Zombie Smith to U of Tenn.?

[defiantgiant]

Yeah, nfo, I think that's spot on. The organization, since Phillips took over, has proven that they're willing to pay for players. The problem is that they're paying for the wrong ones. Yes, they let Berrian walk because of money, and they traded Jones rather than lock him up long-term, but that just reflects poor personnel evaluation. It's not that they won't pay anybody, it's that they undervalue good players and overvalue lousy ones (see: Pace, Orlando; Archuleta, Adam; Lloyd, Brandon) that's not a problem with ownership, it's a problem with the personnel department, which is Jerry Angelo. If we had a GM who could evaluate talent, maybe the organization would pay the right guys and stop paying washed-up retreads from the Rams.

[bowlingtwig]

Yeah, nfo, I think that's spot on. The organization, since Phillips took over, has proven that they're willing to pay for players. The problem is that they're paying for the wrong ones. Yes, they let Berrian walk because of money, and they traded Jones rather than lock him up long-term, but that just reflects poor personnel evaluation. It's not that they won't pay anybody, it's that they undervalue good players and overvalue lousy ones (see: Pace, Orlando; Archuleta, Adam; Lloyd, Brandon) that's not a problem with ownership, it's a problem with the personnel department, which is Jerry Angelo. If we had a GM who could evaluate talent, maybe the organization would pay the right guys and stop paying washed-up retreads from the Rams.

U are totally spot on with this. I tried to argue this point with a stupid Pucker fan that I work with and he was so stupid to believe me.

[madlithuanian]

No doubt the grass is always greener to an extent.

 

I'm not sure everyone is crying for Jerry Jones. In fact, I think more people bring up teams like the Colts, Steelers, and Pats moes than the Cowboys or Redskins.

 

People just want success. When you're not getting it, virtually ANY alternative appears better than the status quo. At least there is a gillmer of hope vs nothing. Would you rather swing hard and miss or attempt to bunt...and still miss?

 

When there is talk of a new HC and/or GM, you will always hear from the family.

 

Honestly, I sort of have to chuckle to an extent. No, our ownership is far from ideal. At the same time, I also think many fans suffer from "grass is always greener".

 

Here is Dallas, we have a very well known owner. He spends money like Bear fans want, and obviously cares very much about football. Then again, Jerry Jones is also the GM of the team. He rarely hires big name coaches, as he doesn't seem to value coaches a great deal. He ran off Jimmy Johnson, believing Jimmy got too much praise, and replaced Jimmy w/ a bunch of college and other unqualified guys. Then he changes course and hires Parcells, but meddles w/ moves like Terrell Owens and some forced draft picks, and things don't workout. Then he makes moves like hiring an OC before the HC, and neutering the HC.

 

Point is, I think many bear fans would say Jerry is a better owner than the McCaskey's, but I am not sure that is really true. Jerry got lucky when he hired Jimmy Johnson. He hired Jimmy because, as a college coach, he was cheap and Jerry didn't believe in paying much for coaches. Since Jimmy, this team has really gone downhill. And yet Jerry is still considered a bit ticket owner. To me, he is simply a slightly luckier version of Danny Snyder.

 

In Pitt, you have a very highly respected family ownership in the Rooney's, but consider a thing or two. Their fans scream nearly every year as so many of their best players leave in FA because (a) owners won't dole out the big bucks to keep them and ( owners put in place a rule prohibiting the team from negotiating contracts w/ more than 1 year remaining. Pitt has seen so much success, but how much of that is due to ownership?

 

NO has an owner that threatened to leave the city while they were dealing w/ a natural disaster.

 

AZ gained the reputation as the arm pit of the NFL, w/ an ownership cheap on a level that made ours look free spending.

 

The list goes on and on. Sure, there are some truly great ownerships in the NFL, but I would say the majority (if you ask their fans) are far from great.

 

I think the reputation our ownership gained over the years (well deserved) prevents many fans from realizing the changes. I simply do not believe the problem is nearly so much about ownership, or Ted Phillips. I think the problem is w/ our GM and down.

 

[madlithuanian]

The organization is paying (dearly for Smith actually...), but the fact is they have made poor decisions over and over again on who and what they are paying.

 

I suppose it's better than the cheapness before...

 

But if we're still here sans SB trophy and discussing the possibility that the rest of the league is laughing at this franchise, is it truly any better? Or have we just gone from one way of being mediocre to another?

 

Yeah, nfo, I think that's spot on. The organization, since Phillips took over, has proven that they're willing to pay for players. The problem is that they're paying for the wrong ones. Yes, they let Berrian walk because of money, and they traded Jones rather than lock him up long-term, but that just reflects poor personnel evaluation. It's not that they won't pay anybody, it's that they undervalue good players and overvalue lousy ones (see: Pace, Orlando; Archuleta, Adam; Lloyd, Brandon) that's not a problem with ownership, it's a problem with the personnel department, which is Jerry Angelo. If we had a GM who could evaluate talent, maybe the organization would pay the right guys and stop paying washed-up retreads from the Rams.

 

[madlithuanian]

If JA is the problem, Teddy needed to get rid of him. He didn't, and that makes Teddy responsible.

 

U are totally spot on with this. I tried to argue this point with a stupid Pucker fan that I work with and he was so stupid to believe me.

 

[nfoligno]

I'm not sure everyone is crying for Jerry Jones. In fact, I think more people bring up teams like the Colts, Steelers, and Pats moes than the Cowboys or Redskins.

 

Anone would be envious of the colts, steelers and Pats due to how successful they have been. But just to ask, how much of that is ownership?

 

Is Kraft the reason NE is successful or Billichek? Yes, I realize Kraft hired Billichek, but that isn't the point. Did you realize that NE has a similar structure as we, w/ a non-football, family member, attorney as president. They hit jackpot when they hired Billichek, and I think few would argue w/ that. But does that one great hire mean their ownership is really so great? Not too long ago, many would have said similar about Jerry Jones, who had hired Parcells. Then Parcells leaves and Jerry is seen in a very different spotlight.

 

Its easy to point out to small handful of teams like the above, and say "I want that". So does everyone. But I would simply argue it is more about the management than the ownership. The owners got lucky in a hire they made. If Angelo had turned out to be someone like Polian, wanna bet how many other teams fans would wish they had owners as great as ours? Funny to say, I realize, but to me, that is the difference in the perception.

 

Take a look at the teams in the league, and then consider the ownership situation for each. I think you will find most of those teams have fans that very strongly question how good their ownership is.

 

People just want success. When you're not getting it, virtually ANY alternative appears better than the status quo. At least there is a gillmer of hope vs nothing. Would you rather swing hard and miss or attempt to bunt...and still miss?

 

How about swing for contact and just try to get a hit. Does it have to be swinging for a homerun or trying to lay down a bunt. Honestly, not sure exactly how this analogy applies, but hey, you started it

[bowlingtwig]

If JA is the problem, Teddy needed to get rid of him. He didn't, and that makes Teddy responsible.

Your right, your absolutely right. I hold everyone accountable for this, the players for appearing not to try sometimes, I blame the coaching staff because they can't seem to call a good game plan during the game and for not getting the players to play hard for 60+ minutes every game. I blame JA for not getting the right players in hear and for paying big for the wrong guys. Then I blame Teddy for recognizing the faults of JA and still doing nothing about it.

[madlithuanian]

Blech!

 

It's just so unforuntate...

 

It's a perfect storm at the moment. Hopefully the ship can be at least righted to get out of the eye of the storm this upcoming season...

 

Your right, your absolutely right. I hold everyone accountable for this, the players for appearing not to try sometimes, I blame the coaching staff because they can't seem to call a good game plan during the game and for not getting the players to play hard for 60+ minutes every game. I blame JA for not getting the right players in hear and for paying big for the wrong guys. Then I blame Teddy for recognizing the faults of JA and still doing nothing about it.

 

[balta1701-A]

Point is, I think many bear fans would say Jerry is a better owner than the McCaskey's, but I am not sure that is really true. Jerry got lucky when he hired Jimmy Johnson. He hired Jimmy because, as a college coach, he was cheap and Jerry didn't believe in paying much for coaches.

He also got quite lucky in having Minnesota hand him the equivalent of 3 Super Bowls worth of draft picks in exchange for 1 RB.

[BearSox]

I want an owner like Author Blank of the Falcons. Someone who is willing to spend money and obviously cares deeply about his team (always goes down to the sidelines at the end of the game to congratulate or console his players), but lets the football people he hires run the team.

 

Thats what we need here in Chicago. However, I'd rather have an owner who at least tries to win in Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder, rather than an owner who only cares about cashing in like McCasky.

[madlithuanian]

Luck plays a factor in everything on this earth...

 

But still, last I checked those guys didn't go seeking out firms to figure out their hire. They "lucked" out on their own. There's something to at least be said for that.

 

And of course, everyone wants to emulate good things! Why wouldn't you?

 

As much as you may say those ownerships may not be all that...the fact of the matter is that they are successful, and ours is not. And, from former players, to media, to you name it...the McCaskey's are NEVER thought of as being good owners by virtually anyone. All fans question virtually every ownership. Even successful ones. But, the questions get louder and more vicious the poorer a team is.

 

Maybe I didn't get my "swing" analogy spot on... The element I wanted to say is at least just swing for the love of all that's holy! We bunted, and appears we completely missed the ball! I don't mind whiffing and stkigin out as long as a valiant attempt is made. But to lift the bat up and hope the ball hits it, to me, is inexcusable.

 

 

I'm not sure everyone is crying for Jerry Jones. In fact, I think more people bring up teams like the Colts, Steelers, and Pats moes than the Cowboys or Redskins.

 

Anone would be envious of the colts, steelers and Pats due to how successful they have been. But just to ask, how much of that is ownership?

 

Is Kraft the reason NE is successful or Billichek? Yes, I realize Kraft hired Billichek, but that isn't the point. Did you realize that NE has a similar structure as we, w/ a non-football, family member, attorney as president. They hit jackpot when they hired Billichek, and I think few would argue w/ that. But does that one great hire mean their ownership is really so great? Not too long ago, many would have said similar about Jerry Jones, who had hired Parcells. Then Parcells leaves and Jerry is seen in a very different spotlight.

 

Its easy to point out to small handful of teams like the above, and say "I want that". So does everyone. But I would simply argue it is more about the management than the ownership. The owners got lucky in a hire they made. If Angelo had turned out to be someone like Polian, wanna bet how many other teams fans would wish they had owners as great as ours? Funny to say, I realize, but to me, that is the difference in the perception.

 

Take a look at the teams in the league, and then consider the ownership situation for each. I think you will find most of those teams have fans that very strongly question how good their ownership is.

 

People just want success. When you're not getting it, virtually ANY alternative appears better than the status quo. At least there is a gillmer of hope vs nothing. Would you rather swing hard and miss or attempt to bunt...and still miss?

 

How about swing for contact and just try to get a hit. Does it have to be swinging for a homerun or trying to lay down a bunt. Honestly, not sure exactly how this analogy applies, but hey, you started it

 

[balta1701-A]

I want an owner like Author Blank of the Falcons. Someone who is willing to spend money and obviously cares deeply about his team (always goes down to the sidelines at the end of the game to congratulate or console his players), but lets the football people he hires run the team.

You realize that if you wrote this about 1.5 years ago, you'd be laughed out of the state?

[nfoligno]

Jerry Jones is willing to spend money, and cares about his team. He too heads down to the sideline, but often is ripped when he does it.

 

Grass is always greener. You say you would rather an owner like Jones or Snyder, but I think you would be shocked at how many of their fans wish their owner would sell the team.

 

Here in Dallas, the team has started to do well of late, but you would be shocked if you heard fans here. Until a couple weeks ago, a comment thought among fans was the team would not win another SB so long as Jones owned the team. Fans here have been praying Jones would give the team to his son, and take a hike.

 

I want an owner like Author Blank of the Falcons. Someone who is willing to spend money and obviously cares deeply about his team (always goes down to the sidelines at the end of the game to congratulate or console his players), but lets the football people he hires run the team.

 

Thats what we need here in Chicago. However, I'd rather have an owner who at least tries to win in Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder, rather than an owner who only cares about cashing in like McCasky.

 

[BearSox]

And how many Bear fans want the McCaskeys gone?

 

No matter where you go, there is going to be a certain amount of fans who want new ownership.

[madlithuanian]

I want them gone!

 

The grass is greener! Well, at least the turf is better!

 

And how many Bear fans want the McCaskeys gone?

 

No matter where you go, there is going to be a certain amount of fans who want new ownership.

 

[DaBearSox]

Should sell the team to the fans have ownership like the Pack do

[bowlingtwig]

Should sell the team to the fans have ownership like the Pack do

Yeah and then next season comes around with an uncapped year and we are screwed.

[Uncle Buck]

I think the Ted Phillips evaluation needs to be based substantially on the hires he made. If we are giving him credit for getting the coffers opened fine, but don't heap praise for the stadium deal. I guarantee that deal happened only because a McCaskey, namely Michael, was not standing in front of Mayor Daley.

 

Right or wrong, the Angelo hiring is on Ted and rightfully so. It does not matter whether he was a bean counter in his prior life, the McCaskey family entrusted him to get the job done and under his tenure the team has been mediocre.

 

Opening the coffers is fine, give him credit if we believe he caused that. But the team has not been stellar under his guidance and that has to be part of the factor in deciding whether or not to launch him when the Lovie/Angelo experiment runs its course after this season.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I think the Ted Phillips evaluation needs to be based substantially on the hires he made. If we are giving him credit for getting the coffers opened fine, but don't heap praise for the stadium deal. I guarantee that deal happened only because a McCaskey, namely Michael, was not standing in front of Mayor Daley.

 

Right or wrong, the Angelo hiring is on Ted and rightfully so. It does not matter whether he was a bean counter in his prior life, the McCaskey family entrusted him to get the job done and under his tenure the team has been mediocre.

 

Opening the coffers is fine, give him credit if we believe he caused that. But the team has not been stellar under his guidance and that has to be part of the factor in deciding whether or not to launch him when the Lovie/Angelo experiment runs its course after this season.

What makes you think that? Everything every talked about the stadium gave full credit to Phillips and said he was the key player that got things done.

 

So what you are saying just isn't true.

[madlithuanian]

Here's the bigger question...

 

Granted Ted was integral. However, could any very good fnancial man have done it as well? IE. was all that was needed is a sound business guy whose last name didn't end in McCaskey?

 

 

 

What makes you think that? Everything every talked about the stadium gave full credit to Phillips and said he was the key player that got things done.

 

So what you are saying just isn't true.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Here's the bigger question...

 

Granted Ted was integral. However, could any very good fnancial man have done it as well? IE. was all that was needed is a sound business guy whose last name didn't end in McCaskey?

Probably, but that is easier said than done. He was the guy who was able to take that role and get the McCaskey boys a bit farther from the day to day in the organization.

 

I would love for the Bears to hire a person in charge of football operations if they needed to, but right now I look at it as Angelo is the football operations leader (and GM) with Lovie the coach and Phillips in charge of all the other organizational crapola.

 

So if the Bears fail another season, Angelo will go and the team will bring in a new guy to run the football side of things (potentially they will hire a VP of Football, a GM, and a coach).

[madlithuanian]

I actually think you need to give the grand old lady, Virginia, more credit than Ted. She ousted her own son, and placed Ted in chrage. But it does appear that Mikey Boy is starting to get a little more press. Could just be timing though. But I fear potential grooming of him... Whereas it's possible a different McCaskey brother could be a better solutio a la Wirtz.

 

 

 

Probably, but that is easier said than done. He was the guy who was able to take that role and get the McCaskey boys a bit farther from the day to day in the organization.

 

I would love for the Bears to hire a person in charge of football operations if they needed to, but right now I look at it as Angelo is the football operations leader (and GM) with Lovie the coach and Phillips in charge of all the other organizational crapola.

 

So if the Bears fail another season, Angelo will go and the team will bring in a new guy to run the football side of things (potentially they will hire a VP of Football, a GM, and a coach).

 

[Pixote]

I want them gone!

 

The grass is greener! Well, at least the turf is better!

 

Yep, for every Virginia M there is always an Al Davis....

 

Yep, for every Jerry Angelo there is always a Matt Millen....

 

etc... etc... etc...

[nfoligno]

I actually do give Virginia credit. Here is a team/company that has been around a VERY long time, and has always been run (president) by a family member. Say what you want about the reasons, but I think more credit is deserved than realized when she put a non-family member in charge. Honestly, I just do not think many fans realize how big of a decision this was.

 

As for Ted and the stadium, yes, he absolutely does get credit. Could anyone w/o the last name McCaskey have gotten the deal done. Maybe. But in the business world, just because someone else "might" have been able to get a deal done does not meant you do not give credit to the one that did. Further, the stadium deal we did eventually get done was far better than expected (for the bears). Leading up to that point, I do not recall any who expected us to walk about w/ concession sale profits and some other things we got. So he deserved big props for that.

 

Criticize him for the hiring of Angelo. No argument. Criticize him for not stepping in sooner and putting on more pressure. Fine. But in evaluating Teddy, I don't think you can take away from the positives just to make a case against him. Trust me. Hiring Angelo is enough of a negative that you don't have the cheat the positives.

 

 

 

I actually think you need to give the grand old lady, Virginia, more credit than Ted. She ousted her own son, and placed Ted in chrage. But it does appear that Mikey Boy is starting to get a little more press. Could just be timing though. But I fear potential grooming of him... Whereas it's possible a different McCaskey brother could be a better solutio a la Wirtz.

 

[Uncle Buck]

What makes you think that? Everything every talked about the stadium gave full credit to Phillips and said he was the key player that got things done.

 

So what you are saying just isn't true.

 

 

All I can tell you is what I've been told by friends who work for the city. Besides it is well known that Daley can't stomach Mike McCaskey and it has been bounced around for years that the fact that Ted was an "outsider" helped get the deal done. I don't doubt Ted's ability did help get the deal done but it is not like his participation was all of the heavy lifting nor the deal sealer. So believe what you wish, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.