Martz interviewing today

[bowlingtwig]

02 - 04 was a rough time of transition for the Rams, from Kurt Warner to Marc Bulger. It also happened to coincide with the dwindling of Marshall Faulk's competency.

 

I can't say why his teams didn't punch it into the endzone more often, but I'm sure if you look at the passing TDs and the rushing TDs for Martz's teams combined, I'm willing to bet that they are in the top of the league.

1 thing that I think we have to look at is this. When was the last time Martz had a good QB with scrambling abilities. Oh yeah thats right never. If Martz realizes this it could make the offense real dangerous, especially if we can get a good QB coach in here to help tutor Cutler, specifically a QB coach who has played the position before in the NFL.

[nfoligno]

First we are complaining we are scrapping the bottom of the barrel interviewing OCs that have limited experience or credentials then we are complaining about interviewing an OC that certainly has a good resume just because, I assume, he has ties to Lovie. Does having an association with Lovie automatically disqualify you for a position with the Bears?

 

I don't think that is remotely the case here. Fewell had the Lovie tie, and yet most seemed to be on board w/ him. I have read many negative posts on Martz, and made a few myself, and his ties to Lovie are rarely mentioned. The concern is how his system fits w/ our personnel, and whether he could actually do more damage (long term) to our players than if we just played it safe.

 

If he tries to run the greatest show on earth here he will fail. We all know that. However, I would like to think he is smart enough to adapt his offense to what talent he has around him. I would like to think that if the Bears brought in Tice for the OL it means we still want to play smash mouth football on offense.

 

You say you would like to think he is smart enough.... but I think history may show otherwise. Since leaving Stl, he has continued to try to run the same offense. In Det, for example, he did help Kitna throw for a lot of yards, but also a ton of picks and ignored the run game in the process. In SF, probably their most talent weapon was the TE, and he was an afterthought in Martz system.

 

Martz has a system, and in two offenses since leaving Stl, he has seemed to continue trying to force that system into place, regardless of the talent he had. As for the Tice aspect, that is a concern too. In both Det and SF, he fought w/ the HC who wanted to run the ball more, and he all but told Marinelli and Singletary to kiss his arce.

 

I do not know if we will hire this guy or not. I would like to wait until after the SB and try and interview some candidates from those two teams. However, if we wait, then the Bears (according to many) are inept because they have taken too long.

 

One. Who in the SB do you like. I have heard about the TE coach for NO and the WR coach for Indy, and neither impress me much.

 

Two. Blame our own people, who had a press conference talking about how coaches would line up for a job w/ the Bears, only to see candidate after candidate turn us down.

 

Guess there is not a damn thing the Bears management can do at this point to satisfy anyone, short of a total house cleaning, which will not happen, so we might as well stop thinking about that until we see what happens in the 2010 season.

 

Really? Go back and read the thread about Chud. Seems like if we had been able to hire him, many fans would have been pretty happy, yet we were not impressed with him. I remember some liking Zampese too, but we were too slow and the window closed. Point here is, there have been names who would have made fans happy, so I disagree w/ your statement. But the team dragged their feet, and now look at the recent talks. Martz is a guy who said he wanted the job all along. If we wanted him, it would have been day quickly, but I think it very reasonable to argue he was down on our list, and yet we are now interviewing him. And after little talk about DC, where are we? Trying to coax Marinelli to accept the position he previously said he didn't want.

 

Why exactly should we be satisified by this?

[nfoligno]

Jason,

 

You love to throw out the big passing yardage totals, but seriously, so what. Unless we are talking FF, and looking at picking up some Bears, so what.

 

Is Cutler putting up 4,000 yards really that important? Those teams also saw more interceptions than passing tds. They ignored the run game. And in the end, though the passing yards were high, the rushing yards were low, and that means the overall offense was not special.

 

His offenses look good only if you look at them in a very narrow way (passing yardage). When you look at the whole, those offenses really prove to be lacking.

 

Good points. What I see is this:

1999 OC with Rams

2000-2005 HC with Rams

2006 OC with Lions (Kitna over 4000 yds passing)

2007 OC with Lions (Kitna over 4000 yds passing)

2008 OC with 49ers (two bum QBs almost get 4000 yds)

 

Is Martz a risk? Yes.

Does he present the probability that Cutler will be sacked a lot? Yes.

 

Is the risk of Martz less than the other possibilities? Yes.

Is the reward of a Martz offense greater than other possibilities? Oh, hell yes.

 

[clnr]

Jason:

99 Rams: 1st in Points

00 Rams: 1st in Points

01 Rams: 1st in points

02 Rams: 23rd in points

03 Rams: 2ndt in points

04 Rams: 19st in points

05 Rams: 11th in points

06 Lions: 21st in points

07 Lions: 16th in points

08 49ers: 22nd in points.

 

So he did great in St Louis. Without Pace, Faulk, Warner, Bruce and Holt he hasn't done that much. So was his system a fit for the talent he had with the Rams or was he able to develop the players to greatness?

[AZ54]

I'll take Martz over these QB coaches we're checking out, or over any of these college OCs we're supposed to be considering. He's pass first but I'll live with it for next year. I figure it's a total boom or bust and quite honestly that's the way I prefer it for next year. What's the point of bringing in someone, who might be good but will need some time to develop as a play caller (i.e. a year or so) thus we end up again a middle of the road offense. If Martz busts, or we're just average again, as most predict then he takes Lovie out of town with him and that doesn't bother me at all. OTOH if Martz and Cutler strike gold then we win big time and that won't bother me one bit.

[bowlingtwig]

I'll take Martz over these QB coaches we're checking out, or over any of these college OCs we're supposed to be considering. He's pass first but I'll live with it for next year. I figure it's a total boom or bust and quite honestly that's the way I prefer it for next year. What's the point of bringing in someone, who might be good but will need some time to develop as a play caller (i.e. a year or so) thus we end up again a middle of the road offense. If Martz busts, or we're just average again, as most predict then he takes Lovie out of town with him and that doesn't bother me at all. OTOH if Martz and Cutler strike gold then we win big time and that won't bother me one bit.

I don't know if Martz is the best fit for us or anything like that but Zach Zaidman puts it perfectly. Name me another guy that is just as qualified that you do like??? There simply isn't much more out there. And it was rumored a while ago that Martz was a fall back option.

[bradjock]

I don't know if Martz is the best fit for us or anything like that but Zach Zaidman puts it perfectly. Name me another guy that is just as qualified that you do like??? There simply isn't much more out there. And it was rumored a while ago that Martz was a fall back option.

 

Agreed. It's concerning that it's between him and the Vikings QB coach. What the hell has the Vikings guy accomplished?

 

It's interesting that Martz brings out such strong opinions in people. Most either love him or hate him.

 

I like the guy because he is a proven OC who has had success. For me it just comes down to whether or not he'll tone down the offense.

 

Either way, on paper he's far and away the best candidate.

[defiantgiant]

Jason:

99 Rams: 1st in Points

00 Rams: 1st in Points

01 Rams: 1st in points

02 Rams: 23rd in points

03 Rams: 2ndt in points

04 Rams: 19st in points

05 Rams: 11th in points

06 Lions: 21st in points

07 Lions: 16th in points

08 49ers: 22nd in points.

 

So he did great in St Louis. Without Pace, Faulk, Warner, Bruce and Holt he hasn't done that much. So was his system a fit for the talent he had with the Rams or was he able to develop the players to greatness?

You nailed it: his system has never worked without once-in-a-lifetime talent. Martz's offenses put up gaudy passing yardage numbers, but outside of the years where he had multiple Hall-of-Fame-level players on offense, they don't actually score that often. A lot of people have talked about how Martz made Kitna a 4000-yard passer, but Kitna averaged fewer than 20 TDs a season under Martz. And his interceptions always outnumbered his touchdowns.

 

And that's not even addressing the issue of balance on offense. Kitna had pretty underwhelming yards-per-attempt, which makes it obvious that his high yardage was due to a huge number of pass attempts. Martz called 1,300 passes in two seasons with Detroit, compared to 727 runs. In 2006 and 2007, respectively, Martz's Lions ranked #2 and #4 in the NFL in pass attempts and #32 and #30 in rushing attempts. That's insane, and it honestly could set Cutler back: everywhere Martz has gone, his quarterbacks have gotten destroyed. Kitna got sacked nearly 60 times a season under Martz. The 49ers led the league in sacks allowed (with 55) under Martz, in his one year there.

 

Getting hit that much absolutely can affect a good quarterback's performance for the rest of his career. If we're going to bring in an offensive coordinator for a one-year deal, I'd rather it not be a guy who might turn our franchise QB into David Carr. Somebody here brought up Cutler's mobility, and he's definitely more mobile than Warner/Bulger/Kitna, but Martz's system isn't designed to be friendly to mobile quarterbacks. He makes use of deep 7-step drops, then asks the QB to stand in the pocket, make the throw downfield, and then take the hit, frequently from an unblocked rusher. A West Coast offense could protect Cutler with shorter drops, more rollouts, and quick underneath passing routes: Martz's offense doesn't do any of that...a lot of his plays don't even have a checkdown receiver.

[nfoligno]

You nailed it: his system has never worked without once-in-a-lifetime talent.

 

Actually then, he is a perfect fit as we have a HC who has tried to re-create a defense that only truly worked when it had the one-in-a-lifetime assortment of talent in TB.

[defiantgiant]

You nailed it: his system has never worked without once-in-a-lifetime talent.

 

Actually then, he is a perfect fit as we have a HC who has tried to re-create a defense that only truly worked when it had the one-in-a-lifetime assortment of talent in TB.

You know, I've thought about that, too. If Martz tries to run the offense the same exact way he did in St. Louis and Lovie tries to run Tampa's defense, all they'd need is Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Derrick Brooks, Booger McFarland, John Lynch, Ronde Barber, Orlando Pace, Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and Marshall Faulk all in their respective primes. It shouldn't be too hard to go out and get 10 or 11 All-Pro players, right?

[bowlingtwig]

You know, I've thought about that, too. If Martz tries to run the offense the same exact way he did in St. Louis and Lovie tries to run Tampa's defense, all they'd need is Warren Sapp, Simeon Rice, Derrick Brooks, Booger McFarland, John Lynch, Ronde Barber, Orlando Pace, Kurt Warner, Isaac Bruce, Torry Holt, and Marshall Faulk all in their respective primes. It shouldn't be too hard to go out and get 10 or 11 All-Pro players, right?

I actually believe that Jay Cutler would be a great fit for a Martz style offense, however hit style offense is not a great fit for the personel that we have currently. I like our WR's and believe they could be dangerous in that offense but the biggest problem that I have is the oline.

[madlithuanian]

Yes! He seems to be able to bounce back from sacks well!

 

I actually believe that Jay Cutler would be a great fit for a Martz style offense, however hit style offense is not a great fit for the personel that we have currently. I like our WR's and believe they could be dangerous in that offense but the biggest problem that I have is the oline.

 

[nfoligno]

Why do you think Cutler would be a great fit. Just asking. In Stl, they seemed to work more w/ shorter routes where the WR would be hit in stride and then gain a ton of yardage. It seemed more often like a quick strike offense. Is that getting the most out of his arm strength. Also, Martz has never utilized a mobile QB. Some will argue he never had one, but my question is, would he try to move the pocket? This has never been part of his offense, and yet is considered one of Cutler's strengths also. Can Cutler run Martz offense. I am sure he could. But I am not so sure he is a perfect fit, nor am I sure Martz' offense would best utilize his strengths.

 

I also question whether that offense is a great fit for our WRs. Two things our WRs have never proven great at are (a) getting quick separation and ( running precise routes. These are two essential aspects in Martz system.

 

OL - As you said, his system really relies on a solid OL. In Det, he did not have a good OL, and he nearly got the QB killed. Kitna, I think, led the league in sacks, and also had a ton of interceptions, much of which you have to believe was due to the pressure he faced.

 

RB - The other concern is the run game. In Det, while Kitza was putting up big numbers, Det never even tried to run the ball. They had a very lopsided pass to run ratio, and I think passes for every two times. That puts even more pressure on the OL, and further, becomes very difficult to rely on later in the season as the weather gets bad, which Martz has not really had to deal w/ as he had two indoor teams and another warm weather team.

 

I actually believe that Jay Cutler would be a great fit for a Martz style offense, however hit style offense is not a great fit for the personel that we have currently. I like our WR's and believe they could be dangerous in that offense but the biggest problem that I have is the oline.

 

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

Martz is the OC. Just hired. Lovie got his man.

[DaBearSox]

So...if we don't make the playoffs next year (not so optimistic) we'll have this O learn 3 different schemes in 3 years...Martz is pretty intense....I think Hesters head is going to explode.

[madlithuanian]

4 former head coahes on one staff...

 

 

 

Martz is the OC. Just hired. Lovie got his man.

 

[bowlingtwig]

Why do you think Cutler would be a great fit. Just asking. In Stl, they seemed to work more w/ shorter routes where the WR would be hit in stride and then gain a ton of yardage. It seemed more often like a quick strike offense. Is that getting the most out of his arm strength. Also, Martz has never utilized a mobile QB. Some will argue he never had one, but my question is, would he try to move the pocket? This has never been part of his offense, and yet is considered one of Cutler's strengths also. Can Cutler run Martz offense. I am sure he could. But I am not so sure he is a perfect fit, nor am I sure Martz' offense would best utilize his strengths.

 

I also question whether that offense is a great fit for our WRs. Two things our WRs have never proven great at are (a) getting quick separation and ( running precise routes. These are two essential aspects in Martz system.

 

OL - As you said, his system really relies on a solid OL. In Det, he did not have a good OL, and he nearly got the QB killed. Kitna, I think, led the league in sacks, and also had a ton of interceptions, much of which you have to believe was due to the pressure he faced.

 

RB - The other concern is the run game. In Det, while Kitza was putting up big numbers, Det never even tried to run the ball. They had a very lopsided pass to run ratio, and I think passes for every two times. That puts even more pressure on the OL, and further, becomes very difficult to rely on later in the season as the weather gets bad, which Martz has not really had to deal w/ as he had two indoor teams and another warm weather team.

I saw he is a great fit because Martz likes an accurate and strong armed QB. Cutler is accurate, maybe not as much as Warner and he is by no question very much a strong armed QB. In StL you saw some quick strikes but he played alot of 5 and 7 step drop backs for the QB. If the offense was really a quick strike you would see more 3 steps insted of 5 and 7 step drops. If you read my statement correctly I said that I like our WR's and I think they CAN be a good fit. I very much question weather or not this offense will work because of mainly the Oline. However Martz tends to throw an awful lot and forget about the RB and he has never really utilized the TE. Our 2 greatest weapons is RB and TE. IF and I know its a really big IF. But If Martz can learn from his faults and start to utilize the RB, especially in the passing game and utilize the TE, this offense could be dangerous.

 

[nfoligno]

Got it. I guess my bigger concern also is w/ the OL over the QB or WR fits.

 

When we want to go w/ quick strike, I question whether our WRs have developed the release or route running. But the problem is, on the 5 and 7 dorps, I see Cutler getting killed.

 

I am very concerned about the role of the TE. Is it only coincidence that once Martz left, Vernon Davis became an absolute stud? The TE just does not seem to be part of his scheme. Maybe he will try and force it to be a part, but I fear Olsen simply will not develop w/ Martz, which is truly unfortunate as he may be our most skilled ball catcher.

 

I know you have said, and I have read others who said, maybe Martz will learn from past mistakes, but Martz just doesn't strike me as the type.

 

Many will be on board w/ this hiring simply because fans are so tired of the same ol same ol. To me, this is like when we hired Crowton. Everyone was so excited about an attack style offense, but that sure didn't work out. Sure, we can say we have a much better QB, but the OL sucks, and I just fear such a system could damage as much or more than it could help. I also fear such a system will make our OL look even worse. When you have a pass happy offense, defenses can tee off on the QB w/ little fear from a run game that is rarely called upon. That just puts more pressure on an OL that isn't very good to begin with.

 

I saw he is a great fit because Martz likes an accurate and strong armed QB. Cutler is accurate, maybe not as much as Warner and he is by no question very much a strong armed QB. In StL you saw some quick strikes but he played alot of 5 and 7 step drop backs for the QB. If the offense was really a quick strike you would see more 3 steps insted of 5 and 7 step drops. If you read my statement correctly I said that I like our WR's and I think they CAN be a good fit. I very much question weather or not this offense will work because of mainly the Oline. However Martz tends to throw an awful lot and forget about the RB and he has never really utilized the TE. Our 2 greatest weapons is RB and TE. IF and I know its a really big IF. But If Martz can learn from his faults and start to utilize the RB, especially in the passing game and utilize the TE, this offense could be dangerous.

 

[ChileBear]

I know you have said, and I have read others who said, maybe Martz will learn from past mistakes, but Martz just doesn't strike me as the type.

 

Many will be on board w/ this hiring simply because fans are so tired of the same ol same ol. To me, this is like when we hired Crowton. Everyone was so excited about an attack style offense, but that sure didn't work out. Sure, we can say we have a much better QB, but the OL sucks, and I just fear such a system could damage as much or more than it could help. I also fear such a system will make our OL look even worse. When you have a pass happy offense, defenses can tee off on the QB w/ little fear from a run game that is rarely called upon. That just puts more pressure on an OL that isn't very good to begin with.

I too am concerned with the OL, way before Martz came on board. But now, the OTs better step up or we are going to be seeing Hanie during the season, and what would Martz do with Hanie as the QB?

 

[azbearsfan]

4 former head coahes on one staff...

 

Might as well get Herm Edwards to make it five

[AZ54]

I am very concerned about the role of the TE. Is it only coincidence that once Martz left, Vernon Davis became an absolute stud? The TE just does not seem to be part of his scheme. Maybe he will try and force it to be a part, but I fear Olsen simply will not develop w/ Martz, which is truly unfortunate as he may be our most skilled ball catcher.

 

Don't understand this at all. Davis sucked even under Singletary until he had his little benching incident. Even then he struggled getting back onto the field but Singletary's message sank in and he has developed into a Pro Bowl TE like everyone expected him to be. If it was just Martz hamstringing Davis' potential why did Singletary have to bench him to get his attention?

 

I understand TEs are not utilized, or haven't been utilized in Martz's offenses over the years and that argument holds more water IMO. I still think Olsen has a place in his scheme because of his versatility and I used to feel the same for Vernon Davis. Desmond Clark is another story. I am very curious to see if Martz tries to adapt the players to his scheme or adapts his scheme to his players. IMO he had the players to make the scheme work in StL but in Detroit he tried to make them fit his scheme and it didn't work. I know we'll still be a pass first team.

 

I think we all know Martz had quite a bit of arrogance in how he went about his work after StL the question is has he learned from that experience in ways that will help him in Chicago? I don't know but I'd rather see him trying to mesh everything together than some QB coach who has never done it.