Some more FA options

[bradjock]

I am not saying such an idea has no value, but I disagree where you say we upgrade two positions at once. The is potential in a move such as Tillman to safety, but I would not call this an upgrade. He has never played safety. There is an adjustment just moving from playing RCB to LCB. Moving from CB to FS has a considerable adjustment as well. Yes, I realize numerous others have done it. I am not saying it is impossible. I am saying there is a considerable adjustment factor and question the assumption that such a change would be automatic or seamless.

 

Isn't Peanut automatically better then everybody else we played at safety last year? Even if he struggles adapting to the position he's still an upgrade.

 

Okay, and lets say for a moment that we start Robinson (I am assuming you are saying we sign him) and Bowman, w/ Tillman at FS. Bowman goes down, now what. Do you keep Tillman at FS, or move him back to CB. If you move him back to CB, you now have an issue of replacing your FS w/ someone who frankly, isn't any good. That is the problem you face when your top backup at one position is also a starter at another.

 

That's a no-brainer, you leave Peanut at safety. Heck, I like Corey Graham. You hope D.J. Moore develops and maybe take another CB with our 3rd round pick.

 

I am not saying the idea shouldn't be considered, but (best case) I would much rather seek out that long term solution, and I am not sure Tillman to FS is that solution.

 

How can he be a good cover-corner, be the best in the league at stripping the ball, and not be able to make the move to safety? That makes zero sense to me. My only concern would be injuries.

[defiantgiant]

How can he be a good cover-corner, be the best in the league at stripping the ball, and not be able to make the move to safety? That makes zero sense to me. My only concern would be injuries.

That's not an insignificant concern. Tillman's a decent-sized corner, but he'd be pretty undersized for a safety, and he's already had enough shoulder and back injuries as it is. If he's getting hurt when he has to drive 5 yards or 8 yards to the ballcarrier as a zone corner, how much worse would it get if he were driving 15 or 20 yards from the deep middle and going that much faster before the collision? I'd be surprised if he made it 16 games as a safety.

 

Even if he could stay healthy and make the transition smoothly, Peanut's getting close to 30. How many years could he be the solution at safety? Two? Three? Even in the unlikely event that he didn't get injured again, he wouldn't stop the safety carousel for long.

[bradjock]

That's not an insignificant concern. Tillman's a decent-sized corner, but he'd be pretty undersized for a safety, and he's already had enough shoulder and back injuries as it is. If he's getting hurt when he has to drive 5 yards or 8 yards to the ballcarrier as a zone corner, how much worse would it get if he were driving 15 or 20 yards from the deep middle and going that much faster before the collision? I'd be surprised if he made it 16 games as a safety.

 

Aren't safeties short because they're too damn small to play corner? If he's a free safety, he won't take that much abuse. That being said, for this to happen we'd have to sign Robinson. I don't see that happening because he'll cost so much.

 

Even if he could stay healthy and make the transition smoothly, Peanut's getting close to 30. How many years could he be the solution at safety? Two? Three? Even in the unlikely event that he didn't get injured again, he wouldn't stop the safety carousel for long.

 

Darren Sharper is 34. How old is what's his name from Green Bay? We could get 5 years out of him.

 

But again, we'd have to pay one helluva a lot of money for a corner to replace him with, and I don't see that happening.

[defiantgiant]

Aren't safeties short because they're too damn small to play corner? If he's a free safety, he won't take that much abuse.

There aren't very many safeties in the NFL lighter than 200 pounds. Ed Reed is the only one I can think of, and he's having some injury issues now. Also, our free safeties do a lot of tackling: Lovie doesn't use a traditional centerfielder at FS, like teams that play a lot of Cover-3 or single high coverage. I'd bet that Tillman would have to hit at least as often as he currently does, but with bigger distances to cover and a bigger head of steam, which means harder collisions.

 

Darren Sharper is 34. How old is what's his name from Green Bay? We could get 5 years out of him.

Nick Collins from Green Bay? He's 26. Or do you mean Charles Woodson? He's 33, but he's a corner, not a safety. Capers did move him around in the defense this past year (like when he moved to the slot to shadow Greg Olsen) but he's far from a full-time safety. There are plenty of corners in their 30s who are still elite players, not so much with safeties.

 

As for Sharper, he's very much a centerfield-type safety like Reed. They play him mostly in coverage and let him make plays on the ball. I'm not saying that there are NO good safeties over 30 in the NFL, but Sharper's the exception, and people are still wondering if he's at the end of the road. It's possible that we could get 5 years out of Tillman at safety, but I think it's much more likely that we'd get 1 or 2. I mean, the guy is hurt for at least a couple of games a season as a corner, and how many back/shoulder injuries has he had now? To think he'd prolong his career at safety, you'd have to think that our safeties take LESS punishment than our corners. As far as I've seen, that's just not true.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Tillman's skill set at safety. He'd be awesome at it, and a secondary of Bowman-Robinson-Tillman-Afalava wouldn't be bad at ALL. I just worry that it wouldn't last very long, and then we'd be right back in this same situation in a year or two.

[Mongo3451]

Don't get me wrong, I'd love Tillman's skill set at safety. He'd be awesome at it, and a secondary of Bowman-Robinson-Tillman-Afalava wouldn't be bad at ALL. I just worry that it wouldn't last very long, and then we'd be right back in this same situation in a year or two.

Better now than never... Regardless, something has to be done. It's not like it's a huge investment, he's already on the team and not a very good corner. The upgrade at safety may be worth the gamble. You could even play your corners tighter.

[defiantgiant]

Better now than never... Regardless, something has to be done. It's not like it's a huge investment, he's already on the team and not a very good corner. The upgrade at safety may be worth the gamble. You could even play your corners tighter.

I disagree: better never than now. Tillman's at least a league-average corner, and while he might be an above-average safety, it wouldn't be for very long. Since we play so much zone at corner, losing a step isn't going to hamper him like it would for a man corner, but moving to safety could easily get him injured a lot worse. He could last a lot longer as a corner than as a safety, and it's not like we have anybody behind him who could take over at corner. If we're going to have to add a starting player either way, I'd rather we leave Tillman where he is and go after a safety.

[nfoligno]

For me, I can't help but think the idea of moving Tillman to FS is so "Bears".

 

For years, we needed a LT. Do we go out and get a LT? Hell no. Lets see. We have an OG in Gandy, and move him outside. We had Bernard Robertson at one point line up at LT. Hell, I would even point out John Tait was a RT who we moved to LT out of need. Point is, we needed a LT and rather than go get a LT, we continually tried to play other position players there, and it most always failed.

 

FS has been a problem position for some time. Hatley hit paydirt when he drafted Brown in the 2nd, but Angelo has simply never had success. IMHO, a key reason is because Angelo has never really just simply gone after a FS. He goes after a bunch of in-the-box strong safeties, and tries to play there at free. Or he gets some small school athletic DB who moved around in college (DM) and he fails. But who has Angelo really added that was truly a pure FS?

 

To me, the idea of moving Tillman to FS stinks of the same ol mentality. Instead of trying to fill a hole by moving this player over here or that player or there, why not just add a player for that position of need.

 

We need a FS. Lets go add a FS. I know it is a novel idea, but I have seen other NFL teams try it, and you know what, it works.

 

I disagree: better never than now. Tillman's at least a league-average corner, and while he might be an above-average safety, it wouldn't be for very long. Since we play so much zone at corner, losing a step isn't going to hamper him like it would for a man corner, but moving to safety could easily get him injured a lot worse. He could last a lot longer as a corner than as a safety, and it's not like we have anybody behind him who could take over at corner. If we're going to have to add a starting player either way, I'd rather we leave Tillman where he is and go after a safety.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

Isn't Peanut automatically better then everybody else we played at safety last year? Even if he struggles adapting to the position he's still an upgrade.

 

How can he be a good cover-corner, be the best in the league at stripping the ball, and not be able to make the move to safety? That makes zero sense to me. My only concern would be injuries.

 

i agree. i don't understand anyone saying peanut is undersized for a safety. in fact he is pro-typical. even to argue he needs more weight, to put on 5-10 lbs for someone who is 6'1" is nothing.

 

1. peanut has good to very good speed for a FS vs. average at BEST for a corner. his biggest weakness is playing man off the LOS with quicker faster corners. playing free safety eliminates that problem. he is already playing back and instead of him backpeddling 5-10 yds every snap he is in position to start with and moving forward instead of back. it should give him a lot more time to react to the qb's/wr's which in turn should increase his interceptions and his chances at stripping the ball (which he excels at) increases.

 

2. it's said he won't be able to take the physical abuse. i disagree. in the tampa/lovie cover 2 a corner plays a lot of run defense off the ends. it's in his job description and peanut does a lot of it. as a free safety this limits a lot of the rb/fb/te tackles near the LOS he normally has to make including taking on some TE, FB and even offensive linemen BLOCKS which saves a lot of wear and tear on his body. he also is usually not making the initial contact taking on these bigger players. it stands to reason tackling WR's in open space is less wear and tear on your body over your career.

 

3. instead of shortening his career, playing FS should increase his years in the league as per #2 above. he should be able to play a very productive 3-5 years at FS and do it very well. let's face it, when a player hits 30 he loses more speed every year. at FS he doesn't have nearly the problem with speed as he does at playing corner especially when peanut would be considered having very good speed for a FS at his size. look how well mike brown played FS and consider his speed vs peanuts. peanut is also a very smart player which again makes this move superb.

 

4. some say we should keep him at CB because he is our best corner. i totally disagree. why would you want a player to play a position he is average at at best rather than play one he could excel in or at the least haver real potential to be better at than where he is? it makes no sense. it would be like taking a pro-bowl caliber DE and playing him at nose tackle because he would be better than the nose tackle you currently have. you just dumbed down TWO positions instead of one!!

 

below are some FS's/safeties for comparison:

 

CHARLES TILLMAN - 61" - 198 - 29 years old

 

FS nick collins - packers - 5'11" - 207

 

FS michael griffin - titans - 6.0' 202

 

FS ed reed - ravens - 5'11" - 200

 

FS kerry rhodes - jets - 6'3" - 214

 

FS ryan clark - steelers - 5'11" - 205

 

brian dawkins - eagles - 6'0" - 210

 

rod woodson - 6'0" - 205

 

ronnie lott - 6'0" - 203

[bradjock]

For me, I can't help but think the idea of moving Tillman to FS is so "Bears".

 

To me, the idea of moving Tillman to FS stinks of the same ol mentality. Instead of trying to fill a hole by moving this player over here or that player or there, why not just add a player for that position of need.

 

We need a FS. Lets go add a FS. I know it is a novel idea, but I have seen other NFL teams try it, and you know what, it works.

 

That sounds great in theory, but who do we get? What FS is out there that would be worth the money that fits our scheme?

 

The top FS's available are Darren Sharper and likely Rolle. The thinking is that in the Bear's system, neither of these guys would be able to duplicate the success they've had.

 

You also mention drafting a guy, but players who have the ability required to play the FS spot at a high level, are likely playing cb. There simply aren't that many available coming out of college.

 

So while it sounds good to just go get a guy, it's not that easy.

[defiantgiant]

You also mention drafting a guy, but players who have the ability required to play the FS spot at a high level, are likely playing cb. There simply aren't that many available coming out of college.

That's not true. This draft is absolutely stocked with quality free safety prospects. Here's the list of guys who are being talked about as starting-caliber safeties:

 

Eric Berry (1st round)

Earl Thomas (1st)

Taylor Mays (1st-2nd)

Nate Allen (2nd)

Chad Jones (2nd)

Morgan Burnett (2nd-3rd)

 

...and then there are borderline starters like Major Wright, TJ Ward, and Larry Asante, as well as corners who could move to safety, like Chris Cook. A lot of these guys are going to get pushed down in the draft this year, on account of the number of quality safeties ahead of them. There could very easily be a starting-caliber safety available where the Bears pick at #75.

 

[bradjock]

That's not true. This draft is absolutely stocked with quality free safety prospects. Here's the list of guys who are being talked about as starting-caliber safeties:

 

Eric Berry (1st round)

Earl Thomas (1st)

Taylor Mays (1st-2nd)

Nate Allen (2nd)

Chad Jones (2nd)

Morgan Burnett (2nd-3rd)

 

...and then there are borderline starters like Major Wright, TJ Ward, and Larry Asante, as well as corners who could move to safety, like Chris Cook. A lot of these guys are going to get pushed down in the draft this year, on account of the number of quality safeties ahead of them. There could very easily be a starting-caliber safety available where the Bears pick at #75.

 

Thanks for the info! I've ignored the draft coverage because of our lack of picks. So we sign Julius Peppers solidifying the D-line and we take the best available FS in the 3rd round.

[defiantgiant]

Thanks for the info! I've ignored the draft coverage because of our lack of picks. So we sign Julius Peppers solidifying the D-line and we take the best available FS in the 3rd round.

Definitely. This draft being pretty deep in free safeties, o-line and running backs, the Bears could still come away with some quality players at need positions, even with no first and no second.

[flea]

Adam_Schefter Filed to ESPN: Cardinals will release S Antrel Rolle this week. Team still trying to keep him, but first it will release him.

[defiantgiant]

Adam_Schefter Filed to ESPN: Cardinals will release S Antrel Rolle this week. Team still trying to keep him, but first it will release him.

Yeah, it sounds like they're releasing him to get out of his contract for 2010, and then they're going to offer him a multi-year deal.

[nfoligno]

Add CB to that list, as I have read this is a good draft, both in top end and depth, for CB. Also, I have read this is a great draft for OT, but a very weak draft for OGs. Just to point out the distinction rather than simply saying OL. I had not really heard about RB.

 

FS, CB and OT are three of our top needs, and each are considered excellent in this draft. DL is also a top need, but I have not read about this draft being as great in that area as the others mentioned.

 

I still hope to see an OT drafted in the 3rd, but I like how our needs matchup well with the drafts talent.

 

Definitely. This draft being pretty deep in free safeties, o-line and running backs, the Bears could still come away with some quality players at need positions, even with no first and no second.

 

[madlithuanian]

Actaully, it goes agasint the grain to some degree.

 

Numerous folks have been screaming for it for years. From media to fans...

 

It's so bears in the sense it would have taken them this long to do it!

 

For me, I can't help but think the idea of moving Tillman to FS is so "Bears".

 

For years, we needed a LT. Do we go out and get a LT? Hell no. Lets see. We have an OG in Gandy, and move him outside. We had Bernard Robertson at one point line up at LT. Hell, I would even point out John Tait was a RT who we moved to LT out of need. Point is, we needed a LT and rather than go get a LT, we continually tried to play other position players there, and it most always failed.

 

FS has been a problem position for some time. Hatley hit paydirt when he drafted Brown in the 2nd, but Angelo has simply never had success. IMHO, a key reason is because Angelo has never really just simply gone after a FS. He goes after a bunch of in-the-box strong safeties, and tries to play there at free. Or he gets some small school athletic DB who moved around in college (DM) and he fails. But who has Angelo really added that was truly a pure FS?

 

To me, the idea of moving Tillman to FS stinks of the same ol mentality. Instead of trying to fill a hole by moving this player over here or that player or there, why not just add a player for that position of need.

 

We need a FS. Lets go add a FS. I know it is a novel idea, but I have seen other NFL teams try it, and you know what, it works.