Smith, Angelo may be at odds over coordinator pick

[Wesson44]

 

Smith, Angelo may be at odds over coordinator pick

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 31, 2010 8:47 AM ET

Mike Martz made his best sales pitch to Jay Cutler in Nashville Saturday.

 

If he can convince the Bears front office, he just might be back in the NFL. Neil Hayes of the Chicago Sun-Times has sources that say Martz is Lovie Smith's top pick.

 

The coach usually chooses his staff, but the process is reportedly "complicated," which may indicate some disagreement between Smith and G.M. Jerry Angelo. Cutler's opinion will also be a factor.

 

The Chicago Tribune, meanwhile, seems to think Martz is in the driver's seat. If the team let him travel to Nashville to meet with Cutler, logic says, he probably has calmed fears about his pass-happy ways.

 

One thing that the two papers agree on is that this process shouldn't take that much longer. It looks like Martz or Vikings quarterbacks' coach Kevin Rogers will get the job. Hayes says Rogers remains a "strong candidate" after an impressive interview.

 

A decision could come as soon as today. And it may tell us who has the most juice in among the Bears hierarchy.

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

"One thing that the two papers agree on is that this process shouldn't take that much longer. It looks like Martz or Vikings quarterbacks' coach Kevin Rogers will get the job. Hayes says Rogers remains a "strong candidate" after an impressive interview."

 

Of the two, if this is truly close to the end of the process, I say go with Martz. I think the key could be that Martz assured the staff that he could work around his "pass happy ways" which we all know has to be the case. Even if Cutler wants to be the first to throw 5,000 yds in a season, affording Forte the opportunity to get better and match (or better) his rookie stats is even more crucial.

[chitownman]

I am still not convinced that this is the right way to go. Martz and Smith are BFFs and that may not bode to well in the long run. Not completely sure why Martz has lost his last two coordinator positions with the Lay Downs and with working the Samurai. I am not convinced on the ViQueens QB coach as well. We need someone strong for sure however, the coach also needs to understand what Chicago wants and needs with some modifications to make it that much better. I just also want this whole damn nightmare to go away and it does not look like it will any time soon.

[bradjock]

I am still not convinced that this is the right way to go. Martz and Smith are BFFs and that may not bode to well in the long run. Not completely sure why Martz has lost his last two coordinator positions with the Lay Downs and with working the Samurai. I am not convinced on the ViQueens QB coach as well. We need someone strong for sure however, the coach also needs to understand what Chicago wants and needs with some modifications to make it that much better. I just also want this whole damn nightmare to go away and it does not look like it will any time soon.

 

In this particular case, I don't think Martz being Lovie's BFF will have an impact. This has been a problem since Lovie's buddies coached the defense and they are basically "yes men" to whatever the hell he wanted.

 

With the offense, Lovie has input, but on game day the OC has had the freedom to do their jobs. Martz is particular is known for being stubborn and having his own way. If Martz is hired, and I think he'll be strongly encouraged to listen to Mike Tice and the running game.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

At least Martz is innovative and you wont see the same nonsense every game like Turner.

 

Whether it works or not is a completely different question, but at least the Bears offense wont be boring. The Bears have limited choices, of the whats left I think Martz has the biggest upside, but also could be a disaster.

[defiantgiant]

I heard it suggested that Martz's desperation to get back into coaching might make him more flexible in terms of adapting his scheme to the Bears' personnel. If he's willing to moderate his scheme to make it more like the other Air Coryell systems out there (like the Chargers, or the Chiefs back in the day) that have a better run-pass mix and don't demand so much of their pass protection, then I think the hire could potentially work out OK, especially if Tice has some input in the run game.

 

If he's going to try to implement the same offense he installed in St. Louis, Detroit and San Francisco, though, Cutler might want to buy some extra life insurance.

[nfoligno]

If Martz is hired, and I think he'll be strongly encouraged to listen to Mike Tice and the running game.

 

If Martz didn't care to listen to his last two head coaches (Singletary and Marinelli) regarding the run game, what makes you think he will listen to his OL coach?

[madlithuanian]

Seems like old times!

 

Jauron/JA part II - The Hunt for Clue

 

 

 

 

 

Smith, Angelo may be at odds over coordinator pick

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 31, 2010 8:47 AM ET

Mike Martz made his best sales pitch to Jay Cutler in Nashville Saturday.

 

If he can convince the Bears front office, he just might be back in the NFL. Neil Hayes of the Chicago Sun-Times has sources that say Martz is Lovie Smith's top pick.

 

The coach usually chooses his staff, but the process is reportedly "complicated," which may indicate some disagreement between Smith and G.M. Jerry Angelo. Cutler's opinion will also be a factor.

 

The Chicago Tribune, meanwhile, seems to think Martz is in the driver's seat. If the team let him travel to Nashville to meet with Cutler, logic says, he probably has calmed fears about his pass-happy ways.

 

One thing that the two papers agree on is that this process shouldn't take that much longer. It looks like Martz or Vikings quarterbacks' coach Kevin Rogers will get the job. Hayes says Rogers remains a "strong candidate" after an impressive interview.

 

A decision could come as soon as today. And it may tell us who has the most juice in among the Bears hierarchy.

 

[madlithuanian]

Exactly...

 

Let the chaos begin!

 

If Martz is hired, and I think he'll be strongly encouraged to listen to Mike Tice and the running game.

 

If Martz didn't care to listen to his last two head coaches (Singletary and Marinelli) regarding the run game, what makes you think he will listen to his OL coach?

 

[nfoligno]

Just to throw it out there. The last time, at least reported, that Angelo and Lovie disagreed on who to hire was when Lovie first got the job and wanted Babich to come over as his DC, but Angelo refused and essentially hired Rivera, despite Lovie's feelings. I think Angelo's choice was slightly better.

 

Seems like old times!

 

Jauron/JA part II - The Hunt for Clue

 

[defiantgiant]

If Martz is hired, and I think he'll be strongly encouraged to listen to Mike Tice and the running game.

 

If Martz didn't care to listen to his last two head coaches (Singletary and Marinelli) regarding the run game, what makes you think he will listen to his OL coach?

Desperation might have something to do with it. Martz has a huge ego, but that might be tempered by the fact that he's having such a hard time breaking back into the league. That could be the one good thing to come out of the Bears' ridiculously prolonged coaching search: giving Martz the cold shoulder for so long may make him more willing to compromise in order to get the job.

 

And if he were willing to compromise, I think he could be a pretty effective coordinator. It's not like Martz is dumb, and I don't think his system is inherently bad or unsuited to our personnel, it's just his playcalling tendencies in the past that have been the problem. There are plenty of balanced, even run-heavy Air Coryell offenses out there, and plenty of ones that use a receiving tight end extremely well, too. Look at Tomlinson and Antonio Gates in San Diego, or Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson and Tony Gonzalez in Kansas City. If Martz is willing to take a page (maybe literally) from the Norv Turner/Al Saunders playbook in exchange for getting back into the NFL, the whole thing could work out OK. If not, we're in trouble.

 

Honestly, I'd prefer to see a passing-coordinator/running-coordinator split between Martz and Tice if Martz gets hired. Tice seems like he's a strong enough personality to stand up to Martz, and each of them would have a pretty good track record with their respective responsibilities.

[madlithuanian]

I'd tend to agree!

 

 

Just to throw it out there. The last time, at least reported, that Angelo and Lovie disagreed on who to hire was when Lovie first got the job and wanted Babich to come over as his DC, but Angelo refused and essentially hired Rivera, despite Lovie's feelings. I think Angelo's choice was slightly better.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I'm ok if we go either way. I like that Rogers runs a version of the west coast which at least means Jay isn't learning a completely new system (as he would with Martz) but at the same time, Martz has proven he is a dynamic offensive mind.

[LT2_3]

It's not like Martz is dumb, and I don't think his system is inherently bad or unsuited to our personnel......

 

I disagree. The offense is not suited to our personnel. It's also not suited to our home field for that matter.

 

In this offense, it pretty much requires 2 left tackles - one of which plays on the right side. This is why we went after Tait as hard as we did the year Shea was implementing the same offense. I don't have any idea how we would be able to find another qualified tackle for the right side in a year where we don't pick until the 3rd round, and there will be virtually no free agency.

 

Also, I don't think this offense translates well to wind, cold, and slippery turf conditions.

 

I think if we read that they are installing field turf at Soldier Field before a decision is made, I think we'll know which direction they are going.

 

 

 

[bowlingtwig]

Just to throw it out there. The last time, at least reported, that Angelo and Lovie disagreed on who to hire was when Lovie first got the job and wanted Babich to come over as his DC, but Angelo refused and essentially hired Rivera, despite Lovie's feelings. I think Angelo's choice was slightly better.

That is actually incorrect just a little as Lovie's first choice for DC was Rod Marinelli but the Bucs blocked that idea. However I do get what you are saying.

[defiantgiant]

I disagree. The offense is not suited to our personnel. It's also not suited to our home field for that matter.

 

In this offense, it pretty much requires 2 left tackles - one of which plays on the right side. This is why we went after Tait as hard as we did the year Shea was implementing the same offense. I don't have any idea how we would be able to find another qualified tackle for the right side in a year where we don't pick until the 3rd round, and there will be virtually no free agency.

I realize that the Chicago papers have been saying that, but they're wrong. The thing about needing another great pass-protector at right tackle, that's not the offensive system, that's Martz's playcalling. The Air Coryell system relies on taking shots deep down the field to stretch the defense vertically, but there's nothing that says you have to use the deep drops and slow-developing plays that Martz has called in the past, which put so much strain on the right tackle as a pass protector. In fact, since the Bears have some extremely fast receivers and Cutler has a very strong arm (much stronger than Warner's or Kitna's, for example,) it's possible that you could use a lot of standard 5-step drops and get the same big vertical gains. A great right tackle isn't a built-in requirement of the Coryell offense, it's just necessary because of the way Martz has liked to run it in the past, calling tons of deep drops and long throws, despite having a less-mobile quarterback who doesn't have tremendous arm strength. And that playcalling is absolutely something that he could change, if he were willing to do so.

 

Also, I don't think this offense translates well to wind, cold, and slippery turf conditions.

 

I think if we read that they are installing field turf at Soldier Field before a decision is made, I think we'll know which direction they are going.

That's an interesting point. Most of the other Air Coryell teams have played either in domes (St. Louis) or in places with very little inclement weather (San Diego, Kansas City, Washington D.C. to a lesser extent.) Here's an interesting thing, though: the worse the weather at their home stadiums, the more those Coryell teams emphasized the run. Martz's Rams almost never ran. Norv Turner's Chargers are pretty balanced, I think. Al Saunders' Chiefs and Joe Gibbs' Redskins were smashmouth running teams, despite being from the same family as Martz's offense. Gibbs and Saunders both started out favoring a passing attack in San Diego, then changed their approach when they went places where you have to be able to run the ball to be successful.

 

Now, I can't say for sure that a similar transition would work in Chicago: Soldier Field is a much worse passing environment than any of those teams' fields. But one look at what the Redskins did with the Hogs and John Riggins should tell you that a Coryell offense can definitely feature a power running attack more than a passing game. Again, I'm not saying Martz will change his mind. I'm just saying that if he were willing to show the same flexibility that Gibbs and Saunders did, he could make his offense feature the run.

[AZ54]

Greg Olsen = H-back.

[defiantgiant]

Greg Olsen = H-back.

God, I hope not. H-back is a FB/TE hybrid, right? A real H-back (like Chris Cooley) has to be able to lead block. I'd love to see Olsen in motion more, or Olsen as a receiver out of the backfield into the flat, but we all saw what happened when Turner tried to use him as a fullback.

[madlithuanian]

Yeah, an H-back needs to be able to block. Olsen is a matador.

 

God, I hope not. H-back is a FB/TE hybrid, right? A real H-back (like Chris Cooley) has to be able to lead block. I'd love to see Olsen in motion more, or Olsen as a receiver out of the backfield into the flat, but we all saw what happened when Turner tried to use him as a fullback.

 

[AZ54]

Yeah, an H-back needs to be able to block. Olsen is a matador.

 

I agree Olsen's blocking leaves a lot to be desired but I still think Martz will line him up like this from time to time. How often he'll be called to block from this role, I hope it's less than what Turner tried to do. Despite thinking this is what we'll see I still prefer to get a real FB who can block, catch, and run. I know it doesn't fit into what Martz does but it's something I think we need in the redzone and short yardage situations if nothing else.

[madlithuanian]

Oh, I don't mind a little change of pace, etc.. But to have him be the de-facto H-back is scary!

 

I agree Olsen's blocking leaves a lot to be desired but I still think Martz will line him up like this from time to time. How often he'll be called to block from this role, I hope it's less than what Turner tried to do. Despite thinking this is what we'll see I still prefer to get a real FB who can block, catch, and run. I know it doesn't fit into what Martz does but it's something I think we need in the redzone and short yardage situations if nothing else.