Moon on Chud

[Connorbear]

http://www.csnchicago.com/pages/blog_moon

 

Peace

[BearFan2000]

some interesting points

 

if he were to take a job as OC with hopes to become HC and the Bears don't turn it around there's a chance that he along with Lovie would be swept out, if a turnaround happens and Lovie stays he would have to look else where for HC opportunities. Now that to me means the Bears would make no promises that he would be retained if the Bears have another bad season. Which to me doesn't make sense he's very good at what he does why not make it clear that even if there is a house cleaning that he could be one of the few survivors along with toub.

 

If he has any interest in the Bears HC job he should stay put and wait for the inevitable to happen and then step in. Thought the comment about Chico was interesting, the thought hadn't really crossed my mind. But he is a guy who's looking for a HC spot, has proved his medal as DC, now again he isn't a guy who is an established HC or has any experience but neither would Chud. I still like the thought of Cower but I don't think there's enough Kool-aid left in the city of Chicago to make me believe that will happen. Now I didn't think we'd actually trade for Cutler either.

 

To go along with his point about being thrown out with the garbage or stuck if Lovie is retained, that same thing likely hangs over anyone that interviews. Anyone who is looking at that spot as a stepping stone with HC aspirations in the near future may see it as a lose lose situation. That I think will play at least a slight role in the search. and why I feel we will settle for the first guy on our list that actually shows real interest or if we get desperate enough elevate Tice to OC. I'd like to be wrong but I just don't see us getting a top or even level two tier OC. I have a feeling we'll do what the bears have done for the last couple decades and settle for anyone with a pulse and some connection to Lovie.

[nfoligno]

some interesting points

 

if he were to take a job as OC with hopes to become HC and the Bears don't turn it around there's a chance that he along with Lovie would be swept out, if a turnaround happens and Lovie stays he would have to look else where for HC opportunities. Now that to me means the Bears would make no promises that he would be retained if the Bears have another bad season. Which to me doesn't make sense he's very good at what he does why not make it clear that even if there is a house cleaning that he could be one of the few survivors along with toub.

 

If he has any interest in the Bears HC job he should stay put and wait for the inevitable to happen and then step in. Thought the comment about Chico was interesting, the thought hadn't really crossed my mind. But he is a guy who's looking for a HC spot, has proved his medal as DC, now again he isn't a guy who is an established HC or has any experience but neither would Chud. I still like the thought of Cower but I don't think there's enough Kool-aid left in the city of Chicago to make me believe that will happen. Now I didn't think we'd actually trade for Cutler either.

 

To go along with his point about being thrown out with the garbage or stuck if Lovie is retained, that same thing likely hangs over anyone that interviews. Anyone who is looking at that spot as a stepping stone with HC aspirations in the near future may see it as a lose lose situation. That I think will play at least a slight role in the search. and why I feel we will settle for the first guy on our list that actually shows real interest or if we get desperate enough elevate Tice to OC. I'd like to be wrong but I just don't see us getting a top or even level two tier OC. I have a feeling we'll do what the bears have done for the last couple decades and settle for anyone with a pulse and some connection to Lovie.

 

There is the problem righ there. The situation in Chicago is such that anyone w/ (a) stable job or ( better options is going to pass. Even if we are offering someone a promotion, it may not be enough if that person would expect to be unemployed in one year. Basically, we are looking at (a) unemployed coaches who have not attracted a ton of interest from other teams, ( assistants who have tried and failed many times to get that promotion or © assistants currently in a bad environment.

[madlithuanian]

Good analysis...

 

some interesting points

 

if he were to take a job as OC with hopes to become HC and the Bears don't turn it around there's a chance that he along with Lovie would be swept out, if a turnaround happens and Lovie stays he would have to look else where for HC opportunities. Now that to me means the Bears would make no promises that he would be retained if the Bears have another bad season. Which to me doesn't make sense he's very good at what he does why not make it clear that even if there is a house cleaning that he could be one of the few survivors along with toub.

 

If he has any interest in the Bears HC job he should stay put and wait for the inevitable to happen and then step in. Thought the comment about Chico was interesting, the thought hadn't really crossed my mind. But he is a guy who's looking for a HC spot, has proved his medal as DC, now again he isn't a guy who is an established HC or has any experience but neither would Chud. I still like the thought of Cower but I don't think there's enough Kool-aid left in the city of Chicago to make me believe that will happen. Now I didn't think we'd actually trade for Cutler either.

 

To go along with his point about being thrown out with the garbage or stuck if Lovie is retained, that same thing likely hangs over anyone that interviews. Anyone who is looking at that spot as a stepping stone with HC aspirations in the near future may see it as a lose lose situation. That I think will play at least a slight role in the search. and why I feel we will settle for the first guy on our list that actually shows real interest or if we get desperate enough elevate Tice to OC. I'd like to be wrong but I just don't see us getting a top or even level two tier OC. I have a feeling we'll do what the bears have done for the last couple decades and settle for anyone with a pulse and some connection to Lovie.

 

[BigDaddy]

Well, I think it's pretty obvious that the Bears again, closed their eyes to the obvious and wished and hoped that coaches would want to come here. In a perfect world, coaches would want to come here to coach. Why? Because we are one of the charter franchises of this league, our market allows much more endorsement and advertising opportunities than most and the history that exists here. Unfortunately, we are NOT in a perfect world. Our owners are the protoype for half-assed efforts, our HC is a dead man walking, the rest of the staff aside from our ST coach isn't very good. Also, by keeping Drake and Spencer and hiring Tice, we have pretty much told any OC candidate who we might want to speak with that they will NEVER run their own show here and by Smith being so adamant about not changing schemes, we have told any DC candidate the same thing.

 

Funny, we all knew this was going to happen. Why didn't the Bears? That's another reason people don't want to come here. If there is a choice, we can always count on the Bears to make the wrong one. Guess well have to pray this turd shrinks so we can flush it but I fear that might take longer than many want to think about.

[madlithuanian]

Very well put...

 

Well, I think it's pretty obvious that the Bears again, closed their eyes to the obvious and wished and hoped that coaches would want to come here. In a perfect world, coaches would want to come here to coach. Why? Because we are one of the charter franchises of this league, our market allows much more endorsement and advertising opportunities than most and the history that exists here. Unfortunately, we are NOT in a perfect world. Our owners are the protoype for half-assed efforts, our HC is a dead man walking, the rest of the staff aside from our ST coach isn't very good. Also, by keeping Drake and Spencer and hiring Tice, we have pretty much told any OC candidate who we might want to speak with that they will NEVER run their own show here and by Smith being so adamant about not changing schemes, we have told any DC candidate the same thing.

 

Funny, we all knew this was going to happen. Why didn't the Bears? That's another reason people don't want to come here. If there is a choice, we can always count on the Bears to make the wrong one. Guess well have to pray this turd shrinks so we can flush it but I fear that might take longer than many want to think about.

 

[AZ54]

The logic about Chud wanting a HC position doesn't make sense. The reality is if he comes here and turns around the Bears offense in one season he's on everyone's list around the league just like that. Not saying he'd be at the top of the list but he'd have everyone's attention and then if Lovie was still around for another year (likely because of Chud's offense) then in his second year he'd again be on the HC candidate lists. It can happen fast look at Todd Haley who was our WR coach not too long ago and Arizona went to the Superbowl (a small miracle) and just like that he's a head coach.

[Mongo3451]

The logic about Chud wanting a HC position doesn't make sense. The reality is if he comes here and turns around the Bears offense in one season he's on everyone's list around the league just like that. Not saying he'd be at the top of the list but he'd have everyone's attention and then if Lovie was still around for another year (likely because of Chud's offense) then in his second year he'd again be on the HC candidate lists. It can happen fast look at Todd Haley who was our WR coach not too long ago and Arizona went to the Superbowl (a small miracle) and just like that he's a head coach.

Disagree. There are growing pains with a new OC and system. Although I think the O will better, I doubt it will be greatly better. Here's to hoping I'm wrong.

[madlithuanian]

But if he tanks here his stock is hurt severely.

 

The logic about Chud wanting a HC position doesn't make sense. The reality is if he comes here and turns around the Bears offense in one season he's on everyone's list around the league just like that. Not saying he'd be at the top of the list but he'd have everyone's attention and then if Lovie was still around for another year (likely because of Chud's offense) then in his second year he'd again be on the HC candidate lists. It can happen fast look at Todd Haley who was our WR coach not too long ago and Arizona went to the Superbowl (a small miracle) and just like that he's a head coach.

 

[nfoligno]

Agreed. In SD, while his rep is solid, he is a position coach under an offensive minded HC. As much as he may benefit the team, I think there will be questions how much of the success is him. On the other hand, if he were to join Chicago, there would be no question who was in control of the offense.

 

I believe Mongo said taking over a unit takes time. While that may be true, at the same time, he would be entering a pretty good situation w/ Cutler, and solid young talent at RB, WR and TE. Taking over any team/unit is a risk, but at least in Chicago he has pieces to work with.

 

 

 

The logic about Chud wanting a HC position doesn't make sense. The reality is if he comes here and turns around the Bears offense in one season he's on everyone's list around the league just like that. Not saying he'd be at the top of the list but he'd have everyone's attention and then if Lovie was still around for another year (likely because of Chud's offense) then in his second year he'd again be on the HC candidate lists. It can happen fast look at Todd Haley who was our WR coach not too long ago and Arizona went to the Superbowl (a small miracle) and just like that he's a head coach.

 

[AZ54]

But if he tanks here his stock is hurt severely.

 

If a guy doesn't have enough confidence in himself and his system that he has to worry about failing as an OC then I don't want him. Good quality people who are motivated to move up realize you don't get many opportunities and you are much better off getting the experience at the next level sooner rather than later. I realize we aren't offering an ideal situation but regardless walking away from opportunities tells other teams something about Chud too!

 

 

[madlithuanian]

Again, it's hard to soar like an eagle when you work for a bunch of turkeys.

 

It's like bashing a guy for staying in college instead of going pro. Maybe he wants to hone his skill sets more?

 

I've received many job offers in my time, and turned down more than I've accepted. Sometimes you don't really care for the company or people you'd directly work for... Money and title aren't everything.

 

If a guy doesn't have enough confidence in himself and his system that he has to worry about failing as an OC then I don't want him. Good quality people who are motivated to move up realize you don't get many opportunities and you are much better off getting the experience at the next level sooner rather than later. I realize we aren't offering an ideal situation but regardless walking away from opportunities tells other teams something about Chud too!

 

[nfoligno]

Oh, I disagree with that.

 

As others have mentioned, when a new coach comes in, there are usually some learning curves, and that unit doesn't always immediately take off. If there is the belief that he would have only one year to produce high level results, or be fired along w/ the rest, that is not a situation most would jump at.

 

I know sometimes we are loath to consider the NFL in common man ways, but lets try it. You are well respected in your job, and on the rise. You work for a big company, and you have a VERY secure position. There is another division of the company which is on the verge of a total restructuring, and they want to bring you in. The job would be a promotion, but at the same time, it is also a big risk as there is a high expectation of a shake up. On the other hand, if you stick w/ your good and secure job, more opportunities are very likely. Passing up this opportunity this year may prove huge down the road as other opportunities are likely to come up.

 

Sometimes you have to think long term. In the long run, staying w/ a solid team like SD, which is not likely to see a huge dip in their offense, could well pay off w/ further opportunities, and frankly, better opportunities on staff's not expected to see shakeups. On the other hand, you could take the job, and be unemployed in a year.

 

I really want Chud, but frankly, I was surprised he even agreed to interview with us.

 

If a guy doesn't have enough confidence in himself and his system that he has to worry about failing as an OC then I don't want him. Good quality people who are motivated to move up realize you don't get many opportunities and you are much better off getting the experience at the next level sooner rather than later. I realize we aren't offering an ideal situation but regardless walking away from opportunities tells other teams something about Chud too!

 

[AZ54]

Oh, I disagree with that.

 

As others have mentioned, when a new coach comes in, there are usually some learning curves, and that unit doesn't always immediately take off. If there is the belief that he would have only one year to produce high level results, or be fired along w/ the rest, that is not a situation most would jump at.

 

I know sometimes we are loath to consider the NFL in common man ways, but lets try it. You are well respected in your job, and on the rise. You work for a big company, and you have a VERY secure position. There is another division of the company which is on the verge of a total restructuring, and they want to bring you in. The job would be a promotion, but at the same time, it is also a big risk as there is a high expectation of a shake up. On the other hand, if you stick w/ your good and secure job, more opportunities are very likely. Passing up this opportunity this year may prove huge down the road as other opportunities are likely to come up.

 

Sometimes you have to think long term. In the long run, staying w/ a solid team like SD, which is not likely to see a huge dip in their offense, could well pay off w/ further opportunities, and frankly, better opportunities on staff's not expected to see shakeups. On the other hand, you could take the job, and be unemployed in a year.

 

I really want Chud, but frankly, I was surprised he even agreed to interview with us.

 

I guess I don't fit your mold because I took one of those challenges at work but that's off topic.

 

I fully understand the circumstances any new OC for us faces with job security but I also know these guys will have at least a two year guaranteed contract so it's not like they won't be able to put food on the table. Not to mention what should be a huge pay raise for taking on an bigger role. I would think in those two years Chud would make at least double his current salary so if he leaves after one year he'd get the equivalent of 4 years of pay. Then he can take 3 years off to spend time with his family.

 

Let's assume he's gone after one year, I'd think the guy would have enough confidence in his body of work to feel he's capable of finding another job. It's not like people wouldn't understand his situation with the Bears.

 

I understand your disagreement but I'll stand by my position that any new OC we hire should have enough confidence in himself to feel like he can be successful next year.

 

We ranked 23rd in total yards, 17th in passing yards, and 29th in rushing yards, but 19th in scoring. The rushing game is clearly in need of repair but otherwise we're in the middle of the mix and a lot of our skill position players are young and improving and we have a very talented QB which is by far the toughest piece of the puzzle. I don't view this as a total rebuild. Therefore, le'ts move on from the success/failure discussion because I feel guys knew the circumstances before they got on the plane (i.e. 2yr contract and Lovie's on a short leash) so that leads me to believe there's something else going on here.

 

Maybe it's our timeline and they don't want to wait that long. Let's face it if they leave Cincy or San Diego those teams would have to replace them. It's likely the team asked them to make a decision one way or the other within a couple weeks. If Lovie is waiting for some Superbowl coaches then perhaps you are right in that they chose to just stay in their comfort zone with the current team. Or is the problem today's report that we aren't going to spend much on offense in FA (not that we could anyway). Or is the problem that these guys don't think they'll win the job from whoever is at the end of Lovie's list?

 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

I guess I don't fit your mold because I took one of those challenges at work but that's off topic.

 

I fully understand the circumstances any new OC for us faces with job security but I also know these guys will have at least a two year guaranteed contract so it's not like they won't be able to put food on the table. Not to mention what should be a huge pay raise for taking on an bigger role. I would think in those two years Chud would make at least double his current salary so if he leaves after one year he'd get the equivalent of 4 years of pay. Then he can take 3 years off to spend time with his family.

 

Let's assume he's gone after one year, I'd think the guy would have enough confidence in his body of work to feel he's capable of finding another job. It's not like people wouldn't understand his situation with the Bears.

 

I understand your disagreement but I'll stand by my position that any new OC we hire should have enough confidence in himself to feel like he can be successful next year.

 

We ranked 23rd in total yards, 17th in passing yards, and 29th in rushing yards, but 19th in scoring. The rushing game is clearly in need of repair but otherwise we're in the middle of the mix and a lot of our skill position players are young and improving and we have a very talented QB which is by far the toughest piece of the puzzle. I don't view this as a total rebuild. Therefore, le'ts move on from the success/failure discussion because I feel guys knew the circumstances before they got on the plane (i.e. 2yr contract and Lovie's on a short leash) so that leads me to believe there's something else going on here.

 

Maybe it's our timeline and they don't want to wait that long. Let's face it if they leave Cincy or San Diego those teams would have to replace them. It's likely the team asked them to make a decision one way or the other within a couple weeks. If Lovie is waiting for some Superbowl coaches then perhaps you are right in that they chose to just stay in their comfort zone with the current team. Or is the problem today's report that we aren't going to spend much on offense in FA (not that we could anyway). Or is the problem that these guys don't think they'll win the job from whoever is at the end of Lovie's list?

I agree with your assessment on confidence of a coordinator. Guys don't get interviewed in the NFL unless they are a known achiever. The last thing I want as a leader is someone who is not confident enough in himself or his system to create second guessing. Most players will sniff that out the first day and see it as a sign of weakness. To get players to buy into a system, they need to display blind trust with the system, then each other. This is not what you get in the corporate or factory place of employment.

 

Plus, the NFL is a pretty intertwined community. I'm pretty sure if whoever we hire fails, it will not be their last opportunity, due to them not coming into an ideal situation. Now, if a guy came in and screwed up the Colts or Saints offense, he may be doomed. Not much to screw up here.

[nfoligno]

A) While I understand your side of the argument, I would suggest that our recent efforts show security has played a factor. In fact, both Bates and Fewell has each specifically mentioned security as an issue in their decision.

 

I also think our time line is absolutely an issue at play here. Zampese had a very specific window set by the team or one week. We were not looking to make a quick decision, so the team closed the door. Similar, I think time was the biggest key factor in our not getting Hue Jackson was time. Oakland had a firm offer on the table. We had only set up an interview w/ no time table on when we would make a decision. Can't blame a guy w/ going for the firm offer.

 

I think we entered the process already in a less than great situation due to the unstable environment, but the process we have taken has even further crippled our search.

 

I guess I don't fit your mold because I took one of those challenges at work but that's off topic.

 

I fully understand the circumstances any new OC for us faces with job security but I also know these guys will have at least a two year guaranteed contract so it's not like they won't be able to put food on the table. Not to mention what should be a huge pay raise for taking on an bigger role. I would think in those two years Chud would make at least double his current salary so if he leaves after one year he'd get the equivalent of 4 years of pay. Then he can take 3 years off to spend time with his family.

 

Let's assume he's gone after one year, I'd think the guy would have enough confidence in his body of work to feel he's capable of finding another job. It's not like people wouldn't understand his situation with the Bears.

 

I understand your disagreement but I'll stand by my position that any new OC we hire should have enough confidence in himself to feel like he can be successful next year.

 

We ranked 23rd in total yards, 17th in passing yards, and 29th in rushing yards, but 19th in scoring. The rushing game is clearly in need of repair but otherwise we're in the middle of the mix and a lot of our skill position players are young and improving and we have a very talented QB which is by far the toughest piece of the puzzle. I don't view this as a total rebuild. Therefore, le'ts move on from the success/failure discussion because I feel guys knew the circumstances before they got on the plane (i.e. 2yr contract and Lovie's on a short leash) so that leads me to believe there's something else going on here.

 

Maybe it's our timeline and they don't want to wait that long. Let's face it if they leave Cincy or San Diego those teams would have to replace them. It's likely the team asked them to make a decision one way or the other within a couple weeks. If Lovie is waiting for some Superbowl coaches then perhaps you are right in that they chose to just stay in their comfort zone with the current team. Or is the problem today's report that we aren't going to spend much on offense in FA (not that we could anyway). Or is the problem that these guys don't think they'll win the job from whoever is at the end of Lovie's list?