Some more FA options

[Guest TerraTor]

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription.aspx?EntryId=3448

 

Dunta Robinson

 

 

[nfoligno]

This is a player I think we should be seriously looking at. The coach who developed him (Hoke) is now on our staff, which should give us plenty of insight.

 

Yes, DL and FS are massive holes, but I still think CB is as well. Once, I argued against adding an upper tier FA CB like Robinson, arguing that we had several promising young players and that a pass rusher was what we needed far more. I still think a pass rusher should be the top target, but if we can't add a player like Peppers, Kampman or the like, then we should really be looking at CB.

 

We are just so thin at CB. Bowman is a promising youth, but is not yet really proven. But even if we give him the nod, Tillman has been going downhill for a while, and we have nothing after these two.

 

http://theredzone.org/BlogDescription.aspx?EntryId=3448

 

Dunta Robinson

 

[bowlingtwig]

This is a player I think we should be seriously looking at. The coach who developed him (Hoke) is now on our staff, which should give us plenty of insight.

 

Yes, DL and FS are massive holes, but I still think CB is as well. Once, I argued against adding an upper tier FA CB like Robinson, arguing that we had several promising young players and that a pass rusher was what we needed far more. I still think a pass rusher should be the top target, but if we can't add a player like Peppers, Kampman or the like, then we should really be looking at CB.

 

We are just so thin at CB. Bowman is a promising youth, but is not yet really proven. But even if we give him the nod, Tillman has been going downhill for a while, and we have nothing after these two.

I agree. I would much rather have Peppers or Kampman, but if we can't get that we should pursue Robinson. He would significantly upgrade the DB's.

[defiantgiant]

I don't know about this. Robinson's the best corner on the market, and he's going to be looking for a starting job. Starting him on the Bears would mean either knocking Bowman down to nickel (which would reduce his playing time and could hamper his development) or moving Tillman to FS (which I'm really not a fan of, as it could aggravate his injury problems and shorten his career.)

 

If we didn't make either of those moves, we'd be offering Robinson a job as a nickel corner; I doubt he's going to be interested in that, when a team like Detroit or Atlanta would offer him a starting job and the money that goes with it. Also, it'd be kind of a waste when we could just address FS and move Manning to the nickel.

 

As for Robinson replacing Tillman, I don't know about that either. Robinson's only 2 years younger than Tillman and has had some injury problems of his own. We need an eventual replacement for Peanut, not an immediate one. I'd much rather sign a guy to play FS, let Manning play where he's actually been good (nickel and kick returner) and try to find that eventual replacement for Peanut in the draft, either this year or the next.

[Guest TerraTor]

I agree. I would much rather have Peppers or Kampman, but if we can't get that we should pursue Robinson. He would significantly upgrade the DB's.

 

In a perfect world, Get Peppers and Robinson (or get kampman and robinson) and let Tillman play FS which has been suggested oh about 1000 times over the past few years

[madlithuanian]

I could not agree more...

 

This is a player I think we should be seriously looking at. The coach who developed him (Hoke) is now on our staff, which should give us plenty of insight.

 

Yes, DL and FS are massive holes, but I still think CB is as well. Once, I argued against adding an upper tier FA CB like Robinson, arguing that we had several promising young players and that a pass rusher was what we needed far more. I still think a pass rusher should be the top target, but if we can't add a player like Peppers, Kampman or the like, then we should really be looking at CB.

 

We are just so thin at CB. Bowman is a promising youth, but is not yet really proven. But even if we give him the nod, Tillman has been going downhill for a while, and we have nothing after these two.

 

[madlithuanian]

Agreed....

 

In a perfect world, Get Peppers and Robinson (or get kampman and robinson) and let Tillman play FS which has been suggested oh about 1000 times over the past few years

 

[nfoligno]

One. Sure, if there is a good or great FS on the market, you want to go after him, but it doesn't look like a good crop of FS'. If you are not going to get a big time FS, there is no reason to to focus on other areas of need.

 

Two. Robinson is better than Tillman or Bowman. Robinson would be an instant upgrade today, and frankly, down the road as well.

 

Robinson had AN injury, which affected a year and a half, but has not had continual injuries. Absent to two years he dealt w/ the injury, which was a major injury, he played all 16 games each of his other 4 seasons. Tillman has been dealing w/ injuries for most of his career, and has not started all 16 games since his rookie season. He plays most games, but does so injuries and at a lower level. Bowman is simply a big injury risk when you factor his college and first NFL season.

 

I like Bowman, but if it came down to it, I would not have a problem adding Robinson to play opposite Tillman, and allow Bowman to move to nickel. At that point, we would have three solid CBs, our depth would be improved, and in Bowman, we would have someone capable of taking over for Tillman eventually.

 

I don't know about this. Robinson's the best corner on the market, and he's going to be looking for a starting job. Starting him on the Bears would mean either knocking Bowman down to nickel (which would reduce his playing time and could hamper his development) or moving Tillman to FS (which I'm really not a fan of, as it could aggravate his injury problems and shorten his career.)

 

If we didn't make either of those moves, we'd be offering Robinson a job as a nickel corner; I doubt he's going to be interested in that, when a team like Detroit or Atlanta would offer him a starting job and the money that goes with it. Also, it'd be kind of a waste when we could just address FS and move Manning to the nickel.

 

As for Robinson replacing Tillman, I don't know about that either. Robinson's only 2 years younger than Tillman and has had some injury problems of his own. We need an eventual replacement for Peanut, not an immediate one. I'd much rather sign a guy to play FS, let Manning play where he's actually been good (nickel and kick returner) and try to find that eventual replacement for Peanut in the draft, either this year or the next.

 

[Guest TerraTor]

I don't know about this. Robinson's the best corner on the market, and he's going to be looking for a starting job. Starting him on the Bears would mean either knocking Bowman down to nickel (which would reduce his playing time and could hamper his development) or moving Tillman to FS (which I'm really not a fan of, as it could aggravate his injury problems and shorten his career.)

 

If we didn't make either of those moves, we'd be offering Robinson a job as a nickel corner; I doubt he's going to be interested in that, when a team like Detroit or Atlanta would offer him a starting job and the money that goes with it. Also, it'd be kind of a waste when we could just address FS and move Manning to the nickel.

 

As for Robinson replacing Tillman, I don't know about that either. Robinson's only 2 years younger than Tillman and has had some injury problems of his own. We need an eventual replacement for Peanut, not an immediate one. I'd much rather sign a guy to play FS, let Manning play where he's actually been good (nickel and kick returner) and try to find that eventual replacement for Peanut in the draft, either this year or the next.

 

best case scenario is we get a pick for D. Manning. Cant imagine anyone would offer one up tho, a 3rd rounder i believe

[Mongo3451]

I don't know about this. Robinson's the best corner on the market, and he's going to be looking for a starting job. Starting him on the Bears would mean either knocking Bowman down to nickel (which would reduce his playing time and could hamper his development) or moving Tillman to FS (which I'm really not a fan of, as it could aggravate his injury problems and shorten his career.)

 

If we didn't make either of those moves, we'd be offering Robinson a job as a nickel corner; I doubt he's going to be interested in that, when a team like Detroit or Atlanta would offer him a starting job and the money that goes with it. Also, it'd be kind of a waste when we could just address FS and move Manning to the nickel.

 

As for Robinson replacing Tillman, I don't know about that either. Robinson's only 2 years younger than Tillman and has had some injury problems of his own. We need an eventual replacement for Peanut, not an immediate one. I'd much rather sign a guy to play FS, let Manning play where he's actually been good (nickel and kick returner) and try to find that eventual replacement for Peanut in the draft, either this year or the next.

I'll jump on my soapbox for Tillman to FS, again, if we signed Robinson. Moving corners to FS has extended the carreers of a few good corners in the past. I'll disagree on the injury risk being greater for Tillman at Safety. His shoulders are the main problem and that may be alleviated by playing from the angle a safety would come from vs a corner.(more squared to the point of attack) Never know. I still think Tillman is average to below at CB and feel he could be really good. Anyway, you'd upgrade two positions at once by doing this. I wouldn't count on it though because the staff is so hard headed, they would probably move Bowman to safety and say, "we're going to play our 2 best corners and our safeties are interchangeable".

[Guest TerraTor]

I'll jump on my soapbox for Tillman to FS, again, if we signed Robinson. Moving corners to FS has extended the carreers of a few good corners in the past. I'll disagree on the injury risk being greater for Tillman at Safety. His shoulders are the main problem and that may be alleviated by playing from the angle a safety would come from vs a corner.(more squared to the point of attack) Never know. I still think Tillman is average to below at CB and feel he could be really good. Anyway, you'd upgrade two positions at once by doing this. I wouldn't count on it though because the staff is so hard headed, they would probably move Bowman to safety and say, "we're going to play our 2 best corners and our safeties are interchangeable".

 

 

Doesnt it make u really wish for Ditka as coach? Remember that Preseason game where he said about Q. Mitchell "This is a guy who i wouldnt allow anywhere near my starting roster. Hes getting beat every play" Im sure those werent his exact words

 

Watching Lovie Smiths' Zombie look into the sky infuriates me to a point i cant describe.

[nfoligno]

I am not saying such an idea has no value, but I disagree where you say we upgrade two positions at once. The is potential in a move such as Tillman to safety, but I would not call this an upgrade. He has never played safety. There is an adjustment just moving from playing RCB to LCB. Moving from CB to FS has a considerable adjustment as well. Yes, I realize numerous others have done it. I am not saying it is impossible. I am saying there is a considerable adjustment factor and question the assumption that such a change would be automatic or seamless.

 

Okay, and lets say for a moment that we start Robinson (I am assuming you are saying we sign him) and Bowman, w/ Tillman at FS. Bowman goes down, now what. Do you keep Tillman at FS, or move him back to CB. If you move him back to CB, you now have an issue of replacing your FS w/ someone who frankly, isn't any good. That is the problem you face when your top backup at one position is also a starter at another.

 

I am not saying the idea shouldn't be considered, but (best case) I would much rather seek out that long term solution, and I am not sure Tillman to FS is that solution.

 

I'll jump on my soapbox for Tillman to FS, again, if we signed Robinson. Moving corners to FS has extended the carreers of a few good corners in the past. I'll disagree on the injury risk being greater for Tillman at Safety. His shoulders are the main problem and that may be alleviated by playing from the angle a safety would come from vs a corner.(more squared to the point of attack) Never know. I still think Tillman is average to below at CB and feel he could be really good. Anyway, you'd upgrade two positions at once by doing this. I wouldn't count on it though because the staff is so hard headed, they would probably move Bowman to safety and say, "we're going to play our 2 best corners and our safeties are interchangeable".

 

[madlithuanian]

Good points....

 

However, just watching Peanut play over the years, I get a vibe that he hawks and plays "like a S". I recall a handfull of great coverages he had, but it's not like I'm watching Champ Bailey put on a clinic.

 

I think he has a natrual lean towards the position just by how he generally plays. Just a vibe, nothing more.

 

I fear our piss poor staff won't get him ready though (no disrespect to piss...it's a good antidote for stingray and jellyfish stings). My hope is Dunta and him play CB this year, and then when real coaches arrive, they shift peanut then.

 

 

 

 

I am not saying such an idea has no value, but I disagree where you say we upgrade two positions at once. The is potential in a move such as Tillman to safety, but I would not call this an upgrade. He has never played safety. There is an adjustment just moving from playing RCB to LCB. Moving from CB to FS has a considerable adjustment as well. Yes, I realize numerous others have done it. I am not saying it is impossible. I am saying there is a considerable adjustment factor and question the assumption that such a change would be automatic or seamless.

 

Okay, and lets say for a moment that we start Robinson (I am assuming you are saying we sign him) and Bowman, w/ Tillman at FS. Bowman goes down, now what. Do you keep Tillman at FS, or move him back to CB. If you move him back to CB, you now have an issue of replacing your FS w/ someone who frankly, isn't any good. That is the problem you face when your top backup at one position is also a starter at another.

 

I am not saying the idea shouldn't be considered, but (best case) I would much rather seek out that long term solution, and I am not sure Tillman to FS is that solution.

 

[Mongo3451]

name='nfoligno' date='Feb 25 2010, 11:06 AM' post='78026']

I am not saying such an idea has no value, but I disagree where you say we upgrade two positions at once. The is potential in a move such as Tillman to safety, but I would not call this an upgrade. He has never played safety. There is an adjustment just moving from playing RCB to LCB. Moving from CB to FS has a considerable adjustment as well. Yes, I realize numerous others have done it. I am not saying it is impossible. I am saying there is a considerable adjustment factor and question the assumption that such a change would be automatic or seamless.

He actually played safety in college. I realize it doesn't resemble the pro game, but he does have some experience at it. I can honestly say Tillman would come in and be an instant upgrade at FS. Make note, that I have no factual evidence to back this up, but to me he's a corner trapped in a safety's skillset/body.

 

Okay, and lets say for a moment that we start Robinson (I am assuming you are saying we sign him) and Bowman, w/ Tillman at FS. Bowman goes down, now what. Do you keep Tillman at FS, or move him back to CB. If you move him back to CB, you now have an issue of replacing your FS w/ someone who frankly, isn't any good. That is the problem you face when your top backup at one position is also a starter at another.

If you move him, leave him. I have had such a problem with our staff thinking everyone is interchangeable. If he's practicing as a safety, he's not thinking like a corner anymore.

 

I am not saying the idea shouldn't be considered, but (best case) I would much rather seek out that long term solution, and I am not sure Tillman to FS is that solution.

I agree, but... Long term solution will be determined after Lovie is gone. It's plain that he has no clue on how to develop a FS.

 

[madlithuanian]

I thought so! Thanks for posting that...

 

He actually played safety in college. I realize it doesn't resemble the pro game, but he does have some experience at it. I can honestly say Tillman would come in and be an instant upgrade at FS. Make note, that I have no factual evidence to back this up, but to me he's a corner trapped in a safety's skillset/body.

 

If you move him, leave him. I have had such a problem with our staff thinking everyone is interchangeable. If he's practicing as a safety, he's not thinking like a corner anymore.

 

I agree, but... Long term solution will be determined after Lovie is gone. It's plain that he has no clue on how to develop a FS.

 

[DaBearSox]

Doesnt it make u really wish for Ditka as coach? Remember that Preseason game where he said about Q. Mitchell "This is a guy who i wouldnt allow anywhere near my starting roster. Hes getting beat every play" Im sure those werent his exact words

 

Watching Lovie Smiths' Zombie look into the sky infuriates me to a point i cant describe.

 

[madlithuanian]

Your pictures are so frustrating...

 

Zombie's face makes me want to hurl, Farley's makes me want to smile, and the links just make me hungry!

 

 

[ChileBear]

Your pictures are so frustrating...

 

Zombie's face makes me want to hurl, Farley's makes me want to smile, and the links just make me hungry!

Damn, he's wearing my hat. Now what will I do for headgear?!

[madlithuanian]

I'd go with this one....

 

 

Damn, he's wearing my hat. Now what will I do for headgear?!

 

[Connorbear]

Doesnt it make u really wish for Ditka as coach? Remember that Preseason game where he said about Q. Mitchell "This is a guy who i wouldnt allow anywhere near my starting roster. Hes getting beat every play" Im sure those werent his exact words

 

Watching Lovie Smiths' Zombie look into the sky infuriates me to a point i cant describe.

Let me preface this by reminding everyone that I want Lovie gone.

 

Ditka should have won 3 Superbowls. He had an extremely experienced coaching staff working for him. He completely fell apart in New Orleans. No way would I want him as a head coach now. IMHO Ditka was overrated as a head coach by Bear fans largely because he played for the Bears and he wears his emotions on his sleeve.

 

Peace

[madlithuanian]

I'd gladly take him as team president though...

 

Let me preface this by reminding everyone that I want Lovie gone.

 

Ditka should have one 3 Superbowls. He had an extremely experienced coaching staff working for him. He completely fell apart in New Orleans. No way would I want him as a head coach now. IMHO Ditka was overrated as a head coach by Bear fans largely because he played for the Bears and he wears his emotions on his sleeve.

 

Peace

 

[Connorbear]

I'd gladly take him as team president though...

The man who traded his entire draft for Ricky Williams? No thanks.

 

Peace

[ParkerBear7]

I'll jump on my soapbox for Tillman to FS, again, if we signed Robinson. Moving corners to FS has extended the carreers of a few good corners in the past. I'll disagree on the injury risk being greater for Tillman at Safety. His shoulders are the main problem and that may be alleviated by playing from the angle a safety would come from vs a corner.(more squared to the point of attack) Never know. I still think Tillman is average to below at CB and feel he could be really good. Anyway, you'd upgrade two positions at once by doing this. I wouldn't count on it though because the staff is so hard headed, they would probably move Bowman to safety and say, "we're going to play our 2 best corners and our safeties are interchangeable".

 

 

Mongo; to further your point I believe HOF Rod Woodson began his career as a CB and then moved to S to further his career! I think Tillman is good enough pro to make a seemless transition and would probably get at least 6 int and cause some more fumbles! Peppers and Robinson would get this D back to being the Monsters of old!

[ParkerBear7]

I'd gladly take him as team president though...

 

 

I loved Ditkas passion for playing the game the right way and for telling us what he really thinks; very similar Ozzie Guillen!

[Connorbear]

I loved Ditkas passion for playing the game the right way and for telling us what he really thinks; very similar Ozzie Guillen!

Hey, I love his passion and honesty as well but it doesn't necessarily make him a good coach or team president.

 

Peace