve. Also, we need to look at him at OT. I don't recall Shaffer's contact. I have no problem cutting him, but would rather let him compete in camp. If he doesn't earn a spot on the 53 man roster, bye bye. If he does, he sticks.

 

Anderson walk, sign Wale to a modest extension,

 

Anderson walk, fine. But you think we are going to sign Wale to a modest extension? We are talking about DE, a position where average players get "paid". Wale has been actually having a pretty good year. While he will not warrant a mega deal by any means, he could well warrant a good bit more than a "modest extension".

 

make the effort to move Tillman to FS(no-I will never get off that bandwagon),

 

No thanks. Not so much because I don't think he can do it, but (a) I think we need an experienced FS, not yet another converted player throw into the FS spot and ( while I agree we could use another starting caliber WR, the other side is significantly worse than Tillman's side.

 

sign a back up RB, cut Wolfe,

 

I would sign a backup RB, but I don't really see the need to cut Wolfe. I like him as a #3, and further, he is one of our best special teams players.

 

sign a DT, sign a CB.

 

Um, are you Danny Snyder? Seriously. Just take a look at how many players you want to sign in FA. Not only that, but most of the positions you want to sign are considered premier positions. After eating a LOT of money firing all our coaches, and then signing a big name like Cowher, you think we are going to shell out another $100m in bonuses?

 

If all this could be done by the first week of free agency, I'll be fine. BTW - keep Url and Olsen. Url is still a top 2 player on a very weak defense. We don't get equal value for trading him. Olsen is the only reliable target Cutler has, is smarter than Nfo thinks and is also Cutlers buddy. (keep the franchise

 

I have zero problem keeping both, and while I do not think Olsen is too bright, that does not mean I want to dump him. I would like to find someone who can toughen him up a tad.

 

Hope I didn't forget to get rid of any dead weight.

 

How about Rashied Davis.

 

Draft a road grader OT and OG. They are now your starting right side if Omiyale / Shaffer suck for the next 5 games. Beekman is now the backup center and Garza the flex guard. Now draft the best RB and FB you can find.(Cut McKie - finally) Whatever is left take on defense.

 

Gear up for next year.

 

[Mongo3451]

Move Hester back to PR/KR/slot. He won games for us in this role. He has done nothing to win for us as WR.

 

Disagree w/ this one. One, you have to face a tad bit of reality. Hester signed a new deal, much of which is based on WR tied incentives. He is not going to willingly give up those incentives, and frankly, I doubt he gives up the WR role either way. Not only that, but I argued all along that his value as a return man was short term. History shows that. Teams eventually adjust and adapt.

 

My thing is, he’s put in all this time trying to be a #1 and has yet to develop any rapport with Cutler. I put that on Hester, as the QB has to be able to trust his wideout. That being said, I do think Hester can re-kindle some of the fire gone from the return game. This will also give Knox more PT at WR; a move I think suits both skillsets.

 

 

 

While moving Hester out, move the other Devin in the #1 spot.

I have no issue w/ giving him more playing time, but #1? How about he prove himself a bit more before we elevate him that far. While we are on the subject of WRs, how about activate Iglesias and de-activate Davis.

 

Not talking about annointing the guy, but I do think he had some chemistry with Cutler. It’s tryout time and I think Aromashodu has shown more than the other WR’s that have not played much.

 

 

 

I have no defensive suggestions for this year.

I do. Make the CBs start pressing our WRs at the LOS more. If they get beat, so what. they are anyway. See if they can play more physical and prevent the dinks and dumks all day long. Start playing Gaines Adams and Gilbert more. Gave up a 2nd for Adams and a 3rd for Gilbert. Also, try to get Jamar Williams and DJ Moore playing time. All young players who have any potential future need to get playing time and increased looks. I am not saying we bench Briggs to start Williams. Pick your spots. Move him around between LB positions, but get him on the field more often.

 

I’ll take that.

 

 

 

Offseason:

 

sign best big reciever out there,

While I have come around on our needing a WR, and as you said, preferably a bigger one, I only have an issue w/ the "best" comment. We have tons of holes, and simply are not going to have the money to spend big to fill all those holes. Wrs in particular can get expensive. Very expensive. As much as I think we need a bigger WR, I just don't think we need to "blow our wad" on a guy like Brandon Marshall, or an equally expensive guy.

 

I guess we’ll have to see what the wad is.

 

 

 

cut/trade Harris,

I don't see much trade value, and frankly, don't see the point in cutting him. His play has actually improved of late. I sort of wonder if a coach like Cowher couldn't light a fire under him. If we have no one better, there is no point in eating the cap just to get rid of him. As bad as he is, he is likely still our best DT, which is a sad statement. But again, you can only do so much at once. Now I will say this. He may not be a starter anymore.

 

I think he’s becoming one of those cancer types. He’s the engine, but if my man Cowher comes in the DT’s are getting bigger.

 

 

 

cut/trade Vasher, cut AP, cut Shaffer or Omiyale(you pick), let

 

Vasher has ZERO trade value, especially w/ his contract. Cut. AP as well. Time to get RB depth that actually provided depth at RB. I'll take Omiyale over Shaffer. At least w/ Omiyale, we can say he is young and could still develop/improve. Also, we need to look at him at OT. I don't recall Shaffer's contact. I have no problem cutting him, but would rather let him compete in camp. If he doesn't earn a spot on the 53 man roster, bye bye. If he does, he sticks.

 

I cut AP somewhere I think. If not, thanks for reminding me.

 

 

 

Anderson walk, sign Wale to a modest extension,

Anderson walk, fine. But you think we are going to sign Wale to a modest extension? We are talking about DE, a position where average players get "paid". Wale has been actually having a pretty good year. While he will not warrant a mega deal by any means, he could well warrant a good bit more than a "modest extension".

 

Never know, maybe we get lucky.

 

 

 

sign a back up RB, cut Wolfe,

I would sign a backup RB, but I don't really see the need to cut Wolfe. I like him as a #3, and further, he is one of our best special teams players.

 

As much as I’ve rooted for Wolfe, he’s shown me nothing to keep him. I guess he can play out his rookie deal since he can play teams.

 

 

 

sign a DT, sign a CB.

Um, are you Danny Snyder? Seriously. Just take a look at how many players you want to sign in FA. Not only that, but most of the positions you want to sign are considered premier positions. After eating a LOT of money firing all our coaches, and then signing a big name like Cowher, you think we are going to shell out another $100m in bonuses?

 

Hell yes, it’s not my money!!!

 

 

 

Hope I didn't forget to get rid of any dead weight.

How about Rashied Davis.

 

Yep, him too.

 

[nfoligno]

My thing is, he’s put in all this time trying to be a #1 and has yet to develop any rapport with Cutler. I put that on Hester, as the QB has to be able to trust his wideout. That being said, I do think Hester can re-kindle some of the fire gone from the return game. This will also give Knox more PT at WR; a move I think suits both skillsets.

 

I guess part of my thing is that I still believe he can be a good WR. No, he is not, and will never be, a #1 WR, but that doesn't mean he can't be very effective as a WR. Frankly, I think his best position is out of the slot. Reasons I don't want to simply move him back to a returner role.

 

(a) In terms of KO, DM and even Knox have been quite excellent, and frankly, DM last year was awesome. I am not sure Hester is truly an upgrade to DM, and even if he is, is he enough of one that you just quit on him as a WR?

 

( Punt returner is just too small of a role for him. He needs to be more than that. I do wonder if we made him a slot receiver, rather than our #1 starter, if that would not improve his chances as a punt returner.

 

© I think returners have a very small window to be great, at least on the level Hester was. While he broke the mold in many ways, I just never felt it would be long term.

 

(d) I think he can be effective, and even dangerous as a WR. I believe (a) coaching has done little to develop him in this area and ( he is essentially out of position as the staff has tried to force him to be more than he is. If he were a slot WR, or even a #2 opposite a more proven #1, I think he could be a damn good WR. He is simply not a #1. But many WRs can be great w/o being a #1.

 

(e) Contract. This is simply reality. He signed a deal loaded w/ incentives tied to his play as a WR, which is also the position he wants to play. We move him where we want, but if he is not on board w/ the move, we are not going to see the effort. WR is what he believes is his position, and where he knows his money is tied too. He is not going to be happy w/ a move back to a returner specific role, and if he is not happy, you can bet he is not going to produce as he once did.

 

Not talking about annointing the guy, but I do think he had some chemistry with Cutler. It’s tryout time and I think Aromashodu has shown more than the other WR’s that have not played much.

 

I have zero issue w/, and have called for it myself, getting DA more PT. At the same time, I simply question jumping him all the way to a #1 role. I thin we can get DA a ton more PT w/o making him the #1. If DA producing, his PT goes up further, but I just think players need to earn their way.

 

I guess we’ll have to see what the wad is.

 

Sure, but be realistic. Even if we do hit the offseason w/ money to burn, there is simply no way we are going to sign upper tier FAs at: OL, WR, DL and CB. I am not even sure Danny Boy has a wad that large. More realistic is hoping we sign 2 upper tier FAs, and then a group of lesser guys. One has to be OL. I think most would agree with that. Could the other be a WR. Maybe. But that doesn't do much for the defense which has been awful.

 

As much as I agree we could use a WR, at the same time, I also would not mind seeing what better coaches could do to develop our current group of young WRs. Further, w/ improved OL play (based on big ticket FA and draft picks) we may yet find our WRs better than we realize. We have talent and youth at WR. We have a pair of 3rds invested in Bennett and Iglesias. We have Knox who has developed faster than expected, and could still have a ways to go before he hits his ceiling. We have DA, who many fans love, and who Cutler is begging to see more of. And yes, we still have Hester, who I do not believe is a #1, but could well be a solid WR if put in a better position, like as a slot guy. We have talent. Could we use more, or a more proven stud. Absolutely. But w/ so many holes, I think we have more youth and talent at the WR position than most other units, and may need to devote more money and resources to other areas and give this group a bit more time to develop.

 

I think he’s becoming one of those cancer types. He’s the engine, but if my man Cowher comes in the DT’s are getting bigger.

 

I just am not sure he is a total cancer. Key for me is that, in your plan (as w/ mine) we would be bringing in a new HC w/ a tougher mentality. I just wonder if a coach like Cowher couldn't get more out of Harris than a player friendly coach like Lovie. And while you say we would need a bigger DT if we signed Cowher, I would argue that if we did move to a 3-4, Harris would actually fit the mold of DE in that system pretty well.

 

If Harris' trade value were better, I could see trading him, but I think his trade value is very low. And I do not feel he has been bad enough to warrant "addition by subtraction" thinking. We have so many holes to fill that I feel getting rid of Harris would only great yet another.

 

Never know, maybe we get lucky.

 

This is regarding Wale. Sure, we could get lucky, but I wouldn't count on it. Key here, as talked about above, is also what our new scheme will be, and whether or not Wale would even be a good fit. I believe he is around 260lbs, which is not close to ideal if we moved to a 3-4.

 

As much as I’ve rooted for Wolfe, he’s shown me nothing to keep him. I guess he can play out his rookie deal since he can play teams.

 

As Jason has said many times, I question how Wolfe has been used. Most teams would view Wolfe as a sort of 3rd down or scat back. For some reason though, we more often than not run him up the middle, or play him as if he were a 220lb every down RB. If he were a FA, and we didn't want to re-sign him. Fine. But I just don't see the need to cut him, especially as he is one of our top special teams players, and if we cut the likes of AP, Davis and others, we may need to keep him for his STs play.

 

Hell yes, it’s not my money!!!

 

Funny, but I am not sure even Danny Snyder or Jerry Jones could afford your offseason play, as fun as it may be.

 

[jason]

I'd only keep the ST coach and the ball boy that runs fast. That's only if Lord Cowher sees fit.

 

That cracked me up. That ball boy got all sorts of press for sprinting down the sideline on the return.