Anyone have info on why Gaines Adams was not active for Sunday

[Chitownhustla]

it sounded as if they were punishing him for something. I hope this guy is not a asswad douche!

[flea]

because he's crap & a waste of a 2nd rounder?? Just hazarding a guess

[Connorbear]

because he's crap & a waste of a 2nd rounder?? Just hazarding a guess

Joniak interviewed Lovie the next day and, paraphrasing, he said they looked to the Rams to run more so they activated Gilbert over him. You know, so Gilbert can play a whole 3 plays!!!!! Also, Lovie noted they were very deep on d-line and it makes the choices difficult.

 

Peace

[defiantgiant]

Joniak interviewed Lovie the next day and, paraphrasing, he said they looked to the Rams to run more so they activated Gilbert over him. You know, so Gilbert can play a whole 3 plays!!!!! Also, Lovie noted they were very deep on d-line and it makes the choices difficult.

Well, we are really deep at DE, and Lovie definitely tailored the defense to stop the run: makes sense, when the Rams have a top-5 tailback and Kyle Boller throwing it. I mean, they had Afalava at FS and Payne at SS - if that's not a one-dimensional secondary, I don't know what is.

 

That said, I think Adams is more of a long-term project that people are letting on. Right now, he's basically got a killer first step and nothing else - very few pass-rushing moves, very little lower-body strength to bull rush. He's more Mark Anderson than Mark Anderson: all straight-line speed. One thing, though: I remember reading that past offseason was the first time Adams ever did squats. Think about that for a minute. If the coaching staff thinks that Adams can pack on another 15-20 pounds of bulk with a real training program, he could have a lot of potential, but we probably won't see it until next season. He needs to add a bunch of weight and spend every waking hour with Marinelli learning his swim move, rip move, hump move, etc. Then we'll see if he was worth the 2nd-rounder.

 

Also, this occurred to me the other day: if Adams can add 20 pounds and Gilbert ends up at LE, our starting DEs will be MUCH bigger (6'5" 280-285 pounds) than the usual Tampa-2 undersized guys. If we rotate Harris and Harrison at under tackle, we'd basically be a big nose tackle away from having a normal 4-3 front - that could make the transition a lot easier if we eventually ditch the scheme entirely.

[nfoligno]

That said, I think Adams is more of a long-term project that people are letting on. Right now, he's basically got a killer first step and nothing else - very few pass-rushing moves, very little lower-body strength to bull rush. He's more Mark Anderson than Mark Anderson: all straight-line speed. One thing, though: I remember reading that past offseason was the first time Adams ever did squats. Think about that for a minute. If the coaching staff thinks that Adams can pack on another 15-20 pounds of bulk with a real training program, he could have a lot of potential, but we probably won't see it until next season. He needs to add a bunch of weight and spend every waking hour with Marinelli learning his swim move, rip move, hump move, etc. Then we'll see if he was worth the 2nd-rounder.

 

Its a pretty sad statement when a player is considered a long term project when he was a top 10 draft pick and has been in the league a couple years.

 

You talk about Adams adding 15-20 pounds. Where is that coming from? If we were to bring in a new coach, okay, but Lovie likes his DEs in the 260-265 lb range. Why would Lovie try to get Adams into the 280s?

 

Also, this occurred to me the other day: if Adams can add 20 pounds and Gilbert ends up at LE, our starting DEs will be MUCH bigger (6'5" 280-285 pounds) than the usual Tampa-2 undersized guys. If we rotate Harris and Harrison at under tackle, we'd basically be a big nose tackle away from having a normal 4-3 front - that could make the transition a lot easier if we eventually ditch the scheme entirely.

 

Again, I don't know where the Adams gaining weight is coming from, but also, the staff has already said Gilbert is being developed at DT. I agree DE makes sense, but once they added Adams, they announced Gilbert would work at DT. I think Lovie envisions

 

Brown - Gilbert - Harris - Adams (with Harrison rotating at DT)

[nfoligno]

I think Lovie mentioned something about run defense, blah blah blah, but most reports I have read seem to question whether the decision was related to his work at practice. As Lovie not long ago told us Harris was sitting out for a game due to injury, only for us to find out later he was not injured, I am not sure we can put much faith into what Lovie says.

 

Lovie seems to be trying to involve younger players more of late, and Adams would stand to reason to be among them. Sorry, but I don't buy the run defense stuff. I think it is more likely the guy wasn't pleasing the coaches in practice. Now, that could mean he simply was not performing well enough, understanding the plays and assignments well enough, or simply screwing around. Who knows.

 

Right now though, this guy does not look very good.

 

it sounded as if they were punishing him for something. I hope this guy is not a asswad douche!

 

[Chitownhustla]

I think Lovie mentioned something about run defense, blah blah blah, but most reports I have read seem to question whether the decision was related to his work at practice. As Lovie not long ago told us Harris was sitting out for a game due to injury, only for us to find out later he was not injured, I am not sure we can put much faith into what Lovie says.

 

Lovie seems to be trying to involve younger players more of late, and Adams would stand to reason to be among them. Sorry, but I don't buy the run defense stuff. I think it is more likely the guy wasn't pleasing the coaches in practice. Now, that could mean he simply was not performing well enough, understanding the plays and assignments well enough, or simply screwing around. Who knows.

 

Right now though, this guy does not look very good.

 

I understand that Gaines was traded for because of Wale prolly being gone after this season. I understand the whole "giving up a 2nd for a top 5 pick " idea. What i dont understand is JA thinking getting another DE is so important while our oline is such crap. Would have been nice to get a OL in the 2nd round, typically you can find a OG in the second that would be able to play right away. Now we find out that Gaines is inactive and it is prolly because he isnt put out much effort. If this is the case then i will be pissed off. I hope we are not chalking this up to another wasted draft pick

[nfoligno]

I was sick the day I heard we made the trade. Here is a kid who was a top 5 pick, but thus far has looked like a bust. His own coach said that if he didn't step up his sacks this year, he would be considered a bust. So we spend a 2nd round pick on a kid whose own coach has labeled him a bust?

 

I understand that Gaines was traded for because of Wale prolly being gone after this season. I understand the whole "giving up a 2nd for a top 5 pick " idea. What i dont understand is JA thinking getting another DE is so important while our oline is such crap. Would have been nice to get a OL in the 2nd round, typically you can find a OG in the second that would be able to play right away. Now we find out that Gaines is inactive and it is prolly because he isnt put out much effort. If this is the case then i will be pissed off. I hope we are not chalking this up to another wasted draft pick

 

[Chitownhustla]

I was sick the day I heard we made the trade. Here is a kid who was a top 5 pick, but thus far has looked like a bust. His own coach said that if he didn't step up his sacks this year, he would be considered a bust. So we spend a 2nd round pick on a kid whose own coach has labeled him a bust?

 

 

I agree with you, i was just holding out hope that our coaches would get something out of him. Marnelli is suppose to be a great Dline coach. JA had won me over with the Cutler trade but is starting to get me to question him again. 1 not getting a WR in here 2 thinking the oline was going to be ok and now this trade.

 

Cutler trade=would do 100 times over

Signing Pace= are you kidding me

Oylmalye= r u kidding

Gaines= keeping my fingers crossed but maybe a 3rd would have been better

 

Also keeping my fingers crossed that Williams plays well at LT and Schaffer proves to be servicable!

[defiantgiant]

I was sick the day I heard we made the trade. Here is a kid who was a top 5 pick, but thus far has looked like a bust. His own coach said that if he didn't step up his sacks this year, he would be considered a bust. So we spend a 2nd round pick on a kid whose own coach has labeled him a bust?

To be fair, it's one thing to be a bust on a team that spent a top-5 pick on you, it's very different to be a bust for a team that got you for a 2nd-rounder. He could never live up to the expectations they had for him in Tampa and still be a worthwhile pickup for the Bears, as long as he ends up a decent starter. As for the gaining weight stuff, I remember reading it around the time of the trade...I'll see if I can dig up the article. It sounded like the coaching staff basically wanted Adams to have a full offseason of lifting and getting stronger before they started working him in. Adams himself put "getting stronger" as one of the big goals he's been working on in Chicago. The guy's built like a basketball player right now..he's got the skinniest legs I've ever seen for a DE. Even if Lovie likes his DEs to be light and quick, Adams needs to muscle up a lot, and from what I've read it sounds like that's what they're doing with him.

 

As for Gilbert to DE, that's basically my own wishful thinking, coupled with the fact that Gilbert said he was dropping weight last offseason. He's another guy who's reworking his body right now, from what I've read. He had some baby fat at 285, but he also looks like he has room to add muscle, so I guess he could go either way. Whether he ends up slimming down or bulking up probably determines whether he ends up at DE or DT. I'd be OK with either, as long as they don't try to play him as a 280-pound DT.

[nfoligno]

I agree with you, i was just holding out hope that our coaches would get something out of him. Marnelli is suppose to be a great Dline coach. JA had won me over with the Cutler trade but is starting to get me to question him again. 1 not getting a WR in here 2 thinking the oline was going to be ok and now this trade.

 

I am been a die hard JA basher. I loved the Cutler move, and even started to have fun and call him my BFF. Yet despite the Cutler move, the cumulative effect of the rest of JAs moves have destroyed this team.

 

Cutler trade=would do 100 times over

 

Agreed. I honestly believe that if Orton were still here, we would still feel the need to fix all the other offensive positions, but QB would also be added to that list, and likely be at or near the top. That is not a knock on Orton, but simply my believe that Orton would look like crap on this offense, as would any QB, and thus QB would be considered a top need. We have a lot of work to do, but I can't tell you how good it is to feel we have a QB in place to build around.

 

As bad as things are in Det, just ask a Lions fan how much better they feel about the future of their team w/ the belief they have their franchise QB in place, and need to build around him.

 

Signing Pace= are you kidding me

Oylmalye= r u kidding

 

I hated those moves then, and now, though I never thought either would be as bad as they have been.

 

Gaines= keeping my fingers crossed but maybe a 3rd would have been better

 

Honestly, I am not even bothering w/ the crossing of fingers. He was a bust for a team with a much better rep of developing defensive players. Sometimes a player just needs a chance of scenery, but even Benson showed more after joining Cincy mid-season than Adams has. Adams has yet to even show a flash of potential.

 

I was among those who bought into all the Marinelli hype, but no more. I am not saying we have a top tier group of players along the DL, and I did not expect elite play. I did expect to see improvement and development, and thus far, I have not seen jack. Along the DL, we have young players likeL:

 

Anderson - One thing rarely mentioned in his stunted development is that he had 12 sacks as a rookie, when Rivera was the DC and Don Johnson was the DL coach. Since both were allowed to walk, Anderson has looked like crap. Was he just a one year wonder, or is it possible Rivera/Johnson were better able to coach/position him to do well than Babich, Haley and Marinelli?

 

Harrison - Here is a player who supposedly was a 1st round talent that fell in the draft due to some character issues. This was a player often pointed to when it was asked who Marinelli could really help. Frankly, I think I saw more flashes of potential from him as a rookie than this year, and even than, the flashers were few and far between.

 

Gilbert- 3rd round DL who comes w/ tremendous athleticism and potential, yet could not even get activated until it was time to "call up" the minor leaguers.

 

And how about Harris? I read dozens (literally) of articles talking about how Marinelli was going to get Harris back to the pro bowl level he once owned. Marinelli was going to do for Harris what he did for Sapp.

 

Marinelli seems to honestly be a very nice guy, but we were sold on how he is an elite DL coach. Maybe our talent really is just that bad, which makes our future prospects that much worse. Or maybe Marinelli is just not as great as advertised.

 

Personally, I think it is a combo. I think (a) talent is not as good as hopes ( Marinelli is not as great as advertised and © talent is limited in a system that may not best suit them, and Marinelli is not allowed/capable of going in another direction to maximize their talent.

 

Also keeping my fingers crossed that Williams plays well at LT and Schaffer proves to be servicable!

 

I'll cross my fingers on Williams. I said when we drafted him that I felt he could be a Brockemeyer like LT, and for the record, I liked Blake. Like Brock, he could be a very good pass blocker, but average run blocker.

 

Schaffer? Lets see. Buffalo felt St. Clair was an upgrade over this guy. Ouch. Frankly, I have more hope Omiyale could develop into a RT.

[nfoligno]

To be fair, it's one thing to be a bust on a team that spent a top-5 pick on you, it's very different to be a bust for a team that got you for a 2nd-rounder. He could never live up to the expectations they had for him in Tampa and still be a worthwhile pickup for the Bears, as long as he ends up a decent starter. As for the gaining weight stuff, I remember reading it around the time of the trade...I'll see if I can dig up the article. It sounded like the coaching staff basically wanted Adams to have a full offseason of lifting and getting stronger before they started working him in. Adams himself put "getting stronger" as one of the big goals he's been working on in Chicago. The guy's built like a basketball player right now..he's got the skinniest legs I've ever seen for a DE. Even if Lovie likes his DEs to be light and quick, Adams needs to muscle up a lot, and from what I've read it sounds like that's what they're doing with him.

 

While I agree expectations and pressure are not as great for him today as they were after being taken in the top 5, I would argue they are still pretty dang high. The team didn't spend a top 5 pick, but did give up a 2nd round pick which (a) is their top pick in the draft, ( is going to be a pretty high 2nd round pick and © 2nd round picks are pretty high in value anyway. Not saying the pressure is equal, but it is still considerable, both for him and the staff, as JA will feel the need to show he was worth the pick.

 

Regarding weight, don't spend much time. I would love to read the articles. I was in Napa Valley on vacation when the trade went down, and really didn't read much until a while after it happened, and as there was also a game, articles about him were a bit lost in the shuffle.

 

But w/ that said, while I can understand working on muscle and strength, I am not sure that equates to weight. Working on getting stronger is a bit of the norm in the NFL, but players are not usually trying to add weight. Understand. I would love to see a 280lb DE that can rush the passer, but that simply is not really what Lovie does. Think about how they have played w/ Idonije's weight. Our staff likes their DEs to be in the 260s. I just can't see our staff wanting Adams to add 20lbs if they want him to play DE.

 

As for Gilbert to DE, that's basically my own wishful thinking, coupled with the fact that Gilbert said he was dropping weight last offseason. He's another guy who's reworking his body right now, from what I've read. He had some baby fat at 285, but he also looks like he has room to add muscle, so I guess he could go either way. Whether he ends up slimming down or bulking up probably determines whether he ends up at DE or DT. I'd be OK with either, as long as they don't try to play him as a 280-pound DT.

 

Again, I think you and I would like the same things, but what our ideal of a DE or DT may be I think is different from what Lovie likes. Lovie likes lighter DL.

 

We just gave up a 2nd round pick for a DE that was drafted in the top 5. I think you would agree the plan is for him to start at DE. I do not think the plan is for him to replace Brown, which means he is viewed as the eventual replacement for Wale. Assuming this, I believe that DE may have been the original thinking for Gilbert, but after adding Adams, we shifted our thinking and plan to play him at DT.

 

 

[madlithuanian]

It's another thing to bust on a 2nd when it's your only decently high pick of the drat when you are hurting at OL...

 

It's a reach and looks like a big whiff...

 

To be fair, it's one thing to be a bust on a team that spent a top-5 pick on you, it's very different to be a bust for a team that got you for a 2nd-rounder. He could never live up to the expectations they had for him in Tampa and still be a worthwhile pickup for the Bears, as long as he ends up a decent starter. As for the gaining weight stuff, I remember reading it around the time of the trade...I'll see if I can dig up the article. It sounded like the coaching staff basically wanted Adams to have a full offseason of lifting and getting stronger before they started working him in. Adams himself put "getting stronger" as one of the big goals he's been working on in Chicago. The guy's built like a basketball player right now..he's got the skinniest legs I've ever seen for a DE. Even if Lovie likes his DEs to be light and quick, Adams needs to muscle up a lot, and from what I've read it sounds like that's what they're doing with him.

 

As for Gilbert to DE, that's basically my own wishful thinking, coupled with the fact that Gilbert said he was dropping weight last offseason. He's another guy who's reworking his body right now, from what I've read. He had some baby fat at 285, but he also looks like he has room to add muscle, so I guess he could go either way. Whether he ends up slimming down or bulking up probably determines whether he ends up at DE or DT. I'd be OK with either, as long as they don't try to play him as a 280-pound DT.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

I imagine it was because hes terrible

[Lucky Luciano]

That said, I think Adams is more of a long-term project that people are letting on. Right now, he's basically got a killer first step and nothing else - very few pass-rushing moves, very little lower-body strength to bull rush. He's more Mark Anderson than Mark Anderson: all straight-line speed. One thing, though: I remember reading that past offseason was the first time Adams ever did squats. Think about that for a minute. If the coaching staff thinks that Adams can pack on another 15-20 pounds of bulk with a real training program, he could have a lot of potential, but we probably won't see it until next season. He needs to add a bunch of weight and spend every waking hour with Marinelli learning his swim move, rip move, hump move, etc. Then we'll see if he was worth the 2nd-rounder.

 

Also, this occurred to me the other day: if Adams can add 20 pounds and Gilbert ends up at LE, our starting DEs will be MUCH bigger (6'5" 280-285 pounds) than the usual Tampa-2 undersized guys. If we rotate Harris and Harrison at under tackle, we'd basically be a big nose tackle away from having a normal 4-3 front - that could make the transition a lot easier if we eventually ditch the scheme entirely.

 

here's the problem...

 

this is the same crap angelo has been doing since he got here. replacing defensive players up for contract (or he plans on cutting) who are average and replacing them with average/reach players either in the draft or in free agency. he has done it at safety, DE, DT and LB. it's like a freaking defensive merry-go-round.

 

all this time he neglects drafting quality players for the holes in this team that take TIME to develop such as qb or offensive linemen and the only reason i can think of why, is he:

 

1. wants players 'supposedly' ready to contribute immediately to cover his arse.

2. is keeping this team in money to enhance the cap by bringing in players to compete with others to knock down present player upcoming salary requirements.

3. is plain stupid and couldn't tell a good offensive player from a red assed baboon (which bandwagon >>I

 

[nfoligno]

this is the same crap angelo has been doing since he got here. replacing defensive players up for contract (or he plans on cutting) who are average and replacing them with average/reach players either in the draft or in free agency. he has done it at safety, DE, DT and LB. it's like a freaking defensive merry-go-round.

 

Honestly not sure I understand your argument. I get the "replacing average players" part. But in Adams, you don't have an average player really. Adams is more likely a boom/bust type. He was a top 5 pick, and thus (talent wise) should not be considered an average type player. Hey, I hate the pick and move and feel we gave up way to much, but I am not sure how this would fit his old moves.

 

Also, I am not sure how you lump in the other positions you use.

 

S - Likely my top complaint over the years. I would agree w/ you 100% here that we replace average players w/ average players. Frankly, I think S is simply a position Angelo doesn't consider a "skill" position, and likely feels it is the "dime a dozen" sort. But I don't think the manner in which he has addressed S comes close to how he has handled DL or LB.

 

LB - How has he replaced average players w/ average or reach players? He inherited Urlacher, and re-signed him. He drafted Briggs to replace Holdman, which was an upgrade. The SLB has seen numerous faces, but is a 2 down position, and just not as key as many want it to be. He has otherwise simply drafted depth.

 

DE - He spent very big on Wale, who looked elite at the time, to replace Daniels. Not a case of replacing average w/ average. Brown was drafted, and developed nicely. Never great, but great value for the 4th. W/ those two starters, we have not really invested huge at DE, drafting a bunch of high talent guys mid to later in the draft for depth.

 

DT - Spent a mid 1st round pick on Harris, and a high 3rds on Gilbert, Harrison and Dusty (two very different types), not to mention drafting many more over the years.

 

If you want to question his ability to evaluate, or the coaches ability to develop, fine. I'll run w/ you on that one. I just don't understand your argument here though. S, LB, DE and DT are a group of positions we have addressed VERY different over the years, and yet you seem to lump them together.

 

all this time he neglects drafting quality players for the holes in this team that take TIME to develop such as qb or offensive linemen and the only reason i can think of why, is he:

 

At QB, I think it is more about evaluating than method. He spent a high pick on Rex. He spent a middle round pick on Orton. He spent several late picks on others. He signed a guy who was the backup behind a solid starter (Quinn) which other teams have found success doing. He has signed both developmental players and older (and even damn old) veterans. And now traded for a pro bowler. Frankly, Angelo has tried to get a QB just about every way possible. I think the issue at QB is far more about evaluation than it is simply how we went about finding the QB.

 

I agree 100% w/ you about the OL, and use Angelo's own words to bash him. Angelo said a couple years ago that OL takes time to develop (more than most positions in his mind) and that is why he prefers to go the FA route. I think Angelo also (like at S) places the value of the OL lower than what many on this board would. He values the LT position, and thus has tried to fill it by twice using 1st round picks, and once spending big money (Tait), but the rest of the positions I just don't feel he values as highly. There was a time that was mostly true. Your LT was the key and the rest were near fillers, but today, OGs make mega bucks and all OL positions are considered at a high level. I think Angelo is stuck w/ a 20 year old mindset that it may be difficult to find a LT (thus 2 #1s and big FA money spent) but the rest of the positions can be easily added.

 

1. wants players 'supposedly' ready to contribute immediately to cover his arse.

 

I don't see this, as many of his draft picks were actually raw players who were expected to need time to develop, and doing so w/ picks higher than most would otherwise spend. Many teams use 5th round picks and lower on players who are considered raw, yet we will spend 3rd and even 2nd round picks on such players.

 

2. is keeping this team in money to enhance the cap by bringing in players to compete with others to knock down present player upcoming salary requirements.

 

Don't even get this one and not going there. We spend plenty of money on re-signing our own, as well as adding players through FA. The problem is not saving money for future cap or whatever, but who we actually spend our money on. Like when we needed a WR, and spent big on a WR, but gave that money to Moose.

 

3. is plain stupid and couldn't tell a good offensive player from a red assed baboon (which bandwagon >>I

 

I like this one. Angelo's background was as a defensive scout. Even when he was at his highest level prior to us, he was working for a team known to have great D but crappy offense. There should be little surprise he has not proven capable of spotting offensive talent, either in the draft or FA.

[defiantgiant]

3. is plain stupid and couldn't tell a good offensive player from a red assed baboon (which bandwagon >>I

 

I like this one. Angelo's background was as a defensive scout. Even when he was at his highest level prior to us, he was working for a team known to have great D but crappy offense. There should be little surprise he has not proven capable of spotting offensive talent, either in the draft or FA.

Yup, that's exactly it. The only thing Angelo's been able to do consistently in the draft is find decent defensive players on Day 2. If he were an area scout, instead of the GM, that'd be fine. But he's garbage at early picks and hardly ever makes a good pick on offense. That's part of why I like the Cutler trade - we got a young player, and somebody else has already done the talent evaluation. It's also a big reason not to like the Gaines Adams trade: Angelo got Alex Brown in the 4th round and Mark Anderson in the 5th - why did he need to trade a 2nd for a project DE? Couldn't he have just picked one up late in the draft like he always does? I'm sure there will be plenty of raw, athletic d-linemen who need tons of development available on Day 2 - Gilbert and Melton certainly were last year. Angelo can spend a 4th on a DE every year for all I care, but for christ's sake, use that 2nd to get the offensive line some help.

[clnr]

I don't necessarily like the Adams move, since I wanted OL, FS or maybe WR with that pick. But I will not judge it as a bust until this time next year. As stated above, we "drafted" a DE with that pick.

 

BTW, Schaeffer getting cut by the Browns had more to do with money than skill. They saved money by getting St. Clair instead. How has he been in Cleveland? Anyone know?

[madlithuanian]

How about we swtich to a 3-4 and try the guy as a LB in that scheme? Just a thought....

 

I don't necessarily like the Adams move, since I wanted OL, FS or maybe WR with that pick. But I will not judge it as a bust until this time next year. As stated above, we "drafted" a DE with that pick.

 

BTW, Schaeffer getting cut by the Browns had more to do with money than skill. They saved money by getting St. Clair instead. How has he been in Cleveland? Anyone know?

 

[nfoligno]

I don't necessarily like the Adams move, since I wanted OL, FS or maybe WR with that pick. But I will not judge it as a bust until this time next year. As stated above, we "drafted" a DE with that pick.

 

I am not calling it a bust at this point, but I do think it fair to say this move is not looking good. I understand your logic, but Adams is not a draft pick. He is not a rookie. He is now a veteran (though still young) player, and thus I think it fair to have greater expectations earlier on. No, it may be a bit much to expect him to join a team mid-seaon and immediately win a starting job. At the same time, we are talking about a player who was play, and thus in game shape. He came from a similar scheme that uses similar terminology and sets. I think there absolutely is reason to have expected him to come in an contribute. Now only has he failed to contribute, he has failed to even show a glimmer of flash to evidence why we gave up a 7th, much less a 2nd round pick for him.

 

BTW, Schaeffer getting cut by the Browns had more to do with money than skill. They saved money by getting St. Clair instead.

 

While I agree it was about money, it was also about skill. Simply put, the team didn't believe Schaffer was as good as the contract he signed some years earlier. The team did save about $1.5m in cap space overall, but also had to eat $4.5m in the process. Then, when you factor they signed St. Clair, they in fact saved nothing, as they were still on the hook (looking at the books) for the same money allocated to the RT position.

 

So while his release did factor money, talent was the greater factor. At the end of the day, they saved little to nothing in his release, and felt St. Clair was better at RT than Schaffer, which IMHO, is a pretty damning statement.

 

How has he been in Cleveland? Anyone know?

 

Until last night, I had not watched a Cle game, but I do not believe their OL in general has played well. I have no idea how much of their OL woes have had to do w/ St. Clair, but last night, I don't think he looked very good. He had one pretty bad holding penalty to prevent a sack, and I think may have had more. He was playing Pitt though.

[defiantgiant]

Yeah, St. Clair's played decently in Cleveland. I think the Browns really soured on Shaffer when they tried to play him at left tackle and he sucked. The guy's a pure right tackle. Then again, St. Clair was exposed at LT for the Bears and has looked OK at RT on the Browns, so if Shaffer keeps playing acceptably at RT, I think the trade is pretty much a wash.

[Lucky Luciano]

Honestly not sure I understand your argument. I get the "replacing average players" part. But in Adams, you don't have an average player really. Adams is more likely a boom/bust type. He was a top 5 pick, and thus (talent wise) should not be considered an average type player. Hey, I hate the pick and move and feel we gave up way to much, but I am not sure how this would fit his old moves.

 

at this point right now if he is not average or even below average what do YOU think he is? you stated he shouldn't be considered an average type player yet you have even stated in this same thread that you don't think he was worth even a 7th round pick. so what makes average to you?

 

i look at gaines adams RDE as not only someone who fits both of those definitions but who was supposedly brought in to replace who? wally our LEFT defensive end who has averaged over 6 sacks per season and at least has had double digit sacks in his career whose contract is up this season? or are we replacing alex brown who has averaged over 5 sacks per year who is still under contract? or mark anderson as a rotational backup DE whose contract is also up?

 

1. average - i am not talking about 'potential' or draft day speculation but the facts and statistics adams has shown, not in college, but in the nfl. after TWO coaching schemes, below, this is his portfolio before being traded for a 2nd round draft pick...

 

"Adams, the fourth overall pick in the 2007 draft, had been a disappointment in his first two seasons under coach Jon Gruden. He was supposed to get a fresh start under coach Raheem Morris.

 

Morris singled out the 6-foot-5, 258-pound defensive end on the opening day of training camp, saying Adams would be considered a "bust" if he didn't post double-digit sacks this season." http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4567083

 

he is a RDE who so far has shown to be even less of a player than we currently have under contract in alex brown which incidently both seem to be destined for 6-7 sacks per season.

 

2. reach - we have traded away a potential high first day pick in the hopes that our system or coaching staff can turn his careeer around from poor to mediocre even after seeing the results of playing 2 season in tampa just because he was drafted high. that's not a classic example of an angelo reach?

 

Also, I am not sure how you lump in the other positions you use.

 

S - Likely my top complaint over the years. I would agree w/ you 100% here that we replace average players w/ average players. Frankly, I think S is simply a position Angelo doesn't consider a "skill" position, and likely feels it is the "dime a dozen" sort. But I don't think the manner in which he has addressed S comes close to how he has handled DL or LB.

 

LB - How has he replaced average players w/ average or reach players? He inherited Urlacher, and re-signed him. He drafted Briggs to replace Holdman, which was an upgrade. The SLB has seen numerous faces, but is a 2 down position, and just not as key as many want it to be. He has otherwise simply drafted depth.

 

DE - He spent very big on Wale, who looked elite at the time, to replace Daniels. Not a case of replacing average w/ average. Brown was drafted, and developed nicely. Never great, but great value for the 4th. W/ those two starters, we have not really invested huge at DE, drafting a bunch of high talent guys mid to later in the draft for depth.

 

DT - Spent a mid 1st round pick on Harris, and a high 3rds on Gilbert, Harrison and Dusty (two very different types), not to mention drafting many more over the years.

 

If you want to question his ability to evaluate, or the coaches ability to develop, fine. I'll run w/ you on that one. I just don't understand your argument here though. S, LB, DE and DT are a group of positions we have addressed VERY different over the years, and yet you seem to lump them together.

 

really? let's see...

 

S: dime a dozen? he drafted 7 safeties in 8 years. a safety high in round 2 (which i might add was our FIRST pick in the 2006 draft), 2 in the 4th round, and 2 in the 5th round. all the while he had mike brown as a lock starter at one safety position for 6-7 years of his tenure.

 

LB: in 8 years of drafts we drafted 8 linebackers. 7 of them for depth?? we had a lock in the middle with url and ONE of his early 3rd round draft picks, his second draft in 2003, was playing well enough to be going to a pro-bowl within 3 years. can anyone doubt that the great 3rd round pick okwo was drafted to replace briggs if he didn't come under contract? how much is a 3rd round pick worth to beat down a pro-bowl backers contract demands? where is the future mike replacement for an aging url? how nice would it have been to have a good + strong side backer over the years?

 

DE: huh? not invested huge? in 8 years we drafted 7 defensive ends. 3 of those are first day picks with not a single starter!! haynes rd. #1, bazuin rd. #2, and gilbert rd. #3. add 2 more 4th rounders and after all this we have ONE defensive end who is may be average or a bit above? can you name a reach for angie in this group? who did we draft again to replace our average, according to angelo, RDE (a. brown)?

 

DT: we drafted 6 tackles and not a single one below the 5th round. in fact 4 were first day picks. see any reaches in this bunch?

 

that comes out to a total of 7 first day picks for our DL and we have one quality player, t. harris, who is injured (or sucks or who knows what) and one 4th round RDE who is average.

 

question his ability to evaluate? isn't that the reason we are writing threads like this? if he could evaluate ANY talent on either side of the ball would any of this be needed?

 

Angelo's background was as a defensive scout. Even when he was at his highest level prior to us, he was working for a team known to have great D but crappy offense. There should be little surprise he has not proven capable of spotting offensive talent, either in the draft or FA.

 

little surprise? are you serious? I'M surprised!!!!!! if anybody expected him incapable to judge and draft offensive talent then just what is he doing in a GM's position? this falls also right on our glorious bean counting president and the glorious, faceless company that chose angelo, after months of deliberation, as a candidate.

[AZ54]

The only reason Adams is a Bears is because he's a wimp. Well at least that's my assessment. He has no muscle and no conditioning. You can see some of his quickness to get to the edge but if anyone gets a hand on his shoulder he doesn't have the strength to bend around the corner. I didn't expect much from him this year but I didn't expect him to be as bad as he is. He's a project for next year but here's my biggest concern:

 

Is Lovie the right guy to turn him around?

 

I don't see it. Perhaps Marinelli is but let's be clear if the players lose faith in the head coach and the overall scheme position coaches no longer matter.

[defiantgiant]

The only reason Adams is a Bears is because he's a wimp. Well at least that's my assessment. He has no muscle and no conditioning. You can see some of his quickness to get to the edge but if anyone gets a hand on his shoulder he doesn't have the strength to bend around the corner. I didn't expect much from him this year but I didn't expect him to be as bad as he is. He's a project for next year but here's my biggest concern:

 

Is Lovie the right guy to turn him around?

 

I don't see it. Perhaps Marinelli is but let's be clear if the players lose faith in the head coach and the overall scheme position coaches no longer matter.

Yeah, I think that's a big question. A great position coach can definitely turn a player around physically and mentally, but I don't think you can do it midseason.

 

Look at what Benson's been doing in Cincinnati. When the Bengals got him in midseason last year, he still looked a lot like he did in Chicago: he was playing harder, but he still had slow feet, poor acceleration through the hole, no patience for blocks to develop, no redirection to cut a run back to the outside. After one offseason working with their RB coach, Jim Anderson (who was responsible for Corey Dillon and Rudi Johnson,) he looks like a whole different running back, both physically and mentally. When they got him midseason, he was playing like he did with his old team; after an offseason, he's playing up to his potential.

 

Gaines Adams, thus far, has looked pretty much like he did with the Bucs - he's very fast from what I've seen, but he never seems to translate that into making plays. I don't know if Marinelli can pull a miracle with Adams the way Jim Anderson did with Benson: if he can, he's a position coach we need to retain. But the bottom line is this: I really don't think we'll know one way or another until Marinelli's had a whole offseason to work on Adams.