Martz envisions Hester as a dominant slot receiver

[Wesson44]

Bears | Martz envisions Hester as a dominant slot receiver

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Tue, 09 Feb 2010 09:00:21 -0800

 

Brad Biggs, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears offensive coordinator Mike Martz said during a radio interview that he envisions WR Devin Hester as a dominant slot receiver, a shift that could result in him being removed from the starting lineup. However, Martz could utilize plenty of three-wide receiver sets, which would provide Hester with ample opportunity to start. "Devin Hester in that role could just be stupid good, if that makes sense to you," Martz said. "What we can do with him inside, the matchups we can get with him on third corners, safeties and linebackers would be absolutely remarkable." Martz is cognizant of Hester's role on special teams and the value that he brings to the team as a returner and sees a way for him to excel in all areas. "I think it would be very difficult for him take every snap as a wide receiver and play at a high level on special teams, so we have to look at that," Martz said. "I think the role I have in mind for him would allow him to do both and do it at a high level."

 

 

 

 

Bears | Vasher could be released

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Tue, 09 Feb 2010 07:07:05 -0800

 

Brad Biggs, of the Chicago Tribune, reports Chicago Bears CB Nate Vasher could be in jeopardy of being released. Vasher finished last season as an occasional contributor and he is set to make $2.95 million in 2010 and also has a $500,000 workout bonus.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

No way, hes a #1 by far, everyone says so

[bradjock]

I was thrilled when I heard Martz said he thought Hester could be a better version of Az Hakim. I'm thrilled because it would appear we have an offensive guy who's not retarded. Martz understands exactly what Hester is and what he is capable of. Thanks christ we've gotten away from coaches saying, "He's our #1 WR . . . )

 

As for Vasher, I keep having to stop myself from asking, "How much cap room would we save?" (What cap?)

[bowlingtwig]

No way, hes a #1 by far, everyone says so

Please show me 1 person on here that is saying that he is a #1. I can't recall a single person. If I am not mistaken I am probably one of his biggest supporters on here and I have argued Hester with you for far to long. As I have said in the past to you that I don't think he is "useless" I believe is the word that you have used in the past week when referring to Hester. I have said in those arguments that he isn't useless as he is showing very good progress considering that he was just an athlete coming out of college, but that he is not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. Even with his contract he isn't getting paid a #1. He can get paid as a #1 if and only if he puts up the #'s and becomes our #1.

[madlithuanian]

If not officially, defiantgiant certainly hinted at Hester being a #1 in this thread.

 

http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5622

 

 

Please show me 1 person on here that is saying that he is a #1. I can't recall a single person. If I am not mistaken I am probably one of his biggest supporters on here and I have argued Hester with you for far to long. As I have said in the past to you that I don't think he is "useless" I believe is the word that you have used in the past week when referring to Hester. I have said in those arguments that he isn't useless as he is showing very good progress considering that he was just an athlete coming out of college, but that he is not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. Even with his contract he isn't getting paid a #1. He can get paid as a #1 if and only if he puts up the #'s and becomes our #1.

 

[Bears4Ever_34]

Hester has always been the perfect slot receiver but Knox kind of is too. I think slot receivers need to have some bulk on them though to take hits and Hester has that over Knox. Though Knox has the ability of a Desean Jackson to become an eventual #2 maybe #1 receiver. I agree with Martz our receiving core is fine.

[Mongo3451]

Please show me 1 person on here that is saying that he is a #1. I can't recall a single person. If I am not mistaken I am probably one of his biggest supporters on here and I have argued Hester with you for far to long. As I have said in the past to you that I don't think he is "useless" I believe is the word that you have used in the past week when referring to Hester. I have said in those arguments that he isn't useless as he is showing very good progress considering that he was just an athlete coming out of college, but that he is not a #1 by any stretch of the imagination. Even with his contract he isn't getting paid a #1. He can get paid as a #1 if and only if he puts up the #'s and becomes our #1.

I love the thought of Hester in the slot. I also like Bennett for that role too. Bennett has the natural feel and hands for the middle of the field, while Hester has everything else. Imagine Hester getting loose in the seam... Anyway, maybe Hester and Bennett can share the slot so Hester can stay fresher for return duties and explosive plays.

[nfoligno]

Its a matter of how you define what the hell a #1 WR is.

 

Defiantgiant has made the case that:

 

(a) Hester is the #1 WR on our team. I would have to agree. He is usually the #1 read. He leads the rest in most all statistical categories. He draws better CBs than any other WR on the team, and draws more double teams than any other WR. So yes, I would say he is in fact our #1 WR.

 

( Hester is a better Wr than most give him credit. He points out that Hester, if not for the injury, could have had something like 75-80 catches and over 1,000 yards. Those are nice numbers. No, they are not Fantasy Football #1 WR numbers. But they are good numbers in general.

 

So again, it comes down to a definition. No one has argued Hester is a pro bowler or an all pro WR. No one has argued Hester is even an upper tier WR. Defiantgaint has only gone so far as to argue he is OUR #1 WR, and further, argued that he is our #1 not simply be default, but because he is our best WR.

 

If not officially, defiantgiant certainly hinted at Hester being a #1 in this thread.

 

http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5622

 

[nfoligno]

Really, in a sense, we have a bunch of WRs who could do very well from the slot.

 

Hester - discussed.

 

Knox - I agree Knox is a tad skinny, but I think we will likely see Rusty put him on an offseason routine to try and add a few pounds to his 6 foot frame. I would like to see him closer to the 200lb range myself. Also, though he was on the smaller side, it should be pointed out that he worked from the slot last year, showed no fear going across the middle, and didn't seem to be injury prone in the process.

 

Bennett - How you utilize the slot can well depend on what sort of receivers you have on the outside. If you have speed on the outside, you can have a slot guy like Bennett, who runs solid routes, can be relied on to get open, and gives the QB a good under option while the outside receivers stretch the field. This could also be important in a system that may not best utilize the TE.

 

Iglesias - Still gotta beat the drum as I think Iglesias is so very much like Engram, but with more quickness and speed.

 

Personally, I best like the idea of having more speed on the outside, and having a more precise route runner in the slot, which would be Bennett or even Iglesias, but I think Martz likes to have more speed in the slot.

 

Hester has always been the perfect slot receiver but Knox kind of is too. I think slot receivers need to have some bulk on them though to take hits and Hester has that over Knox. Though Knox has the ability of a Desean Jackson to become an eventual #2 maybe #1 receiver. I agree with Martz our receiving core is fine.

 

[nfoligno]

I was thrilled when I heard Martz said he thought Hester could be a better version of Az Hakim. I'm thrilled because it would appear we have an offensive guy who's not retarded. Martz understands exactly what Hester is and what he is capable of. Thanks christ we've gotten away from coaches saying, "He's our #1 WR . . . )

 

Not to defend our staff, but I personally don't think it is so much that our staff ever truly felt Hester was a #1 WR, but simply that he was the best we had. That they tried to trade for Boldin in itself likely shows they didn't really think of Hester as a #1. Today, we have other options to start, but I am not sure the same could have been said last offseason.

 

As for Vasher, I keep having to stop myself from asking, "How much cap room would we save?" (What cap?)

 

I am not sure how many years he has left on his deal, but assuming he has multiple years remaining, cutting him today would save on future cap, if an when a cap in reinstated. Further, I think it is also an issue of pure dollars. I think I read he is due around $3m base salary, as well as something like a $500k roster bonus this year. With everything going on w/ the CBA, it is my argument the ownership is not going to want to spend big in FA, and saving money on a player who doesn't seem to have a role on this team anymore makes sense in that it could push some extra cash to FA.

[madlithuanian]

Fair enough, but until we see more of DA, we may conclude DA is the better of the 2 at this moment.

 

Its a matter of how you define what the hell a #1 WR is.

 

Defiantgiant has made the case that:

 

(a) Hester is the #1 WR on our team. I would have to agree. He is usually the #1 read. He leads the rest in most all statistical categories. He draws better CBs than any other WR on the team, and draws more double teams than any other WR. So yes, I would say he is in fact our #1 WR.

 

( Hester is a better Wr than most give him credit. He points out that Hester, if not for the injury, could have had something like 75-80 catches and over 1,000 yards. Those are nice numbers. No, they are not Fantasy Football #1 WR numbers. But they are good numbers in general.

 

So again, it comes down to a definition. No one has argued Hester is a pro bowler or an all pro WR. No one has argued Hester is even an upper tier WR. Defiantgaint has only gone so far as to argue he is OUR #1 WR, and further, argued that he is our #1 not simply be default, but because he is our best WR.

 

[nfoligno]

At the moment, I agree. Last offseason, I think it very fair to have believed Hester was our best option. This year, much has changed as DA really emerged late in the season, Knox really hit the field running as a rookie, and Bennett too proved capable of starting. Last year, all three were far greater unknowns then they are today, which is why I think Martz feels more comfortable moving Hester to the slot.

 

If Martz were hired last year, I believe he would have started him on the outside, but today, w/ other options, he is more able to put Hester in the slot.

 

Fair enough, but until we see more of DA, we may conclude DA is the better of the 2 at this moment.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Its a matter of how you define what the hell a #1 WR is.

 

Defiantgiant has made the case that:

 

(a) Hester is the #1 WR on our team. I would have to agree. He is usually the #1 read. He leads the rest in most all statistical categories. He draws better CBs than any other WR on the team, and draws more double teams than any other WR. So yes, I would say he is in fact our #1 WR.

 

( Hester is a better Wr than most give him credit. He points out that Hester, if not for the injury, could have had something like 75-80 catches and over 1,000 yards. Those are nice numbers. No, they are not Fantasy Football #1 WR numbers. But they are good numbers in general.

 

So again, it comes down to a definition. No one has argued Hester is a pro bowler or an all pro WR. No one has argued Hester is even an upper tier WR. Defiantgaint has only gone so far as to argue he is OUR #1 WR, and further, argued that he is our #1 not simply be default, but because he is our best WR.

 

I will concede that he is the "Bears #1 receiver" in the sense that he was in that position. His stats are really not all that better than the rest of the receivers on the team so....

 

I still cannot agree that he is the "best WR".

 

 

 

[nfoligno]

I don't think he is our best WR either. Defiantgiant makes that argument. I don't.

 

I think it is understandable for the staff to have viewed him as our best WR last year, but this year, I don't think that is true any longer, and frankly, nor does our staff. If Martz felt Hester was our best WR, he would not be talking about him as a slot option, no matter how great of a slot player he thinks Hester may be.

 

I personally would put DA above Hester, though I might give Hester the edge over the rest as of now. Knox has incredible potential, but does not have consistency in his game, and I think it also must be remembered that we really limited him in terms of playbook. How will he handle having to learn far more? I like Bennett, and while he offers a good level of consistency, he also lacks the big play ability. So I might still give Hester the nod over the rest, but would put DA at the top, though he still has much to prove himself.

 

Then there is my boy Iglesias, who I believe will in the end prove to be our 2nd best WR. If he doesn't develop, I will have pleny of egg on my face, but hey, as I am the only one beating the Iglesias drum, I'll get much cred, right Seriously, I think Iglesais was held back last year much the way Bennett was his first year. I think Iglesias proves enough in camp to earn more snaps, and will only push forward from there. In the end, I think he becomes a #2 starter for us, and w/ a player like DA on the other side, Cutler could have a combo similar to Marshall/Royal.

 

I will concede that he is the "Bears #1 receiver" in the sense that he was in that position. His stats are really not all that better than the rest of the receivers on the team so....

 

I still cannot agree that he is the "best WR".

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I don't think he is our best WR either. Defiantgiant makes that argument. I don't.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood your quoting him with agreeing with him. My bad.

 

I think it is understandable for the staff to have viewed him as our best WR last year, but this year, I don't think that is true any longer, and frankly, nor does our staff. If Martz felt Hester was our best WR, he would not be talking about him as a slot option, no matter how great of a slot player he thinks Hester may be.

 

I personally would put DA above Hester, though I might give Hester the edge over the rest as of now. Knox has incredible potential, but does not have consistency in his game, and I think it also must be remembered that we really limited him in terms of playbook. How will he handle having to learn far more? I like Bennett, and while he offers a good level of consistency, he also lacks the big play ability. So I might still give Hester the nod over the rest, but would put DA at the top, though he still has much to prove himself.

 

Knox was a rookie. How much more consistency do you not need? Not sure what you mean exactly. As far as him being "limited", I don't see it as his fault but Turner's play calling, or lack thereof. But that problem has been resolved. Bennett, I believe, is a solid clutch receiver. He doesn't necessarily need to have big play capability if he is sure to catch the pass thrown his way. Neither of the points you made necessarily make Hester better than either one, or give him the "nod".

 

Then there is my boy Iglesias, who I believe will in the end prove to be our 2nd best WR. If he doesn't develop, I will have pleny of egg on my face, but hey, as I am the only one beating the Iglesias drum, I'll get much cred, right Seriously, I think Iglesais was held back last year much the way Bennett was his first year. I think Iglesias proves enough in camp to earn more snaps, and will only push forward from there. In the end, I think he becomes a #2 starter for us, and w/ a player like DA on the other side, Cutler could have a combo similar to Marshall/Royal.

 

I hope that you are right about this one. I just hope he doesn't turn out to be another (former fellow Sooner) Mark Bradley. And having egg on one's face is not flattering.

 

Again, Iglesais could have very easily been held back because of Turner's lack of ingenuity. Or was it because Hester was holding the spot??? Hmmm.... I go with Turner's lack of creativity or adaptability.

 

 

[nfoligno]

I hope that you are right about this one. I just hope he doesn't turn out to be another (former fellow Sooner) Mark Bradley. And having egg on one's face is not flattering.

 

Again, Iglesais could have very easily been held back because of Turner's lack of ingenuity. Or was it because Hester was holding the spot??? Hmmm.... I go with Turner's lack of creativity or adaptability.

 

What I think it sort of comes down to is Turner, and I would make a couple points to make that case.

 

One. Turner really does not use many WRs. This past season, he really only would have 3 active WRs in each game, as the 4th would be Davis, who really had no part on the offense and was a special teams specialist again this year. I would argue Turner was similar in previous years too. Turner relies on a few WRs, but is not high on rotation. Even when we would go w/ a 4 WR set, it was often w/ Olsen motioning out. So if you are not part of the top 3, you are not really going to get much of a look. Besides Iglesias, DA was evidence of that issue this past year.

 

Two. Turner isn't very creative. Iglesias came in and was pegged as basically being Bennetts backup. As Bennett was a starter, and never went down with injury, there was never a thought of Iglesias coming in. Knox got lucky in that the player he was more considered the backup for (DA) went down with injury. Knox having the speed was being developed as a slot receiver already, and after DA went down, he was given the shot. If Bennett went down, I question if we would have even seen Knox. Similar, the previous year, Bennett was stuck in deep depth, and regardless how many players stunk up the field, he was not given an opportunity. Hell, this past year, if it were not for Hester's injury, we would have likely never seen DA.

 

Sure, it is possible all the pre-draft reports on Iglesias were wrong. The reports all claimed him to be a superiour route runner w/ great hands, and one who picked up playbooks easily. Yet he comes to the bears and its the opposite. I am simply not sure I buy into that. I think others were ahead of him, and he was simply burried on the depth chart. Time will tell. Martz is about the exact opposite. Martz is the sort play more 4 WR sets w/ 4 actual WRs, and the sort who will utilzie all the WRs on his roster. If Iglesias doesn't step up under Martz, then I will have likely been proven wrong. Time will tell.

 

For the record, and again, pre-draft reports could be just totally wrong, but Iglesias is a very different WR than Bradley. Bradley was never even a starter in college, and his learning curve was great. Combine that need for development with the fact he could never stay on the field (injury) long enough to actually develop, and his doom was not a surprise. He came to the league very raw, and wasn't able to develop. Iglesais was expected to be "NFL ready" and the sort who could pickup systems far more easily. That didn't happen w/ Turner, but I believe fans will be surprised at the turnaround to come.

 

 

[AZ54]

Then there is my boy Iglesias, who I believe will in the end prove to be our 2nd best WR. If he doesn't develop, I will have pleny of egg on my face, but hey, as I am the only one beating the Iglesias drum, I'll get much cred, right Seriously, I think Iglesais was held back last year much the way Bennett was his first year. I think Iglesias proves enough in camp to earn more snaps, and will only push forward from there. In the end, I think he becomes a #2 starter for us, and w/ a player like DA on the other side, Cutler could have a combo similar to Marshall/Royal.

 

 

You may be beating the drum daily but I too like Iglesias and was happy when he fell to us. I would have been happy if we'd taken him in Rd 2. He played against first rate competition and was consistently productive in college. While his physical traits don't jump out at you (more quick than fast) he is very efficient on the field. I think he'll end up the same type WR for us.

 

I was asking for DA to get on the field late in the year but I'd have liked to have seen Iglesias out there in the last two games too even if it meant Knox was inactive. We figured it would have been Knox we'd be wondering about this offseason but overall I'm glad the way things have worked out because the biggest question marks in our WR corps were answered last year (DA, Knox).

[nfoligno]

Answered? I don't know about that. I wouold say we saw enough to give lots of hope the question can be answered this year, but I don't think the question is yet answered.

 

Glad to hear I am not alone on Iglesias. As for who we should have taken a look at at the end of the year, what I think is BS is that we have to choose. We only kept 4 WRs active on game day, and one was always Davis who was a special teams guy only. That means we would only dress 3 true WRs each week. That is a crock. Especially after we were "mathmatically" out of it, there is no question in my mind DA and Iglesias both should have been out there. Sorry, but Davis should have found himself on the inactive list. At that point, there is absolutely no reason to keep him on the active roster. The end of a year like that is when you take a look at your youth, and get them reps. Especially with Hester out, we should have been looking at all four young WRs (DA, Bennett, Iglesias & Knox).

 

You may be beating the drum daily but I too like Iglesias and was happy when he fell to us. I would have been happy if we'd taken him in Rd 2. He played against first rate competition and was consistently productive in college. While his physical traits don't jump out at you (more quick than fast) he is very efficient on the field. I think he'll end up the same type WR for us.

 

I was asking for DA to get on the field late in the year but I'd have liked to have seen Iglesias out there in the last two games too even if it meant Knox was inactive. We figured it would have been Knox we'd be wondering about this offseason but overall I'm glad the way things have worked out because the biggest question marks in our WR corps were answered last year (DA, Knox).

 

[AZ54]

Answered? I don't know about that. I wouold say we saw enough to give lots of hope the question can be answered this year, but I don't think the question is yet answered.

 

Glad to hear I am not alone on Iglesias. As for who we should have taken a look at at the end of the year, what I think is BS is that we have to choose. We only kept 4 WRs active on game day, and one was always Davis who was a special teams guy only. That means we would only dress 3 true WRs each week. That is a crock. Especially after we were "mathmatically" out of it, there is no question in my mind DA and Iglesias both should have been out there. Sorry, but Davis should have found himself on the inactive list. At that point, there is absolutely no reason to keep him on the active roster. The end of a year like that is when you take a look at your youth, and get them reps. Especially with Hester out, we should have been looking at all four young WRs (DA, Bennett, Iglesias & Knox).

 

I guess it depends on what you considered the question to be. For me with both of these guys it was simply did they even belong in the NFL and could they make plays. Both proved they belong and IMO have shown enough to be potential starters.

 

If the question was are they legit starting WR then no they haven't proven that yet. I think they showed enough potential to deserve a legitimate opportunity to earn those roles. That means lots of practice reps with the first team.

 

Lovie is simply too short-sighted to know what's best for his future. If Iglesias was showing up in practice he should have had playing time late in the year. If special teams was an issue for any of these guys (it was a legit concern) then how were they going to learn to cover kicks if you don't get them on the field to do it?